The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
ZoS incompetence rears its head again (re: initial champion points nerf)
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onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
The OP of this thread demonstrated 3 superior ideas (which weren't even radical, they were literally just variations on the 30 CPs points base, I could design even better ideas if I spent, oh, lets say, 60 seconds thinking about it). The fact that some random player like me could come up with 3 superior ideas to the PAID staff at ZoS whose JOB IT IS to manage this game speaks volumes.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_MichelleA on December 21, 2014 7:16PM1 -
Epsilon_Echo✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »Epsilon_Echo wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »This is just as pathetic as those silly undaunted pledge complaint threads.
snip...
That being that everyone who is VR14 is a cheater and should have nothing to show for their work. You must believe that, if you don't then your desire to "punish" grinders is so strong that you're willing to crush legit players spirits to dust, wich is a special kind of sad.
...snip
I didn't say anything like that. You assume too much and are putting words in my mouth to make an argument. That's a form of the straw man argument.
You should know on my first VR14 (a sorcerer who now just crafts for my other characters) I did much of the VR leveling by grinding Craglorn bosses because VR leveling was just too onerous for me. The other VRs I didn't grind Craglorn bosses. Craglorn boss XP was way out of whack which is why people chose to grind them. It was "cheating" or "exploiting" if you prefer but not all VR14s got that way by grinding Craglorn mobs. So don't put words in my mouth.
I used to be upset about the lack of a Craglorn grind because VR leveling was so onerous; I freely admit it. But once I realized how ZOS equalized XP gain by tracking our XP earned and making the system more fair, I realized I was wrong. You can still "grind" just mobs if that is what you like to do but doing so won't (or shouldn't, as there might be more work that needs to be done) put you at an advantage to those people who don't like grinding and would rather do quests or whatever.
VR is the old world; it is going away. Any sense of "achievement" from such activity is going to be meaningless as the VR system is going away. But maybe for people with such a strong sense of entitlement ZOS should give them a special title like "Former VR14 Snowflake" to acknowledge all their "hard work" at playing a game.
If people complaining about this had no alternatives I might be sympathetic to all the QQ. But as it stands and as I've already said, you are not prohibited from leveling new characters to earn CPs. But that was never really the issue; it was just a convenient excuse to hang an argument on. The real issue is a sense of entitlement and the idea that you should be rewarded for "hard work" in a game. Well, like I said, maybe you will get a special title or something.
The CP system is the new reality and it will make for a better game. Personally, I am excited about it and I don't feel like I need some special acknowledgement for having VR14 characters. In order for the CP system to work and be fair going forward the playing field needs to be made level and that seems reasonable. This is something of a "do over".
Well at least addressing your got a nice response. And since you took the time explain why you feel the way you do I am more inclined to sympathize with you...
But I don't.
You see, that quote of yours marks why my opinon, of your opinion holds. I cared nothing for ranks or titles, I care about play time = skills earned, which leads to more play time for me. But since ZoS refused to honor that formula, I miss out. For that you call me entitled ( not putting words in your mouth). Now they are poised to do it again, despite this time promising otherwise. Do they OWE me something? Nope. But I don't OWE them my sub fee. I pay because of the formula mentioned above. If that starts to routinely break down...1 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, I spent 60 seconds thinking this time.
Idea 4:
- You gain the greater of the following two numbers of CPs when the Champion System goes live, with a CAP of 50 CPs:
A. You gain 1 Champion point for every 1 million XP you've earned on all your VR characters.
B. You gain 30 CPs.
Examples:
- You have only 1 VR1 character. You gain 30 CPs. (due to B )
- You have 1 VR 14 and 1 VR 5. You gain 30 CPs. (due to B )
- You have 2 VR14s, and a VR5, all of which are exactly those levels (no extra XP earned). You gain 14+14+5 = 33 CPs.
- You have 1 VR14 but gained 20 million EXP on it since ZoS announced the Champion System and promised the XP earned would count: You gain 34 CPs.
- You have 8 VR14s (regardless of XP). You gain 50 CPs (you hit cap)
Difference between the lowest possible char and highest possible char: 20 CP difference (30 vs 50).
