Champion Points Catch Up Mechanic Concept

Gidorick

There is currently quite a bit of concern regarding player catching up to legacy players when it comes to Champion Points (CP). Well, here’s my suggestion:

@ZOS should implement a curved buff scale so that the lower number of CPs a character has in comparison to the highest number of CPs that any character has on a server, the faster that character earns CPs.

A player with 100 CPs would earn their next CP faster if the highest number of CPs on the server is 1000 than they would if the highest number of CPs was only 500. The higher the maximum number of CPs that has been earned on the server, the faster those with a lower number of CPs will earn Champion Points.

Using this CP XO Buff Percentage, CPs will not be earned any faster by the community, but players would be able to climb that CP ladder more quickly. Using the maximum number of CPs to determine the buff also means that the higher the number of CPs that have been earned, the faster lower CP earners will be able to catch up. The highest possible Buff percentage could also be determined by the highest number of CPs earned on the server.

Using two scales, if the most CPs that any player currently has is 600 CPs, the maximum buff any player can have is about 15%. This would leave us with the following approximations:

• 60 CP = 15% buff
• 300 CP = 12% buff
• 500 CP = 8% buff

These numbers increase dramatically the more CPs are earned. If the most CPs that any player has is 2500 CPs, the maximum buff any player can have is about 210%. This would leave us with the following approximations:

• 100 CP = 210% buff
• 500 CP = 201% buff
• 1000 CP = 189% buff
• 2000 CP = 126% buff

Now, these specific percentages aren’t by any means gospel or exactly what I’m suggesting here. The rate of the curved scale of either the Buff Percentage or the Buff Rate could be altered one way or the other.

What I’m suggesting is a mechanic where there is a percentage of a buff applied to players who have less than the top number of CPs and that buff should be dependent on how many CPs the top player on the server has earned. This would not in any way change the rate of community XP gain, but would, instead, change the rate at which new players are able to catch up to older players. This mechanic should exist independently from and underneath Enlightenment, XP Pots, and Crown XP Scrolls.

These mechanics will close the inevitable CP gap but would not undermine the accomplishments of those players that have gone out and earned the most CPs.

A couple of other views:

• @Attorneyatlawl, in one of his suggestions has a very similar idea but suggested the following:

  Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

  Take the champion levels of the top tenth or so of people playing the game who have logged in within the last month on the entire megaserver. Then, average them. This gives you a figure as to how many champion ranks the top XP earners in the game have right now.

  I really like the idea of taking an average of the top ten percentage of players so everyone isn't just based off of the ONE highest player. This would also create a kind of competition between the top earners to go "above and beyond". to be the best of the best!
• Another good suggestion came by the way of @Leandor

  Leandor wrote: »

  A rolling average CP baseline with a dynamic gain rate limiter, maybe even going as far as reducing CP advancement to zero at some point would be a nice way to balance the game.

  I really like the idea of basing the buff off a rolling average of players and limiting players who are above that average. It's a different take on what Attourneyatlawl and myself was thinking as it would not only buff players but it would slow other players down. I do not agree, however, that the limiter should ever reach zero.

Thoughts?

Natjur

But this would hurt their profits when they start selling CP points for 500 crowns each

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Im fine with the system as it stands. I want them to focus now on more content. New zones. Stuff like that. For the past year they have been dinking around with game systems and we have had content stagnation for 9 months now. Leave the CP system alone please ZOS and focus on what players really want which is stuff to do and new places to explore.

Tanaka_Khan

Why should those of us who have been playing since day one have to change to accommodate new players? If new players start in any other MMO (lets say WOW) do they have the right to argue that all the older players should have their characters reduced so they are all on even ground? I think not!
Should someone who has more free time be penalized because some one else can only play half as much and not earn as many CP's?

People should just accept the game as it is or go look for another.

Akavir_Sentinel

The Champion Point system is fine as it is. Those who have been playing for a long time have more than someone who just started. Just like I have millions more gold than someone who just started, and I have hundreds more skill points than someone who just started. That's the way it is.

