Poll - No Stamina Recovery While Blocking

Stalwart385

Since we can't make polls and I want to see how the community feels.

Insightful - If you want to revert the change.
Agree - If you like the change.
Awesome - If you think it should be done differently.

omfgitsbatman

I kind of like it. For good tanks like yourself, it's not an insurmountable obstacle. Even for mediocre tanks like me, I find it way more fun. It's more challenging to say the least.
I will say that some of the bosses in the new vet dungeons are going to seem impossible at first to tanks that have my experience or less. The first one in Vet IC Prison tore me up quite a few times before we got it. I had a blast though.

aco5712

you can make polls lol. I personally dont like it for the sheer fact that tanking in PvP is alot harder now. I would have liked a dmg debuff when you block instead of no regen.

omfgitsbatman

aco5712 wrote: »

I personally dont like it for the sheer fact that tanking in PvP is alot harder now. I would have liked a dmg debuff when you block instead of no regen.

The main reason for this change was to make tanking in PVP harder and PVE more interesting. How many enemy players should one really expect to be able to hold off at one time?

Stalwart385

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I kind of like it. For good tanks like yourself, it's not an insurmountable obstacle. Even for mediocre tanks like me, I find it way more fun. It's more challenging to say the least.
I will say that some of the bosses in the new vet dungeons are going to seem impossible at first to tanks that have my experience or less. The first one in Vet IC Prison tore me up quite a few times before we got it. I had a blast though.

Thanks Tick. I can't say I have enjoyed the change myself. I like a challenge but this pulls my focus away from the things I enjoyed when tanking. I would have liked if it was more engaging to the fights, not my resource bars. The micro managing resources and gimpy builds are not fun for me. I also think its silly that stamina regen isn't a viable resource for tanks, that really gets to me. I just wish they would have done it differently. Maybe a 50% nerf so that you have to watch stamina and not micro manage it. I would also be okay with it if perma-blocking wasn't necessary for some stuff. Leaving in the necessity for perma-blocking just leads to gimpy workarounds.

That first Prison guy is tough. I see some people are just kite tanking him. I stood there and took it like a bag of meat lol. I don't like kiting so dps can use liquid lightning, cinder storm and such. Took some well timed healing and all the mitigation I had. They said it's bugged though, hitting harder than it should.

aco5712 wrote: »

you can make polls lol. I personally dont like it for the sheer fact that tanking in PvP is alot harder now. I would have liked a dmg debuff when you block instead of no regen.

I couldn't find the option like on the main forums. Not sure why it's not working for me.

Darnathian

Cant do it like this. Poll has to be they put their class also.

Toomdad

Not sure how the forum scoring works but this is certainly a clever idea.

Divinius

aco5712 wrote: »

you can make polls lol.

Actually, you can't make polls in this "Public Test Server" forum. Go ahead, try it...

omfgitsbatman

@Stalwart385
I did have to change my bars up a bit, and ask for a a shard occasionally from the templar.
I found a couple little tricks for dk tanking with the stam changes:
I use magma armor almost exclusively as my ultimate for a couple reasons- It's an earthen heart ability and mountain's blessing combined with the battle roar passives bring your stamina back up in a hurry. It also allows me to completely drop block and start heavy attacking.
I'm using igneous shields a lot. Way more than I'm using dragon blood. Before, Dragon blood was my go to. Now, I use igneous shields first, and follow it up with a dragon blood if I need to. This again is because of mountain's blessing.
I also use my hardened armor way more than I used to because it's a magicka buff instead of stam. My days of using magicka only for chains and dragon blood are done. I might start stacking slightly more magicka for this reasaon.

Armitas

IN before lock.

Just make a poll on the general forums.

omfgitsbatman

Armitas wrote: »

IN before lock.

Just make a poll on the general forums.

I think this is an issue all itself. This is a direct issue relating to PTS feedback. It belongs in this forum. If they really want feedback, they should enable polls inside this forum.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

For me its too far. A massive nerf to tanks tells me the direction they want tanks to go. They are making tanks even less useful in a game where you can get through most stuff without one. Tanks have no role at all in pvp and very little use in most pve. They give up massive amounts of damage to be able to take a beating and now they are nerfing that even more. AT the same time they are improving light and medium armor quite a bit to reduce the need for tanks even more.

They have gone too far and refuse to listen to the players. They have done this as a nerf to blocking in pvp and have lied saying its about pve. Clearly those in charge of these choices pvp with dps and get annoyed when they cant kill tanks. So they get nerfed into the ground.

