nerevarine1138 wrote: »Simply stating, "I disagree," does not constitute an opinion. If you disagree, then you need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, since it's been going on this entire thread. If someone disagrees with your post and doesn't have the intelligence or willpower to explain why, they don't deserve to be heard. This is a forum, not a ballot box.
Then why disagree at all, if you've no valid point (or counterpoint) to make? Just watch the debate and offer no input at all, if said input holds zero value.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Not every communication has to be a debate. If you're into debate, bully for you. Not everyone wants to fight, and they shouldn't be obligated to waste words to satisfy your thirst for argument.
Incorrect. Agreement requires no explanation, whereas disagreement does. It's Communications 101, friend.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »You're painting agreement as good, and disagreement as bad, and therefore disagreement as something that needs to be justified. In reality, agreement and disagreement are equal, they are just preferences, and do not require explanation or justification.
GrimGryphon wrote: »williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »
Also, that's a total cop out. Most other avenues of forum communication are able to adultly deal with the concept of a down-tick. Disqus and Facebook, two of the most widely used forum architectures, both have down-ticks, and somehow people manage to use them without devolving into the dystopian wasteland of unhappiness that you predict.
How Upvote/Downvote Sites like Reddit Breed Irrational Herd Behavior
williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Simply stating, "I disagree," does not constitute an opinion. If you disagree, then you need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, since it's been going on this entire thread. If someone disagrees with your post and doesn't have the intelligence or willpower to explain why, they don't deserve to be heard. This is a forum, not a ballot box.
Yes, it does constitute an opinion. No, you do not need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.
This is all just people talking to each other. There is no "need." This "need" you keep bringing up over and over again is just you, telling other people how to manage their preferences and communication. Nobody gives a big wet fart about your ideas on who "deserves" what. Communication isn't a conflict between people wherein they pit their "intelligence" or "willpower" against one another. It's just a way to pass the time.
So chillax already. Maybe take a couple good breaths and stop insisting people talk to each other like how you want them to talk to each other.
Then why disagree at all, if you've no valid point (or counterpoint) to make? Just watch the debate and offer no input at all, if said input holds zero value.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Not every communication has to be a debate. If you're into debate, bully for you. Not everyone wants to fight, and they shouldn't be obligated to waste words to satisfy your thirst for argument.
Incorrect. Agreement requires no explanation, whereas disagreement does. It's Communications 101, friend.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »You're painting agreement as good, and disagreement as bad, and therefore disagreement as something that needs to be justified. In reality, agreement and disagreement are equal, they are just preferences, and do not require explanation or justification.
williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Then why disagree at all, if you've no valid point (or counterpoint) to make? Just watch the debate and offer no input at all, if said input holds zero value.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Not every communication has to be a debate. If you're into debate, bully for you. Not everyone wants to fight, and they shouldn't be obligated to waste words to satisfy your thirst for argument.
You don't get to assign value. If I want to disagree with you, that's my business. Your assessment of value is of zero value.Incorrect. Agreement requires no explanation, whereas disagreement does. It's Communications 101, friend.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »You're painting agreement as good, and disagreement as bad, and therefore disagreement as something that needs to be justified. In reality, agreement and disagreement are equal, they are just preferences, and do not require explanation or justification.
That is not an academic criteria of communication, that is pulled completely out of your buttocks. Neither agreement nor disagreement "require" any explanation, because, as you've failed to understand, over, and over, and over, AND OVER again, nobody here owes you anything.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Simply stating, "I disagree," does not constitute an opinion. If you disagree, then you need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, since it's been going on this entire thread. If someone disagrees with your post and doesn't have the intelligence or willpower to explain why, they don't deserve to be heard. This is a forum, not a ballot box.
Yes, it does constitute an opinion. No, you do not need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.
This is all just people talking to each other. There is no "need." This "need" you keep bringing up over and over again is just you, telling other people how to manage their preferences and communication. Nobody gives a big wet fart about your ideas on who "deserves" what. Communication isn't a conflict between people wherein they pit their "intelligence" or "willpower" against one another. It's just a way to pass the time.
So chillax already. Maybe take a couple good breaths and stop insisting people talk to each other like how you want them to talk to each other.
This is a forum, not a street corner.
If you're going to disagree with a point someone makes, then the generally accepted rules of civil discourse say that you have to back up your disagreement with something other than, "We all have opinions, dude."
I don't care if you feel like your voice is being silenced because you're being forced to make an argument. This is a forum for debate. That's why forums exist: discussion and debate. If you don't want to take part in that, don't. But don't demand a button that lets you troll people while you refuse to take part in the discourse.
Okay, I invite you to try something. Get into a conversation with someone. Once they make a point, simply state, "I disagree," adding nothing. Then observe how the person with whom you're conversing responds.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »That is not an academic criteria of communication, that is pulled completely out of your buttocks. Neither agreement nor disagreement "require" any explanation, because, as you've failed to understand, over, and over, and over, AND OVER again, nobody here owes you anything.
Okay, I invite you to try something. Get into a conversation with someone. Once they make a point, simply state, "I disagree," adding nothing. Then observe how the person with whom you're conversing responds.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »That is not an academic criteria of communication, that is pulled completely out of your buttocks. Neither agreement nor disagreement "require" any explanation, because, as you've failed to understand, over, and over, and over, AND OVER again, nobody here owes you anything.
