Tweak to the Guild Trader System: Regional Markets

Rodario

The idea is to leave the guild trader infrastructure intact, but to change how they work to allow regional, open markets.

How it would work:

Regional Markets are formed by linking all Guild Traders within any given region, which means they will all show the same inventory.

Instead of bidding on an individual guild trader, any guild can pay a weekly fee to participate in a regional market. This means buyers will have access to a lot more guild stores at once and reduce the need to visit trader after trader, searching for a specific item, or the best deal.

Obviously some markets will be more popular than others, so while the listing fee will be the same for all guilds within a region, it will differ from region to region. I believe the relative sales volume within a market should determine the fee within a set range e.g. 10'000-250'000 from least to most popular. This will be recalculated on a weekly basis.

I suggest all regional markets' fees start at 50'000 when the system goes live. After the first week and recalculation, fees will start to differ greatly.

After a while the most popular markets will have crystallized and the most successful trading guilds will offer their wares there, while aspiring new guilds and non-trading guilds will participate in the less popular zones. Some of them will work their way up, as more funds become available (More active sellers/saving up).

Optional changes/additions/gold sinks:

- Introduce guild levels and trees (PvE/PvP/Trade) to spend points in. Advances in the trade tree would be earned via guild store income and unlock perks such as lower listing fees, or the ability to participate in multiple markets.

- Allow any player to sell in the regional market outside of guild stores. Apply double or triple the guild store listing and/or sales fee.

- Give guilds the option to pay for multiple weeks in advance, at the current price. They could speculate on a market to become more popular and expensive in the future. If their assumptions are correct, they save on fees for a few weeks. Or, they could be wrong and overpay.

For this to make sense in the most popular markets, give a 10% discount on prepaying 5 weeks' fees, 20% for 10 or more. Here, they'd be speculating on their market staying the most popular one.

Ideas/Suggestions from comments:

- [EDIT 05.09.2014 Idea by @Nazon_Katts‌] Introduce buy orders. Interested buyers who feel the prices for their desired item are too high would be able to place a buy order in the market of their choice. Sellers may be enticed by the idea of an immediate sale and fulfill such an order. {Note: This system exists in at least one game I know of and seems to work very well there.}

Thanks for reading, discuss.

ItsMeToo

Sounds like a bunch of AHs to me. No thanks

Rodario

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Sounds like a bunch of AHs to me. No thanks

@ItsMeToo‌ The guild stores in their current form are a bunch of AHs too, just in greater amount and with less inventory.

Rodario

I really think this would be the best compromise between the fractured, guild centered market ZOS designed, which many players like, and the convenient global market situation many players desire.

babylon

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Sounds like a bunch of AHs to me. No thanks

@Rodario beat me to it .. your reason for objecting is invalid, as the system you support is exactly the same for all intents and purposes as regional ones.

SFBryan18

Ooops, wrong thread... :P

Anu_Saukko_Tutkija

Hmm sounds like a plan.

Rodario

babylon wrote: »

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

I considered this, but decided to leave it out. Mainly because it would be an extremely long list of guild stores and my goal is to have a less fractured market. Also, if you're looking for a specific item, you're likely to choose the cheapest offer, no matter what guild is offering it.

Rune_Relic

So the guild trees would make the bigger trading guilds more powerful and kill off anyone else who cant build the tree as they cant trade as well ?

babylon

Rodario wrote: »

show previous quotes

babylon wrote: »

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

I considered this, but decided to leave it out. Mainly because it would be an extremely long list of guild stores and my goal is to have a less fractured market. Also, if you're looking for a specific item, you're likely to choose the cheapest offer, no matter what guild is offering it.

I suggested it specifically so it would leave the guild shops a fractured market, as it seems this is what ZOS wants, and they seem determined to stick to that vision whatever feedback we give. I thought if we could leave the market fractured like they want they would be more likely to consider a tweak to the guild trader kiosk concept.

Rodario

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So the guild trees would make the bigger trading guilds more powerful and kill off anyone else who cant build the tree as they cant trade as well ?

Every guild could build that tree, it would just take longer for those with less sales volume. Consider the member cap, not every player can be in the most popular guilds.

Rodario

babylon wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rodario wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

I considered this, but decided to leave it out. Mainly because it would be an extremely long list of guild stores and my goal is to have a less fractured market. Also, if you're looking for a specific item, you're likely to choose the cheapest offer, no matter what guild is offering it.

I suggested it specifically so it would leave the guild shops a fractured market, as it seems this is what ZOS wants, and they seem determined to stick to that vision whatever feedback we give. I thought if we could leave the market fractured like they want they would be more likely to consider a tweak to the guild trader kiosk concept.

