Official Feedback Thread for Maw of Lorkhaj

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2016

This is the official feedback thread for the new Trial, Maw of Lorkhaj. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes:

How difficult did you find Normal mode?
How difficult did you find Veteran mode?
How did the difficulty feel compared to previous Trials?
Did you run into any difficulties during the Trial? If so, where or with who?
Were there any bosses or events that you particularly liked or disliked?
Did you complete the Trial? If so, was it on Normal or Veteran mode?
Were you pleased with the items you received?
Have you previously played through any Trials, or is this your first experience?
As this is the first time a Trial is scaling to the group leader, how did the scaling feel in both Normal and Veteran modes?
Were you able to easily find the Trial so you could enter?
Do you have any other general feedback?

asneakybanana · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the new Trial, Maw of Lorkhaj. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes:
How difficult did you find Normal mode?

How difficult did you find Veteran mode?

How did the difficulty feel compared to previous Trials?

Did you run into any difficulties during the Trial? If so, where or with who?

Were there any bosses or events that you particularly liked or disliked?

Did you complete the Trial? If so, was it on Normal or Veteran mode?

Were you pleased with the items you received?

Have you previously played through any Trials, or is this your first experience?

As this is the first time a Trial is scaling to the group leader, how did the scaling feel in both Normal and Veteran modes?

Were you able to easily find the Trial so you could enter?

Do you have any other general feedback?

*normal mode felt just about perfect to me. As a hardcore player we were able to get most the bosses down in just a couple attempts but I could see less serious players struggling with portions of it, especially the trash.
*maybe a tiny bit under scaled. Only saw the first boss tonight but am already close to getting him down in just a couple hours of practice and with the fight being so long that's only probably 20 attempts tops. If the next bosses are truly that much harder then I take it back but from what I've seen with both normal and the first boss in vet I can't imagine them having a huge difference.
*difficulty felt a tiny bit easier than sanctum when it was on pts but much harder than any content currently available including maelstrom.
*crashing but that could be the entire pts not just trials.
*last boss on normal seemed a bit dull so hopefully vet will have more mechanics.
*completed on normal
*loot is good. excited to starting playing around with these new synergy sets.
*have played through all trials hundreds of times
* didn't scale, ean at v16
*yes
*so happy to finally see new content and decent content at that after 18 months of nothing. Thank you ZoS.

Fecius · February 2016

I will definitely test MoL trial with my raid team both in normal and veteran and I’ll provide some feedback after.

Never the less, even now I have what to say about it as a general feedback.

I had a chance to look throw achievements on PTS. Combined with some information about loot in new trial, not answering my direct questions about it and our previous experience in Sanctum Ophidia it appears to me that there is no special loot or reward for killing last boss in Veteran Mode with Hard Mode "ON" (Maw of Lorhaj Difficult Mode). Yeah, there is an achievement to do and that's it. Ofc, you may say that you will get a weekly score much better in HM, but all PvEers of my guild sure that it's not enough.

Suggestion:

I understand that you don't want to put into a loot table any stronger items than anyone can get even without DLS (for weekly for example).

And getting the gold jewelry from the new trial will be almost impossible. You need to pass weekly, then once a week you have a tiny chance to get jewelry among all types of weapons, armors and its traits. It's about taking 1 item out of 60 with all different traits once a week. It's a pure luck to get that jewelry you want and if you got not enough points in “L” of your S.P.E.C.I.A.L., then you will never get any.

I can suggest you a decision that will not break your rules of giving a loot that anyone can obtain but still will feel rewarding for Hardcore players who wants to kill repetitively the last boss in Veteran Mode with Hard Mode "ON" (Maw of Lorhaj Difficult Mode):

Simply make a guaranteed Gold jewelry as loot for this encounter.

Another way to make a worthy reward for this is to add a cool Mount drop for this mode with low chance for one of the players.

I swear lots of players will try to pass it over and over again for a cool mount or a guaranteed Gold Jewelry. Only a scoreboost is far not enough.

Full MoL achievements list:

LuluKreicer · February 2016

Fecius wrote: »

I will definitely test MoL trial with my raid team both in normal and veteran and I’ll provide some feedback after.

Never the less, even now I have what to say about it as a general feedback.

I had a chance to look throw achievements on PTS. Combined with some information about loot in new trial, not answering my direct questions about it and our previous experience in Sanctum Ophidia it appears to me that there is no special loot or reward for killing last boss in Veteran Mode with Hard Mode "ON" (Maw of Lorhaj Difficult Mode). Yeah, there is an achievement to do and that's it. Ofc, you may say that you will get a weekly score much better in HM, but all PvEers of my guild sure that it's not enough.

Suggestion:

I understand that you don't want to put into a loot table any stronger items than anyone can get even without DLS (for weekly for example).

