Revert Eclipse cap change.

Cinbri

I don't wanna speak about such weird mechanic like Jabs free CC immunity or rest... but about new nerfed Templar mechanic.

In 1.6 Eclipse is very usefull PvP skill. Spamming Eclipse in 1vX battle allow our "stand your ground" class really play it role. Eclipse worse than DK Scales, for using it effectively you must spam it on several targets unlike Scales, also Eclipse one of the most expensive templar skills and comparable to Rushed Ceremony cost, i.e. Templar waste more resources than DK to withstand enemy damage.
This is my footage to show how effective Total Dark for now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvVHVrSjkqA

In 1.7/2.1 PTS

Eclipse now deal laughable AOE damage on expire but capped with one target, i.e. you can't eclipsing more than 1 enemy, everytime you recasting spell, it expires from previous target. Since PvP is XvX battles and Templar don't have escape ability, this change just ruining this skill for PvP and seriously decreasing Templar survivability. With no damage skills buff and already nerfed to no-use Blazing Shield and additional Eclipse and blocking nerf, Templar's only defensive mechanic left - is spamming Rushed Ceremony button again and again and again, i.e. this change transforming Templar into pure Cleric healing class in PvP. Added AOE damage is not an option that worth such huge nerf, Templars using only Total Dark morph coz healing helps them to eat more damage in serious fight, Unstable Core with it's laughable AOE damage is not viable morph, not for PvP nor for PvE. Also with cap change Unstable Core will be still useless morph, but now Total Dark will loose all it's effectiveness too. Overall with many useless class skills for PvP, we got huge nerf hammer over Eclipse that will make it useless in any scenario except 1v1, and Cyro is not an arena where you could 1v1 all the time, it is an area of zergs.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom please tell people responsible for this change to revert it. If ZOS thinking that unnoticeable AOE damage is worth of such nerf, than please remove it and restore uncapped Eclipse.

Maulkin

As a sorc who has had the exact same issue with velocious curse... i feel you. You place it on one target and it removes it from the last one.

I hope for your sake that change gets reverted, but i won't hold my breath. I've asked multiple times for Curse to work like Eclipse used to and instead of changing Curse, they change Eclipse to give it the same crappy mechanic. Sigh

technohic

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

As a sorc who has had the exact same issue with velocious curse... i feel you. You place it on one target and it removes it from the last one.

I hope for your sake that change gets reverted, but i won't hold my breath. I've asked multiple times for Curse to work like Eclipse used to and instead of changing Curse, they change Eclipse to give it the same crappy mechanic. Sigh

I blame you for not knowing that the way they read things. Obviously you said make velocious curse work like eclipse and they did that in the opposite affect that is ZOS logic.

ToRelax

+1

Soris

+1 this is just stupid. It is already extremely situational skill and has wonky mechanics. No need anymore nerfs. It needs further buffing instead. That explode effect in pts is laughtable dmg wise.

Bashev

DK Petrify works the same way. If you cast it on another target the stun is removed from the first one.

danno8

Must be a PvE change, cause it certainly was a non-issue in PvP.

technohic

danno8 wrote: »

Must be a PvE change, cause it certainly was a non-issue in PvP.

That's what I would find odd. From what I hear, the mobs where you would really like it, eclipse doesn't work on them.

danno8

technohic wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Must be a PvE change, cause it certainly was a non-issue in PvP.

That's what I would find odd. From what I hear, the mobs where you would really like it, eclipse doesn't work on them.

Maybe 1 Templar with ecplise could negate a bunch of ranged adds or something? No idea since I don't really PvE dungeons much.

But if it made a Templar useful in anything but healing I can guarantee in caused massive panic and alarm over at ZoS HQ.

Joy_Division

Because the forums were just rife of people complaining about Templars spamming eclipses on multiple people and how that was breaking PvP...

Because those who play light armored magicka templars and solo roam are just facerolling everyone they come across with the wide variety of effective defensive and skirmisher skill at their disposal...

Because those on the combat team have at any point stepped foot in Cyrodiil and tried to play a templar against multiple sorcerers...

Emma_Overload

I can tell you exactly why ZOS does stuff like this... the clue is in the OP's second sentence:

Spamming Eclipse in 1vX battle

ZOS does not want you or anybody else to succeed in a "1vX battle" because

1) They hate solo players.

2) They love zergs.

This is why DK Scales, Sorc BoL and all other abilities that help a single player fight many have been NERFED so that they are only really effective in 1v1 battles or not at all.

kungmoo

nerf after nerf to the Templar......

