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Change Snipe/Dark Flare to targeted-AoE
IAVITNI
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We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bow already has an AoE that is targeted to an area of the ground. It would be a bad idea to take away the only single target skill from bow that is not a dot or CC.
Dark flare is fine as it is and especially so since the Templar has an AoE that targets an area of the ground already.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.7 -
ezeepeezee✭✭✭✭Bow already has an AoE that is targeted to an area of the ground. It would be a bad idea to take away the only single target skill from bow that is not a dot or CC.
Dark flare is fine as it is and especially so since the Templar has an AoE that targets an area of the ground already.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Worst idea I've heard in a while.
Changing single target skills to AoE skills would hardly reduce lag, nor would it magically stop people from forming large groups. It's the opposite as a matter of fact.
Making it a 3m AoE is even more laughable. Do you realize how small 3m is? Liquid Lightning is 4m and it's tiny. Good luck landing something like that on anyone.
Also, the big zergs that have multiple people running single target skills like Snipe or DF are the zergs that get lit up by far more deadly AoE groups running around.
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even with no stealth damage people get wrecked by ganks still. Nice.PS4 NA DC0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.
Perhaps Dark Flare could be a targeted ground AoE instead? Would make the Dark Flare->Jav combo a bit more complicated I suppose (as you'd have to knock your target into the Flare).
That said, any changes to the skills (apart from removing the cast time entirely) are useless as long as exploitative addons exist that show you opponents cast time for it allowing for an easy dodge before the skill is even in the air.
Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...Edited by DDuke on 7 October 2017 17:111 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
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It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.
No it's not, but it's still a poorly implemented skill. 0 setup with huge payoffs. Melee openers at least require you to be within melee range. I'll take 4 melee gankers over 4 snipers any day.Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...
I do this already. Most are nbs that stealth out after you spend all your resources getting to the backlines anyways. I can handle it. I usually win these fights or simply disengage if the lagg/zerg is too much.
This isn't me frustrated that I keep dying to these builds. They simply are not fun to play against. It's mindless gameplay. Most of the times that I actually die to a snipe is when I've been fighting people for a while and a sniper rolls up and potshots me. That I'm honestly fine with, what is not ok is a huge portion of the pvp population doing nothing but tapping a button.
My suggestion would also up PvE bow dps by a significant margin which was also something I was considering. In a PvP specific solution I'd prefer snipe to have some kind of setup, smaller range at first, but range increases and cast time decreases the more times you hit your opponent.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.
No it's not, but it's still a poorly implemented skill. 0 setup with huge payoffs. Melee openers at least require you to be within melee range. I'll take 4 melee gankers over 4 snipers any day.Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...
I do this already. Most are nbs that stealth out after you spend all your resources getting to the backlines anyways. I can handle it. I usually win these fights or simply disengage if the lagg/zerg is too much.
This isn't me frustrated that I keep dying to these builds. They simply are not fun to play against. It's mindless gameplay. Most of the times that I actually die to a snipe is when I've been fighting people for a while and a sniper rolls up and potshots me. That I'm honestly fine with, what is not ok is a huge portion of the pvp population doing nothing but tapping a button.
My suggestion would also up PvE bow dps by a significant margin which was also something I was considering. In a PvP specific solution I'd prefer snipe to have some kind of setup, smaller range at first, but range increases and cast time decreases the more times you hit your opponent.
Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^Edited by DDuke on 7 October 2017 17:400 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭
Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^
I agree that it's their choice to make, but it's really poor game design that it's even a viable option. And it's really only annoying on my magicka sorc. I don't want to run dark deal/amberplasm but its becoming necessary at this point.
On a side note, I would have assumed magicka wardens would be the worst. Fought one 1v1 on my medium stamblade for the first time the other day. He also had the ice ultimate up inside of a tower. No idea how to counter that lol.
Ya I am on console, so no MIATs. But I prefer it that way tbh.Edited by IAVITNI on 7 October 2017 18:020 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^
I agree that it's their choice to make, but it's really poor game design that it's even a viable option. And it's really only annoying on my magicka sorc. I don't want to run dark deal/amberplasm but its becoming necessary at this point.
On a side note, I would have assumed magicka wardens would be the worst. Fought one 1v1 on my medium stamblade for the first time the other day. He also had the ice ultimate up inside of a tower. No idea how to counter that lol.
Ya I am on console, so no MIATs. But I prefer it that way tbh.
