Game Performance in Cyrodiil

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Game performance improvements are something we are constantly working on as a team, especially for Cyrodiil and other heavy-load scenarios. It's an important ongoing effort for us, and it's one for which your feedback is critical. We've read your recent feedback about game performance in Cyrodiil and understand how frustrating it is to have your abilities or character become unresponsive in the midst of a huge, important battle. We want you to know we do read your feedback, and we are dedicated to continuing our efforts to improve your overall experience.

There are a few key things we need everyone to know. When a large number of players clumps together and spams PFX-heavy abilities, it will cause slow-down. We've put in a number of fixes and tools to help reduce this, but the reality is there will always be some slow-down when this happens.

We've been tracking crashes in Cyrodiil, and the number one client crash we see come through our crash reporting tool is one that occurs due to broken or out-of-date add-ons. If you are frequently crashing in Cyrodiil, we strongly urge you to try playing with and without your add-ons to see if you experience any noticeable difference in crash frequency and game performance.

All that said, let's take a look at where we're at with efforts to improve game performance.

What have we done so far?

• We've fixed quite a few issues where effects were failing to clean up as they should. This has improved performance related to ability effects, but it is an ongoing effort.
• We put in a PFX slider to help with game performance in heavy combat situations where there is a high amount of PFX simultaneously firing off. Dropping this down to the minimum setting can help with lag in crowded areas. (Reducing graphics settings in general can provide better performance when in Cyrodiil, too.)
• The removal of Forward Camps has cut down on some of the player-character pile-up, which has helped game performance in Cyrodiil.

What more are we doing?

• Evaluating ability particle effects and fixing any issues we find with effects failing to clean up, or being too taxing, is an ongoing effort.
• We have a fix going in today (1.5.5) that will fix a region crash issue in Cyrodiil which was related to a scenario where someone could teleport to Wayshrines while still targeted for an attack (this could not be done on purpose—it just happened sometimes.)
• We have a fix for the issue where the game client gradually slows down over time when weapon swapping. We’re aiming to get this fix into the next incremental patch (1.5.6.)
• Our QA team hops onto the live servers to observe, take metrics, and report back on anything unusual they see.

If you are encountering severe lag, crashes, or unresponsive abilities in Cyrodiil, there are a few bits of info we'd like to get from you to help us further improve your experience.

• Do you have your PFX slider turned all the way down, to minimize particle effects load?
• Do you have your graphics turned down? If so, what are they turned down to?
• Are you using any add-ons? If so, which ones? (We are not trying to place blame on add-ons; rather, knowing which ones people are using may help us pinpoint potential issues.)

We hope that helps explain our past, current, and future efforts to improve game performance, particularly in Cyrodiil. Thanks again for your ongoing feedback and support.

Crogster

Great to see a response. Some feedback to you is with the slider turned right down and no addons enabled the game does does not improve. It can work fine in low population but in the evening when i run a PvP raid it is slow for EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE at the same time. We all talk in zone and we can not cast any abilities, we can not place siege and the server is crashing and kicking everyone out 2 or 3 times a night sometimes!. I am playing on the Thornblade campaign Europe and no matter what we try nothing makes the gaming performance enjoyable. I am running a guild and i am losing numbers turning up every day soon we wont have a pvp! Please please please do something quickly :P

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Crogster wrote: »

Great to see a response. Some feedback to you is with the slider turned right down and no addons enabled the game goes does not improve. It can work fine in low population but in the evening when i run a PvP raid it is slow for EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE at the same time. We all talk in zone and we can not cast any abilities, we can not place siege and the server is crashing and kicking everyone out 2 or 3 times a nigh sometimes!. I am playing on the Thornblade campaign Europe and no matter what we try nothing makes the gaming performance enjoyable. I am running a guild and i am losing numbers turning up every day soon we wont have a pvp! Please please please do something quickly :P

Thank you, @Crogster. This info does help. When you mention crashing, is it a region crash where everyone is kicked out, or individuals experiencing a client crash?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Crogster wrote: »

