Please Explain The Desire For Level Cap

GrieverXVII

Gidorick wrote: »

This is a general question regarding level caps. I don't understand the desire for wanting progression to stop.

I understand that level caps help with power creep and create manageable progression for new players. I get THAT perspective.

I don't understand why a player who is at level cap wouldn't want the level cap increased. Doesn't a raised level cap just offer more of the game that you've played up to this point?

Any clarification would be appreciated.

I will never have an issue with progression always. but what's wrong with this idea is that, if you can continue leveling to 100. that means more skill points with every level, people will have the most craziest overpowered builds imaginable as seen in games like Dark Souls. Caps are good because it limits your skill point investment to make builds that "dont have it all". Now here's where a system like champion points comes into place. it's a way to continue progression and rewarding in a slower fashion without breaking what i've explained above. Now if they increase the level with some new or harder content that will require more skill points to builds to become viable for the challenge, then that's cool. but caps are there for reasons that people can't build "one build beats all" it destroys diversity and really becomes bland and boring.

Dark Souls is a very good example of this, thats why community's opt to make Soul Level caps for community PvP, because if everyone played to their hearts content, everyone would have the same overpowered builds meaning "melee/ranged/mage/tank" all-in-one, it's cheap and no fun. they capped at Soul level 150 or 200 because at that point is where you should have enough skill points to make a one way build that isn't a jack of all trades, choices and difficult point investment needs to be made and decided.

Athas24

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I still don't understand Horizonal Progression, anything that makes you more powerful is verticle progression surely
CS is Verticle, it in no way helps you to specialise, surely specialisation would come from more morphs to existing skills create more fun and interesting ways to use them, even synergies from using skills together.

^^^ Agreed that Champion Pts are clearly vertical progression. The more XP behind them the more you get. The more you get the better your character is. That's vertical progression. Horizontal would be simply adding more diversifying skills to the game and giving everyone X amount of points to put into said skills once obtaining lets say... lv 50... honestly whatever level you want, as long as everyone gets it. That's the key to making it horizontal..
Also, horizontal progression is an awful idea. Nothing to work towards.

Carterboy254

Seems to me just more work to put into the game more time to play the game more money in their pockets when the release the new items and mounts, etc in the crown store

Dionysusjones

For me preserving the lvl cap guarantees the longevity of my accomplishments and ensures content doesn't automatically become obsolete every 6 months.

Ffastyl

Horizontal Progression is a buzz word I have seen all too much on these forums without an explanation accompanying it. The rare example has shed some insight on what people may mean, so I shall try to assign a definition.

Horizontal Progression is the advancement of one's character through the addition of options. An example would the acquirement of new guns in an FPS, or new skills here in ESO. It is progress that does not necessarily boost the stats of a character, nor is it a reward you may use, but it does add another option for the player to experiment with.

With this loosely founded definition, Horizontal Progression would include more skill points, skill lines, and means to further customize one's character. A suggestion by @Rune_Relic for the Champion System would provide a Horizontal Progression.

Rune_Relic wrote:

With the skyshard/skill tree system, we have two loadouts with 5 actives + 1
This is in place to stop people having 20 toolbars with every skill from every tree being available in combat instantly at all times like some MMOs.
No one is stopped from farming/grinding skyshards and skills....but everyone is limited in how many they can use at a time.

Now apply this to the Champion system.
No one is limited on how many CP they grind nor how many Champion skills they can work on and invest into.
BUT... you can only have 1 constellation from Mage, 1 constellation from Warrior and 1 constellation from Thief active at any time.
The passives from all trees are disabled, unless they are selected and placed in one of 3 slots in the Champion system skillbar.

Champion Bar example.
Slot 1 - Mage Slot - Ritual - Mighty (+ unlocks....Opportunist / Perfect Strike / Exploiter / Last Stand)
Slot 2 - Thief Slot - Tower - Warlord (+ unlocks...Ensnare / Inspiration Boost/ Maras Gift / War Mount)
Slot 3 - Warrior Slot - Steed - Medium Armour Focus (+ Unlocks...Invigorating Bash / Phase / Shield Expert / Reinforced)
Now it doesn't matter if someone has maxed out all 12 skills in Warrior or Mage or Thief.... you can only use 1 each of them at any time.

