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Dirty, rotten, filthy changes (classic Elder Scrolls diseases)

tinythinker
tinythinker
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An Elder Scrolls theme is the presence of specific diseases that effect the stats of a character such as Ataxia and Rockjoint. I propose these diseases be brought back in a form true to the originals but modified for ESO mechanics. These would spread by vectors like animal bites as in previous Elder Scrolls games. Give mobs like skeevers, wolves, bears, etc. something more interesting to potentially hit you with and suddenly it isn't just "oh no a skeever/wolf/etc, whatever shall I do...*eyeroll*" anymore..

Sure, there is the generic "disease damage" and its healing debuff status effect that comes from meatbag catapults, befouled enchanments, and zombie spew. Yet there are also named diseases with specific effects that can't be purged or cleansed like vampirism and lycanthropy. So why not specific Tamrielic diseases that are already part of the lore? Remember these? I adapted them from from Skyrim to ESO game mechanics for the purpose of illustration (and no, I don't want ESO to be Skyrim online, but this was a suitably short and useful list of examples to work with as I think a small number of diseases would work best):

Ataxia - 25% increase in lockpicking difficulty.
Black Heart Blight - increase Break Free, Block, and Dodge costs by 25%.
Bone Break Fever - maximum stamina reduced by 25%.
Brain Rot - maximum magicka reduced by 25%.
Droops - weapon damage reduced by 15%.
Rockjoint - chance for critical hit with melee weapons reduced 25%
Witbane - magicka recovers 50% slower.

Again, like lycanthropy and vampirism these named diseases would be separate from weapons and siege equipment dealing generic "disease damage". Unlike those diseases, you could treat these revived diseases in more ways than just paying for a cure in a city. Also, they would have their own set of mechanics and lore-connection.

UPDATED: Because of feedback from renewed interest in this idea, I've been talking in the comments about mechanics concerning disease progression and treatment I mostly skipped originally in order to keep things short. Mechanics which affect the kind of impact named diseases would have on game play. I've mentioned them in comments but want to add/expand on that here for people new to the thread. I'm putting it in spoiler tags to keep this original post from becoming a big wall of text...
An understandable concern is that named diseases would be too disruptive to regular game play. Sure, some people don't realize that being inconvenienced and having mechanisms to overcome obstacles is a part of gaming, or maybe they just don't want this particular type of obstacle, and I respect that. But done right I think named diseases could add some serious Elder Scrolls flavor to ESO. The mechanics I talk about here are what toggle that level of impact. The sweet spot between "challenge" and "annoying" will vary from player to player, but these are the levers I have in mind to adjust that balance. How far you would would move each lever is of course your own view. My numbers are for the purpose of illustrating the levers and any numbers would need to be adjusted after internal game testing and time on the PTS if some version of this concept were adopted. These mechanics translate such diseases from a single player RPG format to a version suitable for an RPG/MMO hybrid like the Elder Scrolls Online.

1. Vector of transmission. That is, how is a disease spread? Exposure to foul water? Spoiled food? The bite of an infected animal (such as a skeever, wolf, bear) or the bodily fluid of an infected host (such as zombie spew)? The easiest and simplest way to control how and when named diseases are encountered is to decide which mobs can transmit a disease, which disease they transmit, and how. The most logical and simple mechanism for a triggering event is an attack by the mob. It could be a regular attack (bite/swipe from an animal) or a special attack (like the aforementioned zombie spew).

2. Rate of Transmission. Or in gaming terms, how often does it proc upon the occurrence of a triggering event? The bookends are a zero percent chance of transmission (which we have now -- no attack ever transmits a named disease) and one hundred percent. In general, the more likely it is for transmission to proc, the less interesting and more frustrating the mechanic becomes. If the rate of transmission/chance to proc an infection gets too low, the whole concept becomes invisible and pointless. The rate of transmission has to be balanced with the rate of progression (how quickly it gets worse over time), so these levers will be discussed together.

3. Disease Stages and Rate of Progression. These exist already for another named disease -- Vamprisim. The way this lever works is to determine the initial impact (the penalty acquired at the moment of infection) and ongoing impact while your character is infected. This can be divided into stages of the disease or, more simply, into degree of impact per unit time. For the named diseases described above, the latter is the better choice. The importance of this mechanic is that it directly controls how eventful getting a disease will be. If the initial penalty is low and the progression is a slow burn (it takes a relatively long time, in gaming terms, for the penalty to build up to something really debilitating) then the risk of being infected doesn't automatically slow your game play. You could still try to finish a quest or two or a grind session before needing to worry about a cure.

