What does this screenshot from the logs mean to you?

kojou · May 2023

People just like playing DK because the skills use fire and fire is fun.

Volrath · May 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Only 400k group dps? Bah. I feal sad when i see 1kk group DPS.

Volrath wrote: »

vRG - Bashei

Soarora · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Meta DK is harder than HA (although, I think DK is easier than some other classes), and HA’s dps is NOT low. If it’s low, it’s because someone’s build is “wrong”. Anyways, if people were requiring DK for open runs then it’d be a problem. But people doing DK stacking are just sweaty people in sweaty closed groups. If this is actually HM then it’d make sense— RG HM is very hard. It’s a prog, especially Bahsei. Want to squeeze out the most damage possible to meet some of the highest DPS checks in the game and have less time to die. If this is just non-HM then I’m not sure what they’re doing unless it’s going to be a HM prog.

What are you saying? Are you suggesting that we should only reward top-tier players and now we're including DK in that category? If this trial is extremely challenging, do people have to use DK to succeed or give up on achieving anything?
As long as it's not solely focused on Oakensoul HA builds, everything seems acceptable and fantastic.

I’m not going to bow down or beat around the bush here, yes I fully believe oakenHA shouldn’t be able to clear RG HM and no you’re not going to change my mind so don’t even try. My time of open-mindedness is over. That said, I doubt DK stacking is an absolute necessity to clear the HM (knowing your class well > doing dk badly) and the DPS check should probably be nerfed but I don’t think ZOS is going to do that. DK stacking is not a widespread epidemic, I think you’re trying to make commentary on something you don’t know about. It just is the meta composition, of which there will always be a meta composition. As I stated earlier, if you’re going to complain about DK stacking in a sweaty core when we already know DK is the strongest class then why not talk about how supports are pigeonholed into classes in even open runs. The only times DPS are pigeonholed into classes in open runs are the 2 support DPS and if it’s an oakensorc-only run.

Braffin · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Volrath wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Meta DK is harder than HA (although, I think DK is easier than some other classes), and HA’s dps is NOT low. If it’s low, it’s because someone’s build is “wrong”. Anyways, if people were requiring DK for open runs then it’d be a problem. But people doing DK stacking are just sweaty people in sweaty closed groups. If this is actually HM then it’d make sense— RG HM is very hard. It’s a prog, especially Bahsei. Want to squeeze out the most damage possible to meet some of the highest DPS checks in the game and have less time to die. If this is just non-HM then I’m not sure what they’re doing unless it’s going to be a HM prog.

What are you saying? Are you suggesting that we should only reward top-tier players and now we're including DK in that category? If this trial is extremely challenging, do people have to use DK to succeed or give up on achieving anything?
As long as it's not solely focused on Oakensoul HA builds, everything seems acceptable and fantastic.

Well as we're throwing around random parses now instead of discussing by rational arguments:

You may compare this random log with the one you provided.

PS: Next time I suggest you try comparing only the dps done to the boss itself (you can set this right above where you cut the screen) so we can compare or random parses even better

Only 400k group dps? Bah. I feal sad when i see 1kk group DPS.

Thought so much

Nonetheless I'm sure this group is happy with their results as they successfully finished the fight and had fun together doing so. Otherwise they probably would've switched to DKs.

I see absolutely no need of being sad when I witness other players reaching their goals.

On the other side I met a lot of players which never achieved their personal goals not because of bad builds or "not playing meta" but because of antisocial behaviour, unwillingness to listen, to adapt, to learn and a disability to fit in a group.

Just nobody wanted to play with them, you know? Because they killed off the joy of all others.

No build will ever chance this.

PS: It's only 318k dps. At least try to read the logs correctly plz.

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Meta DK is harder than HA (although, I think DK is easier than some other classes), and HA’s dps is NOT low. If it’s low, it’s because someone’s build is “wrong”. Anyways, if people were requiring DK for open runs then it’d be a problem. But people doing DK stacking are just sweaty people in sweaty closed groups. If this is actually HM then it’d make sense— RG HM is very hard. It’s a prog, especially Bahsei. Want to squeeze out the most damage possible to meet some of the highest DPS checks in the game and have less time to die. If this is just non-HM then I’m not sure what they’re doing unless it’s going to be a HM prog.

