Encase and its morphs are not working as intended.

Dracane

This is something that I've recognized a long time ago.
The tooltip of Encase says, it has a range of 18 meters and 6 meters width. The animation of Encase properly shows 6 meters width. But the actual root effect only has a width of 1 meter, 2 meters max. I have to face my target directly in order for encase to work.


I choosed this innocent goat to be my test subject, because passive animals just run around and don't attack me and destroy my results. I'm trying to show, that the actual animation radius is not the real area of effect for Encase. It doesn't really have an area of effect. It ony works, if the target is right in front of me, making it really hard to aim with it and a good reason, for why Talons are so much more popular. Talons are more reliable, while Encase is not reliable thanks to the non existing area of effect. (the range is correct, but not the width)

If this gets fixed, I can see Encase to become more popular. Because 6 meters is quite reliable if it was true

Xeven

Nice work Dracane. Encase has always been really fickle. Thanks for taking the time to bring attention to it and illustrate the issue.

Dracane

Xeven wrote: »

Nice work Dracane. Encase has always been really fickle. Thanks for taking the time to bring attention to it and illustrate the issue.

You're welcome. Well that's the problem with unpopular abilities their issues will never get discovered.

The reason why I did this actually, was because for some reason, the width of Encase is 6 meters (tooltip) since today. It was 3 meters until today. The animation was always 6 meters and even the 3 meter width was not true, I tested Encase on the live server yesterday and it does not have 3 meters width

I was curious, if they fixed it now. But the width is still 1 meter or so.

olsborg

Good job finding this, heres to hoping ZOS gives a f.... and fixes this before 1.7 goes live. Btw, 1.7 wont be ready for 31 of august, hope they push it atleast 1 or 2 weeks to polish and fix broken stuff.

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

Good job finding this, heres to hoping ZOS gives a f.... and fixes this before 1.7 goes live. Btw, 1.7 wont be ready for 31 of august, hope they push it atleast 1 or 2 weeks to polish and fix broken stuff.

Did they say, it won't be ready ? Or do you say this, because there are still too many things to do ? (which I agree on)

It's safe to say, that the first 2-3 weeks after it goes live will be just as important as the pts weeks. Because so many people are going to play it. New bugs will be discovered, new qq, new suggestions and what not.
I think, pts is quite unimportant compared to what the first live weeks are going to bring us.

olsborg

Dracane wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Good job finding this, heres to hoping ZOS gives a f.... and fixes this before 1.7 goes live. Btw, 1.7 wont be ready for 31 of august, hope they push it atleast 1 or 2 weeks to polish and fix broken stuff.

Did they say, it won't be ready ? Or do you say this, because there are still too many things to do ? (which I agree on)

It's safe to say, that the first 2-3 weeks after it goes live will be just as important as the pts weeks. Because so many people are going to play it. New bugs will be discovered, new qq, new suggestions and what not.
I think, pts is quite unimportant compared to what the first live weeks are going to bring us.

Afaik they still plan to release it for NA on the 31 of august, wich would be a mistake given how many things are still bugged and unbalanced on pts.

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Good job finding this, heres to hoping ZOS gives a f.... and fixes this before 1.7 goes live. Btw, 1.7 wont be ready for 31 of august, hope they push it atleast 1 or 2 weeks to polish and fix broken stuff.

Did they say, it won't be ready ? Or do you say this, because there are still too many things to do ? (which I agree on)

It's safe to say, that the first 2-3 weeks after it goes live will be just as important as the pts weeks. Because so many people are going to play it. New bugs will be discovered, new qq, new suggestions and what not.
I think, pts is quite unimportant compared to what the first live weeks are going to bring us.

Afaik they still plan to release it for NA on the 31 of august, wich would be a mistake given how many things are still bugged and unbalanced on pts.

They will not cancel this date though. They will bring it online, no matter what let's hope there won't be any ragequits. As I said, pts will be like holidays to Zenimax. As soon as it goes live, the real work begins. There will be plenty complains, bugreports and so on.

Gina and Co. should demand more money to compensate for the coming work on the forums

Dracane

It was all planned out. Dracane member of a satanic cult confirmed

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks @Dracane, we'll take a look!

WebBull

Dracane wrote: »

It was all planned out. Dracane member of a satanic cult confirmed

And she sacrificed a goat!

Dracane

WebBull wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It was all planned out. Dracane member of a satanic cult confirmed

And she sacrificed a goat!