So then we are talking about whether a particular named disease should have a high, medium, or low initial impact and a fast, moderate, or slow burn.

This can then be combined with higher or lower rates of transmission. If you have a higher rate of transmission, for example, a low or medium initial impact and a slow burn would help keep the frustration of frequent infection in check. Take Brain Rot as an example. If you had a really high chance (60-75%) of contracting it whenever your character fought the carrier mob, but, it initially had an impact of 1% reduced max magicka and the disease progressed at the rate of losing one additional percent per every real world hour, it would take a real world day to get to the maximum effect of a 25% reduction to max magicka. You don't get to 25% right away, so you have time to decide what to do, but, if you just "let it go" it gets really bad.

Playing with these levers, lets up the initial impact a bit and greatly boost the rate of progression. For example, right away a 5% penalty. After ten minutes, a 10% penalty. After thirty minutes, a 15% penalty. After an hour, a 25% penalty. Even if we give a somewhat lower rate of disease transmission, say, 35-40% per fight with a set of infected mobs (a set can be one individual or two/three depending on how they are typically encountered but the odds of infection would be the same per set, which means skeevers would individually have lower rates of transmission than bears since the former tend to be found in groups of two and three), your character is impacted less frequently and yet quickly and so the presence of disease in the game would be far more noticeable.

For really low rates of transmission (say, 2-6% per set of infectious mobs), having a high initial impact might make more sense if the goal is to have a higher impact, and the numbers for rate of progression would change to reflect that. So for Brain Rot, a staggered approach could start at 10% and add 1% per minute until reaching the maximum 15 minutes after infection. You would know you have to go seek treatment right away. You could slow down the rate of progression *or* lower the initial impact to draw things out a bit but if you used a 2-6% infection rate, a 1% initial impact, and a 1% per hour rate of progression, Brain Rot would have a very low impact on the game *unless* we adjusted another lever, that of cures and cool-downs.

4. Cures and Cool-Downs. Cures are a big lever, and in previous Elder Scrolls games these tended to involve either finding a temple/shrine or obtaining a Cure Disease Potion. As named diseases they would not be curable by Purge or Cleansing Ritual unless rates of transmission, initial impact, and rate of progression were all very high for all of the diseases. High values for all of these levers at once for all named diseases would make the concept an unfun annoyance and is rejected. Cool-downs refers to how long (30 minutes? 1 hour?) after being you cured you become immune to all named diseases.

By playing with the cure and cool-down levers, you can greatly alter the significance of vectors, rates of transmission, initial impact, and speed of progression. For instance, in the previous example of Brain Rot having a 2-6% infection rate, a 1% initial impact, and a 1% per hour progression, if you could easily acquire a large stack of Potion of Cure Disease, having the disease in the game is meaningless. You could just pop the potion any time within an hour of being infected and never see any real impact, knowing that the odds you would encounter the mob carrying it AND getting infected again any time soon are really low. And even if it happens, easy peasy. Just pop another cheap cure potion.

On the other hand, if shrines/potions were rare or expensive enough, you couldn't just leave off dealing with the disease because it was such a slow burner.

How to tweak the vectors, rates of transmission, initial impact/rate of progression, and cure/cool-down levers to find a suitable balance for an engaging and interesting mechanic is an open question. Each named disease should have its own unique formulation of vector, transmission rate, and initial impact/progression, but should the cure/cooldown mechanic should be uniform for all of them? Again, another angle to work with.

I would be remiss not to mention on last lever...

5. Immunity. In prior Elder Scrolls games, Vampires, Lycanthropes, and Argonians were all immune to such named diseases. How this should play out in ESO is an open question, but it would definitely be a boost to choosing to play as an Argonian character.


Mechanics summary: You can make a named disease as visible as you want, and have its frequency, degree, and immediacy of impact adjusted the way you want, by playing with the above levers. Thus the design of the disease mechanic proposed can allow things like Ataxia, Bone Break Fever, and Rockjoint to be made into an appropriate bit of flavor/challenge for a game like ESO.

ADDITIONAL UPDATE: Further developments have been added in a later comment. They explain why the revived diseases aren't just a nuisance, the potential benefits from getting one of these revived diseases, and feature that most amazing Daedric Prince, Peryite!

