Do you really want arena PvP?

Imperator_Clydus

Greetings and salutations members of the Elder Scrolls Online community,

As many of you likely know by now, ZOS is demoing a 3v3v3 one point domination Arena PvP scenario at E3 2014. Some of you may be happy to hear this news. Some of you may not be. I have made my opinion rather clear about being against a traditional arena. Here is my thread on how the arena would need to be implemented to make it worth playing in ESO: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/88828/the-arena-and-how-it-should-be-done#latest

We'll obviously need to hear more details from ZOS in regards to how this Arena PvP system will work. I'm going to assume it's nowhere as ambitious and interesting as my idea, and more than likely similar to all the Arena PvP systems that exist in other MMORPGs. I'm going to give a few reasons why I believe this will be an absolute disaster for ESO PvP.

First and foremost, as if class balance wasn't a disaster already, Arena PvP will bring out the worst and best in every class. For anyone who has actually played an MMO with Arena PvP before, you know the constant buffing, nerfing, FOTM compositions, FOTM classes, etc. Arena PvP, on principle, is not a skill-based system, but rather one that is driven by broken and overpowered specs/classes leading to a very unfulfilling experience.

Secondly, ZOS has been giving us mixed signals. Up until recently, ZOS has stated they are committed to AvA and any other modes of PvP would not be considered in the foreseeable future. They reaffirmed this with the reddit AMA they had a few weeks back. What are we to believe if ZOS is always playing coy and keeping secrets from us? Can we ever take their word seriously?

Thirdly, this will have a terrible impact on AvA, if the arena system is separate. I, and I'm sure many of you, came to ESO because of the promise of an amazing 3-faction AvA system. Having an arena, will largely undermine the Alliance War. Campaigns will be less populated. There will be less incentive and reason to participate in AvA, especially if Arena PvP were to be a better and more efficient way to level and achieve gear. There are so many subversive effects, that it's mind boggling ZOS is undermining the very PvP experience they have been championing since they announced the game.

Again, news of this is still very recent and we'll need to see the entire scope of ZOS' Arena PvP vision. I'm personally under the impression ZOS is so busy trying to cater to those who don't currently like their game, that they will inevitably alienate those who actually enjoy what the game has to offer. Please post your comments below and choose which answer best represents you in the poll.

Regards,

Imperator Clydus

Nazon_Katts

Yes.

I'm no great PvPer. Decent, but not great. I enjoy it occasionally. Small group pvp is something I could enjoy more often and since I'd be joining AvA only occasionally, anyways, arenas would only add to my game and won't take away from anybody else's.

I am, however, no particular fan of eSports and hate to see it mingle with RPGs, as I deem them mutually exclusive. A reason why I cannot get into playing MOBAs. Just doesn't fit, in my opinion.

I could live with a more story driven approach to staged pvp(like SWTOR, for example), that has seperated and/or additional competitive features, as long as there's an unrated story mode for the more casual and immersion seeking folks like me.

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

No.

No, not until we have a lot more fixes for cyro. Also, I don't want people taken away from cyro, at least not all the time. I wouldn't be against 'arena tournaments' twice a week or something though

yelloweyedemon

Yes.

In all MMO's I've played, the arenas are just how you described. An exploitable mess, and usually a healing fest. I remember in SWTOR 4v4 battles in some occasions the match ended with 0 kills. (2dps 1 tank 1 healer) no hybrids no bad playstyles.
In RIFT, the rule for battlegrounds was simple. The team with the more healers won. (The healers in that game were equal to raid bosses) lol

No I wouldn't mind having 4v4 matches or some "battlegrounds" with objectives, but I'm willing to bet it will not be done right and I will not play it. It is far too difficult (maybe impossible) to ballance an arena/battleground system.

For example how you are going to prevent people from stacking healers, or the FOTM class, or hybrid builds that would be completelly useless anywhere else.

PS: I wouldn't mind having the XvX matches as long as no special rewards or ANY benefit is included, other than rewards we get from Cyrodiil. If "special benefits of ANY kind are included, then my vote is hell no.

quakedawg_ESO

No.

Zero interest in an arena type feature. Larger the battles the better. I couldn't imagine watching Braveheart and seeing a 5 on 5 battle ....

But honestly no. But, just because I find it useless in a large scale PvP game, that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a niche for it and apparently some peeps want it. As long as I can find zergs to mow down I'm content.

maholi

Yes.

Yes. It would keep the game interesting for me, as now it is fading.

Gravord

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Arena PvP, on principle, is not a skill-based system, but rather one that is driven by broken and overpowered specs/classes leading to a very unfulfilling experience.

Right, because zerg blobing and setting 20 oils in objective tower is totally skill based.

They are reducing number of campaigns so it wont affect Cyrodiil action. Most players who are into arenas dont participate in current zerg mode anyway, so you cant loose them if they are not there in first place.

PvP gear is not big benefit and most reasonable pvp-ers dont use it so you cant blame not even implemented arenas that will offer it faster (1 bag rewards of worthy for winning team, nothing for loosing so they try harder next time). Same goes for AP, normal value from kills plus small bonus for winning team (same as objective taking/defendig tick).