Again, I am a random player and spent precisely 60 seconds thinking of this solution, not a paid game designer hired by ZoS.Edited by onlinegamer1 on December 21, 2014 7:05PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.Edited by Sharee on December 21, 2014 7:08PM4 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''. They said there would be a cap and it would be so high that probably no one would reach it. 30 CP is not '' so high no one can reach it'' ...
That's why people are mad. Lies and deception.
It's beginning to smell like Trion in here...2 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would just like to post a few screenshots, to show that not all players with one or several VR14 grinded to get there. It's quite the opposite in my opinion.
She is my 2nd character, the one for which I pushed the achievements the furthest. Including my other characters, I should have around 100 played days (2400 hours).
I'm also one of the crazy players who spent hundreds of hours crafting and making spreadsheets to keep track of everything, even though it gives 0 XP, 0 champion points and is barely useful at endgame.
Research sheet, one filled cell = one research completed, currently 800+
Not everybody commits the same way into a game. I went all in for ESO and do not play any other game on the side. I did not grind and do not want to be assimilated with players who rushed the content.Wololo.4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
Imagine for a second that you weren't a fanboi troll, and ZoS specifically told you earning XP prior to 1.6 would grant you additional CPs. Now imagine that, instead of doing PvP (which you enjoy), you decided to roll a lvl 1, get it to 50, and then start going thru Cadwell's Silver and Gold with it. You didn't necessarly want to do that, but you thought that since ZoS just SAID that those extra VR levels/xp would give you more CPs, and that CPs were account wide, it would benefit you.
Now imagine you find out ZoS lied, and you wasted your time. But you PAID ZOS A MONTHLY FEE FOR THAT.
You really should try not being a fanboi, it can really open your eyes.
They promised you that you would get an initial amount of CP, up to a cap.
You got an initial amount of CP, and the cap is 30.
Everything else is drama.
"But i would have gotten them even if i did not earn XP!" - yes
"But the other players are getting them for free!" - yes.
Fact remains, you got exactly what they promised you would get - 30 CP.4 -
Epsilon_Echo✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
Give the noobs all the free CPs they want. The issue is that
1. The points are not enough to compensate for time played
2. The time played (questing) cannot be made up.
Unless you want to say we should grind for the rest of the missing points, and we know how ZOS feels about grinding as of late...Edited by Epsilon_Echo on December 21, 2014 7:20PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
Give the noobs all the free CPs they want. The issue is that
1. The points are not enough to compensate for time played
2. The time played (questing) cannot be made up.
Unless you want to say we should grind for the rest of the missing points, and we know how ZOS feels about grinding as of late...
You feel the cap is too low. That is your right. I imagine ZOS spent some time evaluating what the cap should be, weighting the pros (more=happy players) and cons (more=too big a gap between the haves and have nots).
As far as grinding - remember there are so many CP points to be earned that it will take years. There will be new opportunities for earning them in those years (new zones etc.)2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »The sense of arrogant entitlement is thick on this thread. Your character isn't losing anything that they have. They're just not stacking up freebies before a new system is even released. Nothing that they do would be good enough for the bitter crowd anyhow.
Allowing some people to start with huge blocks of CPs would create huge balance problems (everything too easy); it would make it hard for have nots to get groups (looking for tank 500+ CPs) etc.
But, no ,its somehow that people are having somethibg stolen because they're at the current cap.
Jesus.
Exactly. Not to mention many of these folks "exploited" during the early periods of the game to gain advantage. Leveling the playing field is a good thing (if that is in fact what is going to happen).
You keep throwing out the red herring of "exploiting" but it's not doing anything for your argument because it's completely irrelevant and actually contrary to your position. Anyone who did do grinding skipped the quests and can still access the quest content in the CP system so how does that level the playing field again? Anyone who likes to grind will be able to continue doing that in the CP system so nothing is lost. It's those of us who actually completed the content (and enjoy that style of play) who are losing because we can't do that content again to gain CP. Eventually, some of you will get this through your thick skulls.
Because grinding XP is more or less on par with quest XP or so they claim as that was the point of the XP tracking and you can always level a new character to get quest XP or delete a character and level a new one as the CPs earned are account wide.