Gidorick

How is @Rune_Relic's idea not a limited

Faulgor wrote: »

I have never seen anyone applaud a level cap increase itself.
People want more stuff to do, new rewards, new options, new possibilities, new looks. But none of that is necessarily tied to a level increase.
So, no, a level cap increase does not offer "more of the game". More of the game offers more of the game.

That's a fair point. I agree that more content is the most desirable thing for us players but I am trying to understand why a raised level cap, in an of itself, seems undesirable. It seems that players seem to resent a level cap that is raised. Less resentful if it comes with more content.

I'm trying to understand that resentment.

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

tldr:
Horizontal progression: Rewards skill, by awarding wins.
Vertical progression: Rewards wins, by awarding skill.

So, one of the things I'm getting about horizontal progression is it would really require the addition of skills on ZOS' part OR with gear. So like if ZOS were to introduce religion into ESO and allow players to worship Aedra or Daedra and this gave the player abilities & was more like a series of skill lines that unlocked at level 50. Or perhaps after defeating Molag Bal players are given the title of Hero of Tamriel and that unlocks a skill line. Or what if players could specialize a morph of their class after level 50 as was suggested by @TheShadowScout in multiple threads - more in the spoiler.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I had a similar suggestion a while back, for a class morph to be choosen after completing Cadwells silver/gold... to reward people who do play through that - a variation of the idea was to let them do the class morph after silver, and let them pick a cross-class skill line (basic class skills only) after gold...
I'll just repost it here:

So I would think the best way to add more "classes" is to give each class, say, three different "class morphs", each with its own new skill/passives line. Perhaps becoming available after completing cadwells silver? Some possibilities:

Dragonknight
- Berzerker (self buffs, warcries?)
- Conqueror (group buffs, standarts)
- Pyromancer (flame resist and even more fire)

Nightblade
- Illusionist (illusion summoning, mind magic)
- Monk (melee support & assorted magic?)
- Ranger (animal summoning and magic)

Sorceror
- Cryomancer (ice magic)
- Necromancer (death magic and undead summoning)
- Spellsword (melee support & magic)

Templar
- Druid (plant magic, some summons)
- Shaman (primal nature magic, totems)
- Witchhunter (counterspells)

Those were quick ideas of course, without much consideration but flavor. I went for three options instead of two to add more choices for added character diversity. Since that is always something I would love to see... much more fun having more diversity, especially since the limited number of skills one can actually use at any one time (5+U) makes people having to think and choose, so adding more active skills only increases a characters choices, not exactly their power...
And yes, spellcrafting might be able to cover some of those... but spellcrafting won't give you passives, which these skill lines should.

(Make a discussion about this already Scout!)

These would all be examples of end game horizontal progression.

So I'm getting why horizontal progression is desirable, but it seems tangential to vertical progression. Weapon skills lines, Vampire and Werewolf skill lines, these are all horizontal tangential progression, so honestly... it's a digression of this specific discussion, which is asking the question: "Why do players want a cap on vertical progression?"

VictoriaRachel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Hypothetically, what if the level cap raised and you just continued what you were doing before the cap was raised. Wouldn't you get those levels anyway? Or are you feeling like you're being interrupted because what you're doing doesn't give you XP. If that's the case, why are you concerned with level cap? If your "own aims and goals" don't include activities that yield XP, you don't need the levels. Or is it that you don't want to HAVE to get to the next level to play new content?

I would get those levels, yes. But what has that actually added to the game? Nothing. If I am just doing what I was doing anyway why would there need to be a higher level cap? That to me is not progression. Sure a few numbers get bigger but that is a very artificial and very unrewarding. I do like progression, I do want progression. It is just in my opinion level caps alone do not provide anything of any meaning.

Well, as with progression like the Champion System, it's not that one CP gives you huge growth, it's the overall impact of the CP system over time. Same with levels. So while, yes, you would be doing whatever it is you're doing, you would get stronger and more efficient at whatever you're doing. If you're killing mobs... you kill them faster. If you're running dungeons, you become more survivable. If you're in PVP, you become a more viable opponent. Gaining levels and abilities would make you more efficient and more powerful, no matter the task. This isn't artificial and unrewarding, it's progression in the purist of forms.