Check out that additional material in the spoiler tags below:
The direction I am currently looking at involves asking why people wouldn’t just do whatever is most expedient to cure any named disease their character might acquire. I think that successfully answering this question is the difference between adding something that some people will see as a fun, minor bit of immersion from past games yet that others will see as a petty nuisance, and adding something that allows for constructive immersion with a fun risk-taking experience.

What if there were a potential upside to acquiring a named disease?

OK, so I had quite a bit of this in mind last time I was posting here, but, I didn't have time to fully develop it. I also wanted to take time to see what else occurred to me. So here is what I ended up with. You can skip to the summary at the end if you don't want the extra details.

1. Some diseases will have a stronger, more sudden onset, then subside for slower progression. Others will start off small with a slow burn and higher maximum penalty numbers. But generally, they are just a bit of flavor. They can easily be treated in any number of ways, like Cleasning Ritual (but *not* Purge, since it doesn't give the player a choice to decline and stay ill). If left untreated, they have a random chance each hour of progress to the next degree of penalty, or of heading the other way decreasing in severity as the character goes on the mend. Once you start getting better it doesn't switch back, you just have the penalty decrease at the same rate you got worse.

Many people will be somewhat penalized and then get better on their own. Others will eventually need to seek treatment as they approach the max penalties for a disease, but again, these diseases are easily remedied. Disease resistance works to prevent being infected and also increases the odds from each RNG tick that you will start getting better rather worse. In the end, then, the amount of unwanted complication is minimized. Even if you do nothing, odds are good you will just experience a small to moderate penalty then it goes away. Or you just cure it the next time you are in town, the next time a healing Templar shows up, with a generic cure disease potion from your bag, etc.

2. The named diseases are divided into three major stages. How many hours it take a disease to get to each stage, that is, how many RNG ticks for progression, is still up in the air.

- The first stage is exactly like what is described in bullet one. It is entirely manageable and may go away on its own. If players get a named disease, this is typically how far it will progress. A good rate for stage one, after the initial penalty (which would range from 1% to 5%), would be either 0.5% or 1% per hour. Again these numbers vary by disease and the max penalty, so that reaching the next stage/having it get serious isn't something you couldn't easily see coming and avoid.
- Stage two differs in that the chances you will get better on your own are gone. Now, you have to use a Cleanse, a cure potion, pay a priest -- whatever. The RNG for remission is gone. If you do nothing, you will, without a doubt, reach the maximum penalty for the disease. The rate of progression/penalty accrual greatly increases.
- The third stage is reaching maximum penalty. You have the full-blown version of the disease. Cleansing Ritual, generic cure disease potions, etc, will have no effect because the illness has firmly taken root.

3. There are two types of options at this point.

One could involve players with max level Alchemy skills making a rarer type of cure than a generic cure potion; or going to a specific (type of) shrine/master healer, not just any old NPC healer; or something along those lines. Time, money, effort (quest), or some combination thereof. But you would be totally cured. It wouldn't overly intensive effort or super expensive, just more than "Oh let me pop this cheap common potion or have my friend cast a quick spell."

But why would someone be so dumb as to take a disease to stage three? Just curiosity? Boredom? Laziness? Stupidity?

Well, OK, maybe. For some people. But a reasonable answer is the other option. Traveling to a shrine to Peryite and praying to the Daedric Prince of Pestilence. And why would you seek out the God of Disease? Because there is a chance he will bestow a blessing on you for accepting his "gift". If he does not accept your offering, that's when you go for option one. Unless you want to wait. You can pray to Peryite once per day if you do.

4. "Peryite's Blessing" is dependent upon the disease you get. I haven't worked out what the bonus(es) would be, but, the idea is that it would be worth the risk to some players. Also, the bonus(es) would need to last a decent amount of time, some number of days to a week, maybe a little more. You still keep a small bit of the penalty (the initial negative hit you take before the first progression tick), but again, this is outweighed by the type, strength, and length of the bonus. After the blessing period ends, the disease is gone as well.

5. Like all named disease, you are limited to one at a time, so those with Vampirism or Lycanthropy are immune. Once you are infected with something like Rock Joint, you can't also get Ataxia at the same time. Nor could you get Vampirism or Lycanthropy. Once you are cured or the blessing ends, you are eligible for all named diseases once again.

6. I was thinking about having racial reactions to diseases other than Argonians/Boser having a passive for increased resistance to all diseases. Maybe magicka-heavy race are more or less susceptible to magicka-based disease, and vice versa for stamina-focused races. But, this is an optional addition to the basic premise described.