You are right.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks @Dracane, we'll take a look!

Thank you Gina. Much appreciated

angelyn

Thanks @Dracane ...There was me thinking "wait...let me just get a little closer...and if you could be so kind to face me and put your nose next to mine so I can use this skill on you"..I always thought I must be doing something wrong. . (Probably true!)

# nosing mobs

Dracane

angelyn wrote: »

Thanks @Dracane ...There was me thinking "wait...let me just get a little closer...and if you could be so kind to face me and put your nose next to mine so I can use this skill on you"..I always thought I must be doing something wrong. . (Probably true!)

# nosing mobs

No, you're doing everything right I'm sure
I always knew, that Encase is bugged somehow. The area of effect is nothing but an animation, but has nothing to do with the actiual effect.

I never really bothered talking about it. Nobody uses it and I didn't use it either. I started being interested in this recently and now I'm pretty sure, that it's flawed. I think this spell is expensive enough to make it reliable at least and to let it do, what the tooltip and the animation shows me.

Dracane

@ZOS_GinaBruno Another thing maybe could we change the tooltip of Restraining Prison (morph) to clarify it a bit ? Because the tolltip makes people think, the target remains really slowed for 6 seconds. But the snare has 3 stages

For the first 2 seconds, it is really snared. Then medium snared for 2 seconds and lastly barely snared for 2 seconds.
It regains its speed over 6 seconds and is not fully snared. The german tooltip of this ability correctly shows this.

Maybe it should say 'The target remains slowed after this effect ends and regains its movement speed over 6.6 seconds' or so. Some people asked me, if this abililty is bugged, because the target becomes faster and faster within 6.6 seconds

And shouldn't Encase be affected by the Range passive from the assault tree in pvp ? It's 18 meters range now, that's more than 15. I think it should get the 5 meters range from Range II as it is a ranged ability in my book.

Rune_Relic

Might be an idea to test NB path too at some point.
I will have a look when I ever unlock it.
Nice work.

Dracane

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Might be an idea to test NB path too at some point.
I will have a look when I ever unlock it.
Nice work.

I'm going to test blessing of protection and morphs as well

Dracane

Okay, so Combat prayer is working as intended. It really heals targets who are touched by the area of effect visual.
Path of Darkness is working either. I tested this refreshing healing path.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

Dracane

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

Derra

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

On top of that shattering prison still does no dmg at all if you roll out of it...
I´ve always wondered if this was intentional or just an oversight since nobody used that skill anyways.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

Even if it was a small circle I would like it better. The current area is 18x6 meters. That's 108 Square meters. Solving for diameter gives a circle with a diameter of 11.7 meters. It will appear smaller because a circle is a more efficient use of space. Give it whatever range spear shard has and we are golden.

Dracane

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

On top of that shattering prison still does no dmg at all if you roll out of it...
I´ve always wondered if this was intentional or just an oversight since nobody used that skill anyways.

Really ? I always was convinced it works if targets roll out of it. If not, then it's a bug. But omg who cares for this damage it's not worth it anyway. I was rather confused, by Talons deals so much more damage than shattering prison.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

Even if it was a small circle I would like it better. The current area is 18x6 meters. That's 108 Square meters. Solving for diameter gives a circle with a diameter of 11.7 meters. It will appear smaller because a circle is a more efficient use of space. Give it whatever range spear shard has and we are golden.

And 18x6 is not even true ^^ it's rather 18x1
I think, a circle would be interesting. The radius should be the same as the 6 meter lightning splash morph. (Lightning flood)
Making it a circle would give it a unique feeling. No matter what, it should at least get fixed.

-Make the Area of effect animation the true area of effect
-Adjust the tooltip of Restraining prison to clarify, that it is no a full snare and that the target regains its movement speed over 6 seconds
-Allow encase to be affected by the 'Range' passive in pvp. It has a range of over 18 meters, is a ranged attack and should gain the 5 additional meters from this passive.

olsborg

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

Shattering prison has really, really low dmg and last I checked (long time ago) the dmg can be fully negated if you dodgeroll out of it before the duration is up.

if @ZOS_GinaBruno would be so kind and forward this to the combat team, that would be great.

Dracane

olsborg wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

How bout we just change this ability to a ground effect (AoE circle like templar blazing spear) and call it a day?

