Loot change in Patch notes - Harms Real Players, not Bots.

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO · April 2014

Hard to believe that they implemented a 1 day cool down for a horse feed.

But didn't have the brains to implement it on a boss feed.

This game is all-you-can-eat boss.

Console gamers will love it.

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

Yes. If you sat down with the intention of designing a solution that would both encourage even more botting while penalising the paying customer, this would be the result.

Incredible.

It does not even pretend to deal with the problem of getting a hit on a boss.

There had better be something else going on otherwise this game is finished.

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Assigning a GM to specifically ban accounts all day long wont be cost efficient considering there are so many problems and so little workforce (apparently)

What does that even mean?

If solving a problem they created by their decision to design the game to be the easiest bot farm ever costs them some of their profits then too bad. It is that or lose subs. Especially as their Genius solution to the problem seems to be 'make things even worse'.

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

byghostlightrwb17_ESO wrote: »

its amazing how many people think real players should be able to farm but bots shouldnt. Both groups are just milking the same exploit, hole, oversight. Just one group less nicely. Id rather end up with less loot overall but have a decent chance of real loot, then dealing with what I have been seeing for the last month.

this action isnt Zen last word, its just filling a gap until a deeper solution is put in.

It is not filling a gap it is digging a deeper hole.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · April 2014

On the one hand you are all right ofcourse... but if all the people that claim to be leaving over the bots actualy leave there will be less of an inclination or incentive for goldfarmers and botters to actualy be in this game... which will make the game more enjoyable for those that stay...

Sad, but true

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

On the one hand you are all right ofcourse... but if all the people that claim to be leaving over the bots actualy leave there will be less of an inclination or incentive for goldfarmers and botters to actualy be in this game... which will make the game more enjoyable for those that stay...

Sad, but true

The players leaving won't be gold buyers. It therefore has no impact whatsoever on gold sellers.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO · April 2014

Oh.... the less players, the less money the gold sellers can make and they'll just follow people to the next game that is heralded as "WoW Killer"... rest assured of that

Sadique · April 2014

Daverios wrote: »

This is NOT to combat bots. You could not be more wrong.

Let me repeat THIS IS NOT TO COMBAT BOTS.

Bots do not care about the loot. Only experience. You think a person running a dozen bots actually loots anything that is not stackable. Hint they do not and never did. Do you think they stop botting and run to town when inv full? Nope the delete it themselves.

This is 100% to combat farmers and griefers NOT bots. You know those annoying little #&(! $ that infest every delve doing the exact same thing as the bots hiding behind 'im a real person so its ok'. Those are the people that are in it for the loot. This is Zenimax telling you to bugger off as the rest of us have sent in thousands of reports against these jerkwads.

or get this, their bot program auto mails everything off to another account who does all the vendoring. Go look at the amount of xp you get for killing one of those mini bosses while 20 other people are also hitting it, its pretty much nothing.

kamohs212eb17_ESO · April 2014

byghostlightrwb17_ESO wrote: »

its amazing how many people think real players should be able to farm but bots shouldnt. Both groups are just milking the same exploit, hole, oversight.

Dont you think you a bit wrong about it?
"Work - a process that requires the application of mental or physical effort, which puts its purpose getting a certain result". You farm mobs = you get loot. You spent your time and mental effort by staring monitor in waiting when boss respawn, then doing some actions and back to waiting.

I'm looking on public dungeons as alternative way to get crafting materials. Hey, game resources are limited, at least by in-game space. You can walk for half-hour and didnt see even a single wood or ore to harvest! How you supposed to equip youself? Quest rewards aren't adequate, why game gives me light armor or heavy armor or two handed or dog's poop when i'm medium armor archer? WHat i supposed to do with it?

We spent our physical and mental effort to get our loot. We making "work". Bots dont.

But, hey! Lets put into game Store items like "inexhaustible ore/wood/etc deposit", "Scroll of leveling craft to level 50 instantly", "bunch of gold", "in-game bot system", "instant V10 scroll", "blackjack and dirty argonian girls" and all other stuff.

Agreed with Sadique, for dungeon boss you get about 3 time less XP than for simple monster outside.

robert · April 2014

I sure hope that they made this timer effect both exp and loot and that it resets each time you kill the boss.

LadyDestiny · April 2014

I have seen bots leave to go sell their junk. One bot leaves the dungeon, comes back and then another out of the pack leaves and sometimes new bots load in while one or two leave. Witnessed this in more than one place. On another note, I am one of those little so called bad people that occasionally farm a dungeon for gold, gems and crafting materials, but for my personal use. Because I need gold to upgrade the high cost of everything, Mats to craft, because upgrading items seems to destoy more often than improve. Cannot get that amount of mats out on the world or from harvesting nodes. OH yeah and about the nodes, the stupid bots have those covered too so the real players are running out of options it seems.

KerinKor · April 2014

SuperScrubby wrote: »

I have never seen a GM.

You're not supposed to, that's the point!