What are you saying? Are you suggesting that we should only reward top-tier players and now we're including DK in that category? If this trial is extremely challenging, do people have to use DK to succeed or give up on achieving anything?
As long as it's not solely focused on Oakensoul HA builds, everything seems acceptable and fantastic.

Really good players can show up on literally any class and have a good run. People do off class and meme runs of content all the time, although they were MUCH more common before AWA (RIP).

A person who is struggling on the content for the first time will in fact have an easier go of it if they bring 1) a heavy attack sorc with the inherent ease of play and survivability, or 2) a really high damage build such as a mag dk.
But! That doesn't mean they MUST, just that it's in their own best interest to do so.

You, yourself, can make whatever rules you want for your own trials, and unless you are pushing the hardest content in the game, it really doesn't matter! Bring what you want!

For what it's worth, DK was a popular class even when it absolutely sucked, because people have ALWAYS liked the fire and brimstone aspect of it.

Volrath · May 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Thought so much

Nonetheless I'm sure this group is happy with their results as they successfully finished the fight and had fun together doing so. Otherwise they probably would've switched to DKs.

I see absolutely no need of being sad when I witness other players reaching their goals.

On the other side I met a lot of players which never achieved their personal goals not because of bad builds or "not playing meta" but because of antisocial behaviour, unwillingness to listen, to adapt, to learn and a disability to fit in a group.

Just nobody wanted to play with them, you know? Because they killed off the joy of all others.

No build will ever chance this.

A group with 400k DPS is great because the members are satisfied with their accomplishment of successfully completing the fight. Fair!
If they achieve 1 million++ DPS, it's still acceptable because they are playing as DK. Fair!
However, if the group consists of HA players, suddenly it's considered imbalanced, and the solution is to nerf HA to restore balance in the game.

Well, this screenshot signifies to me that something is seriously amiss within the game.

Braffin · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Thought so much

Nonetheless I'm sure this group is happy with their results as they successfully finished the fight and had fun together doing so. Otherwise they probably would've switched to DKs.

I see absolutely no need of being sad when I witness other players reaching their goals.

On the other side I met a lot of players which never achieved their personal goals not because of bad builds or "not playing meta" but because of antisocial behaviour, unwillingness to listen, to adapt, to learn and a disability to fit in a group.

Just nobody wanted to play with them, you know? Because they killed off the joy of all others.

No build will ever chance this.

A group with 400k DPS is great because the members are satisfied with their accomplishment of successfully completing the fight. Fair!
If they achieve 1 million++ DPS, it's still acceptable because they are playing as DK. Fair!
However, if the group consists of HA players, suddenly it's considered imbalanced, and the solution is to nerf HA to restore balance in the game.

Well, this screenshot signifies to me that something is seriously amiss within the game.

So, in the end it IS a thread targeted at the upcoming HA nerfs, shrouded as thread about DK meta?

You literally denied this, as I allow me to remember you, Mr. Tradewind

Volrath wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Volrath wrote: »

So, group DPS was 1K, will it be 2K if they use HA? I'm just curious about it.

And here we have it, the next shrouded thread about sergeant brokensorc. Already wondered why there wasn't any till now today.

As for your question: As there is chance of at least 50% the HA user is pressing the wrong button on his mouse and is therefore kicked from group for "blocking like an elitist", the answer is no

Don't be afraid of threats like this. I see no harm or any reason for you to go off-topic and turn this into another Oakensoul thread. I'm just wondering how good DK is in terms of "balance" compared to other classes, that's all. And no, I've never seen a top-tier HA with more DPS than a top-tier 2-bars player.

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Thought so much

Nonetheless I'm sure this group is happy with their results as they successfully finished the fight and had fun together doing so. Otherwise they probably would've switched to DKs.

I see absolutely no need of being sad when I witness other players reaching their goals.

