[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul
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• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – March 19, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – March 19, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
TheBastion
✭✭✭
Disclaimer: I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right place. If I am, that's great. If not, I would appreciate the thread moved to the appropriate place. Thank you.
Anyway:
With the advent of the Champion Point system, there are players – myself, included – who have been under the impression that the Veteran Ranks are going to be removed entirely, given the amount of negative feedback in the past about its nature as being grindy, in particular.
However, in the recent previews of the Champion System in ESO Live Episode 8, which aired last December 23, 2014 – that does not seem to be the case. It appears we will be earning Champion Points alongside Veteran Ranks (provided that the characters in question have not yet reached Veteran Rank 14, or whichever cap ZOS may determine for ESO in future updates) as opposed to the new system replacing the old one entirely.
Although the team at ZOS has done a tremendous and outstanding job with listening to and considering player feedback to determine certain outcomes within the game on a developmental basis – I, personally, am of the belief that removing the Veteran Ranks entirely would be a sound path to follow for the future.
I will admit here that some of the concepts and ideas that you, dear reader, will find herein are those that I crafted after having experienced the style and system of other MMORPGs. However, I will not name for the sake of taste and integrity for both ZOS and these particular companies. That said, experiences tend to be the one true path to better understanding something, I’ve come to realize.
But, I digress.
There are many factors which I can elaborate upon but will not do so in this segment else I would run the risk of being redundant. All I can say is that, though this may seem like a radical overhaul idea, I will not be so inconsiderate in my own right to leave it to ZOS to grope in the dark with regard to how they may go about it if they choose to consider and – hopefully – implement it in the future, should it appear favorable for ESO in the long run.
All of those ideas, I have compiled as such:
Level Cap At 50
To get to the nitty-gritty of it, the reason I feel that keeping the level cap at 50 is a more interesting choice, instead of the current Veteran Rank system, is because it would allow for a more horizontal style of progression.
What I mean by horizontal progression is that, at level 50, players will no longer have to worry about an entirely new tier of vertical style progression where they would have to quest and grind for yet another twelve (or fourteen) levels without much reward, save for progression with equipment every three Veteran Ranks or so, with the promise of Veteran Trials and Dungeons in between.
Instead, with this revamp, players will be given the opportunities to run the dungeons, delves and other content that they want at level cap 50 but – much like the present with the Dragonstar Arena – they are given the choice to increase the difficulty as they feel would befit their playstyle, the degree of challenge they desire, or level of competitiveness.
Which leads me to my next point:
World Re-Balancing:
Although I must confess that I have not been an avid follower of the ESO Live series, what I’ve managed to see therein is that the development team at ZOS is always hard at work modifying and re-balancing variables in the world every time a new features comes in, or when skills, stats and abilities have been re-worked to suit old and new content.
With this in mind, it goes without saying that ZOS would ultimately be tasked to re-balance the variables out in the world with regard to levels and statistical imbalances that would come with revamping the Veteran Rank system entirely, to make zones like Craglorn and Upper Craglorn scale to just level 50 instead of the normal VR12-14 that it currently is today.
It is, of course, a grave consideration that balances across the board regarding items, classes, monsters, skills and abilities would be foremost with regard to the system here but that is not to say that I don’t have a few suggestions of my own to help the process along.
Most especially with regard to materials for armour and weapons found only in the Veteran Rank zones. (Calcinium to Voidstone, Kresh to Voidcloth, etc.)
That brings me to:
More Tempering Options:
Back in TESV: Skyrim, the factor that determined how much you improve your equipment was based on how many points you’ve spent in certain areas of the Blacksmithing constellation. That is, you could improve your equipment in increments not unlike the current improvement system on ESO at present.
However, the similarities end there.
In ESO, the temper options range only from Fine, Superior, Epic and Legendary. In Skyrim, however, it went from Fine, Superior, Exquisite, Flawless, Epic, and finally Legendary.
Why is this relevant, you might ask? Well, simply said, removing the Veteran Ranks – as I mentioned before – would pose problems with regard to the VR-tier materials for crafting weapons and armour.
However, by adapting Skyrim’s system of tempering, by adding Exquisite and Flawless (as well as corresponding tempering materials for them) between the Superior and Epic brackets, it basically compensates players as well as giving them opportunities to better strengthen their equipment in certain ways.
For example, ZOS could implement a new mechanic to the Metallurgy, Stitching, and Carpentry passives for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Woodworking respectively. Or perhaps implement a new passive in the skill lines altogether.
It would be that players are only able to temper their gear up to the Fine bracket without putting skill points into this particular passive. One point would afford them the Superior and Exquisite brackets while the next would allow them the Flawless and Epic brackets, while the final point would afford them the ability to temper their gear up to Legendary.
However, as with the other passives, the capacity to be able to put points into this passive depends on the level of Blacksmithing, Clothing and Woodworking the player has. So levelling up one’s skills – as it goes without saying – is still a consideration.
A system like this would allow players the opportunity to progress and improve their gear based upon and with relation to the difficulty of the challenges they intend to face, be it delves, dungeons or trials.
With that said, as I spoke of being able to increase dungeon difficulty on a whim in a topic prior to this one, let’s say that a group of players is able to finish an instance of Blessed Crucible which had its difficulty increased. Where normally, items and refinement would yield tempering materials, completing delves, dungeons and trials with increased difficulty would yield tempering materials in a certain bracket superior to those found from refinement and salvaging equipment.
A normal player, though he has his Blacksmithing passive maxed to allow tempering up to Legendary, only manages to yield tempering materials from Fine to the Exquisite bracket vis-a-vis deconstructed items and refinement. He would need to complete dungeons, delves and trials with increased difficulty to be eligible to obtain tempering materials between the Flawless, Epic, and Legendary bracket as a reward, depending on how difficult his group had tuned the dungeon to.
This system gives the players the opportunity to still be able to improve their gear while encouraging them – and those who play competitively – to further improve their equipment by finishing challenges and difficult dungeons if they so wish. If not, they sacrifice nothing in the process as the extent and relevance of tempering from Flawless to Legendary shines the most when traversing challenging scenarios and dungeons, by the player’s choice – though the added improvements is still a welcome thing outside of these events.
This complicated topic is obviously still subject to many considerations and re-iterations. I merely offer my thoughts, concepts and ideas upon it and defer to you, ZOS, experts of the technicalities that accompany such an undertaking should you choose to accept it.
Moving away from the technicalities of that topic, however, I would like to move on to another topic which opens up to yet another aspect in which equipment may have moderate relevance.
Zone Restrictions and PvE /PvP Niches:
It’s been discussed in some circles that the addition of the War of the Three Banners, the initial faction selection, and the Alliance War PvP mechanic has made ESO deviate from the normal TES formula, no matter how close it feels and seems to be currently with each update that’s come so far.
In previous TES titles, the protagonist(s) are able to explore areas as a neutral hero or mercenary, aiding the people in those areas regardless of there being any present and particular conflict (with the exception of Skyrim further on, but that is still an otherwise mitigated choice).
With regard to PvE content and PvP content, as I open above, I would suggest that each be given their own niches that don’t necessarily encroach upon one another.
In PvE, allow the players to freely explore the zones of the Daggerfall Covenant, Aldmeri Dominion, and Ebonheart Pact as they desire, considering them as adventurers, much like The Vestige, whose one great desire is to help the beleaguered settlements riven by the Alliance War and the Soulburst.
Give them the choice to decide on which adventures and storylines they would like to undertake without barring them from exploring other avenues, as it takes away the so-preferred sandbox element that so many roleplayers and story-driven gamers yearn for but find absent in MMORPGs today.
On the other hand, for Alliance War and PvP, consider the player as a mercenary who chooses which Alliance he would like to fight for and have him commit to the choice much like a soldier or volunteer would be drafted into the military. Likewise, offer them the choice to change sides, but at a cost.