Are you seriously suggesting that it's fair or equal for max level characters to start over at lvl 1 to access the quest content and gain CP? Wow. You are even more deranged than I thought. If max level characters are expected to do that then they should start everyone over at 1 to be fair but I bet if they did that you and others would wail and cry about how unfair that is. At least it would be unfair equally to all instead of affecting some in a huge way and others not at all.2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
Give the noobs all the free CPs they want. The issue is that
1. The points are not enough to compensate for time played
2. The time played (questing) cannot be made up.
Unless you want to say we should grind for the rest of the missing points, and we know how ZOS feels about grinding as of late...
You feel the cap is too low. That is your right. I imagine ZOS spent some time evaluating what the cap should be, weighting the pros (more=happy players) and cons (more=too big a gap between the haves and have nots).
As far as grinding - remember there are so many CP points to be earned that it will take years. There will be new opportunities for earning them in those years (new zones etc.)
First, ZOS spending time to actually do something right ? Lol ?
Second, the way champion system works, even if people had 100 points more than you, they wouldn't have that much of an advantage over you, why do you not want them to have the points they deserve exactly ? What does it change for YOU ? (Note that I don't have a VR14, would not gain anything from ZOS actually giving the CPs they said they would)Edited by Averya_Teira on December 21, 2014 7:28PM2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
You have to remember that they drastically reduced the amount of CP that go into the trees. They talked about this during the live. IIRC from 400 to 100.
Translated into the 30 point cap, it would originally have been a 120 point cap(you can buy for 30 points the same as you could for 120 points under the old system).
4hours/point, times 120 = 480 hours. Take an average player, 2 hours/day gameplay, that's 240 days. That's almost as long as the game has been out.Edited by Sharee on December 21, 2014 7:33PM2 -
Epsilon_Echo✭✭✭✭Epsilon_Echo wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
Give the noobs all the free CPs they want. The issue is that
1. The points are not enough to compensate for time played
2. The time played (questing) cannot be made up.
Unless you want to say we should grind for the rest of the missing points, and we know how ZOS feels about grinding as of late...
You feel the cap is too low. That is your right. I imagine ZOS spent some time evaluating what the cap should be, weighting the pros (more=happy players) and cons (more=too big a gap between the haves and have nots).
As far as grinding - remember there are so many CP points to be earned that it will take years. There will be new opportunities for earning them in those years (new zones etc.)
Your arguments are the only ones here of the "this is all okay" crowd that make any sence. That being said, the whole situation reeks of "well pay you overtime for your 120hr work week ( 40hrs symbolizing a faction playthrough), here's 20$ and a muffin. Also the guys that didn't work overtime will be paid regular wages as they go. But not you, I might have work for you later".
0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sure those players that don't play much or level slowly are loving this, but in the end, it's really not fair to some of us.
Anyone who grinded xp in the hope of gaining an initial advantage in the CP amount knew he is risking being over the cap already and not getting anything from his grind(since the actual cap was unknown).
I have four veteran characters and i am not bothered by this.
What does grinding have to do with anything? I have two max level characters and I didn't grind. In fact, anyone who did grind is probably benefiting if they skipped the quests because they can still go back and do the content they skipped and get XP for the CP system. It's the people who *didn't* grind and actually completed all the content on 1 or more characters that are getting screwed here.
If i understand you correctly, you feel you are getting screwed because you no longer can get your CP from quests that you already have done.
ZOS said they want all activities in game to reward roughly the same CP. That includes activities typically done by capped characters who already completed all static content, i.e you. So you should not be screwed in any way, even if you cannot do the quests anymore. Just do what you typically do and you should gain CP at the same rate as the player who quests.
Personally, i am going to get my CP from the cyrodiil dailies (during the live they said they are going to make them very rewarding, CP-wise)
What do I do at max level? Once a week I might do a trial (new activity for me). That isn't going to be much XP.
You have no idea how much XP it's going to be, because it is being rebalanced. The people at Zenimax DO know they have maxed players like you, and they DO want them to have a fair shot at gaining CP, no matter what their favorite activity is.
Also, if you really going to play that little, you will greatly profit from the inspiration system (basically you will earn CP at 4x normal rate all the time you do play)
Play that little? I play every day for 2 or more hours a day. I wouldn't call that "little".
Dude. I was reacting to what you wrote:What do I do at max level? Once a week I might do a trial (new activity for me). That isn't going to be much XP
You are claiming that you wont be getting much XP because all you do is a trial once a week. And then you are surprised when people comment on you playing little?So I guess they are going to start awarding XP for the activity of looking for a group?