Dionysusjones wrote: »

For me preserving the lvl cap guarantees the longevity of my accomplishments and ensures content doesn't automatically become obsolete every 6 months.

How does it preserve the longevity of your accomplishments? What accomplishments are those @Dionysusjones?

I DO agree with content becoming obsolete being an issue. I address outleveling (obsoletion) of main game content in my post here (Add the option to scale characters DOWN to older zones, please. ) As I see it, we should be allowed to play anywhere, no matter what current level is, and be viable.

GrieverXVII wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

This is a general question regarding level caps. I don't understand the desire for wanting progression to stop.

I understand that level caps help with power creep and create manageable progression for new players. I get THAT perspective.

I don't understand why a player who is at level cap wouldn't want the level cap increased. Doesn't a raised level cap just offer more of the game that you've played up to this point?

Any clarification would be appreciated.

I will never have an issue with progression always. but what's wrong with this idea is that, if you can continue leveling to 100. that means more skill points with every level, people will have the most craziest overpowered builds imaginable as seen in games like Dark Souls. Caps are good because it limits your skill point investment to make builds that "dont have it all". Now here's where a system like champion points comes into place. it's a way to continue progression and rewarding in a slower fashion without breaking what i've explained above. Now if they increase the level with some new or harder content that will require more skill points to builds to become viable for the challenge, then that's cool. but caps are there for reasons that people can't build "one build beats all" it destroys diversity and really becomes bland and boring.

Dark Souls is a very good example of this, thats why community's opt to make Soul Level caps for community PvP, because if everyone played to their hearts content, everyone would have the same overpowered builds meaning "melee/ranged/mage/tank" all-in-one, it's cheap and no fun. they capped at Soul level 150 or 200 because at that point is where you should have enough skill points to make a one way build that isn't a jack of all trades, choices and difficult point investment needs to be made and decided.

So you're saying the MAIN issue is the power creep and gap it creates. There are ways to mitigate this but there is always that perception players will get of a player being SO far past them in level they will never be able to catch up.

It seems that perhaps there is also an additional concern of players being interrupted. If a player is doing trials or playing in PVP or whatever, and the level cap is raised, they feel the need to be that level cap NOW. Players running dungeons will require those who want to join to be the highest level. Player will see those that beat them in PVP are a higher level than them. With everything else considered... raising the level cap seems to create a sort of chore for players.

If levels are added along with content... at least players will have new things to do while they do their chores.

It still seems to be an issue of player perspective. It's not that adding levels will hurt anything or break anything, it's that players will get annoyed by it because they feel like they are being given "busy work", even if that busy work will be completed with their regular gameplay. It doesn't make sense... but it does.

GrieverXVII

I could care less about leaderboards. Champion points should be in PvE but not PvP. nothing harms anyone in PvE...

GreySix

Gidorick wrote: »

This is a general question regarding level caps. I don't understand the desire for wanting progression to stop.

I don't care either way. My only issue was that ZOS intoned that VR levels were going the way of the Dodo.

So to then subsequently announce that they're increasing VR levels by two is just asinine on the face of it.

Funkopotamus

Gidorick wrote: »

This is a general question regarding level caps. I don't understand the desire for wanting progression to stop.

I understand that level caps help with power creep and create manageable progression for new players. I get THAT perspective.

I don't understand why a player who is at level cap wouldn't want the level cap increased. Doesn't a raised level cap just offer more of the game that you've played up to this point?

Any clarification would be appreciated.

I do not think most of us would be here arguing on the forums over VR16 or even CP's as much if there was some sort of END GAME CONTENT other than PvP.

But when the only End Game Content is PvP there is going to be a large portion of the player base that is not going to be happy. Only because most of us cannot afford to play the game 9 hours a day and grind enough CP to be able to enjoy the "End Game" at a competitive level. No matter how "Skilled" you are at ESO PvP.... you will end up being force fed CP by the grinders. That is what most people have a problem with not level caps.

Gidorick

So the main problem @Funkopotamus, is the power gap that continued vertical progression creates? That makes sense to me... but it seems that the players who complain the loudest about increased levels are those that have already achieved it. Why should they care if the people beneath them can't compete with them. Heck... they should LIKE that.