Defense stats are the only stats in the game thats capped. defense penitration skills make what little defense there is useless. And now blocking is nerfed so bad it is absolute garbage. Clearly they dont want tanks in the game. Doing all this while adding a $25 pvp expansion is just a massive kick in the teeth to tanks. Here pay to be nerfed into the ground.

The whole time heavy armor passives have been horrible and 1 hand and shield skills have been absolute trash. Everything else has gotten more powerful.

Lionxoft

OP is farming for awesomes. xD Why didn't I think of that?

Personofsecrets

Change from my perspective

PVE reason - "Players just hold block so they don't get killed by one huge attack"

Change - Doesn't have to do with players getting killed by one huge attack. Players are finding ways to still continuously hold block.

PVP reason - "There is the idea that if you aren't blocking at close range you are playing wrong"

Change - Doesn't address why blocking is important in PVP. I'm not sure what block builds are supposed to do here.

So in both cases the developers argument from the ESO live broadcast started by assuming that continuously blocking is the wrong way to play the game. They stated the reasons that people continuously block and, despite those reasons, implemented a blocking nerf that makes blocking cost an extra 20,000 stamina per minute.

In practice I haven't found the change particularly fun, well, because it is a nerf. Regardless of how unrewarding I find the nerf, my time in White Gold Tower informs my opinion that the developers didn't consider tanking carefully enough when designing some of the boss fights.

Even though I felt weaker than before, facing off against the Standard Bearers boss was an interesting fight. That boss battle was done mostly right. On the other hand, The Adjudicator and Planar Inhibitor made little sense from a tanking perspective. The Adjudicator did such minor damage that my armor alone was enough to protect me and the attack that killed people, the traveling hands on the ground, targets randomly - the tank doesn't have control of the fight and really doesn't need to be there. I've had a similar experience with the Planar Inhibitor and I have no idea how people are fighting that boss as a tank. The tanks job of aggro is split because of a mechanic and portals are so far away that a more traditional tank is apt to fail at destroying them. It is another Engine Guardian fight where the tank should just go DPS so that they can actually be effective.

Overall the change fails to address why players are incentivized to continuously hold block, it fails at making continuously holding block undesirable behavior, the change will limit design space for developers, it will limit play style diversity for tanks, and it is bizarre to see that the developers make changes for tanks fun from the bottom of their hearts, but go on to make more content where a tank isn't super useful.

Nifty2g

This guy just wants his forum stars lol
nice try

Stalwart385

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

@Stalwart385
I did have to change my bars up a bit, and ask for a a shard occasionally from the templar.
I found a couple little tricks for dk tanking with the stam changes:
I use magma armor almost exclusively as my ultimate for a couple reasons- It's an earthen heart ability and mountain's blessing combined with the battle roar passives bring your stamina back up in a hurry. It also allows me to completely drop block and start heavy attacking.
I'm using igneous shields a lot. Way more than I'm using dragon blood. Before, Dragon blood was my go to. Now, I use igneous shields first, and follow it up with a dragon blood if I need to. This again is because of mountain's blessing.
I also use my hardened armor way more than I used to because it's a magicka buff instead of stam. My days of using magicka only for chains and dragon blood are done. I might start stacking slightly more magicka for this reasaon.

Almost verbatim what I was doing also. Magma armor on both bars and heavy attacking during ult. My build wasn't ready for the igneous spams though. Taunting, crowd control and chains took a pretty big toll. One of the funky parts is that I'm using stam/mana regen drinks. The extra stam probably isn't too necessary so I may just go with green mana regen drinks, haven't decided. Probably going to go with a mana producing set to replace footman. Maybe warlock if I can get good rings. If not I'll make Seducer to replace Hist.

Stalwart385

Lionxoft wrote: »

OP is farming for awesomes. xD Why didn't I think of that?

Nifty2g wrote: »

This guy just wants his forum stars lol
nice try

I will go to any lengths for that forum cred =P

Rinmaethodain

ZOS seems to ignore feedback non related directly to IC (the base game patch related).
They especially love to ignore feedback about "0 stamina regen while blocking"

We already had pool.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202628/poll-stam-regen-on-blocking/p1
We had plenty of topics
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201125/allow-stamina-regeneration-while-blocking/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201750/no-stam-regen-while-blocking-this-has-got-to-be-pulled-before-it-goes-live/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190299/pve-tanking-future-do-not-get-rid-of-stam-regen-while-blocking-in-pve/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200917/pve-tanking-future-r-i-p-tanks-do-not-get-rid-of-stam-regen-while-blocking-in-pve/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202620/if-its-so-much-fun-to-not-regen-stamina-while-blocking/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201125/allow-stamina-regeneration-while-blocking/p1

Plenty of negative feedback from people who actually care for PVE tanking and tanking future.