However, upon leaving the principal battleground of Cyrodiil (in this case, to the PvE zones), he returns to being the adventurer who is free to explore as he wishes – until he returns to Cyrodiil to fight in the Alliance War again.
With that in mind, this gives the diverse races across Tamriel, regardless of the area they’re currently in, a more relevant position. At present, we have NPC characters that have rumor dialogue options when you pass them that are unique to their race. Using this as a player, you can tell what troubles plague a particular race and where.
An example: Say you’re a character who chose to do the main questline of Glenumbra in the Daggerfall Covenant zones and you want to figure out which adventure you’d like to go on next. On your adventure in Glenumbra – or after all of the quest elements are done – and you wander into town, you might hear a travelling Dunmer merchant talking about troubles of an organization called the Maulborn in Deshaan. As the troubles appear to be similar to the one Glenumbra suffered, you opt to check out what goes on in Deshaan. Personally, I feel that this would give further immersion to the game with urging you to listen to NPC dialogue and rumor-mongering to best figure out where to put your skills next.
As a roleplayer, you’d have the opportunity to progress your character through the quests that you do – within reason, of course. None of us are truly the penultimate Vestige, after all.
Currently, when you pass NPC characters, they already recognize you for your achievements in a particular questline, unique and exclusive to their race or faction. Why not turn that around and give them options for aspiring adventurers – who haven’t done these questlines – to point them to it as breadcrumbs? Even as a passing quip?
If I might use Skyrim as an example, it's not unlike those guards you pass, Imperial or Stormcloak, who suggest you join them, and then a breadcrumb quest appears in your quest log, giving you directions and a brief summary of what quests might await you. In ESO, however, it has room to diversify with rumors not coming just from the guards but from townsfolk, merchants and travelers as well.
I feel that doing this would allow the elements that made the TES games iconic to flourish within ESO without having to compromise any of the existing systems set in place. In addition, it adds a certain flavor for roleplayers in the myriad zones to interact with one another when not fighting in PvP and the Alliance War, turning ESO further into an immersive, living, breathing world without barriers save for those that are within reason for a sandbox-styled MMORPG, while still being able to retain the myriad questlines that already exist.
Next, I would like to expound upon the remedies and fixes that can aid the advent of the removal of zone restrictions – particularly Level Scaling.
Level Scaling:
What does one mean when they say Level Scaling?
It is a system implemented in an MMO whereby a player of a certain level, when entering a zone in which the effective level bracket is lower than his own, has his effectiveness reduced to that level bracket in terms of statistics (i.e. Health, magicka, stamina, damage) to give the monsters in the area a fighting chance, offering challenge to the player and keeping him on his toes.
To keep gameplay engaging no matter your level.
Upon the removal of zone restrictions, players are able to choose which zones they would like to explore, not necessarily following a linear path between the Alliance zones. A player may choose to finish Davon’s Watch on the Ebonheart Pact from level 1-15, then travel next to Stormhaven in the Daggerfall Covenant zones for 16-24, for instance.
Level scaling comes into play for those players who would like to go back and experience the zones which no longer fit within their level bracket, still providing them with a sufficient amount of experience though less than the zones that have levels that are within their bracket.
A character, for example, who has finished every zone in the Aldmeri Dominion and has reached level 50 would like to travel and experience the Ebonheart Pact. When he starts from Davon’s Watch, though his level still remains at 50, his effectiveness in combat is scaled to that of a level 5 character’s, or another bracket depending on the subzone of his current questing zone.
However, said character would still be able to benefit from the bonuses from his equipment. It will be his edge or advantage over a newly-made character but not to the extent that it will make him overpowered and destroy enemies with a single blow – unless considerably within reason.
Lastly, I would like to talk about…
Weapon Gilding:
Though I use the term gilding, as it is the proper term used in metallurgy, it is just basically the ability for players to apply dye to their weapons, shields, bows and staves much like ZOS has allowed at present with Armor Dye when the system arrived in Update 3.
There isn’t much to expound on this particular topic as it’s self-explanatory.
Miscellaneous:
Of a few I’d like to tackle briefly, I would like to make note of the fact that weapons disappear when riding a mount. Though I understand there are addons out there that help to refresh it, it’s merely for client-side and I don’t personally see the merit or logic for equipped weapons to disappear when mounting one’s horse.
Perhaps a change of this might be a consideration. As a player, I do enjoy seeing my weapons equipped when riding my horse.
Closing Remarks:
In closing, these are the ideas I have which I feel may benefit ESO and shape it to become a powerhouse of an MMO, surpassing the boundaries of those that came before it. I hope, pray and anticipate that ZOS will, at the very least, consider these points and it would hearten me – and likely many others – if even just a few of these were acknowledged—better yet, put into the game.
Thank you very much. [T]7
Edited by TheBastion on January 19, 2015 5:18AM Anyway:
With the advent of the Champion Point system, there are players – myself, included – who have been under the impression that the Veteran Ranks are going to be removed entirely, given the amount of negative feedback in the past about its nature as being grindy, in particular.
However, in the recent previews of the Champion System in ESO Live Episode 8, which aired last December 23, 2014 – that does not seem to be the case. It appears we will be earning Champion Points alongside Veteran Ranks (provided that the characters in question have not yet reached Veteran Rank 14, or whichever cap ZOS may determine for ESO in future updates) as opposed to the new system replacing the old one entirely.
Although the team at ZOS has done a tremendous and outstanding job with listening to and considering player feedback to determine certain outcomes within the game on a developmental basis – I, personally, am of the belief that removing the Veteran Ranks entirely would be a sound path to follow for the future.
I will admit here that some of the concepts and ideas that you, dear reader, will find herein are those that I crafted after having experienced the style and system of other MMORPGs. However, I will not name for the sake of taste and integrity for both ZOS and these particular companies. That said, experiences tend to be the one true path to better understanding something, I’ve come to realize.
But, I digress.
There are many factors which I can elaborate upon but will not do so in this segment else I would run the risk of being redundant. All I can say is that, though this may seem like a radical overhaul idea, I will not be so inconsiderate in my own right to leave it to ZOS to grope in the dark with regard to how they may go about it if they choose to consider and – hopefully – implement it in the future, should it appear favorable for ESO in the long run.
All of those ideas, I have compiled as such:
Level Cap At 50
To get to the nitty-gritty of it, the reason I feel that keeping the level cap at 50 is a more interesting choice, instead of the current Veteran Rank system, is because it would allow for a more horizontal style of progression.
What I mean by horizontal progression is that, at level 50, players will no longer have to worry about an entirely new tier of vertical style progression where they would have to quest and grind for yet another twelve (or fourteen) levels without much reward, save for progression with equipment every three Veteran Ranks or so, with the promise of Veteran Trials and Dungeons in between.
Instead, with this revamp, players will be given the opportunities to run the dungeons, delves and other content that they want at level cap 50 but – much like the present with the Dragonstar Arena – they are given the choice to increase the difficulty as they feel would befit their playstyle, the degree of challenge they desire, or level of competitiveness.
Which leads me to my next point:
World Re-Balancing:
Although I must confess that I have not been an avid follower of the ESO Live series, what I’ve managed to see therein is that the development team at ZOS is always hard at work modifying and re-balancing variables in the world every time a new features comes in, or when skills, stats and abilities have been re-worked to suit old and new content.
With this in mind, it goes without saying that ZOS would ultimately be tasked to re-balance the variables out in the world with regard to levels and statistical imbalances that would come with revamping the Veteran Rank system entirely, to make zones like Craglorn and Upper Craglorn scale to just level 50 instead of the normal VR12-14 that it currently is today.