BrassRazoo

It is for fly by night bludgers that just want to grind to max and stay there.
It is totally boring and level caps need regular increases.
Perhaps a couple of Veteran Levels per quarter.

k2blader

Level cap ≠ end of progression

Gidorick

BrassRazoo wrote: »

It is for fly by night bludgers that just want to grind to max and stay there.
It is totally boring and level caps need regular increases.
Perhaps a couple of Veteran Levels per quarter.

This is what confuses me WHY do they want to stay at level cap. The ONLY thing I can figure is the following scenario:

Level Cap: 2 players are playing PVP. Player 1 kills player 2. Player 2 thinks "well, I'm max level. So he can't be better than me."

Raised Level Cap: 2 players are playing PVP. Player 1 kills player 2. Player 2 thinks "well, I'm NOT max level. So he must be at max level. I cant PVP anymore because now I have to go and attain max level so I can try to kill that other guy!"

It interrupts their fun.

Gidorick

k2blader wrote: »

Level cap ≠ end of progression

with CPs and Skill points, it doesn't. You are right about that.

k2blader

Gidorick wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Level cap ≠ end of progression

with CPs and Skill points, it doesn't. You are right about that.

Gidorick wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Level cap ≠ end of progression

with CPs and Skill points, it doesn't. You are right about that.

Yeah. To ramble-- I mean clarify-- a bit, I'd like progression in the form of creative PvP content, or good gear options obtainable without having to run through monster mazes.

Wolfshead

Well content can be add without add new lvl cap good example is WoW (i know most people here hate that game and so do i but this one of few thing blizzard have done right).

Back to my example blizzard have made so each expansion do have a certain amount of content patch driver the story forward but the lvl cap stay the same until the expansion is over then when new expansion come the raise the lvl cap but under expansion you can still progression your char by get new gear and other thing without add more lvl to char.

That is why i dont like ZoS idea of raise lvl cap with by it look like with each new content patch for basically story is still same for us that is kill molag bal which we have done when got to lvl 50 so basically VR 1 - 14 is just way for us to see other factions storys but story is same even there way to kill molag bal but we dont have to.

I will be ok if ZoS add new expansion with a new story line and then decide raise lvl cap for then it is new game in game so to speak.

Thabigster

I don't know, no one really is asking you to level up to VR16, I mean at the end of the day do what you want and play how you want.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Let me explain in simple terms why level increases do nothing for your gaming experience, especially if you are already at endgame content.

A level increase (the way its done in this game) does't really enhance your personal gaming experience in any meaningful way. When you are already at endgame content, it is merely an arms race. Now, to stay competitive, you have to grind up because you know everyone else will as well.

The "Amazing New Gear" or itemization that is always promised to us (or used as a justification for level increases), actually isn't that amazing. The only difference with the new gear is higher stats and the same broken 5 pc bonus that only works on Tuesdays at dusk when standing on one foot.

But that new gear gives 900 max magicka instead of 850 per piece. That is 350 extra magicka for a 7pc set of the new level gear. That amounts to about 35 more spell damage which gives you X more DPS.

Does a level increase make the gear better? NO!

• The higher level monsters will have more health/resistance to compensate for your increased DPS.
• The higher level VR16 players that will grind immediately will as well.

Does a level increase challenge you and make you a better player? NO!

• Having more attributes doesn't make you any better.
• But you have to level up to keep that competitive edge because you know other players (in both endgame PVP and PVE) will too and the attribute race along with champion system makes this a game an ever increasing mathematical competition, not an increase in skill.

So I waste precious and limited game time OUTSIDE of what i like to do most (PVP) to grind gold for crafting materials, grind XP for the new levels, and grind PvE dungeons and undaunted dailies for new VR16 copies of GEAR I ALREADY OWN at V12 and V14 just to stay mathematically competitive.

And you wonder why we don't like meaningless level increases? It does NOTHING for us and takes us away from doing something fun and makes us do something boring.

Knootewoot

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

As a PvPer a level increase does NOTHING for you. It is merely an arms race. Now to stay competitive, you have to grind up because you know everyone else will as well.

The "Amazing New Gear" actually isn't that amazing, it just has higher stats and the same broken 5 pc bonus that only works on Tuesdays at dusk when standing on one foot.

But that new gear gives 900 max magicka instead of 850 per piece. That is 350 extra magicka for a 7pc set of the new level gear.