I see your point, I really do. Imagine the lenght of that dropdown menu though. Some guilds would be lucky enough to be at the top of the list (depending on how it's sorted) and they would get the most out of it, while the rest would be ignored by all but the most determined deal-seekers. Think of how many google pages you look at till you give up.

Even with favorites being on top, you'd still have to look at all stores individually multiple times before picking those and I doubt many players would do that.

The only way I could imagine this working with a dropdown menu is if, instead of a flat listing fee, there'd still be an auction that now determines the list placement e.g. highest bid gets spot 1, second highest gets spot 2 etc. A flat fee by region would be unfair in this case.

babylon

Rodario wrote: »

show previous quotes

babylon wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

I considered this, but decided to leave it out. Mainly because it would be an extremely long list of guild stores and my goal is to have a less fractured market. Also, if you're looking for a specific item, you're likely to choose the cheapest offer, no matter what guild is offering it.

I suggested it specifically so it would leave the guild shops a fractured market, as it seems this is what ZOS wants, and they seem determined to stick to that vision whatever feedback we give. I thought if we could leave the market fractured like they want they would be more likely to consider a tweak to the guild trader kiosk concept.

I see your point, I really do. Imagine the lenght of that dropdown menu though.

Yes I suggest having it maxed at 100 guilds per kiosk. Maybe even less, but this would control the length of that dropdown perfectly, so there would be no issue at all with this.

Listings are fine at 100 per page (when you search for any item listings are maxed at 100 per page), so I imagine 100 guild listings per kiosk would be something ZOS could manage easily.

In this way all guilds would be able to participate in the market in the area they want to sell in, so long as they were able to pay the flat fee for that area.

Nazon_Katts

In order to prevent people from flocking to only endgame areas, kiosk locations must be reconsidered. Naturally, areas at or close to VR cap and places of convenience (eg Rawl'Kha) are way more attractive than others. So I think kiosks should be moved to equally inconvenient places everyone, lowbie or vet, has to travel to and wouldn't prefer for everyday business in the first place.

The main cities in the alliance zones are such places, should be suitable for spreading trade out more and help with creating multiple regional markets instead of just an endgame one. Additionally, seeing the cities crowded with players would be a very welcome change in atmosphere as well.

Cuyler

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

In order to prevent people from flocking to only endgame areas, kiosk locations must be reconsidered. Naturally, areas at or close to VR cap and places of convenience (eg Rawl'Kha) are way more attractive than others. So I think kiosks should be moved to equally inconvenient places everyone, lowbie or vet, has to travel to and wouldn't prefer for everyday business in the first place.

The main cities in the alliance zones are such places, should be suitable for spreading trade out more and help with creating multiple regional markets instead of just an endgame one. Additionally, seeing the cities crowded with players would be a very welcome change in atmosphere as well.

I agree. I think a lot of this debate revolves around the effort required to access the market. I believe the system would vastly improve by reworking the location of the traders. These would be my suggestions:

1. Have every trader be located directly next to the wayshrines. Currently some cities do but others require you to run across the city to the traders.

2. In each city, traders should be clustered in larger groups of 15-20 traders. Some cities only have one trader which is just ludacris.

3. Leave rural traders as well but also cluster these in groups of say 5-10.

The idea is to get people to feel like it is worth the trip. For example, in the current system when I'm traveling to guild traders, I don't even bother to port to a place that only has one trader. It adds another 1hr to my shopping runs and just to time consuming. I now only port to locations with 5+ traders.

Half of the member base wants an AH and most of the time for the convenience. These suggestions are an option to provide more convenience but keep the market fragmented (which is a good thing!).

Nazon_Katts

Buy orders is something I'd love to see as well. Actually, I believe that to be the better way of giving randoms access to guild stores. Higher sell fees might balance out with lower buy offers, but I believe the higher fees being the bigger issue holding people back from participating, while the opportunity to sell right away is an incentive.

Rodario

babylon wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rodario wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

I considered this, but decided to leave it out. Mainly because it would be an extremely long list of guild stores and my goal is to have a less fractured market. Also, if you're looking for a specific item, you're likely to choose the cheapest offer, no matter what guild is offering it.

I suggested it specifically so it would leave the guild shops a fractured market, as it seems this is what ZOS wants, and they seem determined to stick to that vision whatever feedback we give. I thought if we could leave the market fractured like they want they would be more likely to consider a tweak to the guild trader kiosk concept.

I see your point, I really do. Imagine the lenght of that dropdown menu though.