SUMMARY: If you have higher disease resistance your chance of getting infected with a named disease or the disease progressing/getting worse is low. Disease progression is divided into stages, and it is slowest in stage one. In stage one there is a chance each progression tick that you will start getting better and if that happens you will keep getting better. Once progression goes so far you enter stage two, in which case the chance of getting better on your own with no effort disappears. You also get sicker (penalty gets bigger) *much* faster. In stages one and two, quick, easy to obtain, and cheap cures work just fine. Stage three means you have reached the full penalty and those cheap/easy cures are no longer an option. Something with more cost (gold, or effort, or something else) is required to be fully cured. Or you go to Peryite's Shrine and seek his blessing, which removes most of the penalty and gives a significant bonus for an extended period of time.


***Please add comments if you remotely like this idea.*** :blush:










I didn't want to Necro my own thread to update the content in a new comment and risk having it locked (since bumping your own threads is frowned upon) so, I am putting the original version from June 25th, 2014 in the spoiler below. New version is being put up August 3rd, 2015, should someone find their way to this thread. Comments made prior to August 3rd were made for that version, but the basic ideas proposed then are mostly intact.
Summary: If disease mechanics were reworked, encounters with some mobs (especially properly designed bosses) would be more challenging because of something other than increases to raw damage dealt. Gear and racial passives for disease resistance would be (more) meaningful [good news for Bosmer and Argonians!] The ability to "cure disease" would be in higher demand [good news for templars!]. Details follow below.

I am asking for information as well as offering food for thought on disease damage. I'm also making suggestion to improve the disease mechanic. I don't think this needs to be at the top of the list for changes/additions, and even though there are broken mechanics, bugged quests to be dealt with, and class balance issues, other aspects of the game could use improvement as well.

I'll start with a non-rhetorical question -- how often do you see disease damage outside of being hit by a meatbag catapult in Cyrodiil? There are dungeons I haven't done yet so maybe it is out there, but I haven't found it besides being available as a weapon enchantment. There is an incomplete entry for it at UESP that mentions zombies, and I guess that includes the ones you run across in Deshaan, but is that it? Do skeevers have a chance of dealing disease damage? I don't think so since you seem to have a brown stink cloud around you if you are hit with disease damage. If you have more info on the who/where of disease damage please share.

And a second question -- what does disease damage do? I found this thread on Reddit suggesting that disease is basically a health debuff, which suggests that you don't receive as much healing from restoration spells and potions. Can anyone confirm this or perhaps have info on the percentages? Is it 25% reduction of health received? Maybe 50%?

Here's a third question -- how do you know your disease resistance stat and if it is good or bad? Currently Argonians receive 15/23 additional resistance to disease and poison to start, which scales up to 1125 by veteran ranks. For comparison, a quest reward like a level 48 Aeylid's Hope pendant offers an extra 480 disease resistance, whereas a rank 1 Bloodthorn Broach offers an additional 750 disease resistance. How do these numbers compare to actual in-game effects? There is no stat listed on the character screen in-game for either poison or disease resistance, so it's hard to know if either has a soft cap and can be overcharged.

Now for a fourth question -- does disease damage/resistance really effect game play? If it does indeed have a health received debuff it has an effect on the rare occasions you encounter disease damage, but is it a noticeable effect? My personal experience in-game is that it is not significant. Have you noticed it having a real impact?

Suggestions

My guess is that disease and poison are going to be more important and better developed in later updates. If so, what would you like to see ZOS do with them? I'll focus on disease and offer a few ideas. They can be mutually exclusive or taken together.

1. Increase the effect of disease. I don't know the current effect, but what if it debuffed health received by 75%, 85%, or 95%? I don't think the numbers are that high or the effect would be more noticeable. At those levels, getting hit by disease with a weapon of foulness or a meatbag catapult would be really serious business and having resistance would be really important in certain places. It would be the same if poison was buffed. You'd have to choose your enchanted gear very carefully and have the right folks in your group (Hey templars, your Cleansing Ritual ability would be in greater demand! :) )

2. Have more creatures use disease damage. If skeevers don't have a chance of dealing disease damage per hit, why not? They are ideal candidates for this. It might also make for more challenging champions and bosses if the ability matched the theme of the mob, especially if paired with suggestion #1. Or even better, keep such disease damage for traps and special mobs like bosses and give mobs like skeevers something more interesting. Which brings us to...

3. Add specific diseases for particular mobs. Sure, there is the generic "disease damage" already discussed, yet there are also diseases like vampirism and lycanthropy. So why not specific Tamrielic diseases that are already part of the lore? Remember these (adapted from Skyrim to ESO game mechanics)?