4vs4 for organized groups, 8vs8 or 12vs12 for solo queue and you have lots of ppl (who already left ESO bored with zerging) coming back to enjoy small scale challenge.

Imperator_Clydus

No.

Gravord wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Arena PvP, on principle, is not a skill-based system, but rather one that is driven by broken and overpowered specs/classes leading to a very unfulfilling experience.

Right, because zerg blobing and setting 20 oils in objective tower is totally skill based.

They are reducing number of campaigns so it wont affect Cyrodiil action. Most players who are into arenas dont participate in current zerg mode anyway, so you cant loose them if they are not there in first place.

PvP gear is not big benefit and most reasonable pvp-ers dont use it so you cant blame not even implemented arenas that will offer it faster (1 bag rewards of worthy for winning team, nothing for loosing so they try harder next time). Same goes for AP, normal value from kills plus small bonus for winning team (same as objective taking/defendig tick).

4vs4 for organized groups, 8vs8 or 12vs12 for solo queue and you have lots of ppl (who already left ESO bored with zerging) coming back to enjoy small scale challenge.

Zerg blobbing is not and will never be an effective tactic. Oil pots are meant to counter zergs and provide an ample defense, which is how they are intended to function. If you are trying to enter a tower that is filled with enemies deploying oil, you were foolish enough to not destroy the tower to begin with.

AvA is dying. ZOS is reducing campaigns because they overestimated how many people would participate them, and most of the current campaigns are dead. On the contrary, if you've actually participated in Cyrodiil, you would see all the players who mindlessly kill and farm AP at the expense of AvA. These are likely the same players who will participate in Arena PvP. There is no benefit to adding this system as it will only negatively impact the PvP that is already existing in the game.

How is PvP gear not a big benefit and why do most "reasonable" pvpers not use it? The point is Arena PvP matches will be shorter, resulting in likely a faster gain of gear as well as experience. This in many ways would further discourage the incentive to join Cyrodiil.

There is no challenge in e-sports. As I have addressed in my OP, and for anyone who as actually played MMOs with Arena PvP, there is no skill level. This will be 3-faction small scale PvP, and all it will do is exacerbate class balancing issues, undermine AvA, and turn ESO into just another MMO rather than something different like it was originally intended.

What is frightening is the decisions ZOS is making are very analogous of BioWare with SWTOR. BioWare decided to remove Ilum (world PvP) because it was not working as intended. They were planning on revamping it and implementing it into the game at a later date. Two years later, BioWare states "they have not current plans for Ilum at this time." I don't want AvA to become an afterthought. With the decisions ZOS has made and the lack of attention to AvA since launch, it makes one wonder.

bruceb14_ESO5

No.

I like the idea of informal fights but not scored. Scoring, rankings of individuals do cause a feeling of either being beastly or crappy and segment teams instead of growing them together.

NskDen

No.

No, I don't want PvP arena.PvE arena maybe(solo, like Arena Fighters guild)...

Kerrovitarr

No.

Too many balance issues to implement PvP arena. No.

Nox_Aeterna

No.

I voted no before and i will vote no doesnt matter how many polls are made.

The game is not ready for arenas , my opinion on this will not change , in an year or more then zen can return and think about this.

Maybe in an year or more my answer will change , but for now , no.

Gravord

Yes.

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Zerg blobbing is not and will never be an effective tactic. Oil pots are meant to counter zergs and provide an ample defense, which is how they are intended to function. If you are trying to enter a tower that is filled with enemies deploying oil, you were foolish enough to not destroy the tower to begin with.

AvA is dying. ZOS is reducing campaigns because they overestimated how many people would participate them, and most of the current campaigns are dead. On the contrary, if you've actually participated in Cyrodiil, you would see all the players who mindlessly kill and farm AP at the expense of AvA. These are likely the same players who will participate in Arena PvP. There is no benefit to adding this system as it will only negatively impact the PvP that is already existing in the game.

How is PvP gear not a big benefit and why do most "reasonable" pvpers not use it? The point is Arena PvP matches will be shorter, resulting in likely a faster gain of gear as well as experience. This in many ways would further discourage the incentive to join Cyrodiil.

Oil pots are currently plant on flat ground and ill give you medal if you explain me how oil under my shoe can do 2k dmg per second and there will be 5 of them in each tower (just on the door plus more on next floors). Or Alessia bridge where they are planted on flat ground and do dmg tru walls (small rooms on both sides of entrance to bridge). Probably you have no idea how many ppl daily log off from Cyrodiil after watching oil/siege/npc mercs abused repeatedly for way too high dmg comparing to what player skills can do.

As for pvp gear, only heavy armor last set bonus is good to use but with current game state you are forced to use light, which have very low and almost never proccing absorb on it. Crafted or v10 dungeon gear is much more usefull.

bruceb14_ESO5 wrote: »

I like the idea of informal fights but not scored. Scoring, rankings of individuals do cause a feeling of either being beastly or crappy and segment teams instead of growing them together.