And getting the gold jewelry from the new trial will be almost impossible. You need to pass weekly, then once a week you have a tiny chance to get jewelry among all types of weapons, armors and its traits. It's about taking 1 item out of 60 with all different traits once a week. It's a pure luck to get that jewelry you want and if you got not enough points in “L” of your S.P.E.C.I.A.L., then you will never get any.

I can suggest you a decision that will not break your rules of giving a loot that anyone can obtain but still will feel rewarding for Hardcore players who wants to kill repetitively the last boss in Veteran Mode with Hard Mode "ON" (Maw of Lorhaj Difficult Mode):

Simply make a guaranteed Gold jewelry as loot for this encounter.

Another way to make a worthy reward for this is to add a cool Mount drop for this mode with low chance for one of the players.

I swear lots of players will try to pass it over and over again for a cool mount or a guaranteed Gold Jewelry. Only a scoreboost is far not enough.

Its good idea bcs all another trials, even when they were relevant, born the question "why" but no "how". All players want reason to do it. Sets? Mb, but we no need do veteran HM for it. So "why" we need do this mode of trial?

Cinbri · February 2016

Anyone who completed it: does new skin drop only for vr mode or can drop from normal too?

Fecius · February 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

Anyone who completed it: does new skin drop only for vr mode or can drop from normal too?

It's a reward for Vet Mode achievement as you can see in screenshots.

JLN · February 2016

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Katinas · February 2016

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Fecius · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Missing an IMG.

3 ppl clear... I need this LOL button!

Katinas · February 2016

I did link the picture: http://s30.postimg.org/3uj2lmfe7/Screenshot_20160204_142410.png

Wizzo91 · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Seriously? Then the difficulty has to be increased dramatically. Even if we assume these 3 players are the best there are, even mediocre or bad groups would be able to finish it without problems with a full group. This should not be the case for a trial, even on normal difficulty.

Enodoc · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Sooo..... too easy?

How many CPs do you all have?

@ZOS_Finn I assume that Normal MoL is still ostensibly designed for 12 players, rather than 4?

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Could you list (or PM) the names of the characters that were you in your group? Just want to take a peek at your stats. Thanks!

Cinbri · February 2016

Show screen with armor dyed with new color

Katinas · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Could you list (or PM) the names of the characters that were you in your group? Just want to take a peek at your stats. Thanks!

I'll do that in a moment!

agro2014 · February 2016

New sets in Normal mode drops up to VR16?

Cîanai · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

What level?

Woeler · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

I did link the picture: http://s30.postimg.org/3uj2lmfe7/Screenshot_20160204_142410.png

Hard to believe that was on V16

silentgecko · February 2016

we cleared the first boss with 7 ppl on normal v16.
but we hadn't enoguh time to continue...

so my thoughts was:
jeah...scale the normal mode up, because with full raid it could be to easy

Katinas · February 2016

This was not a vet16, this was a scaled down normal version. We are now on a vet16 normal with full 12 person group.

Fecius · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

This was not a vet16, this was a scaled down normal version. We are now on a vet16 normal with full 12 person group.

Oh, thx ZOS! I hope it's absolutely impossible to pass even a Normal with 3 ppl only.

ZOS_Finn · February 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Katinas wrote: »

Normal Maf of Lorkhaj cleared. With 3 people...

Sooo..... too easy? How many CPs do you all have?

@ZOS_Finn I assume that Normal MoL is still ostensibly designed for 12 players, rather than 4?

Normal is designed for 12 players and from what we were seeing so far, the target audience seemed to have a good time with it and it was a fun challenge. Once we get a larger set of tests we will take a look at adjusting the difficulty to match the desired level.

@JLN , you beat the first boss on Veteran... do you have a stream or video of the fight? What was your killtime?

Woeler · February 2016

@ZOS_Finn I'll be streaming tonight 19:00 CEST twitch.tv/woeler

Fecius · February 2016

@ZOS_Finn

Have a plan to stream tonight in about 3 hours as twitch.tv/fecius.

Normal run 1st and then some Vet attempts after.

Cinbri · February 2016

Also, please, if someone will complete VR Trial - check if it possible to wear new skin and costume simultaneously.

Enodoc · February 2016

Katinas wrote: »

This was not a vet16, this was a scaled down normal version. We are now on a vet16 normal with full 12 person group.

@Katinas So you were playing a scaled down version at VR16 with a lower group leader? That might explain how you rolled over it with 3 chars

omfgitsbatman · February 2016

We did complete normal V16 with about 7-10 people bouncing in and out. We never had a full group. But it is a very good group. The difficulty seems right for normal. I had fun.

We tried vet later and had a blast wiping on the first boss. We got him to 21% last night and we'll down him tonight. I can say I haven't had this much fun in eso in a very long time. The difficulty on vet is going to destroy groups that don't take it seriously.