On the other side I met a lot of players which never achieved their personal goals not because of bad builds or "not playing meta" but because of antisocial behaviour, unwillingness to listen, to adapt, to learn and a disability to fit in a group.

Just nobody wanted to play with them, you know? Because they killed off the joy of all others.

No build will ever chance this.

A group with 400k DPS is great because the members are satisfied with their accomplishment of successfully completing the fight. Fair!
If they achieve 1 million++ DPS, it's still acceptable because they are playing as DK. Fair!
However, if the group consists of HA players, suddenly it's considered imbalanced, and the solution is to nerf HA to restore balance in the game.

Well, this screenshot signifies to me that something is seriously amiss within the game.

It's not about how much damage oakensoul builds do, its about how much damage they get for the amount of effort it requires to play one, and most reasonable people are in agreement about that, including people who play HA sorc.
It's taken a SLIGHT nerf, that MIGHT make a single trial trifecta unrealistic. Were you planning to get Swashbuckler Supreme next patch? If not, congrats, the nerf does not and will not affect you.

Volrath · May 2023

Braffin wrote: »

So, in the end it IS a thread targeted at the upcoming HA nerfs, shrouded as thread about DK meta?

This thread is all about a single screenshot and "what does it mean to all of you." To me, it means that something is very wrong with the game. It holds no further significance beyond that.

Braffin wrote: »

You literally denied this, as I allow me to remember you, Mr. Tradewind

Then you know what needs to be done.

Braffin · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

So, in the end it IS a thread targeted at the upcoming HA nerfs, shrouded as thread about DK meta?

This thread is all about a single screenshot and "what does it mean to all of you." To me, it means that something is very wrong with the game. It holds no further significance beyond that.

Braffin wrote: »

You literally denied this, as I allow me to remember you, Mr. Tradewind

Then you know what needs to be done.

Yes, I know indeed.

[snip]

Edited for baiting

Hamish999 · May 2023

kojou wrote: »

People just like playing DK because the skills use fire and fire is fun.

You're not wrong lol.
I have a magDK Oakensoul non HA build (I think I saw it on a Xynode video) that utilises the Elf Bane and Rune Carvers sets and only 1 non DK skill (Unstable Wall)

It's very fun

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

I truly don't understand the point of this thread in the first place. We are mad about HA sorcs getting a small nerf that will make them slightly less strong so we are going to complain about how strong dks are? Completely ignoring they are glass cannons that can be very difficult to play?
People feel differently about a full roster of heavy attack sorcs and a roster of mag dks because they are completely different

I don't feel inherently positive OR negative about either. As I've said several time now, I have a HA sorc. I've filled for HA sorc cores as a dd and as a healer. These cores are planning to continue next patch. I'll probably still be filling for them. Dks will still be awesome.

This is a none issue my guy. Get over it.

ZOS_Kraken · May 2023

Hello,

We know people will not always agree and many of you will share different opinions, but please remember that being rude to your fellow community members is against our forum rules and not in the spirit of our game.

Zos_Kraken

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

Hamish999 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

People just like playing DK because the skills use fire and fire is fun.

You're not wrong lol.
I have a magDK Oakensoul non HA build (I think I saw it on a Xynode video) that utilises the Elf Bane and Rune Carvers sets and only 1 non DK skill (Unstable Wall)

It's very fun

I found DK when it was simply bad, and absolutely fell in love. The flame! The whip! The standard!!!!

Hamish999 · May 2023

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Hamish999 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

People just like playing DK because the skills use fire and fire is fun.

You're not wrong lol.
I have a magDK Oakensoul non HA build (I think I saw it on a Xynode video) that utilises the Elf Bane and Rune Carvers sets and only 1 non DK skill (Unstable Wall)

It's very fun

I found DK when it was simply bad, and absolutely fell in love. The flame! The whip! The standard!!!!

My first toon and still my main is and always has been a stamDK. Through thick and thin and nerf, after nerf

Dojohoda · May 2023

CRACK THAT WHIP!

Marcus684 · May 2023

Dojohoda wrote: »

CRACK THAT WHIP!