Ataxia - 25% increase in lockpicking difficulty.
Black Heart Blight - reduces the number of items you can carry by 20.
Bone Break Fever - maximum stamina reduced by 25%.
Brain Rot - maximum magicka reduced by 25%.
Droops - melee damage reduced by 15%.
Rockjoint - chance for critical hit with melee weapons reduced 25%
Witbane - magicka recovers 50% slower.

Again, like lycanthropy and vampirism these would be separate from weapons and siege equipment dealing generic "disease damage".

Maybe ZOS already has plans for something like this in the works, maybe not. What do you think? Would you welcome these changes? Would they add more challenge and complexity to the game?

I'd love to see all three. (And if an extra 15/23 disease resistance really is pathetic, boost it to be more like Aeylid's Hope as Argonians are supposed to be 50% resistant to disease.) I'd like to see something similar done with poison, but that is another topic/thread.
Edited by tinythinker on October 28, 2015 8:45PM
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  • phreatophile
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    Probably classifies as thread necromancy, but I think you have a great idea here.
    Vampire's and Werewolves must also be resistant.
  • tinythinker
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    Vampire's and Werewolves must also be resistant.

    Or perhaps have different reactions (some less severe, or more severe) to some of the diseases?

    Experienced, new, returner? Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
    (And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)


    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Great ideas, thanks for linking.
    Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
    Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
    Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
    Wayra High Elf Sorceress
    Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
    Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden
  • dodgehopper_ESO
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    I Like the idea as long as we can create Cure Disease and Cure Poison potions with alchemy.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Xecil
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    I support this idea.
    Waiting for open beta to be over.
  • Soris
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    why the hell we don't backing this?
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • BuggeX
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    some ideas from the community are just amazing,

    but let Zos first finish there own Thing, (Spellcraft)
    #makemagickadkgreataigan
    #givemeaexecute
    #ineedheal
    #betterhotfixgrindspots
  • GuyNamedSean
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    BuggeX wrote: »
    some ideas from the community are just amazing,

    but let Zos first finish there own Thing, (Spellcraft)

    Does anyone really thing Zeni is gonna finish spellcrafting ever?

    I really would like to have the old diseases back. I don't think the detriments should go over 15%, though. I think a 25% hit to a stat because of the disease would end up screwing people over too much and making them mad when they get infected. 15% you'll definitely notice, but you can still kinda manage yourself well while you head back to a town to get treated.
    Former Guildmaster of the Legion of Mournhold
    XBL: GuyNamedSean
    PC: GuyNamedSeanPC
  • tinythinker
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    Great ideas, thanks for linking.
    Thanks for commenting, @ThatNeonZebraAgain :smiley:

    I Like the idea as long as we can create Cure Disease and Cure Poison potions with alchemy.
    I like *your* idea @dodgehopper_ESO so long as the potions are not super easy-peasy or cut-rate cheap to make. For example, requiring a special crafting station (at a temple/shrine, or maybe some place with the "proper facilities"), multiple reagents (maybe one of them rare?), etc. Maybe it has a negative effect unless you have the Snakeblood passive? Or some other ideas someone might come up with. Maybe something like the skooma crafting idea.

    Xecil wrote: »
    I support this idea.
    Soris wrote: »
    why the hell we don't backing this?
    Thanks for supporting it by commenting @Xecil and @Soris. Ideas that get buried get ignored :smile:

    BuggeX wrote: »
    some ideas from the community are just amazing,

    but let Zos first finish there own Thing, (Spellcraft)

    Does anyone really thing Zeni is gonna finish spellcrafting ever?
    Spellcrafting is a nice idea @BuggeX, yet the original post about diseases above was posted a month before spellcrafting was initially announced at QuakeCon '14. Would rather not wait to discuss or push for other features until it is released, especially given how uncertain that release is.

    I really would like to have the old diseases back. I don't think the detriments should go over 15%, though. I think a 25% hit to a stat because of the disease would end up screwing people over too much and making them mad when they get infected. 15% you'll definitely notice, but you can still kinda manage yourself well while you head back to a town to get treated.
    Thoughtful comment, @GuyNamedSean, and a good point. That's why I suggested the stages idea. You don't get to 25% right away, so you have time to decide what to do, but, if you just "let it go" it gets really bad. For example, right away a 5% penalty. After ten minutes, a 10% penalty. After thirty minutes, a 15% penalty. After an hour, a 25% penalty. It only really hurts you if you don't get treated. This idea goes with a higher rate of disease transmission, in which, if you are frequently fighting skeevers, bears, and wolves, you have a really good chance of contracting a disease (say, 35-40% for a pack of 2-3 skeevers or 2-3 wolves, 20-25% per bear, etc).