Well, thing with magicka wardens is... you can see their birds/heavy attacks with Miat's & simply hit block (or cloak) when the cast timer tells you to - it basicly serves as a 50% (block) dmg debuff to Wardens lol
Example: https://youtu.be/LnAmR9dawa4?t=4m51s
There are some good ones that know how to combo (and land) Shalks with bird & ultimate, but unless they're running a really high dmg build it typically isn't quite enough to kill you.Edited by DDuke on 7 October 2017 18:350 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
What class and weapons do you roll with? We can see what we can nerf of yours.
Seriously, you are focusing on skills you die to when attacked by multiple players thinking it is a problem with the skills. A player with a high skill level can often handle 1vX and it is due to the skill level.
No offense to however you play, but there are players that live and breath PvP and much of that group did well before ESO. It is a matter of figuring out how to handle the situation, including gearing and a dose of good area awareness which also includes your characters health. Lets not forget reacting fast to a changing situation. Health bars getting smaller is a changing situation.1 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭With some buffs to support, i'd like this idea. More of a involved attack.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
What class and weapons do you roll with? We can see what we can nerf of yours.
Seriously, you are focusing on skills you die to when attacked by multiple players thinking it is a problem with the skills. A player with a high skill level can often handle 1vX and it is due to the skill level.
No offense to however you play, but there are players that live and breath PvP and much of that group did well before ESO. It is a matter of figuring out how to handle the situation, including gearing and a dose of good area awareness which also includes your characters health. Lets not forget reacting fast to a changing situation. Health bars getting smaller is a changing situation.
So you're saying that a skill that lets you hit for 12k and can often land two hits in high latency situations before the game actually registers the hit is healthy gameplay? I've been in fights where my health bar goes from 100-0 and my death recap shows +2 Snipes when none of it registered on my health bar.
I run a stamblade, magplar, stam dk, stam sorc, magicka sorc and am in the process of levelling a warden (undecided on resource). I don't usually die to JUST snipe (arguably never outside of ganks/"afk" [in menu on mount]), and the killing blow is rarely ever snipe itself when I 1vx. An ability that you can use to deal 6k-9k health and apply major defile from 28 yards away in stealth that requires no setup is not healthy. It's along the same line as proc gank builds, which ZoS nerfed. No, it's not as strong, but the concept is the same: high burst with with huge pay off with minimized risk and minimum player involvement.
No I'm not one of those people who will 1vx 10 people. My highest is 7 and my average 2-4. If I get hit by snipe I immediately dodge roll and move to LoS. I know how to play. Just because people can counter something doesn't mean its healthy game play. I can survive a soul assault on my medium stamblade. So does that mean soul assault doesn't need a nerf? I've beat sword and board ultimate spammers. So does that mean they don't need a nerf?
I'm pointing out 1 of many unhealthy aspects in the game. I'm a PvP main and I've played all classes at least once. I'm only confident in sorcerer knowledge wise but I understand the basics of all classes. I don't advocate for "play style", I am concerned about healthy gameplay. Every build I've ran has taught me about game mechanics. Snipe builds will teach you how to tap a button and run if the enemy moves towards you.
For reference: I have 5 sorcs, 2 night blades and one of every other class
Mag Sorc: skills-Mag sorc... dw+resto
stamblade: 2h+bow surprise attack (at one point literally executioner and incap to target AD crowns/my guild leaders xD)
stamsorc: 2h, DW, bow
Stam dk: 2h+1h/shield
magplar: dw+1h/shield
warden-in progress (I want to make a DW/2h mag heavy. idk how but i'm gonna try)0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭
Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^
I agree that it's their choice to make, but it's really poor game design that it's even a viable option. And it's really only annoying on my magicka sorc. I don't want to run dark deal/amberplasm but its becoming necessary at this point.
On a side note, I would have assumed magicka wardens would be the worst. Fought one 1v1 on my medium stamblade for the first time the other day. He also had the ice ultimate up inside of a tower. No idea how to counter that lol.
Ya I am on console, so no MIATs. But I prefer it that way tbh.
Well, thing with magicka wardens is... you can see their birds/heavy attacks with Miat's & simply hit block (or cloak) when the cast timer tells you to - it basicly serves as a 50% (block) dmg debuff to Wardens lol
Example: https://youtu.be/LnAmR9dawa4?t=4m51s
There are some good ones that know how to combo (and land) Shalks with bird & ultimate, but unless they're running a really high dmg build it typically isn't quite enough to kill you.
haha never thought of it that way. Im still learning to stamblade and still adjusting to medium from shield/heavy armor so I reflexively roll dodge birds because I never thought they hurt before. But definitely good advice. Thank you
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MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Think the thing is not so much that these skills need nerfed. It's that zergs need to be nerfed into the ground.They nerf everything else.Why not zergs?0 -
Jake1576✭✭✭✭✭We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.