New players should have no expectation of installing the game and instantly be at the level of players who have been playing for years.

Gidorick

With the number of threads complaining @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO... they're going to do something.

Eric Worbal ( @ZOS_EricWorbal doesn't seem to be valid) said in a recent AUA:

Eric Worbal wrote:

We are aware of balance concerns from players with more champion points. As Phil mentioned the system was designed to help keep players closer in power level with diminishing returns and enlightenment bonus XP. In the future we can implement catchup mechanics so the first 400 champion ranks require less experience, helping get new players catch up.

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/39gv5r/the_elder_scroll_online_tamriel_unlimited_team/cs3awsr

Lead systems designer @ZOS_PhilipDraven doesn't seem to be valid either.... hmmm.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, Does the system's team have a team member that acts as their forum representative? If not, to whom should I submit my resume?

Anyway, I'm worried that simply lowering the XP requirement for the first 400 CP wouldn't be a good long term solution to the CP gap that will eventually widely yawn. My solution is both a long term and short term solution. Heck, it would even work if they decided to allow each star in the champion system to increase to 150... raising the CP cap to 5400.

Gidorick

How would this penalize you @Tanaka_Khan? This wouldn't change high level CP player gain in ANY way. It wouldn't nerf you, it wouldn't slow you down, it wouldn't cap you prematurely... it would remain 100% exactly as it is now for you.

And the attitude of "Go play another game" isn't a very healthy one.

Gidorick

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

The Champion Point system is fine as it is. Those who have been playing for a long time have more than someone who just started. Just like I have millions more gold than someone who just started, and I have hundreds more skill points than someone who just started. That's the way it is.

New players should have no expectation of installing the game and instantly be at the level of players who have been playing for years.

It is? The thread on this forum would suggest otherwise.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=Fix+CP&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=

Akavir_Sentinel

Gidorick wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

The Champion Point system is fine as it is. Those who have been playing for a long time have more than someone who just started. Just like I have millions more gold than someone who just started, and I have hundreds more skill points than someone who just started. That's the way it is.

New players should have no expectation of installing the game and instantly be at the level of players who have been playing for years.

It is? The thread on this forum would suggest otherwise.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=Fix+CP&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=

And most of those threads were started by and posted in by whiners and lazy individuals that don't want to put in the time to earn the CP like everyone else has. Just like all the threads whining about veteran ranks because players don't want to put in the time. Nothing is wrong with either system. People are just plain lazy.

Gidorick

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

The Champion Point system is fine as it is. Those who have been playing for a long time have more than someone who just started. Just like I have millions more gold than someone who just started, and I have hundreds more skill points than someone who just started. That's the way it is.

New players should have no expectation of installing the game and instantly be at the level of players who have been playing for years.

It is? The thread on this forum would suggest otherwise.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=Fix+CP&title=&author=&cat=all&tags=&discussion_d=1&discussion_question=1&discussion_poll=1&comment_c=1&comment_answer=1&within=1+day&date=

And most of those threads were started by and posted in by whiners and lazy individuals that don't want to put in the time to earn the CP like everyone else has. Just like all the threads whining about veteran ranks because players don't want to put in the time. Nothing is wrong with either system. People are just plain lazy.

Well, those are the same squeaky wheels that got ESO to go B2P. They get the grease my friend. I'm just trying to suggest a system that's amicable for everyone. ZOS will accommodate those that want quick mechanics as well as those that want the grind. This system allows for a quick run up with slowing as a player approaches the top players.

Catch up mechanics WILL be introduced. I would prefer a PLAY mechanic over a PAY mechanic any day.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

There are a total of 4 threads about CP. All of them combined have less views than a thread about changing your hair in the game. I think it is very safe to say that its only a vocal few who are worried about CP and its ramifications. Note they say they are aware of the "problem" and say basically it isnt really a problem. In the future sometime they will make the first 400 easier to get. I would bet quite a bit of money the future is a LONG ways off.