It is, of course, a grave consideration that balances across the board regarding items, classes, monsters, skills and abilities would be foremost with regard to the system here but that is not to say that I don’t have a few suggestions of my own to help the process along.
Most especially with regard to materials for armour and weapons found only in the Veteran Rank zones. (Calcinium to Voidstone, Kresh to Voidcloth, etc.)
That brings me to:
More Tempering Options:
Back in TESV: Skyrim, the factor that determined how much you improve your equipment was based on how many points you’ve spent in certain areas of the Blacksmithing constellation. That is, you could improve your equipment in increments not unlike the current improvement system on ESO at present.
However, the similarities end there.
In ESO, the temper options range only from Fine, Superior, Epic and Legendary. In Skyrim, however, it went from Fine, Superior, Exquisite, Flawless, Epic, and finally Legendary.
Why is this relevant, you might ask? Well, simply said, removing the Veteran Ranks – as I mentioned before – would pose problems with regard to the VR-tier materials for crafting weapons and armour.
However, by adapting Skyrim’s system of tempering, by adding Exquisite and Flawless (as well as corresponding tempering materials for them) between the Superior and Epic brackets, it basically compensates players as well as giving them opportunities to better strengthen their equipment in certain ways.
For example, ZOS could implement a new mechanic to the Metallurgy, Stitching, and Carpentry passives for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Woodworking respectively. Or perhaps implement a new passive in the skill lines altogether.
It would be that players are only able to temper their gear up to the Fine bracket without putting skill points into this particular passive. One point would afford them the Superior and Exquisite brackets while the next would allow them the Flawless and Epic brackets, while the final point would afford them the ability to temper their gear up to Legendary.
However, as with the other passives, the capacity to be able to put points into this passive depends on the level of Blacksmithing, Clothing and Woodworking the player has. So levelling up one’s skills – as it goes without saying – is still a consideration.
A system like this would allow players the opportunity to progress and improve their gear based upon and with relation to the difficulty of the challenges they intend to face, be it delves, dungeons or trials.
With that said, as I spoke of being able to increase dungeon difficulty on a whim in a topic prior to this one, let’s say that a group of players is able to finish an instance of Blessed Crucible which had its difficulty increased. Where normally, items and refinement would yield tempering materials, completing delves, dungeons and trials with increased difficulty would yield tempering materials in a certain bracket superior to those found from refinement and salvaging equipment.
A normal player, though he has his Blacksmithing passive maxed to allow tempering up to Legendary, only manages to yield tempering materials from Fine to the Exquisite bracket vis-a-vis deconstructed items and refinement. He would need to complete dungeons, delves and trials with increased difficulty to be eligible to obtain tempering materials between the Flawless, Epic, and Legendary bracket as a reward, depending on how difficult his group had tuned the dungeon to.
This system gives the players the opportunity to still be able to improve their gear while encouraging them – and those who play competitively – to further improve their equipment by finishing challenges and difficult dungeons if they so wish. If not, they sacrifice nothing in the process as the extent and relevance of tempering from Flawless to Legendary shines the most when traversing challenging scenarios and dungeons, by the player’s choice – though the added improvements is still a welcome thing outside of these events.
This complicated topic is obviously still subject to many considerations and re-iterations. I merely offer my thoughts, concepts and ideas upon it and defer to you, ZOS, experts of the technicalities that accompany such an undertaking should you choose to accept it.
Moving away from the technicalities of that topic, however, I would like to move on to another topic which opens up to yet another aspect in which equipment may have moderate relevance.
Zone Restrictions and PvE /PvP Niches:
It’s been discussed in some circles that the addition of the War of the Three Banners, the initial faction selection, and the Alliance War PvP mechanic has made ESO deviate from the normal TES formula, no matter how close it feels and seems to be currently with each update that’s come so far.
In previous TES titles, the protagonist(s) are able to explore areas as a neutral hero or mercenary, aiding the people in those areas regardless of there being any present and particular conflict (with the exception of Skyrim further on, but that is still an otherwise mitigated choice).
With regard to PvE content and PvP content, as I open above, I would suggest that each be given their own niches that don’t necessarily encroach upon one another.
In PvE, allow the players to freely explore the zones of the Daggerfall Covenant, Aldmeri Dominion, and Ebonheart Pact as they desire, considering them as adventurers, much like The Vestige, whose one great desire is to help the beleaguered settlements riven by the Alliance War and the Soulburst.
Give them the choice to decide on which adventures and storylines they would like to undertake without barring them from exploring other avenues, as it takes away the so-preferred sandbox element that so many roleplayers and story-driven gamers yearn for but find absent in MMORPGs today.
On the other hand, for Alliance War and PvP, consider the player as a mercenary who chooses which Alliance he would like to fight for and have him commit to the choice much like a soldier or volunteer would be drafted into the military. Likewise, offer them the choice to change sides, but at a cost.
However, upon leaving the principal battleground of Cyrodiil (in this case, to the PvE zones), he returns to being the adventurer who is free to explore as he wishes – until he returns to Cyrodiil to fight in the Alliance War again.
With that in mind, this gives the diverse races across Tamriel, regardless of the area they’re currently in, a more relevant position. At present, we have NPC characters that have rumor dialogue options when you pass them that are unique to their race. Using this as a player, you can tell what troubles plague a particular race and where.
An example: Say you’re a character who chose to do the main questline of Glenumbra in the Daggerfall Covenant zones and you want to figure out which adventure you’d like to go on next. On your adventure in Glenumbra – or after all of the quest elements are done – and you wander into town, you might hear a travelling Dunmer merchant talking about troubles of an organization called the Maulborn in Deshaan. As the troubles appear to be similar to the one Glenumbra suffered, you opt to check out what goes on in Deshaan. Personally, I feel that this would give further immersion to the game with urging you to listen to NPC dialogue and rumor-mongering to best figure out where to put your skills next.
As a roleplayer, you’d have the opportunity to progress your character through the quests that you do – within reason, of course. None of us are truly the penultimate Vestige, after all.
Currently, when you pass NPC characters, they already recognize you for your achievements in a particular questline, unique and exclusive to their race or faction. Why not turn that around and give them options for aspiring adventurers – who haven’t done these questlines – to point them to it as breadcrumbs? Even as a passing quip?
If I might use Skyrim as an example, it's not unlike those guards you pass, Imperial or Stormcloak, who suggest you join them, and then a breadcrumb quest appears in your quest log, giving you directions and a brief summary of what quests might await you. In ESO, however, it has room to diversify with rumors not coming just from the guards but from townsfolk, merchants and travelers as well.
I feel that doing this would allow the elements that made the TES games iconic to flourish within ESO without having to compromise any of the existing systems set in place. In addition, it adds a certain flavor for roleplayers in the myriad zones to interact with one another when not fighting in PvP and the Alliance War, turning ESO further into an immersive, living, breathing world without barriers save for those that are within reason for a sandbox-styled MMORPG, while still being able to retain the myriad questlines that already exist.
Next, I would like to expound upon the remedies and fixes that can aid the advent of the removal of zone restrictions – particularly Level Scaling.
Level Scaling:
What does one mean when they say Level Scaling?
It is a system implemented in an MMO whereby a player of a certain level, when entering a zone in which the effective level bracket is lower than his own, has his effectiveness reduced to that level bracket in terms of statistics (i.e. Health, magicka, stamina, damage) to give the monsters in the area a fighting chance, offering challenge to the player and keeping him on his toes.
To keep gameplay engaging no matter your level.
Upon the removal of zone restrictions, players are able to choose which zones they would like to explore, not necessarily following a linear path between the Alliance zones. A player may choose to finish Davon’s Watch on the Ebonheart Pact from level 1-15, then travel next to Stormhaven in the Daggerfall Covenant zones for 16-24, for instance.