Just no1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.4 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
Ironically,my magplar and stamdk are the most annoying to play in a 1vx vs snipe spammers due to their low mobility. Like I've said, snipe isn't what actually gets me killed, it's just not fun to be killed by a 0 skill ability. I'm sorry you get stomped by sorcs though.
Snipe promotes unhealthy gameplay, just like a few other skills/mechanics in this game.
By your logic, sorcs are overtuned because they "also stand at range and push a button for ranged attacks" so you should agree that a ranged skill with a Major Defile, 0 risk to the caster at 28 meters and 0 skill required should also be nerfed. But I guess you can't see that with all the salt your eyes.
Any ability/mechanic that has high reward but low risk is unhealthy gameplay. Snipe is one of those abilities.0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.
You're looking at the skill in a vaccuum.
It's the same thing as a sorc standing behind a zerg spamming Mages Wrath/Endless Fury except you get to be 28 meters away. It's not the kind of game play that should be rewarded. It's an easy 1 button spam that kills people without any real effort. Its an unhealthy mechanic.
The constant incentivizing of mindless button mashing is what is making PvP into a zergfest. Instead of learning how to play, new players see a build where they tap 1 button and recieve a relative high reward.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.
Not extensively. It's a dull skill. It's relative high reward, for pressing one button you can deal 7k-12k damage to a target 28 meters away while applying Major Defile, no thought, planning required. For new players that come in,why even bother learning a real offensive rotation when 1 button gets you a kill. Like I've said before, skills like snipe promote unhealthy gameplay. Its a bad skill and should be changed. I offered a suggestion while your content to play in a game that requires less thought every patch.
Edited by IAVITNI on 8 October 2017 16:551 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Remove cast time, add knockdown. And make it targeted. Could get some almost trickshot style style stuff and can be used as a spammable.
Kind of the opposite of where I'm going with this xD. Knowing you got killed by someone who tapped a button 28m away while you're holding your own against +2 people is frustrating. Atleast if they had to aim the shot one could think "I hate that I died but that was a nice shot"
I agree that Bow needs a buff. They should start by making scatter shot a stun rather than a disorient and give it a base heal that doubles if the opponent breaks free.
If you make snipe a targeted AoE, remove the cast time and increase projectile speed so that it lands shortly afte cast it would be much less frustrating to die to and more rewarding to actually get a kill.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Remove cast time, add knockdown. And make it targeted. Could get some almost trickshot style style stuff and can be used as a spammable.
Kind of the opposite of where I'm going with this xD. Knowing you got killed by someone who tapped a button 28m away while you're holding your own against +2 people is frustrating. Atleast if they had to aim the shot one could think "I hate that I died but that was a nice shot"
I agree that Bow needs a buff. They should start by making scatter shot a stun rather than a disorient and give it a base heal that doubles if the opponent breaks free.
If you make snipe a targeted AoE, remove the cast time and increase projectile speed so that it lands shortly afte cast it would be much less frustrating to die to and more rewarding to actually get a kill.
It'd still have a travel time, so you could move out the way of it . Just not the drawback animation, because you'd need to aim it.Edited by ak_pvp on 8 October 2017 17:52MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.
You're looking at the skill in a vaccuum.
It's the same thing as a sorc standing behind a zerg spamming Mages Wrath/Endless Fury except you get to be 28 meters away. It's not the kind of game play that should be rewarded. It's an easy 1 button spam that kills people without any real effort. Its an unhealthy mechanic.
The constant incentivizing of mindless button mashing is what is making PvP into a zergfest. Instead of learning how to play, new players see a build where they tap 1 button and recieve a relative high reward.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.
Not extensively. It's a dull skill. It's relative high reward, for pressing one button you can deal 7k-12k damage to a target 28 meters away while applying Major Defile, no thought, planning required. For new players that come in,why even bother learning a real offensive rotation when 1 button gets you a kill. Like I've said before, skills like snipe promote unhealthy gameplay. Its a bad skill and should be changed. I offered a suggestion while your content to play in a game that requires less thought every patch.
I believe if you check you will find that Mages Fury and morphs has a 28m range. So does Crystal Frag and Dark Flare. Best thing is that Dark Flare does AOE Major Defile, so while you can dodge Snipe and not get Major Defile, you cant dodge Major Defile from Dark Flare. Best thing about those is they have class executes at 28m and one of them is undodgable.
Ground targeted cast skills are not good for PVP. They bug out and leave you stuck in the targetting animation, some are worse than other, but all ground taretted cast skills suffer from this.