In a way. If you are not earning XP(because you are looking for group or whatever), your inspiration enlightement is ticking up.
I didn't say all I did was one trial per week. I was listing different activities. One of which is trials but I don't do trials every day. Get it? If you continued reading past that one sentence I would think that would be clear but I guess for some everything has to be spelled out in simple terms.
So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.1 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Epsilon_Echo wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
Give the noobs all the free CPs they want. The issue is that
1. The points are not enough to compensate for time played
2. The time played (questing) cannot be made up.
Unless you want to say we should grind for the rest of the missing points, and we know how ZOS feels about grinding as of late...
You feel the cap is too low. That is your right. I imagine ZOS spent some time evaluating what the cap should be, weighting the pros (more=happy players) and cons (more=too big a gap between the haves and have nots).
As far as grinding - remember there are so many CP points to be earned that it will take years. There will be new opportunities for earning them in those years (new zones etc.)
First, ZOS spending time to actually do something right ? Lol ?
Second, the way champion system works, even if people had 100 points more than you, they wouldn't have that much of an advantage over you, why do you not want them to have the points they deserve exactly ? What does it change for YOU ? (Note that I don't have a VR14, would not gain anything from ZOS actually giving the CPs they said they would)
Just to make things clear, i have four veteran rank characters. That means *I* would likely be the one gaining an advantage over others if ZOS did not decide to go with a flat 30CP starting pool for everyone.
So why am in not fighting tooth and nail for the other side of the argument? Because i believe everyone starting on equal ground is a good thing.Edited by Sharee on December 21, 2014 7:42PM5 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
You are wrong. That is all.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grindgrind
(grīnd)
v. ground (ground), grind·ing, grinds
4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study: the daily grind.
17. laborious, usu. uninteresting work.
Grinding in relation to gaming is not a dictionary term it's a gaming term. I guess if you are not much of a gamer I can see where the confusion sets in but grinding is not questing. Those are not the same. The whole idea of grinding is an alternative to questing so how can they be the same? In EQ the only option you had was grinding..there was not questing for XP. Grinding means killing mobs over and over for XP. There were different grind spots. That never had any correlation to questing. Ever.
Some may hate questing but that doesn't make it grinding. You might be entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Sorry.2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
You are wrong. That is all.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grindgrind
(grīnd)
v. ground (ground), grind·ing, grinds
4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study: the daily grind.
17. laborious, usu. uninteresting work.
Grinding in relation to gaming is not a dictionary term it's a gaming term.
If there are multiple possible definitions of grinding then you can not claim people are wrong when they use the other definition than the one you meant. That was my point.
If i say that doing quests repeatedly is grinding for me, nobody is in a position to say i am wrong. Because one of the definitions of grinding equals it to 'repetitive, laborious, uninteresting work', and for some, that's exactly what repetitive questing is.
0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
It has nothing to do with other players but rather some representation of the XP earned from vet content. If 30 CP was somehow representative of the 20 million XP earned while doing vet content then fine but we all know that is completely untrue. It's not unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 free CP..nobody cares about that. It's unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 CP *AND* still has access to 20 million or more XP that is represented by the veteran content. That's it. Nothing else.Edited by EQBallzz on December 21, 2014 7:51PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭t's unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 CP *AND* still has access to 20 million or more XP that is represented by the veteran content. That's it. Nothing else.
You cannot earn XP from the quests you already did. But you can earn XP from other activities(ZOS stated they are going to make all activities reward the same CP).
And there is new content coming that you will be able to play to earn your CP. 2 new zones coming in a few months. Capping CP will take years. The game will evolve in that time, giving you new opportunities to get your CP.
1 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
You are wrong. That is all.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grindgrind
(grīnd)
v. ground (ground), grind·ing, grinds
4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study: the daily grind.
17. laborious, usu. uninteresting work.
Grinding in relation to gaming is not a dictionary term it's a gaming term.
If there are multiple possible definitions of grinding then you can not claim people are wrong when they use the other definition than the one you meant. That was my point.
If i say that doing quests repeatedly is grinding for me, nobody is in a position to say i am wrong. Because one of the definitions of grinding equals it to 'repetitive, laborious, uninteresting work', and for some, that's exactly what repetitive questing is.