Yes I suggest having it maxed at 100 guilds per kiosk. Maybe even less, but this would control the length of that dropdown perfectly, so there would be no issue at all with this.

Listings are fine at 100 per page (when you search for any item listings are maxed at 100 per page), so I imagine 100 guild listings per kiosk would be something ZOS could manage easily.

In this way all guilds would be able to participate in the market in the area they want to sell in, so long as they were able to pay the flat fee for that area.

Apologies if I'm wrong, but it seems to me you disregarded anything below what you quoted i.e. the part where I argue why such a list might be problematic.

Rune_Relic

Rodario wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So the guild trees would make the bigger trading guilds more powerful and kill off anyone else who cant build the tree as they cant trade as well ?

Every guild could build that tree, it would just take longer for those with less sales volume. Consider the member cap, not every player can be in the most popular guilds.

And if you are not in a guild ?

What you are saying is slam the door in an individuals ability to sell.
Only people who profit are big guilds...who get bigger..and control pricing.

Rodario

Rune_Relic wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rodario wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So the guild trees would make the bigger trading guilds more powerful and kill off anyone else who cant build the tree as they cant trade as well ?

Every guild could build that tree, it would just take longer for those with less sales volume. Consider the member cap, not every player can be in the most popular guilds.

And if you are not in a guild ?

What you are saying is slam the door in an individuals ability to sell.
Only people who profit are big guilds...who get bigger..and control pricing.

@Rune_Relic‌

If you're not in a guild you can currently not sell via guild traders at all, so I don't see how the (note: optional to the main proposal) trees would make things worse for guildless merchants.

PS: You are aware guilds cannot grow beyond 500 members, right? No one guild will ever be bigger than all others and control prices. Unless of course they form a cartel, but that's already possible.

babylon

Rodario wrote: »

show previous quotes

babylon wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I agree with this idea, runs parallel to something I came up with.

Flat fee depending on area, all guilds who pay this fee are listed at a trader. I thought it could be handled with a dropdown menu of guilds, with ability to favourite guild shops so you can quickly find their shop again.

I considered this, but decided to leave it out. Mainly because it would be an extremely long list of guild stores and my goal is to have a less fractured market. Also, if you're looking for a specific item, you're likely to choose the cheapest offer, no matter what guild is offering it.

I suggested it specifically so it would leave the guild shops a fractured market, as it seems this is what ZOS wants, and they seem determined to stick to that vision whatever feedback we give. I thought if we could leave the market fractured like they want they would be more likely to consider a tweak to the guild trader kiosk concept.

I see your point, I really do. Imagine the lenght of that dropdown menu though.

Yes I suggest having it maxed at 100 guilds per kiosk. Maybe even less, but this would control the length of that dropdown perfectly, so there would be no issue at all with this.

Listings are fine at 100 per page (when you search for any item listings are maxed at 100 per page), so I imagine 100 guild listings per kiosk would be something ZOS could manage easily.

In this way all guilds would be able to participate in the market in the area they want to sell in, so long as they were able to pay the flat fee for that area.

Apologies if I'm wrong, but it seems to me you disregarded anything below what you quoted i.e. the part where I argue why such a list might be problematic.

Yes and that leaves guild stores fragmented still, which is what ZOS wants...as I said, my take on it is deliberately trying to work with their vision.

• Guild shops can be listed at kiosks in a range of areas.
• Guild kiosks charge a range of flat fees depending on area.
• Each guild paying the flat fee (depending on area) gets listed at the guild kiosk they chose, with a maximum of 100 guild shop listings at each kiosk (or whatever ZOS feels is an okay maximum).
• Players are able to favourites shops so it's easier to find the ones they liked in the past.
• Players now can go to an area and search through a lot more guild shops without needing to trek across 20 maps, and guilds can now all get a guild kiosk in the area they want to trade in (so long as they can pay the flat fee for that area).

Rodario

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Buy orders is something I'd love to see as well. Actually, I believe that to be the better way of giving randoms access to guild stores. Higher sell fees might balance out with lower buy offers, but I believe the higher fees being the bigger issue holding people back from participating, while the opportunity to sell right away is an incentive.

I liked that idea and put it in the OP.

Rodario

I felt like bumping those suggestions of mine in which I still truly believe. You know, give them another run on the forums

OrangeTheCat

If there was an island or something for just traders, everyone from the faction would be there (or worse, depending if you think it should be cross-faction, everyone in the game would be there). You know ZOS is unable to deal with lag very well. Just look at the fact that you have to wait 5 seconds before paging to the next page of guild store offerings. Imagine how bad the lag would be.