Clicking Snipe does not entail 7-12k with any consistent basis. It entails: dodge, dodge, dodge, blocked for 2k, reflected now you need to dodge, absorbed for 5k, hit for 6k, dodge, dodge, dodge, missed<---my personal favorite, crit for 8-12k, blocked, dodge, dodge.
Anyone with a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. Anyone with an absorb will absorb it without breaking a sweat and they wont even get the Major defile effect that way. Any stam build without a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. The only advantages to Snipe are high damage and Defile, otherwise its worthless.
Your shots are negated far more than they land. And that is on console where there is not an addon giving you another 1.1 seconds advance warning.
I'm all for buffing the bow, but not on the premise that Snipe is somehow strong. And certainly not by changing Snipe to a ground targeted AOE.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.
You're looking at the skill in a vaccuum.
It's the same thing as a sorc standing behind a zerg spamming Mages Wrath/Endless Fury except you get to be 28 meters away. It's not the kind of game play that should be rewarded. It's an easy 1 button spam that kills people without any real effort. Its an unhealthy mechanic.
The constant incentivizing of mindless button mashing is what is making PvP into a zergfest. Instead of learning how to play, new players see a build where they tap 1 button and recieve a relative high reward.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.
Not extensively. It's a dull skill. It's relative high reward, for pressing one button you can deal 7k-12k damage to a target 28 meters away while applying Major Defile, no thought, planning required. For new players that come in,why even bother learning a real offensive rotation when 1 button gets you a kill. Like I've said before, skills like snipe promote unhealthy gameplay. Its a bad skill and should be changed. I offered a suggestion while your content to play in a game that requires less thought every patch.
I believe if you check you will find that Mages Fury and morphs has a 28m range. So does Crystal Frag and Dark Flare. Best thing is that Dark Flare does AOE Major Defile, so while you can dodge Snipe and not get Major Defile, you cant dodge Major Defile from Dark Flare. Best thing about those is they have class executes at 28m and one of them is undodgable.
Ground targeted cast skills are not good for PVP. They bug out and leave you stuck in the targetting animation, some are worse than other, but all ground taretted cast skills suffer from this.
Clicking Snipe does not entail 7-12k with any consistent basis. It entails: dodge, dodge, dodge, blocked for 2k, reflected now you need to dodge, absorbed for 5k, hit for 6k, dodge, dodge, dodge, missed<---my personal favorite, crit for 8-12k, blocked, dodge, dodge.
Anyone with a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. Anyone with an absorb will absorb it without breaking a sweat and they wont even get the Major defile effect that way. Any stam build without a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. The only advantages to Snipe are high damage and Defile, otherwise its worthless.
Your shots are negated far more than they land. And that is on console where there is not an addon giving you another 1.1 seconds advance warning.
I'm all for buffing the bow, but not on the premise that Snipe is somehow strong. And certainly not by changing Snipe to a ground targeted AOE.
In another thread recently about 15% dodge chance on shuffle, the poster of a video showed himself in stealth casting Snipe against a dozing opponent.
The result was dodge(shuffle), dodge(shuffle), dodge(shuffle), 6k [*guy wakes up at this point*], dodge (dodge roll), miss (Cloak). Hilarious, because it shows how many counters the skill has, and it didn't even use block, reflect or shield.Edited by danno8 on 8 October 2017 19:491 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
I believe if you check you will find that Mages Fury and morphs has a 28m range. So does Crystal Frag and Dark Flare. Best thing is that Dark Flare does AOE Major Defile, so while you can dodge Snipe and not get Major Defile, you cant dodge Major Defile from Dark Flare. Best thing about those is they have class executes at 28m and one of them is undodgable.
Ground targeted cast skills are not good for PVP. They bug out and leave you stuck in the targetting animation, some are worse than other, but all ground taretted cast skills suffer from this.
Clicking Snipe does not entail 7-12k with any consistent basis. It entails: dodge, dodge, dodge, blocked for 2k, reflected now you need to dodge, absorbed for 5k, hit for 6k, dodge, dodge, dodge, missed<---my personal favorite, crit for 8-12k, blocked, dodge, dodge.
Anyone with a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. Anyone with an absorb will absorb it without breaking a sweat and they wont even get the Major defile effect that way. Any stam build without a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. The only advantages to Snipe are high damage and Defile, otherwise its worthless.
Your shots are negated far more than they land. And that is on console where there is not an addon giving you another 1.1 seconds advance warning.
I'm all for buffing the bow, but not on the premise that Snipe is somehow strong. And certainly not by changing Snipe to a ground targeted AOE.
Ya your right regarding range. Been mixing them up, snipe is 35m, sorc skills are 28m. 7m is a considerable distance in a 1vx, especially in the tank/snare meta. And I've never said snipe was op or overly strong. It's the lack of effort required on the snipers part.