Does it make the gear better? NO. The higher level monsters will have more health/resistance to compensate. Does it make you a better player NO. But you have to level up to keep that competitive edge because you know other players in PvP will too and the attribute race along with champion system makes this a game of math, not skill.

So I waste precious and limited game time OUTSIDE of what i like to do most (PVP) to grind gold for crafting materials, grind XP for the new levels, and grind PvE dungeons and undaunted dailies for new VR16 copies of GEAR I ALREADY OWN at V12 and V14 just to stay mathematically competitive.

And you wonder why we don't like meaningless level increases? It does NOTHING for us and takes us away from doing something fun and makes us do something boring.

/agree. PvE ruines PvP (how about that PvE-peasants. Now it's the other way around eh)

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Leandor

My very personal opinion. (That means: If you as the reader don't share it, ignore it. If you as the reader feel irritated by it, rest assured that I do not need you to share it)

It is "en vogue" to be against it.

Whether there is vertical or horizontal progression, you will have to keep up to stay on top. Whether it's a level cap increase or a new "gear season", both will require you to craft/earn/upgrade new gear. Whether it's additional skill points or additional champion point (to stay with the currently in place options), you have to acquire them.

It actually doesn't matter at all. As long as there is progression, there will be a point where what you had before becomes inferior to what is available currently. So all this whinery is just a reason for the reason's sake. Not based on logical considerations.

Ffastyl

Gidorick wrote: »

So the main problem @Funkopotamus, is the power gap that continued vertical progression creates? That makes sense to me... but it seems that the players who complain the loudest about increased levels are those that have already achieved it. Why should they care if the people beneath them can't compete with them. Heck... they should LIKE that.

If you have experienced leveling your character beyond 100 in Demon's Souls or 200 in Dark Souls, you will have experienced why an increasing vertical gap is bad for gameplay and game longevity. Matchmaking in those games (Dark Souls 2 uses a different system) is based on level, with only players within ~10% of each other being able to interact. Either due to the difficulty of leveling up (Demon's Souls) or the community restrictions on leveling (Dark Souls (players agreed level 150 is enough to have a fleshed out build without evolving into a jack-of-all-trades)), increasing level decreases player contact, both competitive and cooperative. In both I chose to continue leveling my character and the result is I see another player, friendly or not, once every month of playing from what used to be 5 players a day.

In ESO there is a much looser level based matchmaking in the LFG Tool, but players are not restricted from interacting with each other based on level. However, the community places restrictions, insisting max level groups or groups within x level range. Increasing the level cap decreases the players you can play with. In a competitive and cooperative environment, nothing is worse than having no one to challenge/help you.

This is why raising the level cap is a bad idea, @Gidorick .

edit: An example from within my experience of ESO: Havoc thanked LoM for being the only guild which could stop them, the only thing in PvP they could not faceroll. For Competitive play especially, people want others who can challenge them. Being so powerful no one can compete is the last thing a competitive player wants.


The other less important reason is the capped players have spent 100,000s of gold on improving their gear to Legendary and now they have to do so again. Since gold is replaceable it's an annoyance more than a problem with increased level caps.

VictoriaRachel

Gidorick wrote: »

Well, as with progression like the Champion System, it's not that one CP gives you huge growth, it's the overall impact of the CP system over time. Same with levels. So while, yes, you would be doing whatever it is you're doing, you would get stronger and more efficient at whatever you're doing. If you're killing mobs... you kill them faster. If you're running dungeons, you become more survivable. If you're in PVP, you become a more viable opponent. Gaining levels and abilities would make you more efficient and more powerful, no matter the task. This isn't artificial and unrewarding, it's progression in the purist of forms.

Stronger and more efficient without new content are synonymous with easier and more boring. Tackling content I have already done, but now it is even less of challenge is regression in my view. My idea of progression is tackling harder content, getting my character through more challenging situations. That is why I play and that is why I want to improve my character. Power only feels powerful when it is tested. That is the issue with ‘progression’ based on numbers not content, it is not satisfying. Without a test it feels artificial.

New levels need to come new challenges. Why would I want PvE to be less of a challenge? Why would I want to have to grind out two more levels just so PvP can be exactly same after a few days as the opponents will have levelled up too? That is what a level cap increase alone means to me, a waste of both mine and the developers time.