There are plenty of terms that relate to gaming and don't have the same or identical meaning outside of gaming. If you want to purposely use the term incorrectly for the benefit of proving your point that's your own misinformed decision but it doesn't change the term definition as it relates to gaming.2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭t's unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 CP *AND* still has access to 20 million or more XP that is represented by the veteran content. That's it. Nothing else.
You cannot earn XP from the quests you already did. But you can earn XP from other activities(ZOS stated they are going to make all activities reward the same CP).
And there is new content coming that you will be able to play to earn your CP. 2 new zones coming in a few months. Capping CP will take years. The game will evolve in that time, giving you new opportunities to get your CP.
Just because there will be future content doesn't mean anything. Everyone at max level now will still be out those 20 million XP points and will *always* be out that XP while those hitting V1 at the time of the champion system will also get the new content in addition to the 20 million XP from silver and gold content. No future content changes that.
You keep mentioning "other" activities but some of us are primarily PvE players so PvP is not viable as an activity and with little/no quests to do what "other" activities are you talking about? Grinding? So everyone who completed vet content now has to endlessly grind mobs for XP as their primary way to access CP? That's absurd and doesn't even fit into the scheme of the game since grinding isn't even a ZOS sanctioned activity.
Why do you care so much about others getting CP that correlates to the XP they gained already? The power of CP is weighted to the front end so it already has safeguards in place to keep any player separation from being too great. Any conversion was already going to be at a lower than 1 to 1 ratio and capped so why demand more and more to the point that hundreds of hours are for nothing for some players but worth full CP value for others?4 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
It has nothing to do with other players but rather some representation of the XP earned from vet content. If 30 CP was somehow representative of the 20 million XP earned while doing vet content then fine but we all know that is completely untrue. It's not unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 free CP..nobody cares about that. It's unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 CP *AND* still has access to 20 million or more XP that is represented by the veteran content. That's it. Nothing else.
would it make you feel better if they choose to instead reset all level 50 and level 50 plus quests and give nobody any champion system points ?onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
You are wrong. That is all.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grindgrind
(grīnd)
v. ground (ground), grind·ing, grinds
4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study: the daily grind.
17. laborious, usu. uninteresting work.
Grinding in relation to gaming is not a dictionary term it's a gaming term.
If there are multiple possible definitions of grinding then you can not claim people are wrong when they use the other definition than the one you meant. That was my point.
If i say that doing quests repeatedly is grinding for me, nobody is in a position to say i am wrong. Because one of the definitions of grinding equals it to 'repetitive, laborious, uninteresting work', and for some, that's exactly what repetitive questing is.
There are plenty of terms that relate to gaming and don't have the same or identical meaning outside of gaming. If you want to purposely use the term incorrectly for the benefit of proving your point that's your own misinformed decision but it doesn't change the term definition as it relates to gaming.
you can grind quests , mobs , dungeons , or skill lines .
every thing in the game is a grind , that does not mean that every thing in the game is unpleasant .
you grind quests by grabbing every quest in a quest hub doing them then turning them in before moving to the next hub.
you grind dungeons by forming a group and running dungeons back to back .
you grind mobs by finding a location with a high respawn rate of mobs that give a decent amount of XP based on being solo or in a group .
you grind skill lines by using them or focusing on the actions that progress them .3 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
The cap isnt 30. Nobody other than Players ever mentioned the Cap at 30. Only thing that was said is everybody with at least 1 vet char gets 30 points. Nothing else. No word about cap. That word never appeared on the livestream when they talked about the champ system.
So THERE IS NO 30 POINT CAP!!!
Theres only 30 initial points. They just failed to get further because Maria got interrupted all the time.4 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭With 1.7 more people will claim they will quit because they earned their VR14 but now its a level 50 like everyone else who did not play as much time as them.4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are plenty of terms that relate to gaming and don't have the same or identical meaning outside of gaming.
That is correct.If you want to purposely use the term incorrectly
Incorrectly? That the terms have different possible meanings does not mean the other meanings are incorrect!for the benefit of proving your point that's your own misinformed decision but it doesn't change the term definition as it relates to gaming.
But we are not changing the term definition as it relates to gaming. We are debating whether someone is wrong when he says he considers questing to be a grind.
And the answer to that is no. Because your 'gaming' definition is not the only correct one.
1