    For low rates of transmission (say, 10-15% for a pack of 2-3 skeevers or 2-3 wolves, 3-5% per bear, etc), going straight to the highest penalty, or starting at a higher penalty level, would make more sense, and the numbers would change to reflect that. So for the 25% penalties, a staggered approach could start at 10% and add 1% per minute until reaching the maximum 15 minutes after infection. You would know you have to go seek treatment right away.

    Looking at the two approaches, I see the appeal of both, but I think having a version where you don't feel the need to rush off right away is better. Gives you more of a chance to "risk it" for "just one more" something. One more round of grinding, one more quest, one more whatever. The higher penalty numbers, though, balance that out by making sure you can't just "get by" forever. :)

    Of course, all numbers are up for grabs. You could even change it up, mixing the first two ideas (slow burn versus fast burn). So, still that low rate of transmission and a higher starting penalty, but have the accumulated penalty take longer. Maybe that same 10% to start, then and extra 1% every two minutes instead of every minute, so that the maximum penalty isn't reached until thirty minutes after infection.

    [There are of course skeevers, wolves, bears, and other traditionally disease carrying creatures in Cyrodiil as well, so this also adds a little something to PvP as well. I had initially though about suggesting special diseases just for Cyro but decided it wasn't really needed.]






    Edited by tinythinker on October 13, 2015 12:40PM
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  • Alagras
    Alagras
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    Love this and totally support.

    Other possibilities: little "Sheogorath" curses like your directional arrows suddenly reversed for a while, or camera rotation. Possibly hallucinations like weired colors on your screen, distortion, and more..
    If we get spellcrafting i'd like some things like this

    I was also thinking these poisons could be applied to weapons, replacing the "poison" glyphs.The effect would be permanent or decrease slowly like weapon enchants
  • tinythinker
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    Alagras wrote: »
    Love this and totally support.
    Thanks for commenting @Alagras, it's the best support you could give at the moment to keep the topic/idea visible.

    Alagras wrote: »
    Other possibilities: little "Sheogorath" curses like your directional arrows suddenly reversed for a while, or camera rotation. Possibly hallucinations like weired colors on your screen, distortion, and more..
    If we get spellcrafting i'd like some things like this
    Had the start of an idea for curses way back when, which could totally (like, so totally, dude :tongue: ) be added onto spellcrafting. For example, as a side effect for trying for poorly made spells or for trying to use a spell a beyond your level of competence in a certain area of magic (since spellcrafting introduces the "schools" of magic seen in the future if I recall correctly, either that or new schools). But curses can also work on their own as a side-effect of a disease (such a disease needs a name, hmm... Mage Blight?, no... Spellfart?, no no no... Foulcast?, not really... Spellplague,? eehhhh ...Spellscourge? ") or just because of a curse spell by an NPC/mob/boss or even just because you possess a cursed item (and why not curse some quest objects that obviously sound like they would be cursed to add some fun to basic questing?). If you like I could start a new thread on the topic.

    Alagras wrote: »
    I was also thinking these poisons could be applied to weapons, replacing the "poison" glyphs.The effect would be permanent or decrease slowly like weapon enchants
    I started writing up a poison thread using poison as a skill line a little while after writing about disease, but never finished it. I did recall it later though and pasted my initial work into this comment, though. Could transfer some of those ideas to glyphs I suppose. Anything there look like it would be worth adapting?


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  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    An expanded disease and cure system would be welcome!
    Mobs with a chance to catch something if they bite you that requires more then a bit of waiting before the timer runs out would be a good thing. In fact, I might even see some area-based diseases... with effects from debiliating to merely vexing (how about a "walk around in your underwear in eastmarch = chance to catch common cold" for a 1% debuff that lasts several hours gametime? ;) )
    I'd also love to see cure disease potions added to alchemy, not too hard to make, but not too easy either, with mentioned more lasting diseases creating a demand for those... the OP ideas on the matter are a interesting notion I would support!
  • Paazhahdrimaak
    Paazhahdrimaak
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    I wouldn't mind this, if they added some more alchemy ingredients.. I would need to make my cure disease potion.