Level scaling comes into play for those players who would like to go back and experience the zones which no longer fit within their level bracket, still providing them with a sufficient amount of experience though less than the zones that have levels that are within their bracket.
A character, for example, who has finished every zone in the Aldmeri Dominion and has reached level 50 would like to travel and experience the Ebonheart Pact. When he starts from Davon’s Watch, though his level still remains at 50, his effectiveness in combat is scaled to that of a level 5 character’s, or another bracket depending on the subzone of his current questing zone.
However, said character would still be able to benefit from the bonuses from his equipment. It will be his edge or advantage over a newly-made character but not to the extent that it will make him overpowered and destroy enemies with a single blow – unless considerably within reason.
Lastly, I would like to talk about…
Weapon Gilding:
Though I use the term gilding, as it is the proper term used in metallurgy, it is just basically the ability for players to apply dye to their weapons, shields, bows and staves much like ZOS has allowed at present with Armor Dye when the system arrived in Update 3.
There isn’t much to expound on this particular topic as it’s self-explanatory.
Miscellaneous:
Of a few I’d like to tackle briefly, I would like to make note of the fact that weapons disappear when riding a mount. Though I understand there are addons out there that help to refresh it, it’s merely for client-side and I don’t personally see the merit or logic for equipped weapons to disappear when mounting one’s horse.
Perhaps a change of this might be a consideration. As a player, I do enjoy seeing my weapons equipped when riding my horse.
Closing Remarks:
In closing, these are the ideas I have which I feel may benefit ESO and shape it to become a powerhouse of an MMO, surpassing the boundaries of those that came before it. I hope, pray and anticipate that ZOS will, at the very least, consider these points and it would hearten me – and likely many others – if even just a few of these were acknowledged—better yet, put into the game.
Thank you very much. [T]7
[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion
22
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MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's a lot of ground to cover. I certainly am in favor of the majority of your suggestions but also realize this would be a HUGE revamping of the game at this point and so, alas, I do not hold out much hope.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reading more about the Champion System would have cut this post in half.
They are doing away with Veteran Ranks. They just aren't doing away with them in this patch. They want to make sure the new system is somewhat balanced before completely transitioning.----
Murray?2 -
TheBastion✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Reading more about the Champion System would have cut this post in half.
They are doing away with Veteran Ranks. They just aren't doing away with them in this patch. They want to make sure the new system is somewhat balanced before completely transitioning.
Mea culpa. I did say I'm not particularly well-read or an avid follower of the ESO Live episodes.
Either way, it's good and reassuring to know that to be the case. However, I suppose we can then see the 'other half' of my suggestions as a possible approach to that particular undertaking.Edited by TheBastion on January 19, 2015 1:49PM[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
burningcrow✭✭✭I like all the suggestions but I really like that Level Scaling. I'm not sure why this wasn't in the game from the start. It gives somebody the feeling of adventure instead of a feeling of a chore.0 -
TheBastion✭✭✭burningcrow wrote: »I like all the suggestions but I really like that Level Scaling. I'm not sure why this wasn't in the game from the start. It gives somebody the feeling of adventure instead of a feeling of a chore.
Personally, I've only managed to see one MMO pull that off, but I won't be mentioning names. I'm not sure about others, but that particular MMO has made questing in zones engaging as you're not guaranteed a kill with one strike, even if you're a max level with epic/legendary gear.
It, as you say, does add that sense of adventure that keeps things engaging.
[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
TheBastion✭✭✭I do so dislike double-posting in forums. But, I wouldn't want to risk my suggestion being plunged so far into the archives. For myself and for others who may have opinions they'd like to share on the ideas posted above.
Please, help this post along. A number of them may have been posed redundant by my ignorance on a particular detail, but the remaining ones still have the potential to be alternate approaches to the path already being developed.Edited by TheBastion on January 20, 2015 10:43AM[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭vet ranks are gonna be removed in the next phase of champ system fyi OPHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)0 -
TheBastion✭✭✭bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »vet ranks are gonna be removed in the next phase of champ system fyi OP
It's been mentioned in a previous comment. Thank you all the same, though.
[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
Anon90✭To be completely honest, I rarely spend time reading player suggestions however reading through this was well-worth it. I honestly agree with all the points because I rarely find levelling to be enjoyable if I am to be fully honest and the fact I am forced to level even further once I've hit level 50 just to get more gear is quite daunting.
I specifically like the idea about visiting other locations based on rumours you hear.Edited by Anon90 on January 20, 2015 1:24PM1 -
TheBastion✭✭✭I specifically like the idea about visiting other locations based on rumours you hear.
Yes, well. I feel that it ties in well with the concept and mechanics of Skyrim which came before ESO. People would gossip and a place would be updated on your map, provided that they said something about a particular place.
When guards speak of rumors, the same tends to happen or a breadcrumb quest appears in your quest log.
I understand that there may be variables that could factor in with regard to difficulty or ease of implementing it but I do feel that, like Skyrim, it adds a level of further immersion.
To be fair, the game is immersive enough as it is. But to improve it is always a welcome thing.
[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
Ixtyr✭✭✭✭✭Strongly dislike the use of "bumpage", but considering that the post is actually one of the most well-written and thoughtful scripts I've seen in all of my years of forum moderating and browsing, I suppose I can forgive.
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I do like most of what has been put down here, but I will say that I see some potential problems with your suggestions - two, to be precise. The first is in relation to gear and crafting, the second to how your proposed "mercenary" system would function.
To begin, when ZOS chooses to restructure and rebalance the Veteran Levels and remove them, gear will be a big hurdle they need to overcome. I agree that your system could make that easier. That said, you propose that a system like this would involve forcing players to participate in high-level PvE content in order to obtain the crafting materials to help improve gear. That's fine - but I do hope that if they did this, they would include some form of ability to obtain those items as rewards through PvP in Cyrodiil/Imperial City as well. Perhaps at a lesser drop rate, mind you, but let it still be possible. Farming for materials in PvE zones like Craglorn is hardly an enjoyable or rewarding experience, and I should think that ZOS would prefer to encourage players to participate in the legitimate content they've worked so tirelessly to develop rather than simply grinding mobs or mindlessly farming materials.
Now, as far as the Mercenary system would work...are you proposing that players are able to switch between which of the three factions they would represent? Personally, I would be extremely wary of such a system - while it could be nice to allow you to switch when you leave, faction imbalance is already an enormous issue in Cyrodiil. Daggerfall is perpetually behind in terms of active players, and there's no way of knowing if this would help or drastically hurt that issue. Additionally, we've seen an almost uncanny tendency among players of all three factions to jump ship and bounce around from campaign to campaign in any effort to gain some form of advantage, be it getting "buff" servers or trading Emperor flips - being able to switch factions would, even if the cost was extremely high, only make that issue far worse, as far as I am concerned.
Regardless, it's something interesting to think about. From a PvE/RP standpoint, I like almost everything here - but let's be real, PvP is the big draw to this game, especially at high levels, and so balancing issues are always, always going to have to be heavily considered ahead of anything else.Ixtyr Falavir - Bosmer Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant
Reya Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion
Kaylin Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Ebonheart Pact
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Alyna Falavir - Dunmer Dragonknight - Daggerfall Covenant
Aernah Falavir - Altmer Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Aranis Falavir - Bosmer Sorcerer - Daggerfall Covenant
Aerin Falavir - Bosmer Warden - Daggerfall Covenant
Rhys Falavir - Orc Sorcerer - Aldmeri Dominion
Rhiannon Falavir - Altmer Templar - Aldmeri Dominion
Nenara Falavir - Argonian Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
Neera Falavir - Orc Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
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Vehemence - Officer
Nightfighters - Member
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Ømni - Guild Master (Retired)
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Moderator of /r/elderscrollsonline0 -
ZOS_TristanK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thanks for the thorough suggestions, @TheBastion! We'll be sure to pass this up the chain. Also, we removed your bumps because Code of Conduct.
