Bow already has an AoE that is targeted to an area of the ground. It would be a bad idea to take away the only single target skill from bow that is not a dot or CC.
Dark flare is fine as it is and especially so since the Templar has an AoE that targets an area of the ground already.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.
Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...
Snipe isn't exactly the most broken thing out there (I can deal literally 3x more damage in an instant with a melee opener), but I wouldn't be against changing Snipe into a narrow frontal cone that you have to aim (similar to Shalks, but much longer range), that'd certainly make it more skill based and fun imo.
No it's not, but it's still a poorly implemented skill. 0 setup with huge payoffs. Melee openers at least require you to be within melee range. I'll take 4 melee gankers over 4 snipers any day.Also, just a tip: if you're in a 1vX scenario and there are multiple archers, I'd suggest dealing with the archers first - they are extremely squishy and usually die in less than two seconds if you pressure them. Sets like Morag Tong & Marksman don't exactly boost your healing/survivability...
I do this already. Most are nbs that stealth out after you spend all your resources getting to the backlines anyways. I can handle it. I usually win these fights or simply disengage if the lagg/zerg is too much.
This isn't me frustrated that I keep dying to these builds. They simply are not fun to play against. It's mindless gameplay. Most of the times that I actually die to a snipe is when I've been fighting people for a while and a sniper rolls up and potshots me. That I'm honestly fine with, what is not ok is a huge portion of the pvp population doing nothing but tapping a button.
My suggestion would also up PvE bow dps by a significant margin which was also something I was considering. In a PvP specific solution I'd prefer snipe to have some kind of setup, smaller range at first, but range increases and cast time decreases the more times you hit your opponent.
Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^
Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^
I agree that it's their choice to make, but it's really poor game design that it's even a viable option. And it's really only annoying on my magicka sorc. I don't want to run dark deal/amberplasm but its becoming necessary at this point.
On a side note, I would have assumed magicka wardens would be the worst. Fought one 1v1 on my medium stamblade for the first time the other day. He also had the ice ultimate up inside of a tower. No idea how to counter that lol.
Ya I am on console, so no MIATs. But I prefer it that way tbh.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
With some buffs to support, i'd like this idea. More of a involved attack.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
What class and weapons do you roll with? We can see what we can nerf of yours.
Seriously, you are focusing on skills you die to when attacked by multiple players thinking it is a problem with the skills. A player with a high skill level can often handle 1vX and it is due to the skill level.
No offense to however you play, but there are players that live and breath PvP and much of that group did well before ESO. It is a matter of figuring out how to handle the situation, including gearing and a dose of good area awareness which also includes your characters health. Lets not forget reacting fast to a changing situation. Health bars getting smaller is a changing situation.
Well, everyone has their own "frustrating to fight against" builds - in my case (as medium melee stamblade) there's a lot of them, but I'd raise permablock Skoria DKs as one of the worst ones. Archers are probably the easiest as you just dodge roll, cloak, gap close, combo & gather AP :P
As for players just "tapping a button"... that's their choice to make (and it's not a very effective one).
Next patch you'll see significantly less of these (assuming you play on console where players can expect to land snipes) as BiS setup involves landing a 20m range skill before snipe lands.
Still, I'm not against anything that'd make gameplay more skill based ^^
I agree that it's their choice to make, but it's really poor game design that it's even a viable option. And it's really only annoying on my magicka sorc. I don't want to run dark deal/amberplasm but its becoming necessary at this point.
On a side note, I would have assumed magicka wardens would be the worst. Fought one 1v1 on my medium stamblade for the first time the other day. He also had the ice ultimate up inside of a tower. No idea how to counter that lol.
Ya I am on console, so no MIATs. But I prefer it that way tbh.
Well, thing with magicka wardens is... you can see their birds/heavy attacks with Miat's & simply hit block (or cloak) when the cast timer tells you to - it basicly serves as a 50% (block) dmg debuff to Wardens lol
Example: https://youtu.be/LnAmR9dawa4?t=4m51s
There are some good ones that know how to combo (and land) Shalks with bird & ultimate, but unless they're running a really high dmg build it typically isn't quite enough to kill you.
We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.
TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.