For example, a stamblade landing an ambush>HA>incap>execute burst requires knowledge of classes for timing purposes as well as good animation canceling, which is a skill (not commenting on validity of it, just saying its something you learn). 6 snipes flying at you in a 1vx is annoying because you know the sniper isn't really doing anything worthy of praise. In my CoD days, if I got killed by a quick scope, sure I'd rage at times but I still respected the kill because it took skill. Snipe spam is just disappointing. Changing it to a targetable AoE would require some thought regarding the skill.
I agree its not the best alternative now, it was just something I thought of, and based on feedback I can see how its flawed. However, most responses don't highlight why the flaw and instead aggressively defend snipe as if its perfectly healthy game design, which it is not.
In another thread recently about 15% dodge chance on shuffle, the poster of a video showed himself in stealth casting Snipe against a dozing opponent.
The result was dodge(shuffle), dodge(shuffle), dodge(shuffle), 6k [*guy wakes up at this point*], dodge (dodge roll), miss (Cloak). Hilarious, because it shows how many counters the skill has, and it didn't even use block, reflect or shield.
Ya I saw that. People also question the validity of passive dodge as a fair mechanic, in any game really. Using a dodgy mechanic to validate an argument regarding the validity of another dodgy mechanic is an interesting approach to say the least.
There are counters to perma blockers too. It's "hilarious" that people complain when everyone could just ignore them or run full DoT builds. Unhealthy game mechanics are unhealthy game mechanics. I can deal with snipe spams in a 1vx just as people can deal with permgablockers. Doesn't mean these mechanics should be incentivized.
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Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭So wait...dark flare is only used by zergers? I mean...thats a bit bullcrap isnt it?
Have you never 1v1 a dark flare glass canon?
Dark flare is my absolute favorite skill. It hits hard, but because of the cast time, and the way the skill scales with CP, you pretty much have to build glass cannon. Meaning that even in 1v1 i have to take you out quick. Cause if you get ahold of me im toast.
A fair bit of setting up thats required to make use of the skill properly. I have to drop volcanic rune, buff up, start casting. If i see you dodge or block, thats fine ill just keep on spamming. Ur still draining resources rolling. Once that volcanic rune pops though...GG.
Unfortunatly yeah alot of zerglings do use the skill. Kids that are too scared to leave the group once in awhile. Dont get me wrong im guilty of it. I spam the *** outa flare on siege lines from a keep, and reap in easy kills...but how is it any different than a sorc going through his rotation? Contrary to your belief there is a rotation involved with it. Theres a combo i need to hit you with. If you die to a player casting flare and no javs or radiant, than thats your fault. Should have recognized the skill. You can see them from a mile away. Also in order to get that kind of damage on flare,, youre going to be about the squishiest thing on the field. Soo...maybe target the glass right? If you dont....thats your fault. Why do i need to be forced into playing a sweeplar just because you cant counter?1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.
You have seriously got to be kidding me, nothin in this game has been nerfed directly and indirectly more than the bow line.
Reduced damage - Check
Reduced damage from stealth - check
Add ons being allowed to detect when you are using it without someone targeting you - check
Weapons doing less base damage than SWORD AND SHIELD - check
Put impen on your armor, if you dont do that, its your own fault. And if they do get the attack off, its a reward / risk situation. We have to run medium armor to be effective, making us incredibly squishy. If us rangers are caught out by multiple targets, we are goners. Note, not all rangers are nightblades. Also, the lag works both ways, sometimes it takes 3 secons for our snipe to even fire off, and a lot of the time it doesnt ever fire and we still are charged stam for it .4 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
What class and weapons do you roll with? We can see what we can nerf of yours.
Seriously, you are focusing on skills you die to when attacked by multiple players thinking it is a problem with the skills. A player with a high skill level can often handle 1vX and it is due to the skill level.
No offense to however you play, but there are players that live and breath PvP and much of that group did well before ESO. It is a matter of figuring out how to handle the situation, including gearing and a dose of good area awareness which also includes your characters health. Lets not forget reacting fast to a changing situation. Health bars getting smaller is a changing situation.
Some abilities are very poorly designed and they are zerg tools. Thats no secret. Just because certain builds can counter them and other builds cant, doesnt mean that the skills are balanced and anyone who dies to them needs to L2P.
Soul assault is prety much a guaranteed death sentence to outnumbered medium armor builds, manageable against shield builds and almost useless against tanks. That doesnt mean that medium armor builds that die to it, need to L2P because others can manage it or that the skill is balanced. Same applies with snipe.0