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Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Very nice post! I really like your suggestions and would love to know if they Dev's like it too. But that's wishful thinking I suppose.0 -
someuser✭✭✭✭I enjoy the well worded post as well.
The only issue I see (though I love the idea) is, due the lack of true variety in NPC missions, how do you give an adventurer "direction" when he or she is traveling the realm? In other words, if I turned this game on for the first time (like many will on the 17th of March and many more when the console version releases) what would motivate me when choosing my missions (assuming we were no longer contained by Alliance and Level)?
As it stands right now, the main motivation in finishing missions is unlocking the next zone to "progress". Many of the missions, while well worded and voice acted, get repetitive for all save a few HARDCORE rpg'ers / enthusiasts.
While I love the idea of "adventurer" and "mercenary", I simply question if there is enough depth and substance, as the game exists today, for such a concept. If, however, the technical wizards at ZoS could find a way to implement said idea, I would be all for it
To make ESO look and feel like a PC MMO check out the following:
PhinixUI addon-powered interface for ESO0 -
jeevin✭✭✭✭✭Nice post Op. There's a lot of reading and I don't agree with everything but it's well thought out and well written +awesome0 -
Drazhar14✭✭✭✭✭Good write up OP. The sooner they remove Veteran Ranks, the better. I think capping the max level at 50 and adding more horizontal progression would better fit an Elder Scrolls game. Especially with the addition of DLC zones. If all level 50 zones are balanced the same, this will open up freedom for the player to quest through any zone they wish at any time. Adventure (group) zones would be balanced to be tougher than regular zones obviously. Upon completing the main quest, both other alliance zones should open immediately and the player can chose which to start with. Or even just skip them and go straight to Craglorn or other DLC zones. Horizontal progression allows so much more freedom, and the player can always seek to craft new gear styles introduced with new content. The Champion system will provide that continuous sense of progression. I hate end game vertical progression and constantly upgrading to better gear, which introduces a long term power creep which would take away difficulty of all content in the game.
As for crafting, I think the number of tiers is good as is (white green blue purple yellow). However, adding a new tier could be interesting, and materials used for that tier could be gained from unique challenges, such as dungeons like you said. Upgrading your gear to this new tier could be a super long term goal based more on playing the game/achievements and less on random hireling mails/resource nodes/crafting writs. What to do with the veteran 1-14 crafting materials is a good question. Maybe they could be converted into materials used to dye weapons or upgrade to this new tier of gear? I would really like to see weapon be dye-able.
It would be cool, that after waking up from your Cold Harbor escape, you are free to travel to any alliance starting area and quest within each faction in order to decide which one you would like to represent in PvP. Would definitely add more freedom like a true Elder Scrolls game, but an overhaul like that would be difficult at this point.
I like the idea of level scaling. It worked well in Guild Wars 2 and prevented players from being super overpowered in low level zones. With level scaling, they could also add more reasons to revisit previous zones (think thieves guild and dark brotherhood). Would also prevent high level players trolling low level zones with the PvP justice system element when that comes out.
Weapons on mounts? I'd like to see a mounted combat system. At the very least, the ability to perform light/heavy attacks and block similar to Skyrim. They are making Rapid Maneuver castable while mounted, so a mounted skill line doesn't seem too far-fetched.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sorry, but level scaling is pretty much the worst thing you can add to a game.
All level scaling achieves, is it undermines your character progression, essentially making it meaningless; "why am I leveling up? Am I becoming stronger at all? I don't see any difference."
It also serves to eradicate all sense of danger from the world.
There's a good reason the vast majority of people still consider Morrowind to be the best Elder Scrolls title.
In fact, what I'd like to see ZOS add is high level alcoves in lower level zones. Areas, which you'd pass as a low level and think "uh oh, I better come back here later!", adding a sense of danger & excitement to the game, rather than just steamrolling one zone after another, trying not to fall asleep in the process.Edited by DDuke on February 27, 2015 7:29PM4 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not seeing anything in the op that isn't already the case in one form or another, except scaling to open world questing zones (which will be done for some of the paid DLC eventually). Everything you describe is basically shuffling how things are done for the sake of "change" that doesn't really affect anything, to be honest. I could break it down if you don't get what I mean, but for now I'll save the typing. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Beowulf_McCallum✭✭✭I agree with @DDuke Give us a reason to return to these early zones....something like the alcove idea, or dynamic events.
I just hate the concept of outleveling a part of this virtual world, I love the IP too much for that1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sorry, but level scaling is pretty much the worst thing you can add to a game.
<snip>
There's a good reason the vast majority of people still consider Morrowind to be the best Elder Scrolls title.
In fact, what I'd like to see ZOS add is high level alcoves in lower level zones. Areas, which you'd pass as a low level and think "uh oh, I better come back here later!", adding a sense of danger & excitement to the game, rather than just steamrolling one zone after another, trying not to fall asleep in the process.
Yes, absolutely.
This puts me in mind of the first time I ran across Fungal Grotto; being new to MMOs and relatively new to ESO I wasn't clear on the idea that you needed a 'group' in order to do this public dungeon. My spouse and I adventure together, we were a couple of levels above the "official" rating of the area and so we thought we could just swoop in, no problem.
Yes.... problems. And wonder - it's great having part of the world that is "too tough for now". And it's part of the joy of progress and adventure to come back later and achieve success!
Other suggestions:
I'd like to see the spawns/nodes (whatever the heck you call them) of plants/alchemy items be more related to the world setting. Like lush items in lush areas and shrub/scrawny stuff in dryer areas. Yes, this does hark back to Morrowind. I will never think it's appropriate to "find" guar eggs in the Aldmeri Dominion.
Another Idea that might be pulled from Morrowind would be factions. A character might gain or lose faction points according to what he/she does, and this could be reflected in NPC reactions/ prices/ possibly even quest line options (just as intimidate and persuade effect things now).Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
TheBastion✭✭✭Glad to see some constructive feedback in this thread, not to mention acknowledgement from one of the greens. (Thanks, @ZOS_TristanK ! And sorry for the excessive bumpage! >_<;)
As it stands, I've made a disclaimer that these suggestions of mine are merely possible ones that ZOS could choose to implement. At the end of the day, it stands that ZOS has more of the processing/brainstorming power to set these into motion if they wish since it's still their game to develop.
Ultimately, the pace and tone of the thread as of now is a very good one.
In fact, I encourage others - like the ones who've posted above me - to share their own critiques and suggestions of what they'd like to see implemented, in context of my original post.
Do you guys have any changes you'd like to make? Clarifications? Additions? Sky's the limit!
Let's be heard! \[T]/
Moving on, I would just like to answer a few of the comments above which I found striking:Now, as far as the Mercenary system would work...are you proposing that players are able to switch between which of the three factions they would represent? Personally, I would be extremely wary of such a system - while it could be nice to allow you to switch when you leave, faction imbalance is already an enormous issue in Cyrodiil. Daggerfall is perpetually behind in terms of active players, and there's no way of knowing if this would help or drastically hurt that issue. Additionally, we've seen an almost uncanny tendency among players of all three factions to jump ship and bounce around from campaign to campaign in any effort to gain some form of advantage, be it getting "buff" servers or trading Emperor flips - being able to switch factions would, even if the cost was extremely high, only make that issue far worse, as far as I am concerned.
Regardless, it's something interesting to think about. From a PvE/RP standpoint, I like almost everything here - but let's be real, PvP is the big draw to this game, especially at high levels, and so balancing issues are always, always going to have to be heavily considered ahead of anything else.
@Ixtyr
I would have said something particularly about not being specific about the cost to change factions being a great one, but you seem to have tackled it and offer a fair and valid point of contention for it.