Addihul · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[1] How difficult did you find Normal mode? [2] How difficult did you find Veteran mode? [3] How did the difficulty feel compared to previous Trials? [4] Did you run into any difficulties during the Trial? If so, where or with who? [5] Were there any bosses or events that you particularly liked or disliked? [6] Did you complete the Trial? If so, was it on Normal or Veteran mode? [7] Were you pleased with the items you received? [8] Have you previously played through any Trials, or is this your first experience? [9] As this is the first time a Trial is scaling to the group leader, how did the scaling feel in both Normal and Veteran modes? [10] Were you able to easily find the Trial so you could enter? [11] Do you have any other general feedback?

1. Right on the money here. We ran a cross guild raid last night on the NA/DC side and spent most of our time figuring out which mobs to target, what bosses did what, when to do such and such. We looked like a bunch of scrubs out there, getting wrecked here and there due to unknown mechanics. However once we figured out what to do it was manageable. Learning how to prioritize the trash is going to be interesting. I forsee PUGs having a tough time with normal at this point still. Remains to be seen.
2. We are doing vet tonight.. more info to come
3. The difficulty level was definitely ramped up due to the fact there is really no stack n' spank. Great job by the devs here. The new trial makes parsing a thing of the past. It's now all about who can move where and attack 'x' while others focus elsewhere. I say the difficulty has been significantly raised. With what I heard from the ZOS dungeon crew last night, vet mode will introduce even more punishing mechanics. VMA on steroids.
4. The second boss took awhile to figure out. However good collaboration brought that piece together fairly quickly. I imagine PUGs having extreme difficulty with this one due to the level of coordination involved in getting people to follow the rules of engagement. Again, vet level will of course be even more punishing.
5. The final boss is a cluster (beep) right now. We were able to basically PUG kill the boss while ignoring most of its mechanics. I still have no idea what the 4 circles in each corner are for. We basically rez killed the boss through whatever it dished out. The first and second bosses were way more unforgiving. I LOVE the second boss encounter. The mechanics are brilliant and I would run that boss over and over again just cuz it kicked so much butt.
6. Completed on normal only. Vet is tonight
7. Yes. I'd farm the normal mode for perfect worm cult and the like just to have them on hand. Not sure how it will fit in to practicality from a raid perspective because there are currently better raid sets out there. However, the new vet gear looks really amazing and I can see its practicality shine in certain situations. Remains to be seen here. I did notice however I did NOT get drops on every chest. I actually got zero. Yes, absolutely zero. I have not one piece of gear from last nights raid. Z E R O. that was a bit strange. Even the final boss dropped nothing for me if I recall. Lastly..THANK YOU for listening to the raiding community by adding the new trial gear as possible drops in the old trial weeklies. Just the possibility of getting something good makes the old trials relevant. Brilliant move here by ZOS.
8. Hundreds of completes on all 3 previous trials
9. Not sure, we were on v16. I imagine those just wanting a complete will run it scaled.. but honestly I see scaling DOWN as a poor implementation for trials. People run trials for gear (among other things). Getting their favorite set at v10 or v8 is epic sadness. The only benefit here besides getting a clear, is training or practicing mechanics. Not sure if that was intended or not by the devs. If so, we could apparently scale it down to V1 and run through vet just to learn the mechanics? Not sure on this one but I suppose I can see the benefit.
10. Yea no problems. Good call making it in Reapers. This is a huge improvement from Wrothgar due to the fact that you had to start in Wrothgar and make your way a couple miles to the NE to even get IN to VMA. This allows you to just hop right in.
11. Yes. The trash was just.... out of place? I lost the synergy feeling I get from the other trash on the other trials. Like.. it all fits together. Instead of a smooth 'get through' like in the other trials, we spent so much time on the trash that it felt like a purposeful derailer to the momentum. Not that we're trying to clear this in 10 minutes, but I got frustrated and bored even battling wave after wave of what just felt like a detractor. 2m HP cats that look like 30k cats from The Rift threw me off. They got ignored. Even with proper strategy, it just feels like an unfun blockade to my joy meter. Will of course give this another ponder as we get better and better at it.

Lastly, this is a great trial. Your modeling and art team did an amazing job with the entire DLC. We're talking world class stuff here guys. The boss fights are mega fun thus far (apart from the 3rd bosses complete cluster bomb.. but mostly our fault). I'd like to get a closer look at the RP components of this trial as well. I'm sure that was very carefully crafted.

We are streaming 1 normal and repeated Vet attempts tonight at 9:30PM EST (PC/NA) with The Order of Mundus. Will see you there.

Katinas · February 2016

Normal vet16 cleared.

omfgitsbatman · February 2016

On the first boss on vet, there were quite a few instances where people were behind the pillars and still died during the AoE blast. I think it might just be an issue of time, because they got there just a second or 2 before he did the blast, but they were still there in time for the blast. I don't know when it decides whether or not you are behind the pillars, but it seems a bit off to me.

Xantaria · February 2016

Hodor Streaming on right now:

www.twitch.tv/mashinatee
www.twitch.tv/paolen
www.twitch.tv/zantaria