Gidorick

Four? Where do you see only Four?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Some of those posts are from before March. Look for more recent ones. Alot of those were before the system even went live. In fact one is from friggin July of last year. of the ones you posted only 3 are from within the last 90 days. Four if you include this one I dont see it on there.

Gidorick

The point is that there are more than four threads. Your comment was misleading. Anyway, I'm done discussing whether or not people have issues with the Champion System.

People have issues.

You don't.

That's fine. This thread isn't discussing whether or not there is an issue. It's discussing a catch-up mechanic, which ZOS has already said they are looking into. Arguing that it's not needed or that people don't want fixes is pointless.

If you have additional comments on the proposed system please feel free to discuss them. If not, please move on.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I never said people didnt have issues. I said compared to other issues this is very very low on the list. Your search proves my point. The posts complaining are all either before the system came out or right after they said XP pots would also advance CP. The posts are not started by new people wondering how they will catch up but people who have been here since the very beginning and dont need any catching up.

So while yes there will be a catch up mechanic at some point that will be a long time from now. There are a lot of things that will take priority over yet another end game leveling revamp.

k2blader

Tanaka_Khan wrote: »

Why should those of us who have been playing since day one have to change to accommodate new players? If new players start in any other MMO (lets say WOW) do they have the right to argue that all the older players should have their characters reduced so they are all on even ground? I think not!
Should someone who has more free time be penalized because some one else can only play half as much and not earn as many CP's?

People should just accept the game as it is or go look for another.

How exactly are you hurt by newer players being not that far behind in CPs? (Don't worry, if you're into grinding mindlessly you'll always be ahead of them.)

WoW has implemented multiple ways for their newer and returning players to not feel so drastically unable to catch up and be generally competitive, i.e. have as much fun as grinders/hardcores.

[edit] Added "and returning" WoW players.

Gidorick

You're right that the majority of the complaints are more about theoretical issues instead of actual experienced issues. I just don't want the "fix" to be a band aid. I want it to be a long-time sustainable fix. Something that can be put into place and doesn't need to be fiddled with later.

And ZOS' list of urgent things to fix probably looks like...

Most of the things I post are about things that are pretty low on the priority list. More than anything, that is the number one contention that I find. The response "There are other things that should be fixed before this" has become very, very tiresome.

It's not like ZOS is telling us "hey, we're discussing this problem/idea/concept, what's your input community members?" So I just post my thoughts in the vain and unrealistic hope that our input is included in the discussions, whenever they happen.

The CP discussion IS happening NOW... so this post has a bit more timely relevance than... say... my post on the fact that Secunda doesn't have a reflection in the water.

Gidorick

k2blader wrote: »

Tanaka_Khan wrote: »

Why should those of us who have been playing since day one have to change to accommodate new players? If new players start in any other MMO (lets say WOW) do they have the right to argue that all the older players should have their characters reduced so they are all on even ground? I think not!
Should someone who has more free time be penalized because some one else can only play half as much and not earn as many CP's?

People should just accept the game as it is or go look for another.

How exactly are you hurt by newer players being not that far behind in CPs? (Don't worry, if you're into grinding mindlessly you'll always be ahead of them.)

WoW has implemented multiple ways for their newer and returning players to not feel so drastically unable to catch up and be generally competitive, i.e. have as much fun as grinders/hardcores.

[edit] Added "and returning" WoW players.

I sincerely hope we never get "Buy CP level 500 now!" type mechanics.

Akavir_Sentinel

Gidorick wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Tanaka_Khan wrote: »

Why should those of us who have been playing since day one have to change to accommodate new players? If new players start in any other MMO (lets say WOW) do they have the right to argue that all the older players should have their characters reduced so they are all on even ground? I think not!
Should someone who has more free time be penalized because some one else can only play half as much and not earn as many CP's?

People should just accept the game as it is or go look for another.

How exactly are you hurt by newer players being not that far behind in CPs? (Don't worry, if you're into grinding mindlessly you'll always be ahead of them.)