Great to see a response. Some feedback to you is with the slider turned right down and no addons enabled the game goes does not improve. It can work fine in low population but in the evening when i run a PvP raid it is slow for EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE at the same time. We all talk in zone and we can not cast any abilities, we can not place siege and the server is crashing and kicking everyone out 2 or 3 times a nigh sometimes!. I am playing on the Thornblade campaign Europe and no matter what we try nothing makes the gaming performance enjoyable. I am running a guild and i am losing numbers turning up every day soon we wont have a pvp! Please please please do something quickly :P

Thank you, @Crogster. This info does help. When you mention crashing, is it a region crash where everyone is kicked out, or individuals experiencing a client crash?

Both occur regularly, Region crashes occur as well as 'Scrollbacks' (where everyone is disconnected to character screen and any enemy scrolls held are returned to their original owner).

In addition to the performance issues there are numerous bugs such as the low pop bonus bug (see PVP forum) which has had a 'Its working fine' reply (+600 points to one faction)

Again thanks for the update, could you keep them coming perhaps weekly to calm some nerves over the state of the game

Crogster

The whole of the AD crashed last night on thornblade, 3 times so this I would suggest that everyone was kicked out on all 3 sides but I can confirm i saw over 100 people log in on AD and everyone in my 3 guilds said they crashed. This is usual after a big engagement where you have many groups at the same location the server begins to slow for everyone. Once the messages start in zone everyone report latency over 999+ and then spells become unresponsive, next the siege goes then the crash happens. . When this happens it also gives the scrolls back to the home temples ( i believe this only happens if you have lsot one of your scrolls) hope this helps further

Crogster

Also you mentioned addon causing a problem maybe you could implement some simple things so we dont have to use addons

1) A better Group window to allow us to see shields and health of allies better
2) A group leader icon that stands out maybe a different colour and slightly larger
3) An auto invite tool for groups
4) Buff displays - Displays buffs such as food and spell buffs on screen with count down

The reason we download so many addons is that that it seem to us some simple implementations to improve the interface have been missed :P Just my opinion

Orchish

This is a bit confusing, you are talking about lag but it sounds like you are talking about performance issues.

What i mean is, we currently have two major issues. 1, latency lag. 2, FPS drop.

Both happen in large battles. Only one effects every one on the server at the same time and that is latency lag where the server starts lagging out causing crazy high pings and making players abilities unresponsive.

The FPS drop can be helped by turning down graphics and particle sliders etc, this simply depends on the specs of your PC, although the truth is your game really did run better back in beta in terms of performance. For me at least (FPS)

In terms of latency lag, turning down any settings at all will and does not have any effect. It is server side and often we even see the server crash which has now been renamed scrollback by many players as it usually resets captured scrolls. This is the biggest and most frustrating issue for me personally. It happens daily and nothing i do can solve this problem, once many players gather in one area the ping rises and within a few minutes every player is spamming zone chat with "LAAAAAG"

I don't have the best internet in the world, but i do have fibre optic with 76MBps download which i believe should be fast enough for any game. I play many games online and ESO is the only game i genuinely experience unplayable lag during EU prime time.

With your new ping display which was recently added, i have noticed that during lag spikes on EU the ping can go from 70-90 to 999, every time i see this i also see zone chat spammed with people saying "lag" which lets me know without question i am not the only one getting this horrendous lag.

Crogster

Orchish wrote: »

This is a bit confusing, you are talking about lag but it sounds like you are talking about performance issues.

What i mean is, we currently have two major issues. 1, latency lag. 2, FPS drop.

Both happen in large battles. Only one effects every one on the server at the same time and that is latency lag where the server starts lagging out causing crazy high pings and making players abilities unresponsive.

The FPS drop can be helped by turning down graphics and particle sliders etc, this simply depends on the specs of your PC, although the truth is your game really did run better back in beta in terms of performance. For me at least (FPS)

In terms of latency lag, turning down any settings at all will and does not have any effect. It is server side and often we even see the server crash which has now been renamed scrollback by many players as it usually resets captured scrolls. This is the biggest and most frustrating issue for me personally. It happens daily and nothing i do can solve this problem, once many players gather in one area the ping rises and within a few minutes every player is spamming zone chat with "LAAAAAG"

I don't have the best internet in the world, but i do have fibre optic with 76MBps download which i believe should be fast enough for any game. I play many games online and ESO is the only game i genuinely experience unplayable lag during EU prime time.