I suppose we will just have to see what ZOS could cook up in terms of implementing it if they choose to explore this particular avenue.DDuke wrote:Sorry, but level scaling is pretty much the worst thing you can add to a game.
All level scaling achieves, is it undermines your character progression, essentially making it meaningless; "why am I leveling up? Am I becoming stronger at all? I don't see any difference."
It also serves to eradicate all sense of danger from the world.
There's a good reason the vast majority of people still consider Morrowind to be the best Elder Scrolls title.
In fact, what I'd like to see ZOS add is high level alcoves in lower level zones. Areas, which you'd pass as a low level and think "uh oh, I better come back here later!", adding a sense of danger & excitement to the game, rather than just steamrolling one zone after another, trying not to fall asleep in the process.
@DDuke
As far as level scaling goes: I suppose this comes from a personal bias and experience on seeing such a mechanic done and done well on another MMO that I've had the pleasure of playing.
I don't believe that it undermines your sense of progression as a player character. If anything, the system will remind you - as a player - that just because you're already a certain level does not necessarily mean that everything below your cap has to die in one blow/spell/ability/etc.
I am of the belief that such a system would help keep the gameplay engaging insofar as you can't breeze through a zone without expecting some resistance.
Moving on to another point to rebut your statement about level scaling undermining your progression:
If I may take a quote from my original post:TheBastion wrote:However, said character would still be able to benefit from the bonuses from his equipment. It will be his edge or advantage over a newly-made character but not to the extent that it will make him overpowered and destroy enemies with a single blow – unless considerably within reason.
I feel that you've read that part, but simply forgot/skimmed through as the length of my post seems to be a point of interest in the past few comments here.
This is my answer to your claim that progression is undermined by level scaling.
You are a level 50 fighting in a level 5-15 zone. True, your effectiveness is reduced. However, you still benefit from your gear and whatever enchantments/improvements/traits/set bonuses you've placed upon them.
I don't intend to debase or flame anybody for their opinions but, unless you're a very horrible player who got to level 50 by sheer dumb luck, I don't see how a little challenge from a low level zone - with your effectiveness reduced to it - should be something to be up in arms about.
Lastly:Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »I agree with @DDuke Give us a reason to return to these early zones....something like the alcove idea, or dynamic events.
I just hate the concept of outleveling a part of this virtual world, I love the IP too much for that
@Beowulf_McCallum
Personally, I feel that the concept of dynamic events could be tied into the zones, even within the context of level scaling. It's been done before, after all, and I have every confidence that ZOS will be able to do the same. It's their game, their rules. They know what works, what might, what probably won't but could fix.
For now, that's my two cents.
Again, thank you for sharing your opinions and may you continue to do so! [T]7Edited by TheBastion on March 1, 2015 9:18AM[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
ZeroNeonix✭✭To allow free roaming between all zones and factions as a neutral adventurer would require a lot of changes to the quests. Many are meant to be done in a certain order, and many involve fighting off enemy invaders. It would be a complicated revamp that would basically reinvent the game, and I'm not sure ZOS is up to the task.
I do like the idea of additional tempers. I've been wondering what ZOS would do with the vet level materials when vets would no longer exist. This would fix the issue, and the higher tier materials could be converted into the new tempers rather than being deleted or downgraded to the level 50 tier items.1 -
Caroloces✭✭✭✭✭This is the kind of post that makes me have a greater faith in the validity of ideas in this forum - constructive, respectful, and thoughtful.
Thanks, OP.Now, as far as the Mercenary system would work...are you proposing that players are able to switch between which of the three factions they would represent? Personally, I would be extremely wary of such a system - while it could be nice to allow you to switch when you leave, faction imbalance is already an enormous issue in Cyrodiil. Daggerfall is perpetually behind in terms of active players, and there's no way of knowing if this would help or drastically hurt that issue. Additionally, we've seen an almost uncanny tendency among players of all three factions to jump ship and bounce around from campaign to campaign in any effort to gain some form of advantage, be it getting "buff" servers or trading Emperor flips - being able to switch factions would, even if the cost was extremely high, only make that issue far worse, as far as I am concerned.
The Mercenary idea does appeal to me because it falls into that independent kind of "rogue-like" character that embarks on Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood quest lines which will be hopefully coming to eso sometime in the future. To respond to Ixtyr's concerns, I wonder if there might be some mechanic in the game to protect against abuse of the sort he mentions. Perhaps becoming a mercenary would be an outgrowth of the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood quest lines, much like Cadwell's silver and gold become available after the main story. Also, keep in mind that mercenaries are paid warriors. A mercenary might be offered a certain amount of gold for assisting a faction in PVP, and if a particular faction was behind in terms of active players, the amount of gold offered would be substantially larger for the mercenary to aid that particular faction. I could also envision this concept as a further extension of the Justice system where the unscrupulous mercenary, in order to atone for the crimes he's committed in a particular zone or faction, needs to shed blood in battle for the glorious cause of that faction.1 -
TheBastion✭✭✭This is the kind of post that makes me have a greater faith in the validity of ideas in this forum - constructive, respectful, and thoughtful.
Thanks, OP.
The Mercenary idea does appeal to me because it falls into that independent kind of "rogue-like" character that embarks on Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood quest lines which will be hopefully coming to eso sometime in the future. To respond to Ixtyr's concerns, I wonder if there might be some mechanic in the game to protect against abuse of the sort he mentions. Perhaps becoming a mercenary would be an outgrowth of the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood quest lines, much like Cadwell's silver and gold become available after the main story. Also, keep in mind that mercenaries are paid warriors. A mercenary might be offered a certain amount of gold for assisting a faction in PVP, and if a particular faction was behind in terms of active players, the amount of gold offered would be substantially larger for the mercenary to aid that particular faction. I could also envision this concept as a further extension of the Justice system where the unscrupulous mercenary, in order to atone for the crimes he's committed in a particular zone or faction, needs to shed blood in battle for the glorious cause of that faction.
@Caroloces
The bolded part is great and, I must admit, something I had not thought of in terms of @Ixtyr 's concerns. The idea of offering incentives to the mercenaries to side with an underdog faction for a more proportionate sum of gold/rewards is a fair and valid way to ensure that balance is maintained between the three banners instead of there being an insubstantial amount of players in one while an overpopulated one simply steamrolls over the others.
Exquisite idea and very well done. I like this.
Let's keep it up!
Edited by TheBastion on March 1, 2015 9:12PM[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheBastion wrote: »
@DDuke
As far as level scaling goes: I suppose this comes from a personal bias and experience on seeing such a mechanic done and done well on another MMO that I've had the pleasure of playing.
I don't believe that it undermines your sense of progression as a player character. If anything, the system will remind you - as a player - that just because you're already a certain level does not necessarily mean that everything below your cap has to die in one blow/spell/ability/etc.
I am of the belief that such a system would help keep the gameplay engaging insofar as you can't breeze through a zone without expecting some resistance.
Moving on to another point to rebut your statement about level scaling undermining your progression:
If I may take a quote from my original post:
I feel that you've read that part, but simply forgot/skimmed through as the length of my post seems to be a point of interest in the past few comments here.
This is my answer to your claim that progression is undermined by level scaling.
You are a level 50 fighting in a level 5-15 zone. True, your effectiveness is reduced. However, you still benefit from your gear and whatever enchantments/improvements/traits/set bonuses you've placed upon them.
I don't intend to debase or flame anybody for their opinions but, unless you're a very horrible player who got to level 50 by sheer dumb luck, I don't see how a little challenge from a low level zone - with your effectiveness reduced to it - should be something to be up in arms about.
So, I gave this some careful thought.
If all mobs scale up to my level, it does take away from my sense of progression & it does make me feel less immersed in a MMO (yes, I've played GW2 & didn't like it).