WoW has implemented multiple ways for their newer and returning players to not feel so drastically unable to catch up and be generally competitive, i.e. have as much fun as grinders/hardcores.

[edit] Added "and returning" WoW players.

I sincerely hope we never get "Buy CP level 500 now!" type mechanics.

It will happen eventually. Just look at what's happened in the short time that we've had the crown store. Mounts used to be per-character, now they are account-wide. Costumes used to be per-character, now they are account-wide. Used to have to grind for motifs, now they are easily accessible to everyone in the crown store. Taking too long to train your mount? Feeding scroll. Taking too long to level your character up? XP scroll. You see where this is headed.....

Gidorick

I know @Akavir_Sentinel... I'm just trying to remain in denial for as long as possible.

jhwilson91

Tanaka_Khan wrote: »

Why should those of us who have been playing since day one have to change to accommodate new players? If new players start in any other MMO (lets say WOW) do they have the right to argue that all the older players should have their characters reduced so they are all on even ground? I think not!
Should someone who has more free time be penalized because some one else can only play half as much and not earn as many CP's?

People should just accept the game as it is or go look for another.

they just buy a max one tho lol

Yasha

Gidorick wrote: »

Four? Where do you see only Four?

I only see four....;)

Btw, why do you think the CP gap is an issue? What effect does it have on the game? What are the downside to having having to "catch up" CP points? Is catching up on CP points different to say catching up on levels/gear/money; if so how?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The only discussion is between like 4 or 5 people here. One of them being me who doesnt want them to waste time screwing with some catch up mechanic hardly anyone wanted or asked for when its been months since we got any new zones. ZOS needs to stop messing with mechanics and start finishing things like orsinium and IC etc.

The only comment from ZOS was a bit ago and said "sometime in the future" they would have some sort of catch up mechanic. As they start to finalize that probably next year sometime THEN the discussion will happen. Right now they do not see this "problem" as a problem.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yasha wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Four? Where do you see only Four?

I only see four....;)

Btw, why do you think the CP gap is an issue? What effect does it have on the game? What are the downside to having having to "catch up" CP points? Is catching up on CP points different to say catching up on levels/gear/money; if so how?

There are actually only three from the past 90 days. One from march and the rest all from 2014.

Gidorick

lol. Thanks for the chuckle @Yasha.

Honestly. I don't personally care about CPs. I'm not, by any means, a competitive player. From what I can tell, the problem with the CP gap is it is going to eventually be quite substantial. If each CP requires 400K XP, and there are 3,600 CP, to get to top CP a player will need to earn 1,440,000,000 or the equivalent of 1,440 Vet Ranks. And people are complaining about 14 Vet Ranks... but I digress.

The concern is in a year or two when people are running about with 1500 CPs and new players try to be competitive with those players in PVP. No matter how much grinding those players do, they will never be able to catch up with the 1500 CP player who is also grinding their next CP.

Catch up mechanics are a reality of online games. You don't want new players looking at PVP with dismay at the impossible task of against those players that have a couple of years behind them.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Why dont we worry about a year or two from now a year or two from now. We have more pressing issues at the moment. Like a lack of content for example. Thats another thread tho.

Nifty2g

All you need to do is make CP an actual progression, somewhat like Alliance Rank, increase the amount of XP needed per Champion Rank

BOOM

nimander99

You guys do know that there are Hard Caps, right??

Gidorick

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Why dont we worry about a year or two from now a year or two from now. We have more pressing issues at the moment. Like a lack of content for example. Thats another thread tho.

I'm bored of discussing the lack of content. Besides, it seems like every time I make a thread on content I think would be nice, I get people posting that there are other things that should be focused on... like balancing the game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

If they dont hurry up and put out some new zones there wont be any problem with catching up. The PC servers will be a ghost town with noone to catch up to.

Gidorick

That pretty much what this concept would do... in effect @Nifty2g. It would also be a dynamically shifting required total, depending on how many CPs the top player has.

There are CP hard caps @nimander99? Besides the 3600 total?