But leaderboard based on vamp ultimate abuse is totally fine? Because its what we have on every campaign leaderboard right now from each side.

Edit: Arena leaderboard could include simple xx/from xx fights won, showing recent 10 for example and overall. So score wouldnt be based on time you can spend in game but actual results

Zubba

Yes.

I vote yes because I believe it will appeal to a wider audience.

DeLindsay

Yes.

I don't really care if they add it or not, I just don't want ZoS to bow to the derps from WoW that are demanding it "because WoW had it, so should ESO".

Dudis

No.

I could live with it if they made arenas basically glorified (team)duels that give no rewards.

I've allways disliked arenas/wow-style BGs but as long as it doesn't become the main form of pvp, I don't really care.

ThyIronFist

Yes.

Yes.

But fix the current game first.

And if you don't like arenas, don't play it. Simple as. My god, some of you people... lol...

the.dzeneralb16_ESO

No.

Also I don't like the idea because of people in arena would cry for balance. Balance in large scale is completely different from a small arena, and there is no way to equally balance them. I for one do not want changed based on a small arena.

silvestru_liviueb17_ESO

Yes.

Yes.
Though, way too many votes will be needed so they(devs) even bother to be attracted by this poll.
Anyway, imo best option would be an open-world pvp server. At least put up duel option.

Dolenz

No.

No, It will just give more fodder to those who are always crying for other classes to get nerfed.

It is one more aspect that people will be complaining needs to all be balanced and, just like most every MMO I have ever played that has lots of PvE and PvP content, it is almost impossible to balance for both and keep both types of players happy.

We do not need to add even more complexity.

Animus0724

Yes.

I vote yes, but major work needs to be done with the current classes.

A little small scale PvP will be nice after a long 4 hour push on Cyrodiil.
Even better would be an open duel option.

Kira_Night

No.

No. We don't want arena PVP.

Preachan

Yes.

Yes.
But BGs for around 4-12 players per faction would be more appealing to me than small arenas.

And Cyro has to be the heart of ESOs PvP - most rewarding, and maybe also the lobby for those waiting for their BG/arena to start.

Cyrodil is the top priority.

Thechemicals

No.

Nobody wants that ***. You have like 5 people that do and the rest of us are scratching our heads.

Let me tell you who the majority is in this game. Despite what you see on zone chat, The majority is people who like to socialize and quest together and have guilds where they network and have friends that become good friends. This same majority transitions into "realm versus realm pvp" smoothly and have fun in Cyrodiil because its teamwork and "band of brother mentality".

The minority is the pvp community that is frustrated that "grief pvp" and "solo pvp" is not the mainstream style of play here. These are the minds that want open world pvp, and the ability to solo all content by themselves, and they have no desire to ever really be a part of something different. Those styles of play may be the best pvp ever, but its not what this game offers. However.....now we have arena, and possibly more "pvp-individual" features to come.

Zenimax listens to these peoples ideas because they are the most vocal and emotional invested in this game and when I say that, I mean it in more in the way that these are the people who threaten to quit, and advertise on youtube/reddit/etc. about how the game sucks. These people have to be catered to, a whole lot more than the rest of us because the rest of us aren't going to quit because something is too hard or a class skill is too overpowered or pvp has no arena.

Yasha

Yes.

Always love unbiased polls prefaced by a page long exposition on why you should vote the way the maker of the poll wants you to....

BTW

1) your thoughts on the impact of a structured pvp environment on class balance make no sense.

2) You appear to be claiming that spvp is non-skill based but AvA is -WTF?

3) Your fear that spvp will undermine AvA is completely unfounded. The only two games (that i know of) that have a similar set up to ESO's AVA and which also have spvp have/had a far higher AvA population than spvp population.

Like so many others on these forums you are looking at how spvp impacted OWPVP in other games- AvA is a completely different beast. As long as the AvA is good/fun/rewarding its going to popular.

Bloodvax

Yes.

I would like arena PVP BUT the way the combat system works atm isnt suited for 1v1 fights. There is not enough balance between classes for this to be skill based. Especially when every class has a spamable 1 button cheesemode *** win ability. For example I saw a NB running around spamming ambush over and over until his mana ran out and got a kill. Or the temp combo of impulse solar barrage. The game is too spammy for ANY kind of skill to be viable. There is no way that 1v1 fights will be remotely interesting to watch or fight with the no cooldown combat spam that we have now.

YuccaPalm

Yes.

I will re-sub if that comes out (:

shanersimms_ESO

No.

By creating Arenas you stretch the already thin PvP population even thinner by creating more venues to PvP in. You can get the same general play style arenas would offer if we had multiple populated Cyrodiil campaigns. Adding arenas is a terrible idea until the game gets more population.

Lowbei

Yes.

this is one of those rare times when im glad that zos doesnt listen to forum polls.

bads will always vote against anything that requires skill.

MasterSpatula

No.

This is just going to take attention away from the PVP that feels like it means something and put more attention on meaningless e-peen-ometer fights. But I guess squeaky wheels get grease.

Lowbei

Yes.

solutions to make it not distract from cyrodiil have already been proposed, so your point is invalid