Remove cast time, add knockdown. And make it targeted. Could get some almost trickshot style style stuff and can be used as a spammable.
Remove cast time, add knockdown. And make it targeted. Could get some almost trickshot style style stuff and can be used as a spammable.
Kind of the opposite of where I'm going with this xD. Knowing you got killed by someone who tapped a button 28m away while you're holding your own against +2 people is frustrating. Atleast if they had to aim the shot one could think "I hate that I died but that was a nice shot"
I agree that Bow needs a buff. They should start by making scatter shot a stun rather than a disorient and give it a base heal that doubles if the opponent breaks free.
If you make snipe a targeted AoE, remove the cast time and increase projectile speed so that it lands shortly afte cast it would be much less frustrating to die to and more rewarding to actually get a kill.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.
You're looking at the skill in a vaccuum.
It's the same thing as a sorc standing behind a zerg spamming Mages Wrath/Endless Fury except you get to be 28 meters away. It's not the kind of game play that should be rewarded. It's an easy 1 button spam that kills people without any real effort. Its an unhealthy mechanic.
The constant incentivizing of mindless button mashing is what is making PvP into a zergfest. Instead of learning how to play, new players see a build where they tap 1 button and recieve a relative high reward.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.
Not extensively. It's a dull skill. It's relative high reward, for pressing one button you can deal 7k-12k damage to a target 28 meters away while applying Major Defile, no thought, planning required. For new players that come in,why even bother learning a real offensive rotation when 1 button gets you a kill. Like I've said before, skills like snipe promote unhealthy gameplay. Its a bad skill and should be changed. I offered a suggestion while your content to play in a game that requires less thought every patch.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »LOL a sorc crying about snipe when he also stands at range and pushes a button for ranged attacks.
It is rather ridiculous aint it. Complaining about the most easily countered skill in the game.
Dodge, block, interrupt, reflect, los, shield, heal. It cannot be instantly cast under any circumstances.
I mean this skill is mocked to the point that players openly claim: "only noobs use it." And OP wants it nerfed? It is so ridiculous, that it seems it could only come from someone T rolling.
You're looking at the skill in a vaccuum.
It's the same thing as a sorc standing behind a zerg spamming Mages Wrath/Endless Fury except you get to be 28 meters away. It's not the kind of game play that should be rewarded. It's an easy 1 button spam that kills people without any real effort. Its an unhealthy mechanic.
The constant incentivizing of mindless button mashing is what is making PvP into a zergfest. Instead of learning how to play, new players see a build where they tap 1 button and recieve a relative high reward.Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
High reward... LOL
You clearly have never used Snipe.
Not extensively. It's a dull skill. It's relative high reward, for pressing one button you can deal 7k-12k damage to a target 28 meters away while applying Major Defile, no thought, planning required. For new players that come in,why even bother learning a real offensive rotation when 1 button gets you a kill. Like I've said before, skills like snipe promote unhealthy gameplay. Its a bad skill and should be changed. I offered a suggestion while your content to play in a game that requires less thought every patch.
I believe if you check you will find that Mages Fury and morphs has a 28m range. So does Crystal Frag and Dark Flare. Best thing is that Dark Flare does AOE Major Defile, so while you can dodge Snipe and not get Major Defile, you cant dodge Major Defile from Dark Flare. Best thing about those is they have class executes at 28m and one of them is undodgable.
Ground targeted cast skills are not good for PVP. They bug out and leave you stuck in the targetting animation, some are worse than other, but all ground taretted cast skills suffer from this.
Clicking Snipe does not entail 7-12k with any consistent basis. It entails: dodge, dodge, dodge, blocked for 2k, reflected now you need to dodge, absorbed for 5k, hit for 6k, dodge, dodge, dodge, missed<---my personal favorite, crit for 8-12k, blocked, dodge, dodge.
Anyone with a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. Anyone with an absorb will absorb it without breaking a sweat and they wont even get the Major defile effect that way. Any stam build without a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. The only advantages to Snipe are high damage and Defile, otherwise its worthless.
Your shots are negated far more than they land. And that is on console where there is not an addon giving you another 1.1 seconds advance warning.
I'm all for buffing the bow, but not on the premise that Snipe is somehow strong. And certainly not by changing Snipe to a ground targeted AOE.
Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
I believe if you check you will find that Mages Fury and morphs has a 28m range. So does Crystal Frag and Dark Flare. Best thing is that Dark Flare does AOE Major Defile, so while you can dodge Snipe and not get Major Defile, you cant dodge Major Defile from Dark Flare. Best thing about those is they have class executes at 28m and one of them is undodgable.
Ground targeted cast skills are not good for PVP. They bug out and leave you stuck in the targetting animation, some are worse than other, but all ground taretted cast skills suffer from this.
Clicking Snipe does not entail 7-12k with any consistent basis. It entails: dodge, dodge, dodge, blocked for 2k, reflected now you need to dodge, absorbed for 5k, hit for 6k, dodge, dodge, dodge, missed<---my personal favorite, crit for 8-12k, blocked, dodge, dodge.
Anyone with a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. Anyone with an absorb will absorb it without breaking a sweat and they wont even get the Major defile effect that way. Any stam build without a shield will block it without breaking a sweat. The only advantages to Snipe are high damage and Defile, otherwise its worthless.
Your shots are negated far more than they land. And that is on console where there is not an addon giving you another 1.1 seconds advance warning.
I'm all for buffing the bow, but not on the premise that Snipe is somehow strong. And certainly not by changing Snipe to a ground targeted AOE.
In another thread recently about 15% dodge chance on shuffle, the poster of a video showed himself in stealth casting Snipe against a dozing opponent.
The result was dodge(shuffle), dodge(shuffle), dodge(shuffle), 6k [*guy wakes up at this point*], dodge (dodge roll), miss (Cloak). Hilarious, because it shows how many counters the skill has, and it didn't even use block, reflect or shield.
We already have this for Revealing Flare. Change Snipe/Dark Flare to ground based AoEs with a 3 meter radius and reduce the cast time to 0.5 or remove it entirely. Every zergling runs this skill. It's no fun going from full health to zero in the middle of a fight because someone tapped a button twice from stealth, 28m away from you with 0 threat to themselves. It's made worse by the fact that this is a zerg skill and having 72 zerglings in one area causes extreme lag and you don't see/hear the snipe until you've walked for 2 minutes with all your resources at 0 unable to cast anything because you actually died 2 minutes ago.
It seems more that you are having issue with large zergs than the skills they are using. If you are getting killed by two snipes in a row by one player then start paying attention to your health and dodge roll/shield/heal/break LoS.
1v1 I have no issues with snipe. But it's not just two snipes in a row by one player. It's usually at least 2 players 28 meters away while they have their other zerglings wailing on your face. So am I supposed to spend my entire fight roll dodging?
The real issue is that every patch, ZoS provides tools that incentivize zerging. Not co-ordinated group play but pure zerging.
"Press this button while in a ball group and you get ap"
If they just want the whole of AvA to be zerg on zerg action, reduce the map to 3 keeps and have everyone move to the middle like a MOBA.
They keep removing tools for solo play and it diminishes solo play. If they start reducing the effectiveness of zerg tools, the zergs will decrease.ezeepeezee wrote: »Gotta agree with this. Cyrodiil is an open battlefield. If you're not capable of withstanding incoming fire you need to take cover. It's part of why so many stam players are choosing stam warden, the active defense of shimmering shield. But some classes don't have that (like stam sorc) and need to take cover.
Essentially you're saying that sitting 28 meters away in stealth with 0 threat to yourself when you can kill someone in a matter of seconds is healthy gameplay. It requires 0 skill, 0 risk but high reward. My suggestion maintains the effectiveness of the skill without removing its niche. It still works perfectly fine in a zerg, even more so as it can hit multiple people.
What class and weapons do you roll with? We can see what we can nerf of yours.
Seriously, you are focusing on skills you die to when attacked by multiple players thinking it is a problem with the skills. A player with a high skill level can often handle 1vX and it is due to the skill level.
No offense to however you play, but there are players that live and breath PvP and much of that group did well before ESO. It is a matter of figuring out how to handle the situation, including gearing and a dose of good area awareness which also includes your characters health. Lets not forget reacting fast to a changing situation. Health bars getting smaller is a changing situation.