WilliamTee · April 2014

Rantog wrote: »

So.. you would rather support counter measures that cause the ban of Innocents - such as many of us suffered last week - and have No Impact on the bot and spammer populations...

than paying a Human Being to get into the game and actually find and remove the bad elements manually - which skyrockets the cost of the bots operating?

You don't really think that is the most rational approach, do you?

Show me the evidence for anything you're saying.

I honestly doubt there were so many 'innocents' collaterally damaged.

The change has been live a day - how can we actually tell how it effects bots OR players?

Show me the games where GMs have become this 'miracle cure' you claim.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have them. I do believe they would be a significant help. But the evidence of other games proves they are no cure.

On another note I do find it interesting the change was live a full 24 hours before the patch notes were amended... How many people actually noticed?

MysticMonkey · April 2014

Playing a game and having fun is what this game is supposed to be all about - and I had high hopes that it would be so. Simply however the kind of nonsense a few people have inserted into the game wrecks the fun - and fyi bots aren't just in the dungeons anymore, they're after resource nodes as well. In the face of no immediate or at best a weak/wrong response by the administrators of the game to correct problem, I've decided to suspend my subscription. Maybe if I hear things improve I'll reinstate it, but there are so many other games out that satisfy my need to turn off for a while - well, what's the point paying a subscription fee just to face frustration in dealing with the mockingly obvious bots that have taken over, impotence being displayed by the operators of the franchise, and trying to come to grips with the worthless methodologies they suggest might help (not end) the problem. My opinion: the game's administrators at this point are complicit in the exacerbation of the problem; rather than fixing the problem they are further encouraging it.

Enjoy the bots peoples. Peace.

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

WilliamTee wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rantog wrote: »

On another note I do find it interesting the change was live a full 24 hours before the patch notes were amended... How many people actually noticed?

I didn't. There were more bots than ever before in each of the Daggerfall dungeons.

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

Sadique wrote: »

or get this, their bot program auto mails everything off to another account who does all the vendoring. Go look at the amount of xp you get for killing one of those mini bosses while 20 other people are also hitting it, its pretty much nothing.

Spend any time in the Daggerfall dungeons and you see bots levelling up. It might be slow but they are killing bosses 24/7. It adds up. Which is why we see the bot-tide slowly rising through the game.

Eventually they will be everywhere.

Fyrakin · April 2014

Or make dungeons instanced, limiting number of active characters per instance. How about that?

kamohs212eb17_ESO · April 2014

Than dungeons will be assaulted by bots and other people cant even go there because of no rooms.

kamohs212eb17_ESO · April 2014

I was thinking, what are public dungeons for?
1) Quests
2) Loot: soul gems, equipment, loot for sale and loot for destruction (craft leveling).
They can take apart public dungeon for 2 parts: main dungeon with quests and Boss's Room with timer. 5 ppl maximum capacity, one boss without respawn, internal timer, guarantee 5 blue items drop (maybe with very small chance for epic).

Soul gems... get off, how long time ago you saw someone using soul trap? Its more fast and easy stay a hour in dungeon and get enought since next ones.

Compensate unfarmed equipment by lowering NPC merchant's prices for armor/weapon (cmon, noone buying this stuff for this prices!) so players always can get adequate equipment every few levels.

Compensate loot for sale by makin' some daily quests with some money reward.

Compensate loot for destruction by makin' thing like craft leveling through research (maybe add some chance to fail research like its with improvement untill you put 5+ items with some threat). And improve XP gained for item creation.

And everyone will be happy.

P.S. Maybe they should make some several things:
Remove ore and wood deposites placed everywhere.
Move large ore deposites to mines, and wood to forest. Put some stone-pits/sawmills and move hirelings from skills. Make them resource merchants: you pay 1000g for 24h ore/forest harvest, after 24h you recieve mail with floating ammount of stuff like they do now.
In mines/forest make offline gathering, like "work for 1/2/.../8 hours" with 8 hours limit per day. And make char not able to do anything untill work will be done.

Even if botting, it will limit their farming capability.

Robbiejuve · April 2014

I disagree, its all about gold per hour. Logging out and waiting for the timer to expire means gold per hour for that particular account has reduced dramatically.

I don't think 10 mins is enough but I disagree that the new behavior will be waiting for the timer UNLESS that is still the best gold per hour attainable while botting in the game which I doubt it is because you could grind mobs and probably get better loot which is why we are going to see all of those scumbags in the open world from now on.

kamohs212eb17_ESO · April 2014

All botting is about gold per hour! Problem is bots can farm gold unlimited 24/7 on nonstop respawned bosses.
Mine offer is about limiting gold and resources one character may produce per day.

knaveofengland · April 2014

can see the points players are making ,but help show us all show the videos so we all can help stamp this out.
we all have our say but on our own there hundreds of posts so together we can show the evidence and let eso get rid of them,
team play work together after all it is a mmo and most still play solo

Alphashado · April 2014

Daverios wrote: »

This is NOT to combat bots. You could not be more wrong.

Let me repeat THIS IS NOT TO COMBAT BOTS.

Bots do not care about the loot. Only experience. You think a person running a dozen bots actually loots anything that is not stackable. Hint they do not and never did. Do you think they stop botting and run to town when inv full? Nope the delete it themselves.