In relation to Championship Points, I actually feel very similar. They do have one saving grace which is PvP. Unlike the level cap there is a distinction between different players as they are much higher cap so equality is much harder to reach. However, what I see as their saving grace others see as their flaw so it is hard to please everyone!

Sausage

Because most people dont care about endgame, they just care about the journey and expansions, basically when they have seen everything one or two times, they leave. Then theres those people who just want to play ESO non-stop, we endgamers are the minority.

Rune_Relic

Its not levelling.....its the Power progressions vs Skill progression.

The vet system is pure power progression with level + more powerful gear.

To me the levelling up period to define your character was 1-50 (Vertical progression).
50+ was when the character was defined through power levelling and stats distribution
ie the point of this was to define the health/magicka/stamina ratio and define if you were Tank/DPS/Healer kind of roles.
Once the character is defined by the stats through levels the character power phase is complete.

That's when we enter the endgame phase (Horizontal progression).
This phase is no longer about defining our power and stats focus.
Now its about adding skills/gear to enhance the character that we have created and the role we have chosen.
In a manner that doesn't let anyone be the BEST tank/healer/dps all at the same time with one build.
Sure you can focus in all but you will be weaker in all...sacrificing power in any area with versatility instead.

Thus 50+ at endgame phase is where content should not be gated by power.
Now you should be able to enter any 50+ area and enhance your chosen role and develop your skill at that role.
You will find new gear (content) ...and pick the gear that enhances the role you have chosen the most.
You will find new skills (XP/shards)... and pick the skills that enhance the role you have chosen the most.
Either way you can only wear 7 pieces of armour and not as many pieces as you can buy.
Either way you can only have 1/2 weapons and not as many as you can buy.
Either way you can only have 5 actives and not as many as you can learn.
But there is still progression developing your character endlessly with new skills/armour/weapons to find although you can only slot a limited number.
You slot what you think is best for your progression
...You see where I am going here right ??

Progression != Grind + Vertical progression.
All vertical progession does is create a power gap through grinding.
Once you have those 2 weapon slots, 7 armour slots, 3 jewellery slots, 5 active slots, 1 ultimate slot filled...you are good to go and on an even playing field with everyone else.
If you chose wisely you will be effective.
If the skills are balanced you will be effective.
If you chose poorly or zos balanced poorly...you can get more skills/armour/weapons and swap stuff out (this is optional and not compulsory).
You don't need all weapons, armour sets, skills to compete...you need the right skills/weapons/armour combination for your build.
The only problem is OP or bugged gear/skills kills this diversity of unique builds and produces FOTM builds.

So do you want to grind for months before you do that group dungeon trial or PVP ?
Or do you want to go straight to the content with friends and pactice your skills and fine tune your gear...getting better and more skilled all the time ?
Admiring the guy next to you who is genuinely more skilled with optimised gear and can teach you lots about his personal build and its strengths and weaknesses

Cuyler

From an economic standpoint I want to repeat content at max level in order to sell the drops from the better rewards. I can sell a v12 necklace of adroitness for 50k gold and a v1 version of it only for 1k gold.

In terms of v16 if there is new gear or referbed gear at v16 that players want to buy.....I want to be out there collecting at v16 not v1. For example, undaunted gold keys (personal benefit) or something like a shiny new trial at v16....if having a new BiS set.

Now if there was no reason other than a couple new quests to do at v16 with crap rewards, then THAT would be a waste of time rushing to the cap.

Mettaricana

i prefer caps but i would like significant caps like +5 levels and enough content added that i should not have to redo anything more than once or twice. vr 12 -14 and craglorn was a let down as it forced grouping and just derailed the smoothness of questing to level and said hey vr 12's see this new zone *middle finger* get some friends loser. then they nerfed it to death making the thought of something to do during vr 12-14 pointless

Faugaun

Horizontal progression seems like a point of confusion so I started a thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/192948/what-is-horizontal-progression?new=1

To discuss that topic and help determine what the community defines as horizontal progression. I've also included a link to my best shot at understanding and describing horizontal progression. It's linked on the above thread or you can just get it from this link:

http://asolutionaday.com/games/what-is-horizontal-progression/