With your new ping display which was recently added, i have noticed that during lag spikes on EU the ping can go from 70-90 to 999, every time i see this i also see zone chat spammed with people saying "lag" which lets me know without question i am not the only one getting this horrendous lag.

I agree with all of this.....

aco5712

i am getting pretty considerable fps drops when im anywhere near more then like 10 people (even with no one around). Before 1.5, no issues i would run into a battle with 50+ people and no fps (except the occasional stutter here and there). But now, its like i can be riding my horse though a field with no one and i will stutter on my horse. FPS would say its 40 but it would then drop suddenly to 3. I was at low settings before so i can handle such people heavy environments but now, low isnt cutting it, and i dont want to go to minimum because i bought this game coz it looked nice and i want to play it with some form of graphics.

I experienced the giant lag fest when ping goes 999+ and i immediately just crashed my game and left pvp. Havent been back to heavy situations since 1.5 really which is really killing me.

I only run 2 addons which are both up to date. FTC and combat cloud.

Hopefully the weapon swap issue will fix my fps stutter.

SoulScream

I don't have a problem with FPS what I have a problem with is your server lag.

Also will the stuck in combat bug be worked on?

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Another fix, analog to the removal of forward camps, would be to remove the aoe target cap. It would have the same improving gameplay effect but also would improve performances all around.
If you've noticed that most of the lag comes from players clumping together and spamming abilities, why not just remove the number one source of it?

Crogster

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Another fix, analog to the removal of forward camps, would be to remove the aoe target cap. It would have the same improving gameplay effect but also would improve performances all around.
If you've noticed that most of the lag comes from players clumping together and spamming abilities, why not just remove the number one source of it?

LOL!!! Seriously if i had a dollar for everytime some one used the performance issues as an excuse to qq about Impulse :P

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Crogster wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Another fix, analog to the removal of forward camps, would be to remove the aoe target cap. It would have the same improving gameplay effect but also would improve performances all around.
If you've noticed that most of the lag comes from players clumping together and spamming abilities, why not just remove the number one source of it?

LOL!!! Seriously if i had a dollar for everytime some one used the performance issues as an excuse to qq about Impulse :P

Nope not impulse, impulse is a non factor and might as well not exist and there would still be stacking and spamming.
I really meant the target cap.

Morvul

back when the PFX slider was introduced, I was very much looking forward to it. From my (probably naive) point of view, it seemed like it could be the "magic bullet" to solve most of the "low FPS in big fights" issues.
To my surprise - the PFX slider had basically no effect on my FPS in big battles. For both the PFX settings as well as the general video quality settings, no matter whether I set it to minimum or maximum - once 50+ people are fighting I have relatively precisely 15-18 FPS. Which is exactly the same as I had before the PFX culling system was implemented.
This seems to suggest that neither the amount of rendered PFX, nor the "graphics load" which is influenced by the video settings is actually limiting my FPS during big fights.
Obviously something else has to be responsible for limiting my FPS to below 20 during big battles - though what that might be, I have no idea...

Too much PFX in big battles seemed like a perfectly resonable explanation - but since the patch which changed maximum simultaneously rendered PFX from presumably unlimited to a maximum of 1000 (via slider) had exactly no effect what so ever on my fps... the culprit must be elsewhere...

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Games like ESO are usually cpu bound, not gpu bound.

It's due to al the sync going on between client and servers, having to refresh the states of all the players in your area.
Sometimes overclocking aleviates the issues a bit, but it will always happen as long as there are massive battles with a lot of abilities going on.

SoulScream

My FPS will drop low before a large battle is even on the screen. Like porting into a keep and a large battle is outside the wall.

Angavar

The main fps drops I get are when multiple people are running the alliance support skill purge, and use it at the same time (the visual effect seems to stack rather than cull to play a single effect).