This is the greatest gif in the world

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

Marcus684 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

CRACK THAT WHIP!

This is the greatest gif in the world

I've never seen a more accurate representation of a dk

PrincessOfThieves · May 2023

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

Marcus684 · May 2023

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This comment only highlights how ridiculous generalizations are. Plenty of us that use Oakensoul are happy that casual players can participate in more areas of the game.

PrincessOfThieves · May 2023

Marcus684 wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This comment only highlights how ridiculous generalizations are. Plenty of us that use Oakensoul are happy that casual players can participate in more areas of the game.

There are Oakensoul players who prefer to play dk. If dk gets nerfed, it would affect all dk players, not just the strongest of them.
And yet I see the same people who complain about losing a few % of dps on their Oakensorcs bringing up some leaderboard players and implying that the classes these players use must be nerfed, seemingly as some sort of revenge.

Marcus684 · May 2023

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This comment only highlights how ridiculous generalizations are. Plenty of us that use Oakensoul are happy that casual players can participate in more areas of the game.

There are Oakensoul players who prefer to play dk. If dk gets nerfed, it would affect all dk players, not just the strongest of them.
And yet I see the same people who complain about losing a few % of dps on their Oakensorcs bringing up some leaderboard players and implying that the classes these players use must be nerfed, seemingly as some sort of revenge.

You mean one player and their 2 sockpuppets? Even if it's 3 people, jumping from that to "Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals" is ridiculous.

ArchMikem · May 2023

...how, are people doing 100k+ dps now.

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

ArchMikem wrote: »

...how, are people doing 100k+ dps now.

So those numbers are just pulled from logs and are in general, not single target, which will inflate the dps a bit.

HOWEVER.

It's entirely possible, thanks to power creep, new sets, and plain ol practice to hit ridiculous numbers both on a dummy and single target in trials. We have more buff sets than ever before, and a fully optimized group can do some really neat things as far as pumping out raw damage numbers for their parse dds.

Volrath · May 2023

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This is not an attack on DK, not at all! But every time we discuss how powerful they are, it feels like the end of the world.
Any HA player doesn't care about how weak or strong other players are. In fact, we truly appreciate it when others are stronger than us.
This is not an attack. This theread It's only to show once again how powerful DK is. Too powerful indeed.

And just to make it clear, every time we talk about DK, we (HA players) are not disregarding other casual players who may be weaker. However, nerfing one build that is already weaker and nerfing the only build that many players can use, is it truly caring about them (casual players)? How so?

FantasticFreddie · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This is not an attack on DK, not at all! But every time we discuss how powerful they are, it feels like the end of the world.
Any HA player doesn't care about how weak or strong other players are. In fact, we truly appreciate it when others are stronger than us.
This is not an attack. This theread It's only to show once again how powerful DK is. Too powerful indeed.

And just to make it clear, every time we talk about DK, we (HA players) are not disregarding other casual players who may be weaker. However, nerfing one build that is already weaker and nerfing the only build that many players can use, is it truly caring about them (casual players)? How so?

Let me ask, have you actually tried HA sorc on pts?

Hamish999 · May 2023

Volrath wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This is not an attack on DK, not at all! But every time we discuss how powerful they are, it feels like the end of the world.
Any HA player doesn't care about how weak or strong other players are. In fact, we truly appreciate it when others are stronger than us.
This is not an attack. This theread It's only to show once again how powerful DK is. Too powerful indeed.

And just to make it clear, every time we talk about DK, we (HA players) are not disregarding other casual players who may be weaker. However, nerfing one build that is already weaker and nerfing the only build that many players can use, is it truly caring about them (casual players)? How so?

I use Oakensoul HA builds and I'm most definitely a casual player and I have no issue with DKs or the "nerf" to Empower.
The "nerf" (and I use that term very loosely, it is more of a tweak) is hardly going to affect us casuals anyway, it will impact the end game players that sometimes use Oakensoul for *** and giggles a bit more though.