Ezareth

Well as far as I know Eclipse was the only single target debuff ability that would persist through spamming it on multiple people. The templar I run with would also spam it on all the guards on a resource we were attackin to negate most of their damage.

That said, I think it was fine the way it was as it *is* expensive.

driosketch

tinythinker

Just be glad they didn't change it to cause damage to the caster when broken out of.

tplink3r1

They might just as well make it cost 0 stamina to break out of it.

tinythinker

tplink3r1 wrote: »

They might just as well make it cost 0 stamina to break out of it.

On serious note, would be cool if it came with double the cost to "break free". Add that to a passive and make it good for all Templar abilities. One skill point to increase Break Free from a Templar CC by 25%. Two points for 50%. Good for Eclipse, Focused Charge, and Spear Shards.

pkb16_ESO2

I really can not understand it. Its quite obvious that temps are weak, why nerfing us more and no positive changes at all.

Antirob

+1

timidobserver

I didn't notice this change in the patch notes. They really took the nerf bat to us hard this update. Everything we have that is even half way useful was nerfed in at least one way. Either the across the board damage/heal/shield nerf, specific skill nerfs, or both in many cases.

tinythinker

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

I really can not understand it. Its quite obvious that temps are weak, why nerfing us more and no positive changes at all.

Maybe when they play on the in-house server there is a wicked good employee who wipes the floor with everyone using an Argonian Templar...

Ernest145

Seriously can't believe how they can nerf one of the templars best pvp utility skills. When I am in an outnumbered fight this skills literally is a lifesaver. Templars literally lacks any burst damage, our closest thing to burst is dark flare which easily avoided by people with half a brain. I seriously don't understand why ZOS felt the need to nerf a good skill. Templars are already on the bottom and now this? I have yet to see and complaints about this skill except the bugs with it, but of course ZOS feels the need to nerf everything that is good for outnumbered combat.

tinythinker

Ernest145 wrote: »

Seriously can't believe how they can nerf one of the templars best pvp utility skills. When I am in an outnumbered fight this skills literally is was a lifesaver.

Seri

Ouch. This sucks

timidobserver wrote: »

I didn't notice this change in the patch notes.

I hadn't seen it either so just double checked - definitely missing over there.

Joy_Division

Ezareth wrote: »

Well as far as I know Eclipse was the only single target debuff ability that would persist through spamming it on multiple people. The templar I run with would also spam it on all the guards on a resource we were attackin to negate most of their damage.

That said, I think it was fine the way it was as it *is* expensive.

Spamming it on NPCs who don't break it (and enjoy the free immunity) is a bit strong. But, yes, it was fine as it was expensive and actual players could break it, aside from not exactly the most reliable skills. Under the current system what would my my magicka Templar do if I bumped into you and Pixiesticks?

technohic

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Well as far as I know Eclipse was the only single target debuff ability that would persist through spamming it on multiple people. The templar I run with would also spam it on all the guards on a resource we were attackin to negate most of their damage.

That said, I think it was fine the way it was as it *is* expensive.

Spamming it on NPCs who don't break it (and enjoy the free immunity) is a bit strong. But, yes, it was fine as it was expensive and actual players could break it, aside from not exactly the most reliable skills. Under the current system what would my my magicka Templar do if I bumped into you and Pixiesticks?

1h/shield stamina and spam the reflect.

Cinbri

Ezareth wrote: »

The templar I run with would also spam it on all the guards on a resource we were attackin to negate most of their damage.
That said, I think it was fine the way it was as it *is* expensive.

Yes, but DK can 1 cast Scales and negate 4 attacks of guards and to reapply effect just cast Scales again and again, Templar must cast Eclipse on several targets for noticeble effect and if damage too high to overheal after Eclipse expired - reapply again on more than 2 target, i.e. waste much more resources.

technohic wrote: »

1h/shield stamina and spam the reflect.

In 1v1 Eclipse still effective, even more effective as you can spam it on CC immune enemy and apply 6 sec delayed AOE damage. But Cyro is not 1v1 and ZOS is not giving us Arena where we could spend all our time dueling.

Sad facts with current 1.7 pts:
1. Charge is not fixed but according

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

is there a still a gcd for the templar charge?

It now works the same way all other abilities in the game work: there is a 1 second GCD for every skill.

