Cross faction trials: should it count for the leaderboards?

EgoRush

ZOS are introducing cross faction grouping for trials and as it stands on posting this the scores will apply to the leaderboard.

This is not a discussion for whether cross faction should exist. It is solely in relation to whether the scores should apply to the leaderboard.

So let's vote. Should cross faction groups in trials count on the leaderboards?

Nifty2g

No, they shouldn't be included

No because it is a huge slap in the face to the top guilds currently competing, which ZOS use for feedback. This game's competition will heavily drop if this is implemented.

Ra'Shtar

Yes, they should count

Why not? Its a group of skilled people doing something and they should be rewarded for their effort and dedication, its not different from what people has been doing so far it just opens more doors because you have now a larger pool of players to choose from why does it matters if they have an eagle, lion or dragon as their symbol.

As a remainder ZoS said that on the leaderboard it will appear the actual alliance the characters are from, if someone votes no can he please explain the reason to why?

Nifty2g

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Why not? Its a group of skilled people doing something and they should be rewarded for their effort and dedication, its not different from what people has been doing so far it just opens more doors because you have now a larger pool of players to choose from why does it matters if they have an eagle, lion or dragon as their symbol.

As a remainder ZoS said that on the leaderboard it will appear the actual alliance the characters are from, if someone votes no can he please explain the reason to why?

I think I'll copy something I said before

I don't think you understand the impact this is going to have.
Guilds well more so players are going to start nitpicking the Top Players, cause a lot of internal guild arguments and then we will see a team of 12 teaming up to get the best scores. No one will bother competiting as it will ruin the competition.

I am not complaining about Alliances showing up, that doesn;t bother me or anyone at all. What is bothersome is the fact you can play with the top players from all 3 factions and ruin it. Not only is that Lore Breaking but it is also highly unwanted by all the current top guilds. And by top guilds I am referring to the players holding the top spots in http://esoleaderboards.com/

I'm completely fine with cross faction, why not? But having scores in it, why not just remove the leaderboards at that point.

Believe me, it's going to happen. To guild having #1 scores, then getting the second best, or third best offers from some of their members to help out and replace some of the lacking members.
Trust me, end game raiding for a #1 spot gets like that sometimes, as a lot of elitist attitude tends to show out. It is a video game after all, no one is going to be a good sport.

EgoRush

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Why not? Its a group of skilled people doing something and they should be rewarded for their effort and dedication, its not different from what people has been doing so far it just opens more doors because you have now a larger pool of players to choose from why does it matters if they have an eagle, lion or dragon as their symbol.

As a remainder ZoS said that on the leaderboard it will appear the actual alliance the characters are from, if someone votes no can he please explain the reason to why?

You'll still get gear, XP, achievements. But as Nifty says, it's a huge slap in the face for those that have had loyal guilds competing in this content for so long. It's potentially going to destroy raid groups now as they aren't restricted to Guild X in Alliance Y. People will reapply to join the best.

Ra'Shtar

Yes, they should count

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

DisgracefulMind

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Nifty2g

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

Odd, I'm currently in NA #1 guild(s)
We're the ones speaking up, but it seems we're in the minority as most 1%ers will be, but soon enough if this happens, you'll see the backlash

AFrostWolf

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Why not? Its a group of skilled people doing something and they should be rewarded for their effort and dedication, its not different from what people has been doing so far it just opens more doors because you have now a larger pool of players to choose from why does it matters if they have an eagle, lion or dragon as their symbol.

As a remainder ZoS said that on the leaderboard it will appear the actual alliance the characters are from, if someone votes no can he please explain the reason to why?

Because Loyalty.

Darlon

Yes, they should count

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Guilds are multi alliance already as it is... Any guilds that aren't are doing so by choice... So I don't buy that argument...

Ra'Shtar

Yes, they should count

Ledearboards are not a guild feature or they would be restricted in that aspect, nothing stops the best 12 players of each alliance to group together an top the leaderboards currently on live, this seems more paranoia than anything you can't stop progress and this is a step in the right direction there are many many people who are in cross faction guilds dedicated to PvE and this will help them, right now you only care about the guild you are on and that is a bit selfish.

DschiPeunt

Yes, they should count

Hmm I am not really sure about this. I tend to say, that it should count, simply because rolling a character in a different alliance would open the same door. And there are mostly not more than 2 top guilds per faction. So there might be some really good players, that get left behind, because there is no spot in a group in their faction. Those people could now run with groups in other factions.

tengri

Yes, they should count

Why is this even a question?
"Faction loyalty"? For PvE? I mean seriously?

DisgracefulMind

No, they shouldn't be included

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Guilds are multi alliance already as it is... Any guilds that aren't are doing so by choice... So I don't buy that argument...