    (Added) plus people talk all kinds of bad things about argonian passives. This would make them more valuable. Preventing an actual disease instead of disease damage.
    Edited by Paazhahdrimaak on October 14, 2015 5:19AM
  • UltimaJoe777
    UltimaJoe777
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    The necromancy here is real.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • Gidorick
    Gidorick
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    Absolutely brilliant! I can't believe I've never seen this thread before! I love the concept. It would add a much needed grit to ESO... Now... time to go to the profile of @tinythinker to see what else I might have missed!!!
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

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  • Alucardo
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    Great concept, but would not like to see this in ESO. I spend enough time running around collecting mats, crafting, going from keep to keep without having to head back into the city to buy cures just because I ran past a wolf and it gave me rockjoint.
    If it were a single player game, absolutely. In an MMO? No thanks.
  • Gidorick
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    That's where potions would come in @Alucardo... Crown Store potions... :naughty: BWAHAHAHAH!!!!
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  • Kuroinu
    Kuroinu
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    When I read "Droops" I thought of this terrible alternative for its effect.

    Droops - Loot drops reduced by 15%.

  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    Gidorick wrote: »
    That's where potions would come in @Alucardo... Crown Store potions... :naughty: BWAHAHAHAH!!!!
    You're an evil man @Gidorick!
  • Alucardo
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    When I read "Droops" I thought of this terrible alternative for its effect.

    Droops - Loot drops reduced by 15%.
    Loot drop reduced wouldn't really affect people in Cyrodiil. To make it truly malicious, Loot drops and AP gain reduced by 15%.
  • dsalter
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    Vampire's and Werewolves must also be resistant.

    Or perhaps have different reactions (some less severe, or more severe) to some of the diseases?

    past Elderscrolls games both are immune to little diseases.
    PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread

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  • tinythinker
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    An expanded disease and cure system would be welcome!
    Mobs with a chance to catch something if they bite you that requires more then a bit of waiting before the timer runs out would be a good thing. In fact, I might even see some area-based diseases...
    I'd also love to see cure disease potions added to alchemy, not too hard to make, but not too easy either, with mentioned more lasting diseases creating a demand for those... the OP ideas on the matter are a interesting notion I would support!
    Lots of room to play with the idea, @TheShadowScout. Interesting thoughts on area-of-effect diseases. What do you make of this:
    from a never finished forum post on poison...

    Contagion

    A miasma forms 5 meters around the target after the effect and last for 10 seconds, inflicting 1 Disease Damage per second for up to 3 additional targets standing within its radius.


    The necromancy here is real.
    Gidorick wrote: »
    Absolutely brilliant! I can't believe I've never seen this thread before! I love the concept. It would add a much needed grit to ESO... Now... time to go to the profile of @tinythinker to see what else I might have missed!!!
    @UltimaJoe777 it is rediscovered from time to time, and I've been keeping it in my sig a few months, hoping it eventually gets traction. @Gidorick it is really easy for threads to get buried but I'm glad you found it. My sig currently has a representative sample of my ideas, but they are not necessarily that good. Lots of folks have "brilliant ideas" and share them on the forums, I figure though that it's the issues/basic ideas that matter, even if my stab at how something might look/work falls short. :lol:


    Alucardo wrote: »
    Great concept, but would not like to see this in ESO. I spend enough time running around collecting mats, crafting, going from keep to keep without having to head back into the city to buy cures just because I ran past a wolf and it gave me rockjoint.
    If it were a single player game, absolutely. In an MMO? No thanks.
    Valid point, @Alucardo. That's why I like a low rate of transmission or progression and having a ready cure available in the city or from a guild vendor that you could carry with you. You would be able to keep playing without constant interruption. Maybe getting cured would have a long cool-down before you could be infected again? What do you think? One hour? Two hours? Three? People would break at least that often just to bank stuff and get repairs :yum:


    Alucardo wrote: »
    When I read "Droops" I thought of this terrible alternative for its effect.

    Droops - Loot drops reduced by 15%.
    Interesting @Riko_Futatabi and @Alucardo. In Skyrim Black Heart Blight was a disease that decreased the number of things you can carry, but this game doesn't have an encumbrance system where you can overload your inventory and walk really slow, so I completely revised it. It could be changed to 15% reduction in XP/AP if you are still feeling evil. :naughty:


    dsalter wrote: »
    Vampire's and Werewolves must also be resistant.
    Or perhaps have different reactions (some less severe, or more severe) to some of the diseases?
    past Elderscrolls games both are immune to little diseases.
    Huh. Thanks for the insight, @dsalter. Would definitely make a nice bonus for players choosing those options. :relieved:




    And as a general FYI, while I limited myself to only Skyrim diseases, there are other named conditions in the cannon to update/modify for future additions to the list offered if there is something else people might like to see. I just figured keeping the list short made the most sense rather than having it sprawl and become overly complicated.