Working as intended. I guess it is official give up on fixing this skill.
2. Zero buffs of any damage dealing Templar skill.
3. Honor the Dead buff is useless coz with nerfed Eclipse magicka Templar won't be able to hold even 1v3 vs decent players. I.e. Templar class officialy no-solo class and everyone must just pick-up Breath of Life over HtD (and i saw only couple of players using HtD even now) and stuck to someones group or roll stamplar and still be worst stamina class.
4. RO bonus damage nerf: i hate this skill and beamplar playstyle, but nerfing most effective dd skill and giving no buffs to any other damage skills in return is a bit too much to already weakest damage dealer in PvP. And with new Battle Spirit buff heal depression Radiant Glory morph heals are laughable (like 200 hp per tcik in execute mode).
5. Zero buffs to any defensive Templar mechanic(read 3^^ about HtD) so again we stuck to group where now the only best skill we can cast is BoL and sometimes Repentance.
In result: we got nothing in 1.7 for now. I don't wanna exaggerating but i played this game as Paladin, and i don't wanna stuck to someones group/zerg and play Cleric with pressing only BoL and Repentacne buttons to feel my class usefull and i don't wanna roll other class. If this change will go live i'll just leave this game in the past, since getting nerf-hammers every single Update by weakest PvP class is not enoyable.

Farorin

Yeah, there are a couple of changes to things and nerfs that I don't understand, seeing as how the original move was not even OP in any way.

Joy_Division

technohic wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Well as far as I know Eclipse was the only single target debuff ability that would persist through spamming it on multiple people. The templar I run with would also spam it on all the guards on a resource we were attackin to negate most of their damage.

That said, I think it was fine the way it was as it *is* expensive.

Spamming it on NPCs who don't break it (and enjoy the free immunity) is a bit strong. But, yes, it was fine as it was expensive and actual players could break it, aside from not exactly the most reliable skills. Under the current system what would my my magicka Templar do if I bumped into you and Pixiesticks?

1h/shield stamina and spam the reflect.

Exactly, I have to go outside the class line to access a similar performing skill in my classline that I am to ignore!. Why bother having the skill in the first place? ZoS, stop making nerfs nobody asked for and stop ruining skills and playstyles that are not causing game balance issues.

Kaliki

Joy_Division wrote: »

Exactly, I have to go outside the class line to access a similar performing skill in my classline that I am to ignore!. Why bother having the skill in the first place? ZoS, stop making nerfs nobody asked for and stop ruining skills and playstyles that are not causing game balance issues.

The problem is, even before the nerf, the 1h+shield reflect is more reliable and effective than the templar skill (and if I remember correctly cheaper by far).
If I was in a 1on1 then Eclipse would give me a second or two when used at the right moment, or sometimes I could even surprise someone not paying attention. But most of the time all it does is force ppl to break free - for a high magicka cost.

I'm sorry but I do not see much use with this ability at all.

Kas

Ezareth wrote: »

Well as far as I know Eclipse was the only single target debuff ability that would persist through spamming it on multiple people. The templar I run with would also spam it on all the guards on a resource we were attackin to negate most of their damage.

That said, I think it was fine the way it was as it *is* expensive.

?
every dot, every snare, every stun, be it from stonefist, charge or whatever. numerous other abilities all do persist.
if it's not a regular CC, take away the CC immunity and we have a deal...

that being said, I don't find the nerf as bad as it is presented here.
lately, i have never fought a 1vX where the majority wasn't a stamina nightblade. I don't except that to change.
The skill will still be very useful in 1vX with 1-2 worth targets.

Your current build (at least the one from the video) really seems to be almost perfect for it. Sewwps aside, there is no other form of CC. If you were using charge, javelin, reach, crushing shock, b-spear, etc etc, putting it on everyone around woudn't be an option anyway. Maybe those will becopme an option after the eclipse change.

by the way: don't you often find yourself annoyed by people who just turn around and walk away from you? No beam, low damage (i see 1h/s, regfood and high health with regfood and a decent stam pool), no gap closer, no offensive cc.

Still, I agree in general: Really, really annoying that there is this nerf and absolutely uncalled for.


@Cinbri
If you don't want to be a groups healer, you can still be a shield stacking, mistforming, detonation, beamplar. When solo I play a totally different build from my group build (pretty much the healer thing you don't want to be in small groups - zergs are irrelevant anyway, but imho dk's with the major mending buff would probably the best healers anyway combined with 1-2 templars only spamming BoL). I have never recorded gameplay but, between hellseesyou and blablafat (two peopel that have recordet vids for range/meele styles) there are several variants, i guess.

Personally, I expect that playstyle to work in 1.7.