Latency wise, any battle involving 20+ players from 2 or more factions seems to cause huge skill delay, resulting in all the players stacking on each other and spamming aoe attacks and heals. In situations like this, I can activate my ultimate 5-10 times in a row, the effect plays but no damage registers and the ultimate points are not used until another skill is activated.

This can happen anywhere on the map, and seems to vary from being localised to zone wide latency spikes.

The fps drops I can attribute to my setup (even with pfx at minimum), but the latency seems to be entirely server side, as everyone in the zone/area is affected at the same time.

Appreciate the communication, and hoping you can find the cause soon!

TheBull

Oh my... It's not FPS lag that's the problem. It's server lag. You guys really don't know about this. You can't be serious. Haven't you seen the videos?

Once the people who are in Cyrodiil come out and see this, it wont be received well.

edit- yeah, sure there are bugs, and decisions you make that we complain about, but for the most part you guys get it right. I don't think you have ever been more off in your analysis of an issue before.

Grim13

You should really post this topic in the Alliance War section as well.

tplink3r1

Im having no problems with low FPS, but the connection on the other hand...

Poxheart

Disable all AOE abilities in Cyrodiil until you guys can figure this out.

Zavus

The removal of FCs has done nothing to stop the "player-character pile-up". Zergs are just as big as they were before the removal of camps... I guess I'll have to record some more footage of how laggy the game currently is even with no camps...

sirston

@Zos_jessicaFolsom
have your Team run with the big guilds of the servers as a wing-man or a camera crew and watch from a safe distances and view any lag first hand, im pretty sure the guilds would be more then happy to bring them along.

DovresMalven

Awesome! Love the enlightening post, thank youu. ^,..,^

Leovolao

t(o.o)t

Sharee

TheBull wrote: »

Oh my... It's not FPS lag that's the problem. It's server lag.

Yeah i agree.

Typical situation: two guild groups fighting each other. Both stand on each other and spam aoe damage+aoe heals.

In this scenario, i can see the spell effects just fine, i can see people moving just fine, the framerate is fine, there is no stuttering.

However, if i try to use any abilities, they do nothing. Trying to place a siege - nothing. Stand on top of the two guild groups - i do not take any damage despite of the fireworks around me. And it's like this for everyone. Enemy player stopped trying to attack me and did a /flute instead (at least that worked )

Its definitely not a case of poor client performance due to graphical effects on screen. The client performs fine. It's just that the server does not communicate.

Komma

The fps does go down but it is playable and not the main concern. The server falls behind at times and it is the whole campaign. You can be at the front gate and a big fight happens on the other side of the map. You will have the same delays even when you are no where near the fight. I am sure others can confirm this to be true.

Inordinate

TheBull wrote: »

Oh my... It's not FPS lag that's the problem. It's server lag. You guys really don't know about this. You can't be serious. Haven't you seen the videos?

This usually means that they have either have no idea how to fix it, or that they simply cannot.

Good thing the new Dragon Age is out!

Komma

Inordinate wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Oh my... It's not FPS lag that's the problem. It's server lag. You guys really don't know about this. You can't be serious. Haven't you seen the videos?

This usually means that they have either have no idea how to fix it, or that they simply cannot.

Good thing the new Dragon Age is out!

I love ESO even with its issues. Have fun in your other game though.

vanddalx

It's certainly NOT client side. The problem is with the SERVER returning responses for actions. So what handles that balancing on your side ZOS? And why one earth would you create an MMO based around siege warfare that can't handle siege and large scale warfare? Oh, it happens PvE side too with no effects going off.

I'll be more than happy to provide any ingame feedback or perform requested testing for a GM if needed, just let me know.

@vanddalx

Rune_Relic

sirston wrote: »

@Zos_jessicaFolsom
have your Team run with the big guilds of the servers as a wing-man or a camera crew and watch from a safe distances and view any lag first hand, im pretty sure the guilds would be more then happy to bring them along.

And why would they suffer server lag when they are playing over the LAN ?