As Nifty has said, the potential disaster for raid guilds, and I'm not referring to your typical casual/social or trade guild, is that the top guilds will start exclusively picking players to makes this "almighty" raid team. So, yes, alliance loyalty for trial leaderboards is a good thing because it has prevented that exact issue all this time. The top raiding guilds that have stayed dedicated to trials and endgame pve have been the ones providing ZoS with feedback, helping improve PvE content for you all, and have consistently supported the game along with pushing for new raids. And in return this change is being implemented that will, most likely, hurt our guilds immensely. Yes, our guilds are loyal to our factions, because we've developed that innate loyalty through these leaderboards, through our achievements together as a team.

DisgracefulMind

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Ledearboards are not a guild feature or they would be restricted in that aspect, nothing stops the best 12 players of each alliance to group together an top the leaderboards currently on live, this seems more paranoia than anything you can't stop progress and this is a step in the right direction there are many many people who are in cross faction guilds dedicated to PvE and this will help them, right now you only care about the guild you are on and that is a bit selfish.

What is the point of a guild then if one is to not care about it?

Ra'Shtar

Yes, they should count

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Guilds are multi alliance already as it is... Any guilds that aren't are doing so by choice... So I don't buy that argument...

The top raiding guilds that have stayed dedicated to trials and endgame pve have been the ones providing ZoS with feedback, helping improve PvE content for you all

Well they have not been doing a good job then, because everything in live is a DPS race meaning that mechanics can be easily avoided by high dps.

DisgracefulMind

No, they shouldn't be included

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Guilds are multi alliance already as it is... Any guilds that aren't are doing so by choice... So I don't buy that argument...

The top raiding guilds that have stayed dedicated to trials and endgame pve have been the ones providing ZoS with feedback, helping improve PvE content for you all

Well they have not been doing a good job then, because everything in live is a DPS race meaning that mechanics can be easily avoided by high dps.

You are ignorant then because that is something that we have pushed towards ZoS and is shown in the new trial is to not allow the stack and burn DPS race methods to reign supreme in trials. If you're been in Maw of Lorkhaj you will see that there are specific mechanics that make stacking and burning almost impossible, and we all agree that this is a wonderful change and something that is wanted by almost all players in ESO.

DschiPeunt

Yes, they should count

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Basically you are afraid people who are better than you will prove it?

That is not what they're saying at all. The concern is that this is going to kill our guilds.

Guilds are multi alliance already as it is... Any guilds that aren't are doing so by choice... So I don't buy that argument...

The top raiding guilds that have stayed dedicated to trials and endgame pve have been the ones providing ZoS with feedback, helping improve PvE content for you all

Well they have not been doing a good job then, because everything in live is a DPS race meaning that mechanics can be easily avoided by high dps.

All top guilds agreed, that we don't want this kind of mechanic anymore. We are not doing it, because it is fun, but because it provides the best score, and that score is what we are competing over. Looking at the new trial, ZOS took our feedback into consideration and now you just can't avoid stuff by simply nuking the boss.

Ra'Shtar

Yes, they should count

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Ledearboards are not a guild feature or they would be restricted in that aspect, nothing stops the best 12 players of each alliance to group together an top the leaderboards currently on live, this seems more paranoia than anything you can't stop progress and this is a step in the right direction there are many many people who are in cross faction guilds dedicated to PvE and this will help them, right now you only care about the guild you are on and that is a bit selfish.

What is the point of a guild then if one is to not care about it?

There are 10 maybe 20 top guilds, there are hundreds of guilds who are not top yet they end in the leaderboards because there is not enough top guilds dedicated solely to endgame and the leaderboards have to be filled.

PS: i'm talking about live.

Lithium Flower

Yes, they should count

Why should faction matter for PvE? Individuals and guilds are what the competition on the leaderboards has always been about.

If anything this should allow the best players to shop around for the best guilds and vice versa. That should increase competition and enrich the community.

It's going to be a Free Market. That should be a good thing.

Schemering

Yes, they should count

I dont have any problems with crossalliance leaderboards but im only in raids for fun and on leaderboards for weekly rewards so if majority of top raid guilds dont like it its also fine for me if it will not be possible.

SienneYviete

Yes, they should count

Bit of a double edged sword this one. On one hand it's great now that I can use my previously unused opposing factions toons to complete content I would have never been able to with the present group finder setup. On the other hand I can see where this may present an issue for top raiding guilds however I think most of the dedicated top raiding guilds are pretty much already set with their core members and have been for quite some time and will hopefully stay loyal to their core rather than bringing in ringers from other factions just for scores.

Time will tell whether this change is a good one, i'm hoping it is and tbh for me and a lot of other players it will be but I can fully understand why raiding guilds would be cautious of this change.