Unfortunately ZOS apparently thinks that anyone who doesnt go to PTS is NOT ALLOWED to provide feedback and he is wrong from the start. Heck, they will ignore topics even in PTS section posted by people who went on PTS.

Because in recent ESO live we had statements from ZOS side "We have lot of positive feedback about stamina change".

This means one of two things:
- zos ignores any feedback that does not go as they planned, so they claim the change is "positive"
- we have people on PTS who spam false postitive /feedback because they will achieve personal gainst from this unjustified nerf - people like PVPer DPSes who are mad that someone would dare to not die within one second of their 1 key insta kill macro, people who were irked by tanks because they could live longer and not die with one hit like all other glass cannon builds

Thats why anyone who really cares for PVE tanking future should post the true /feedback about this unjustified and *** nerf.

Dreddnawt

Lets makes this clear and simple:
Without block not only the Tanks are defenseless, but those healers, support, and dps roles they protect are toasted too. How many players will continue to play the game when every dungeon and delve is a massive suicide run getting everyone in the group murdered 20 times an hour just to keep grinding our faces across meat cleavers in the hopes we can scrape through to the next horribly painful encounter???

If ZoS doesnt want us to be able to block then they need to change the fundamental game mechanics for all PvE enemies, as well as PvP players.

The reasons?
~ How many PvE bosses can hit you for 20k+ damage with a single shot? Pretty much every one in every single vet dungeon I know of. If you drop block for even a second at the wrong moment they destroy you instantly.

~ How many 10k+ dps players have gank-stun abilities in PvP? Pretty much every NB, Sorc, and DK who is worth their salt can wreck through a 30k HP tank in seconds if the tank isnt blocking. 2-4 second stuns/knockdowns mean death.

~ TANK ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HARD TO KILL!!!! Duh!! Thats why Tanks wear the heavy armor, equip massive shields, put so much into mitigation and HP, and SACRIFICE by not having incredible healing spells, massive damage dealing abilities, and handy dandy utility skills. The entire idea behind the TANK ROLE is to be able to take tons of hits and remain standing.

Yet here we are catering to the 1% of whiny cry baby PvPers who once got their feelings hurt by some guy in heavy armor so big bad mama ZOS is gonna come spank us mean ol' players for DARING TO PLAY THE GAME AS IT SHOULD BE!!

Rinmaethodain

Apparently, ZOS also does not have idea what tank is supposed to do.
Maybe if they would start playing tanks, not only DPS on every live stream they would get a little idea what it means to be a tank.

Taken from initial PTS notes:

"Monsters

Mages, skirmishers, and tanks have all been tweaked to have less dramatic variation. In general, mages will have less damage and more health, while tanks will have less health and more damage. This means the average fight length and amount of incoming damage will be more balanced, while retaining the thematic differences between monster types. "

Is this, what tank is supposed to be in ZOS imagination? Less health (die fast) and do more damage?
Then what does a DPS is supposed to do according to ZOS great plan?

PBpsy

Wow.Stop Exploiting the forums game.

DDuke

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Apparently, ZOS also does not have idea what tank is supposed to do.
Maybe if they would start playing tanks, not only DPS on every live stream they would get a little idea what it means to be a tank.

Taken from initial PTS notes:

"Monsters

Mages, skirmishers, and tanks have all been tweaked to have less dramatic variation. In general, mages will have less damage and more health, while tanks will have less health and more damage. This means the average fight length and amount of incoming damage will be more balanced, while retaining the thematic differences between monster types. "

Is this, what tank is supposed to be in ZOS imagination? Less health (die fast) and do more damage?
Then what does a DPS is supposed to do according to ZOS great plan?

Perhaps if you stopped pretending you're representing every tank in the game and that everyone who disagrees with you is providing "false feedback" and/or is in some conspiracy against tanks, and instead provided constructive feedback, they'd be more willing to listen to you.


Or you know, you can copy/paste spam the same QQ over & over across multiple threads.


Suit yourself.

Divinius

It just really bothers me when any changes are made to the game in an attempt to "make PvP more fair" that totally screw over PvE players. It's completely unnecessary.

Please stop nerfing the crap out of my PvE builds because it isn't "balanced" in PvP.

If something is only a problem in PvP, then make the change only affect PvP.

PikkonMG

Shouldn't be 0, maybe 50% less stam recovery while blocking or something but 0 is stupid.