The rectangle has always been clunky. It also doesnt really start at your feet, if I go in with crit rush then hit encase, then effect often misses my target.

Get rid of the clunky rectangle. At least change one morph to an AOE circle ground effect.

It's really clunky indeed. If the AoE circle was big, it would be really interesting.
Shattering prison for example is useless. It deals way less damage than Talons.
Talons deals more damage on activation and damage over time. Shattering prison can gladly be replaced/adjusted

Shattering prison has really, really low dmg and last I checked (long time ago) the dmg can be fully negated if you dodgeroll out of it before the duration is up.

if @ZOS_GinaBruno would be so kind and forward this to the combat team, that would be great.

Be honest, you wouldn't even use it IF the damage was not dodgeable

Septimus_Magna

Good work Dracane, maybe this skill will be more useful once its fixed!

ADarklore

I use Restraining Prison all the time, it's my 'mob control' for me to drop Liquid Lightning and spam Elemental Ring a couple times. I always wondered, based upon the tool tip, why the closer I get to the mobs, the smaller AoE Encase/Restraining Prison got- the AoE should be the exact same size regardless of whether you are close or farther from your targets... it says effects those "in front" but in reality it seems effected by proximity to your targets, not whether they are simply 'in front' of you.

Dracane

ADarklore wrote: »

I use Restraining Prison all the time, it's my 'mob control' for me to drop Liquid Lightning and spam Elemental Ring a couple times. I always wondered, based upon the tool tip, why the closer I get to the mobs, the smaller AoE Encase/Restraining Prison got- the AoE should be the exact same size regardless of whether you are close or farther from your targets... it says effects those "in front" but in reality it seems effected by proximity to your targets, not whether they are simply 'in front' of you.

I feel like you have to focus on an enemy in order for Encase to work. While other area of effect abilities in the game such as Talons, blessing of protection ect etc don't have this requirement.

Also a new thing that they've added, is that Encase will now be cast in the direction you're looking with your camera, not in the direction your character is looking. We'll have to see, If this will be a benefit or disadvantage. When bolt escape used to work this way, I blinked in the wrong directions most of the time. Encase should just apply the root to an enemy as long as he is in the area of effect, even if I don't target him directly. Everything else is considered as 'not working as intended' in my opinion

ADarklore

Dracane wrote: »

Also a new thing that they've added, is that Encase will now be cast in the direction you're looking with your camera, not in the direction your character is looking.

Typically if I'm using Encase, my camera is facing the enemies in front of me anyway. I agree about 'having to target' an enemy, which isn't how this ability should be working- it should be an AoE on ALL enemies 'in front of you'- but apparently how it works now. Seems to me, how it works now, if your reticle is looking at an enemy that is behind others, it will not target enemies in front of you, but will target enemies equal or behind your target's location- which again- isn't how it should be working.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Thank you for having them look into this, it is much appreciated.

eventide03b14a_ESO

It has the potential to be a great CC but it's often unreliable and I find I have to cast it multiple times just to get the targets rooted.

Dracane

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

It has the potential to be a great CC but it's often unreliable and I find I have to cast it multiple times just to get the targets rooted.

Exactly. It misses a lot.
Encase is meant to keep enemies away, that's why they decided to go with this Area of effect cone. But this is a big disadvantage for an ability such as encase. This works fine for heals such as blessing of protection, but it's very bad for a CC . It will remain quite hard to use, even if they manage to fix it. But then it at least works as intended

Talons are much easier to use, you don't even have to aim. You can use it and it is very reliable, provided your enemy is in range and a 6 meter circle is pretty good in pvp. You just charge and can push the button Talons fullfills another role than Encase, but it's inevitable to compare both with each other. There is a reason why Talons are so popular and Encase basically never used.

ADarklore

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

It has the potential to be a great CC but it's often unreliable and I find I have to cast it multiple times just to get the targets rooted.

I've never had this problem except when I encounter CC immune enemies or those who are 'flying' above the ground. Other than that, it works great against general mobs and is my primary go-to mob control ability.

Strange to hear how it doesn't work for people but it works perfectly fine for me- other than occasionally missing a target for the reasons mentioned previously- and I use it all the time. Maybe it works well for me because I rarely use it at range, I run up to the mob, drop Restraining Prison, pop Liquid Lightning, and spam Elemental Ring two or three times and move on. Even being there in melee range, I rarely ever get hit as I continuously move around the targets while using Elemental Ring.