DisgracefulMind

No, they shouldn't be included

SienneYviete wrote: »

Bit of a double edged sword this one. On one hand it's great now that I can use my previously unused opposing factions toons to complete content I would have never been able to with the present group finder setup. On the other hand I can see where this may present an issue for top raiding guilds however I think most of the dedicated top raiding guilds are pretty much already set with their core members and have been for quite some time and will hopefully stay loyal to their core rather than bringing in ringers from other factions just for scores.

Time will tell whether this change is a good one, i'm hoping it is and tbh for me and a lot of other players it will be but I can fully understand why raiding guilds would be cautious of this change.

Cross-faction trial grouping is GREAT. Not cross-faction leaderboard competition.

Daveheart

No, they shouldn't be included

In addition to the inter/intra-guild drama I see this causing (not for all guilds maybe, but for some this'll be a pain point), it'll also cause some major clogging of the leaderboards. If say Nifty and I both have 8 max toons, but some of his are on another faction, we can still farm the leaderboard spots together. For all the bitching that happened when the vDSA weeklies were monopolized by far fewer than 100 actual accounts, it'll now be even easier for us to do that sort of thing.

Ra'Shtar

Yes, they should count

Daveheart wrote: »

In addition to the inter/intra-guild drama I see this causing (not for all guilds maybe, but for some this'll be a pain point), it'll also cause some major clogging of the leaderboards. If say Nifty and I both have 8 max toons, but some of his are on another faction, we can still farm the leaderboard spots together. For all the bitching that happened when the vDSA weeklies were monopolized by far fewer than 100 actual accounts, it'll now be even easier for us to do that sort of thing.

I now start to see the point, perhaps i should stop trying to see things trough the eyes of other people and just see it for myself.

Kippesnikke

No, they shouldn't be included

No. i love the competition in ESO through the 3 different factions. I would be dissapointed to see that go away.
I understand that alot of people have friends on different factions and want to play together. no problem with that.
but it has to be excluded from the leaderboards.

Nifty2g

No, they shouldn't be included

Daveheart wrote: »

In addition to the inter/intra-guild drama I see this causing (not for all guilds maybe, but for some this'll be a pain point), it'll also cause some major clogging of the leaderboards. If say Nifty and I both have 8 max toons, but some of his are on another faction, we can still farm the leaderboard spots together. For all the bitching that happened when the vDSA weeklies were monopolized by far fewer than 100 actual accounts, it'll now be even easier for us to do that sort of thing.

I once put all 8 of my characters on the VDSA leaderboards in the top 10 spots and made 3 million gold.
I met @Suru that day

PriorityBalle

I have no opinion on this matter but thought i'd write here anyway.

DisgracefulMind

No, they shouldn't be included

Daveheart wrote: »

In addition to the inter/intra-guild drama I see this causing (not for all guilds maybe, but for some this'll be a pain point), it'll also cause some major clogging of the leaderboards. If say Nifty and I both have 8 max toons, but some of his are on another faction, we can still farm the leaderboard spots together. For all the bitching that happened when the vDSA weeklies were monopolized by far fewer than 100 actual accounts, it'll now be even easier for us to do that sort of thing.

This, exactly. This is another HUGE problem that will come out of cross-faction leaderboards. Imagine the top three-raiding guild in NA, now imagine our combined 60+ members and all of our alts we have (I know for Mundus we almost all have 2+ vr16s), now imagine if we decided to farm those leaderboards on those alts combined with members of the other top raiding guilds from the other factions with all their alts. Now we have an almost full leaderboard, and the new loot that everyone wants will come from these weeklies, so that means that top raiding guilds are going to want that loot ASAP.

This is NOT a good thing at all.

Nifty2g

No, they shouldn't be included

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

In addition to the inter/intra-guild drama I see this causing (not for all guilds maybe, but for some this'll be a pain point), it'll also cause some major clogging of the leaderboards. If say Nifty and I both have 8 max toons, but some of his are on another faction, we can still farm the leaderboard spots together. For all the bitching that happened when the vDSA weeklies were monopolized by far fewer than 100 actual accounts, it'll now be even easier for us to do that sort of thing.

This, exactly. This is another HUGE problem that will come out of cross-faction leaderboards. Imagine the top three-raiding guild in NA, now imagine our combined 60+ members and all of our alts we have (I know for Mundus we almost all have 2+ vr16s), now imagine if we decided to farm those leaderboards on those alts combined with members of the other top raiding guilds from the other factions with all their alts. Now we have an almost full leaderboard, and the new loot that everyone wants will come from these weeklies, so that means that top raiding guilds are going to want that loot ASAP.

This is NOT a good thing at all.

Can't @ZOS_GinaBruno and the rest of the @ZOS see what we're actually doing? Trying to help fix the game up.

EgoRush

No, they shouldn't be included

You know, I'm kinda starting to come around to the idea. It would be nice for AD and DC to team up and create a team that could maybe give us a challenge on the leaderboards