Of course after spending countless hours playing the game, I should feel like a demigod compared to the monsters I killed at level 1. It just makes sense.
Come to think of it, level scaling was the biggest complaint people had about Oblivion. They toned it down in Skyrim, but it still wasn't perfect (especially since they dumbed the game down in other respects, even compared to Oblivion).
Currently, you do not "breeze through zones without resistance" (although content in this game is relatively easy for the most part), unless you return to lower level zones.
Which brings me to another big part of the argument: why would you want to go back there? Even if the mobs scaled up.
Think about it, most people finish content once (or replay it with alt), and never go back (unless they were missing a skyshard or something). There is no replay value, no reason to do it again, unlike something like Veteran Dungeons or Trials, which you do for Dailies/Weeklies & gear incentives. None of this applies to lower level zones.
This is exactly why it'd be nice to have higher level alcoves in lower level zones. It'd be content you hadn't done before in that environment, something that you were wanting to do all that time you leveled up, building suspension & excitement and making it that much better in process.
That said, what I do think would be awesome for the game is the following:
What if, after clearing a public dungeon/delve once, it would get new inhabitants that scaled to your level if you returned there later (say, 5-10 levels)? That is an idea I could get behind.
Another thing would be having roaming groups of bandits/whatever, that scaled to your level, while rest of the zone stayed static.
This would allow players to maintain the sense of progression, while still keeping the game exciting if you returned to a lower level zone.Edited by DDuke on March 1, 2015 9:39PM0 -
TheBastion✭✭✭
So, I gave this some careful thought.
If all mobs scale up to my level, it does take away from my sense of progression & it does make me feel less immersed in a MMO (yes, I've played GW2 & didn't like it).
Of course after spending countless hours playing the game, I should feel like a demigod compared to the monsters I killed at level 1. It just makes sense.
Come to think of it, level scaling was the biggest complaint people had about Oblivion. They toned it down in Skyrim, but it still wasn't perfect (especially since they dumbed the game down in other respects, even compared to Oblivion).
Currently, you do not "breeze through zones without resistance" (although content in this game is relatively easy for the most part), unless you return to lower level zones.
Which brings me to another big part of the argument: why would you want to go back there? Even if the mobs scaled up.
Think about it, most people finish content once (or replay it with alt), and never go back (unless they were missing a skyshard or something). There is no replay value, no reason to do it again, unlike something like Veteran Dungeons or Trials, which you do for Dailies/Weeklies & gear incentives. None of this applies to lower level zones.
This is exactly why it'd be nice to have higher level alcoves in lower level zones. It'd be content you hadn't done before in that environment, something that you were wanting to do all that time you leveled up, building suspension & excitement and making it that much better in process.
That said, what I do think would be awesome for the game is the following:
What if, after clearing a public dungeon/delve once, it would get new inhabitants that scaled to your level if you returned there later (say, 5-10 levels)? That is an idea I could get behind.
Another thing would be having roaming groups of bandits/whatever, that scaled to your level, while rest of the zone stayed static.
This would allow players to maintain the sense of progression, while still keeping the game exciting if you returned to a lower level zone.
@DDuke
On the topic of level scaling once again, it's less to do with the mobs scaling to your level as you getting re-scaled to theirs, at least in terms of effectiveness and statistics. (Much like the aforementioned MMO that we both seem to mention directly or indirectly.)
My reasoning for it (humor me a bit here) is that - even in reality - something as trivial as a rabid stray dog could kill you out in the street or in some back alley if you're an unprepared civilian without any training/experience to deal with such a situation.
On the other hand, as someone 'progressed', the most you'd have is the equipment to deal with that sort of situation as well as experience and - when I say experience - I refer to the contextual do's and don'ts when particular occurrences arise, and less about having god-like powers that allow you to kill things in one or three blows, much like it always seems to be in games/MMOs that make use of the vertical progression system vis a vis levels.
Sure, clean blows do happen that eliminate opponents in that one decisive strike but - in a combat setting in-game - that would be more applicable to the opportunities when you've stunned your opponent with a skill or managed to block their heavy attack.
On another note, however, I do like the roaming groups of bandits and such that patrol around the otherwise static zone. However, without level scaling, what does that mean for other players whom you tag along with but aren't of the same level/lower level than your own?
Do the mobs appear only to you and, when you get attacked, get phased out/look like a fool attacking thin air?
Alternatively, with level scaling, the middle man is at least cut out and both groups of players see the mobs and said mobs are able to pose a challenge regardless, making things more immersive given my real world example above.
Say you're tagging along with a lower level player in a zone appropriate for his/her level and you're re-scaled to that zone's effective level. When encountering a bandit, you - as the more experienced player - know what to block, what to dodge and the certain combat nuances to watch out for as opposed to your low-level companion.
Quite frankly, such a situation would still be able to showcase the difference in skill and know-how between a player who's spent a massive amount of time in the game as opposed to a new player who started the game just hours ago. It makes you appear as someone who actually has combat experience and the benchmark to show that becomes less about being a certain level and more about learning the certain do's and don'ts in any given setting. Much like my examples above.
In short, you look like a veteran/mentor figure to an otherwise inexperienced companion.
Again, though, that's simply my take on it. I'm sure others have their own take on it, much as you and I do.Edited by TheBastion on March 1, 2015 10:26PM[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheBastion wrote: »@DDuke
On the topic of level scaling once again, it's less to do with the mobs scaling to your level as you getting re-scaled to theirs, at least in terms of effectiveness and statistics. (Much like the aforementioned MMO that we both seem to mention directly or indirectly.)
Well, that is even worse then, as it directly (as opposed to indirectly) makes my character weaker.
I don't play to see my character get weaker, I play to see him get stronger, just like in most other (MMO)RPGsTheBastion wrote: »My reasoning for it (humor me a bit here) is that - even in reality - something as trivial as a rabid stray dog could kill you out in the street or in some back alley if you're an unprepared civilian without any training/experience to deal with such a situation.
But you do get training & experience. Isn't that what levels are for?
If you mean "why can this level 45 rabid dog kill you, but this level 5 one can't?", the answer is: that's how RPGs work (and have worked since pen&paper).
Just like your character, the various NPCs have various states of power as well.
If you want a reasonal explanation, then this may be the cause of environment being less hostile for these creatures, than their counterparts in more hostile regions.
This is true in real life as well: an animal held in a zoo doesn't survive long in the wilderness.TheBastion wrote: »On the other hand, as someone 'progressed', the most you'd have is the equipment to deal with that sort of situation as well as experience and, when I say experience, it's what to do and what not to do when particular occurrences arise, and less about having god-like powers that allow you to kill things in one or three blows much like it always seems to be in games/MMOs that make use of the vertical progression system vis a vis levels.
Well, if you feel that way, then perhaps RPGs are not the genre for you?
RPGs have always been about character progression, leveling up & slotting points into "Strength, Agility, Endurance etc" and becoming stronger. Sadly, this aspect has been extremely dumbed down in ESO by having only 3 attributes (Health, Stamina & Magicka).
If you start taking that character progression away, it becomes less of a RPG & more of an action game.TheBastion wrote: »Sure, clean blows do happen that eliminate opponents in that one decisive strike but - in a combat setting in-game - that would be more applicable to the opportunities when you've stunned your opponent with a skill or managed to block their heavy attack.
What is your point here? Do you not want to one hit kill mobs? You can try fighting tougher enemies.
I sure don't want to spend 10 seconds fighting that level 5 mudcrab.
As for more damage after stun/blocking heavy attack, for the former there is a passive in Dual Wield (+15% dmg, very useful), and for the latter there'll be a Champion System passive.TheBastion wrote: »On another note, however, I do like the roaming groups of bandits and such that patrol around the otherwise static zone. However, without level scaling, what does that mean for other players whom you tag along with but aren't of the same level/lower level than your own?
