Change Snipe/Dark Flare to targeted-AoE

pieratsos · October 2017

laced wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.

You have seriously got to be kidding me, nothin in this game has been nerfed directly and indirectly more than the bow line.

Reduced damage - Check
Reduced damage from stealth - check
Add ons being allowed to detect when you are using it without someone targeting you - check
Weapons doing less base damage than SWORD AND SHIELD - check

Put impen on your armor, if you dont do that, its your own fault. And if they do get the attack off, its a reward / risk situation. We have to run medium armor to be effective, making us incredibly squishy. If us rangers are caught out by multiple targets, we are goners. Note, not all rangers are nightblades. Also, the lag works both ways, sometimes it takes 3 secons for our snipe to even fire off, and a lot of the time it doesnt ever fire and we still are charged stam for it .

You as everyone else completely missed the point. Its not about snipe being too strong or too weak or bow needing a ner/buff. Its about a skill being very poorly designed.

The fact that you guys complain about how [snip] the skill is when u try to use it 1v1 or 1vX and generally use it skillfully while at the same time its the number 1 zerg tool is enough to give you an idea of how poorly designed it is.

Its not about nerfing the skill. Its about changing the skill in a way that you can actually use it skillfully.

[Edited to remove profanity]

ADarklore · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.

Perhaps Dark Flare could be a targeted ground AoE instead? Would make the Dark Flare->Jav combo a bit more complicated I suppose (as you'd have to knock your target into the Flare).

That said, any changes to the skills (apart from removing the cast time entirely) are useless as long as exploitative addons exist that show you opponents cast time for it allowing for an easy dodge before the skill is even in the air.

Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...

You do realize that Arrow Spray is already a frontal cone AOE, we don't need another one. Furthermore, Snipe is pretty much the ONLY 'from stealth' viable ranged attack right now... and many of us like to play as 'assassin' type characters. What you're asking for is them to pretty much obliterate this type of gameplay from the game entirely simply because... oh once again... PvP! I'm SO tired of this game catering to the minority PvP players in the name of 'balance' when it does nothing to balance PvE!

DDuke · October 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.

Perhaps Dark Flare could be a targeted ground AoE instead? Would make the Dark Flare->Jav combo a bit more complicated I suppose (as you'd have to knock your target into the Flare).

That said, any changes to the skills (apart from removing the cast time entirely) are useless as long as exploitative addons exist that show you opponents cast time for it allowing for an easy dodge before the skill is even in the air.

Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...

You do realize that Arrow Spray is already a frontal cone AOE, we don't need another one. Furthermore, Snipe is pretty much the ONLY 'from stealth' viable ranged attack right now... and many of us like to play as 'assassin' type characters. What you're asking for is them to pretty much obliterate this type of gameplay from the game entirely simply because... oh once again... PvP! I'm SO tired of this game catering to the minority PvP players in the name of 'balance' when it does nothing to balance PvE!

I don't see how my suggestion would affect the skills usage from stealth (Dark Flare, Frags, Inferno heavy attacks are also pretty strong from stealth) apart from it requiring a bit of aiming.

In fact, my suggestion would buff the skill in some scenarios where there's multiple opponents on the path of the projectile.

There's nothing that prevents AoE/frontal cone abilities from being used from stealth, in fact Acid Spray doesn't even break stealth/cloak if it doesn't hit anyone.

Here's what I meant by frontal cone (different than Acid Spray):

Maybe you can explain how it'd "obliterate" your playstyle & we'll work from there?

I just find it a bit hilarious that a skill called "snipe" is in fact a heatseeking missile that requires zero aiming.

IAVITNI · October 2017

laced wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.

You have seriously got to be kidding me, nothin in this game has been nerfed directly and indirectly more than the bow line.