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Diseases_(Oblivion)
    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Diseases_(Morrowind)
    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Diseases_(Daggerfall)


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  • Soris
    Soris
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    The necromancy here is real.
    Necromancy for good.
    They could have implement something like this instead of that stupid blanket nerfs to the battle spirit.

    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • icontested
    icontested
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    Ebola?
    Voted and Current reigning champion of most handsome ESO player of 2013-2016
  • Reaper_5334
    I would love this, would really add to the "elder scrolls" part of the game.
  • BRogueNZ
    BRogueNZ
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    No thanks. I remember how damned annoying it was
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    Do not want.
  • TheShadowScout
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    Interesting thoughts on area-of-effect diseases. What do you make of this:
    from a never finished forum post on poison...

    Contagion

    A miasma forms 5 meters around the target after the effect and last for 10 seconds, inflicting 1 Disease Damage per second for up to 3 additional targets standing within its radius.
    Oh, there certainly is a lot more that could be done with alchemy. Just add different solvents to make all different things. A evaporating solvent for making "bomb" type potions? Throw the flask, watch the reaction start as it breaks? From molotov cocktails to smoke bombs, from disease clouds to flash bombs, there are quite some possibilities here... if a meatbag catapult can do it on a lrage scale, there must be some way to do it on a small scale, and not just for zombie vomit (collecting that to make a grenage type potion on the other hand...)
    I also mentioned a while ago in some other thread there could be a sticky solvent to make poisons to coat a blade with (for one blow). Could work the same with disease, many archers in medieval times often coated their arrowheads with all kinds of icky stuff to make sure whatever they hit wouldn't survive the experience... (of course, that sometimes backfired when they got a cut from their own arrowheads while taking care of their gear... so just as many archers preferred not to go there...) And of course there is the real life equivalent of the meatbag catapult, loading those up with plague victims to throw into a besieged city... or throwing a carcass into a well to poison the water... (people have always been a bit nasty when it comes to killing each other)

    The are of effect diseases would be stuff like "don't go into that cloud, you'll catch something", or as mentioned, action-reaction dependent (don't go jumping in the water fully clothed in eastmarch, you'll catch something if you run around with wet clothes in the cold). Could even be interaction dependent... just add some "nightfglowers" that a character can pay some gold for a fade to black ending in some obviously recently used bedroom, and have a chance for developing an STD-inspired itch after... (yeah, I know, not bloody likely...)
    The point is, diseases should have more contagion vectors then "rat bite", some avoidable, some... less so.
    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    Do not want.
    But of course... that's the whole point!!

    Right now, disease is "fugeddaboudit" - you heal the damage, wait a couple seconds, and spend no more thought on it. Not even a minor inconvinience. Nothing to it.

    But... if there -were- some... it would bring a whole new layer to the game. Or more then one.
    I for one would love to hate it when I catch something from a skeever bite, and keep my alchemist busy making cure disease potions.
    I'd love to fear certain types of mobs, not for their combat prowess, but for the low chance my poor characters might catch something... brings back memories of hating the mummies in D&D for the "mummy rot" chance (still better then the darn experience-stealing wraiths though, those were crossing a line!)
    And I'd love to have diseases that may require finding some special ingredient for the cure somewhere instead of just paying the local cleric of popping a potion. As long as they are rare enough to make it an adventure, and not a daily chore...
  • BlackEar
    BlackEar
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    Good idea but my concern is the gold drop off. For a lot of people this would merely be a nuiseance.
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  • Slurg
    Slurg
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    I could see this being an interesting mechanic for solo PVE play.

    But if you're doing a pledge in a formal group or capturing resources in Cyrodiil (which you may have had to queue to get into), it would be an unreasonable burden to drop everything and head to a major city for a cure just because you happened to run by a wolf or a skeever on the way to your objective and you don't want to drag down your group with your disease.

    Sure if there was a potion you could carry it would be less of a burden for you and your group. But it better be really easy to obtain, because if it's so hard to get it goes into the crown store as a 'convenience' item - you just got bit by a wolf, open crown store now to buy a potion or drag down your group! - that will leave a lot of people angry about the game creeping closer to and hovering at the edges of P2W.
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