Do the mobs appear only to you and, when you get attacked, get phased out/look like a fool attacking thin air?
Alternatively, with level scaling, the middle man is at least cut out and both groups of players see the mobs and said mobs are able to pose a challenge regardless, making things more immersive given my real world example above.
Again, though, that's simply my take on it. I'm sure others have their own take on it, much as you and I do.
Well, that is a challenge to overcome.
I'm not exactly sure how it'd translate into a MMORPG, the whole idea was actually inspired by a very popular Morrowind mod called Morrowind Comes Alive, which made random, scaled enemies sometimes appear in the otherwise unscaled areas.
Perhaps the roaming mob group could adopt a level that is between the lowest & the highest level player?
I don't know, I'm not a game developer Edited by DDuke on March 1, 2015 10:37PM0 -
TheBastion✭✭✭
Well, that is even worse then, as it directly (as opposed to indirectly) makes my character weaker.
I don't play to see my character get weaker, I play to see him get stronger, just like in most other (MMO)RPGs
But you do get training & experience. Isn't that what levels are for?
If you mean "why can this level 45 rabid dog kill you, but this level 5 one can't?", the answer is: that's how RPGs work (and have worked since pen&paper).
Just like your character, the various NPCs have various states of power as well.
If you want a reasonal explanation, then this may be the cause of environment being less hostile for these creatures, than their counterparts in more hostile regions.
This is true in real life as well: an animal held in a zoo doesn't survive long in the wilderness.
Well, if you feel that way, then perhaps RPGs are not the genre for you?
RPGs have always been about character progression, leveling up & slotting points into "Strength, Agility, Endurance etc" and becoming stronger. Sadly, this aspect has been extremely dumbed down in ESO by having only 3 attributes (Health, Stamina & Magicka).
If you start taking that character progression away, it becomes less of a RPG & more of an action game.
What is your point here? Do you not want to one hit kill mobs? You can try fighting tougher enemies.
I sure don't want to spend 10 seconds fighting that level 5 mudcrab.
As for more damage after stun/blocking heavy attack, for the former there is a passive in Dual Wield (+15% dmg, very useful), and for the latter there'll be a Champion System passive.
Well, that is a challenge to overcome.
I'm not exactly sure how it'd translate into a MMORPG, the whole idea was actually inspired by a very popular Morrowind mod called Morrowind Comes Alive, which made random, scaled enemies sometimes appear in the otherwise unscaled areas.
Perhaps the roaming mob group could adopt a level that is between the lowest & the highest level player?
I don't know, I'm not a game developer
@DDuke
As to the points mentioned above, I suppose I - personally - just enjoy the sense of endangerment even and especially when playing my games. It makes it more immersive and encourages me to watch whatever it is I'm doing and not doing, as opposed to simply relying on the fact that I grinded 49 levels since I started playing, pumping stats into my character like it's steroids, to the point where I'm unkillable by anything that isn't at least 10 levels below me.
But, I won't pursue the point. To each their own, as a wise man once said.
With regard to the roaming bandits mechanic and both our lack of experience in developing games, I suppose we'll just leave that to ZOS and surprise us if they ever decide to implement it.
Edited by TheBastion on March 1, 2015 10:43PM[Player Suggestion] Sapiarch Helm Dye Channels (May 2018)
[Player Suggestion] ESO Improvements, Features, and Possible Overhaul (January 2015)
[Player Suggestion] Weapon Dyes, Transmogrification, and Trait Rerolling (October 2016)
[Roleplay] What ESO is Missing as a Roleplaying Community (March 2017)
[Player Concern] Update 6 and Riding Skill Horse Aesthetics
[Player Suggestion] Restoration Staff And The Emperor's Blessing
"Woe unto those who would do harm upon the innocent, for – through me – Stendarr himself rebukes them." – The Bastion
"Praise Stendarr!" \[T]/ – The Bastion0 -
Ixtyr✭✭✭✭✭Dang, @DDuke and @TheBastion, y'all have been going at it since I bounced out. Let me chime back in with something quickly, and we'll see if it helps.
In terms of level scaling, I agree with @DDuke. I hate it. I hate it in Guild Wars 2, regardless of whether I'm scaling down or the mobs are scaling up.
That said, I do agree with @TheBastion, level scaling keeps the content challenging and more playable. And I love that. Unfortunately, again, as Duke said, we're playing a game that largely has little to no replay value in most zones. So the value in scaling is somewhat diminished.
So here's my somewhat-shoddy-but-still-remotely-possible solution - voluntary level scaling.
We've seen it in games like RIFT - you, the player, can consciously choose to make yourself a "mentor" to anyone at least 5 levels lower than you. If you're, say, a Daggerfall Covenant player, and you're maxed out at 50 with the Champion System and whatnot (assuming no Vet Ranks for this system, since they'll be removed), you could enter Glenumbra and choose to lower your level down to as low as Level 5. You'd retain all of your skills and points, but your stats would be nerfed. You get to consciously choose whether you want to downlevel your main temporarily to play with your buddy's new character, instead of having to level an alt or simply roflstomp everything around you.
This would also allow maxed players looking for a decent challenge to have the opportunity to nerf their stats and try to solo harder content (imagine a Level 10 player trying to complete the entire Bangkorai zone).
To me, this sort of system would simply enable players to play however they want to with their friends or by themselves, in a manner that is unintrusive on the gameplay of everyone else.
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Secondly, keep in mind that all of this scaling we're discussing may just be a moot point whenever ZOS removes the Veteran Ranks in a future patch. That's something I didn't fully consider when you spoke about the Mercenary/Neutral Zones idea. When ZOS rebalances Vet Ranks, the existence of Veteran Rank zones could become unnecessary, and all zones would simply be scaled to 50 at that point - a la Guild Wars 2 horizontal progression at level 80 for all "end-game zones". That makes this sort of a system a lot more viable...and I'm coming to like the idea even more.
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Lastly - the roaming bandits idea. I like this, but I'd like for it to be scaled for the zone (and based on how many players join the fight, their levels, etc), and scaled dynamically. Again, a RIFT reference - just perhaps a bit less "fixed" of a system. Basically, I'd like to see more dynamism in the open-world events that happen. Dark Anchors are fixed, and the little random oblivion tears are too few and far between...and fairly bland.
But I'd like to expand upon this idea. A lot. I'd like more options - like, say, having a bit more of the alliance wars involved in open world zones. What if you were sitting in Greenshade, and a fleet of Redguard ships landed on the northwestern beaches, and a full, all-out invasion of the zone began? Players from that faction would not be involved (as ZOS wants to keep PvP in Cyrodiil), but huge armies of NPCs wrecking through zones would give PvE players and RPers a heck of a lot to do and enjoy. If no one helps out, then gradually the Redguards take over quest hubs, maybe they build up a small fort and continue to invade into Malabal Tor, so it's up to the players of the Dominion to hold them back. Similar events would happen in the zones of all three alliances. How cool would that be? And would it not keep PvE and RPers happy and excited, and help to improve the overall "feel" of having alliance-pride?
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Just a thought. Loving this thread. Ixtyr Falavir - Bosmer Nightblade - Daggerfall Covenant
Reya Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion
Kaylin Falavir - Dunmer Nightblade - Ebonheart Pact
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Alyna Falavir - Dunmer Dragonknight - Daggerfall Covenant
Aernah Falavir - Altmer Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Aranis Falavir - Bosmer Sorcerer - Daggerfall Covenant
Aerin Falavir - Bosmer Warden - Daggerfall Covenant
Rhys Falavir - Orc Sorcerer - Aldmeri Dominion
Rhiannon Falavir - Altmer Templar - Aldmeri Dominion
Nenara Falavir - Argonian Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
Neera Falavir - Orc Warden - Aldmeri Dominion
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