Try it out.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sure. It's your business. Except you've decided to voice your disagreement in a public forum, which means that it's now our business. And you owe anyone reading your post a decent argument backing up your position.
williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sure. It's your business. Except you've decided to voice your disagreement in a public forum, which means that it's now our business. And you owe anyone reading your post a decent argument backing up your position.
No, I don't. Why is this so very hard for you to understand?
You're sitting at some kind of screen and input. I'm sitting at some kind of screen and input. We both have equal power here, which is limited to pasting words on a screen. You can't make me do anything, no matter how hard you whine and insist. Your power is limited to suggestion, and that's all.
I don't owe you a thing. Not a jot, and there's nothing in the world you can do about it. Appeal to as many mythical etiquettes as you want. Cite. Beg. Cajole. Plead. Threaten. None of it means anything, because your ability to coerce ends at my ability to resist your coercion.
It's just you, having a tantrum, insisting over and over that you should get your way. And here's me, just simply saying nope.
Oh yes, they do!williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »You don't get to say that this forum is for debate.
williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Sorry kid, you don't always get what you want.
Oh yes, they do!williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »You don't get to say that this forum is for debate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Oh yes, they do!williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »You don't get to say that this forum is for debate.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
nerevarine1138 wrote: »williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Simply stating, "I disagree," does not constitute an opinion. If you disagree, then you need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, since it's been going on this entire thread. If someone disagrees with your post and doesn't have the intelligence or willpower to explain why, they don't deserve to be heard. This is a forum, not a ballot box.
Yes, it does constitute an opinion. No, you do not need to explain yourself. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.
This is all just people talking to each other. There is no "need." This "need" you keep bringing up over and over again is just you, telling other people how to manage their preferences and communication. Nobody gives a big wet fart about your ideas on who "deserves" what. Communication isn't a conflict between people wherein they pit their "intelligence" or "willpower" against one another. It's just a way to pass the time.
So chillax already. Maybe take a couple good breaths and stop insisting people talk to each other like how you want them to talk to each other.
This is a forum, not a street corner.
If you're going to disagree with a point someone makes, then the generally accepted rules of civil discourse say that you have to back up your disagreement with something other than, "We all have opinions, dude."
I don't care if you feel like your voice is being silenced because you're being forced to make an argument. This is a forum for debate. That's why forums exist: discussion and debate. If you don't want to take part in that, don't. But don't demand a button that lets you troll people while you refuse to take part in the discourse.
Seems to me you nailed it then ...williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »Some of these people insist that it should only be used to argue endlessly with each other over trivial nonsense.
williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »[And at least two of you are using the LOL button right here, right now, to disagree.
PolskiBunny_ESO wrote: »I think this thread does a better job at reminding Zenimax why the disagree button can't be reinstated or it will get abused than successfully making an argument on how it would be productive and magical.
Nothing is stopping any of you from writing 'disagree' as a one word post, but we'll know who you are when you write it. If you want to anonymously discredit someone, go to another forum.
Nothing is stopping any of you from writing 'disagree' as a one word post, but we'll know who you are when you write it. If you want to anonymously discredit someone, go to another forum.
You could argue that knowing someone's name on here isn't really knowing them Well assuming you don't use an obscure 'handle' for all of your Internet accounts that pretty much makes you stick out like a sore thumb. Right @SFBryan18 ?
nerevarine1138 wrote: »williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Sure. It's your business. Except you've decided to voice your disagreement in a public forum, which means that it's now our business. And you owe anyone reading your post a decent argument backing up your position.
No, I don't. Why is this so very hard for you to understand?
You're sitting at some kind of screen and input. I'm sitting at some kind of screen and input. We both have equal power here, which is limited to pasting words on a screen. You can't make me do anything, no matter how hard you whine and insist. Your power is limited to suggestion, and that's all.
I don't owe you a thing. Not a jot, and there's nothing in the world you can do about it. Appeal to as many mythical etiquettes as you want. Cite. Beg. Cajole. Plead. Threaten. None of it means anything, because your ability to coerce ends at my ability to resist your coercion.
It's just you, having a tantrum, insisting over and over that you should get your way. And here's me, just simply saying nope.
You're right. I can't make you do anything. I can, however, use a forum system that doesn't use a "disagree button," and encourage the wider community to be halfway intelligent and demand some form of discussion beyond "yes" and "no." So by using this forum, I can actually rob you of your power to simply click a button and claim that it constitutes an argument. You don't get to do that here. So sorry.
This isn't about your rights (this is a private message board), and it isn't about what I can or can't force you to do. It's about how we want discourse on this board to be. And guess what? For all the tantrums you've been throwing, you still insist on making a point when you disagree. Why? I'd wager it's because you'd like to be taken somewhat seriously.
Okay, I invite you to try something. Get into a conversation with someone. Once they make a point, simply state, "I disagree," adding nothing. Then observe how the person with whom you're conversing responds.williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »That is not an academic criteria of communication, that is pulled completely out of your buttocks. Neither agreement nor disagreement "require" any explanation, because, as you've failed to understand, over, and over, and over, AND OVER again, nobody here owes you anything.
Try it out.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »If people are too lazy to formulate an argument, then I'll gladly think that they found something funny in my post. Let them be lazy, and their vote can stand as a testament to their inability to put forward any kind of coherent argument in favor of their position.
I'm pretty sure your LOL's fall into the disagree category.
If you're referring to how I use my LOL votes (which you have no way of actually knowing), I only use them to indicate that I find a post genuinely funny. If I don't agree with your point and consider it worth debating, I'll respond in a post.