And just for clarity. I suck at weaving always have (I've been playing for 6 years or there abouts). I like to use Oakensoul so I don't feel like I'm a hindrance to a group. In fact it allowed me to feel confident enough to PUG the newer DLC dungeons and I'm having a blast soloing dungeons etc too.

With an OakenSorc HA I can get around the high 60Ks on the trial dummy and high 30s in content. Nowhere near the 90 to 100k that top tier players can get. And even with the "nerf" I'll still be able to complete the content I want to and I'm still more than happy with that.

Braffin · May 2023

Hamish999 wrote: »

Volrath wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

I can see another Oakensorc being pissed because they're gonna lose a tiny bit of their dps so that they wanna get dks nerfed... Nevermind that only 0.0001% of dks can play like this and nerfing the class will just make the game harder for casuals who main dk. And score pushers will figure out another class that's marginally better than the rest and will start stacking that class instead of dk.
These attacks on leaderboard dks only prove that Oakensorc players do not care about other casuals.

This is not an attack on DK, not at all! But every time we discuss how powerful they are, it feels like the end of the world.
Any HA player doesn't care about how weak or strong other players are. In fact, we truly appreciate it when others are stronger than us.
This is not an attack. This theread It's only to show once again how powerful DK is. Too powerful indeed.

And just to make it clear, every time we talk about DK, we (HA players) are not disregarding other casual players who may be weaker. However, nerfing one build that is already weaker and nerfing the only build that many players can use, is it truly caring about them (casual players)? How so?

I use Oakensoul HA builds and I'm most definitely a casual player and I have no issue with DKs or the "nerf" to Empower.
The "nerf" (and I use that term very loosely, it is more of a tweak) is hardly going to affect us casuals anyway, it will impact the end game players that sometimes use Oakensoul for *** and giggles a bit more though.

And just for clarity. I suck at weaving always have (I've been playing for 6 years or there abouts). I like to use Oakensoul so I don't feel like I'm a hindrance to a group. In fact it allowed me to feel confident enough to PUG the newer DLC dungeons and I'm having a blast soloing dungeons etc too.

With an OakenSorc HA I can get around the high 60Ks on the trial dummy and high 30s in content. Nowhere near the 90 to 100k that top tier players can get. And even with the "nerf" I'll still be able to complete the content I want to and I'm still more than happy with that.

Exactly this.

Nobody is, and never was, asking for nerfing casuals into the ground as sometimes a few players are asserting around here.

The whole discussion is about trifectas in trials and dungeons and the question if there should be any effort involved to gain them or not.

And that's definitely not a casual discussion anymore. As well as no casual is comparing himself to logs done by scorepushing groups.

Skullstachio · May 2023

How is Fungal Growth dealing damage in that chart?

Rkindaleft · May 2023

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

I truly don't understand the point of this thread in the first place. We are mad about HA sorcs getting a small nerf that will make them slightly less strong so we are going to complain about how strong dks are? Completely ignoring they are glass cannons that can be very difficult to play?
People feel differently about a full roster of heavy attack sorcs and a roster of mag dks because they are completely different

I don't feel inherently positive OR negative about either. As I've said several time now, I have a HA sorc. I've filled for HA sorc cores as a dd and as a healer. These cores are planning to continue next patch. I'll probably still be filling for them. Dks will still be awesome.

This is a none issue my guy. Get over it.

I'm pretty sure OP is trying to use the log to say Magicka DK stacking in top groups is the meta and that for some reason that it is a fair argument against the nerfing of oakensorc.

Magicka Dragonknight stacking as already mentioned by someone else is not a very widespread issue, essentially limited to world record attempts/score pushing, with some guilds stacking more of them in trifecta progs. The people who stack groups of them are near or at the very top level of play with near or full optimization of support sets/composition, the average progression style guild who are doing trial HM (with the majority of DPS in those guilds now just use Oaken anyway, it's so ironic - those guilds have 4-5 of them in each run, "stacking" them too) would never run into this at all.

I don't deny that DKs are the strongest class in the game, but I also agree there's no point in comparing them to 100k DPS Oakensorc builds when the two classes don't even have remotely similar functionality or playstyle.