This is 100% to combat farmers and griefers NOT bots. You know those annoying little #&(! $ that infest every delve doing the exact same thing as the bots hiding behind 'im a real person so its ok'. Those are the people that are in it for the loot. This is Zenimax telling you to bugger off as the rest of us have sent in thousands of reports against these jerkwads.

Gold stacks. And so do soul gems. And they sell for a ton of gold. Of course bots care about gold. It isn't candy canes and lolly pops they are advertising on their spam. Unless you think bots aren't a gold seller's hand maiden? What do you think the gathering bots do with iron and jute? Craft cool looking armor?

It is all about gold.

wrlifeboil · April 2014

kamohs212eb17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, yeah. Other games had gold sellers on second day of early access with prices like $30 for 100k gold (in TESO 100k gold is some money, dont you agree?).

GM may teleport between dungeons of 3 alliances randomly and ban bots he see. No need army of GMs, like 1 GM per dungeon. 2-3 GMs for whole megaserver will be okay.

Diablo 3 had gold sellers on the day of the launch. The gold spams started that early. I remember the price on 1 million gold, yes 1 million gold, dropped from more than $20 to around $13-$15 on the first day. The price then fell to less than $3 by the time that Blizzard put the rmah for gold sales online. When the legitimate gold farmers started selling on the rmah the price per million gold crashed to the $1 floor price. The devs were totally befuddled. Real life economics in action, not just from a college economics course textbook.

murklor007neb18_ESO · April 2014

I wonder why no one seems to imagine a way to resolve this with AI? Make the bosses smart and random.

The boss spawn with an invouln shield up and knocks all of them away in a random direction. Bots cannot predict landing location.

Boss spawn with reflective shield upp, instakilling anyone that try to melee it in the first few seconds. Bots cannot tell if the boss need ranged weapons

Boss spawn and teleport 20m in a random direction while dropping AoE on the original location. bots cannot predict where the boss will be.

Boss doesnt spawn, it make 5 strong adds in random locations that all need to die first. Bots dont know how many targets there are.

Boss spawn and reflect all ranged damage for a short period. Bots cannot only stay at range.

Boss is on a random timer. Bots cannot time attacks.

Etc and so on.

Bollerlotte · April 2014

i totally agree with the topic

Arthur_Spoonfondle · April 2014

kamohs212eb17_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

byghostlightrwb17_ESO wrote: »

its amazing how many people think real players should be able to farm but bots shouldnt. Both groups are just milking the same exploit, hole, oversight.

Dont you think you a bit wrong about it?
"Work - a process that requires the application of mental or physical effort, which puts its purpose getting a certain result". You farm mobs = you get loot. You spent your time and mental effort by staring monitor in waiting when boss respawn, then doing some actions and back to waiting.

I'm looking on public dungeons as alternative way to get crafting materials. Hey, game resources are limited, at least by in-game space. You can walk for half-hour and didnt see even a single wood or ore to harvest! How you supposed to equip youself? Quest rewards aren't adequate, why game gives me light armor or heavy armor or two handed or dog's poop when i'm medium armor archer? WHat i supposed to do with it?

We spent our physical and mental effort to get our loot. We making "work". Bots dont.

But, hey! Lets put into game Store items like "inexhaustible ore/wood/etc deposit", "Scroll of leveling craft to level 50 instantly", "bunch of gold", "in-game bot system", "instant V10 scroll", "blackjack and dirty argonian girls" and all other stuff.

Agreed with Sadique, for dungeon boss you get about 3 time less XP than for simple monster outside.

People like you are no better than the bots and need to be stopped as well. You are having exactly the same effect on other players as the bots. Just like the bots you are preventing other people from completing quests and getting loot because you are selfish and lazy.

No-one needs to loot a boss more than once to complete a quest. The lock-out should be extended to 24 hours, preferably with dungeons instanced. If you want crafting mats, get out there and look for them, like the considerate players do.

Blackwidow · April 2014

They need to make the boss a ONE time thing, period. For everyone.

Nobody should be standing around killing a boss over and over, not even a few minutes apart.

How is this not implemented?

Do the dungeon, kill the boss, get your blue item and go away.

Reymas · April 2014

Even better, just make it so that once you kill and the loot the boss, it never respawns for you. Once it's dead, phase the place out, give everyone the blue and they can never kill that boss again on that character because they are in a new phase.

Boom.

Aenra · April 2014

Don't know how many of you will read this, but let me pinpoint that in THIS case it is as much our fault as theirs. Stop splitting hairs, stop posting even if you are incapable of productive thought.

They deal with the consequences of an issue. It's called ramification. YOU DO TOO. By further ramifying, passing judgement and many a 'what ifs'.
Cease the critique on how to handle the outcome of a problem, and press them on the problem. Security. Two pages long of this is good, no this is actually unfair, maybe timers, maybe instanced, this or that.

If you can't think for yourselves..why should others do it for you?

And there already -are- threads about their security systems. Bump those and cease the daily quest posting. Humble opinion, feel free to call it aggressive, ignore it, and keep dealing with the surface.