Reduced damage - Check
Reduced damage from stealth - check
Add ons being allowed to detect when you are using it without someone targeting you - check
Weapons doing less base damage than SWORD AND SHIELD - check

Put impen on your armor, if you dont do that, its your own fault. And if they do get the attack off, its a reward / risk situation. We have to run medium armor to be effective, making us incredibly squishy. If us rangers are caught out by multiple targets, we are goners. Note, not all rangers are nightblades. Also, the lag works both ways, sometimes it takes 3 secons for our snipe to even fire off, and a lot of the time it doesnt ever fire and we still are charged stam for it .

I run full impen bud.

"if you get the attack off" "lag works both ways"

Majority of players that use this ability are in fact behind a zerg spamming snipe. I play on console so MIAT isn't a thing meaning in a 1vx situation, the biggest pressure is coming from someone stealthed out 35 meters away, who has 0 pressure on them.

Snipe is the new gankblade, except it actually requires less skill.

Now, I'm all for buffing bow in general for you "Rangers", but having the primary dps coming from an ability that is inherently poorly designed is in actuality holding the skill line back. If you make snipe an AoE targetable with 0 cast time and reduce the travel time in half, it actually becomes far more effective, if you're good.

Baconlad wrote: »

So wait...dark flare is only used by zergers? I mean...thats a bit bullcrap isnt it?

Have you never 1v1 a dark flare glass canon?

Dark flare is my absolute favorite skill. It hits hard, but because of the cast time, and the way the skill scales with CP, you pretty much have to build glass cannon. Meaning that even in 1v1 i have to take you out quick. Cause if you get ahold of me im toast.

A fair bit of setting up thats required to make use of the skill properly. I have to drop volcanic rune, buff up, start casting. If i see you dodge or block, thats fine ill just keep on spamming. Ur still draining resources rolling. Once that volcanic rune pops though...GG.

Unfortunatly yeah alot of zerglings do use the skill. Kids that are too scared to leave the group once in awhile. Dont get me wrong im guilty of it. I spam the *** outa flare on siege lines from a keep, and reap in easy kills...but how is it any different than a sorc going through his rotation? Contrary to your belief there is a rotation involved with it. Theres a combo i need to hit you with. If you die to a player casting flare and no javs or radiant, than thats your fault. Should have recognized the skill. You can see them from a mile away. Also in order to get that kind of damage on flare,, youre going to be about the squishiest thing on the field. Soo...maybe target the glass right? If you dont....thats your fault. Why do i need to be forced into playing a sweeplar just because you cant counter?

Dark Flare isn't as bad as snipe. It's pretty niche as it is. Cast times aren't fun. I enjoy using shards because it's satisfying to know that the skill is effective because I, as a player used it effectively. Dark Flare is a little more balanced as is as Mag classes lack mobility. The skill is poorly balanced in a 1v1 setting and is unhealthy in large scale. It needs a rework. Maybe making it an AoE targetable isn't the way to go but there is a reason it's never been meta.

IAVITNI · October 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.

Perhaps Dark Flare could be a targeted ground AoE instead? Would make the Dark Flare->Jav combo a bit more complicated I suppose (as you'd have to knock your target into the Flare).

That said, any changes to the skills (apart from removing the cast time entirely) are useless as long as exploitative addons exist that show you opponents cast time for it allowing for an easy dodge before the skill is even in the air.

Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...

You do realize that Arrow Spray is already a frontal cone AOE, we don't need another one. Furthermore, Snipe is pretty much the ONLY 'from stealth' viable ranged attack right now... and many of us like to play as 'assassin' type characters. What you're asking for is them to pretty much obliterate this type of gameplay from the game entirely simply because... oh once again... PvP! I'm SO tired of this game catering to the minority PvP players in the name of 'balance' when it does nothing to balance PvE!

I disagree that the suggestion would be a nerf. It's definitely a buff in terms of effectiveness, but i agree it loses the flavour of snipe. Imo, this kind of design works better for scatter shot, which I think everyone can agree needs to be retuned if not entirely reworked