I’m not sure about PvP (though I feel trying to stay in melee range of another player is probably a pain) but for PvE that’s not entirely true. The meta is daggers frontbar and 2h, staff, or bow backbar (not sure if it’s been figured out which is best yet but looks like it’s going to be 2h like you mentioned). That is just the meta though, you can do whatever you want. Even in endgame you really can’t all use daggers/2h because some content requires or is easier with range. You can still do a lot of damage with staves, it’s still a very valid option.

I have a new magplar that's running sword & board + bow backbar. In PVE so far it works.

Am I topping DPS charts? No. But it's fun. Only downside is I can't heavy attack to restore magicka, so throwing in some stamina skills is necessary for sustain.

It's been this way for years in pvp outside of a few overpowered new sets (see vateshran destro on release).

It's the insane amount of flexible raw stats that the stamina weapons give that applies to all abilities, not just that weapon lines abilities.
Dual wield has the highest raw damage/pen/crit/crit damage boost of any weapon type in the game and applies those passive boosts to raw stats that count for all abilities, not just dual wield abilities only, far out performing even second place weapon in 2 handed which also does this, since dual wield has 2 passives that increase these base raw stats where 2 handed only has 1 passive that does this.
Meanwhile staff passives only apply their boosts to staff abilities, not to all abilities, so wielding a staff means that your other abilities deal significantly less base damage when compared to running dual wield.

The passives are as followes;
- dual wield expert gives a scaling boost to your weapon/spell damage equal to 6% of your off hand damage which grants between 80 and 95 raw damage values (these scale with brutality/sorcery etc).
- ruffian passive that grants a 15% damage boost against enemies that are stunned, immobilised, disoriented or silenced, which is extremely common in pvp.
- Twin blade and blunt is a mix and match passive that grants bonuses to raw stat values dependent on what weapon type you're wielding (axes 6% crit damage per axe, daggers 812 crit rating per dagger, swords 142 weapon/spell damage per sword and maces 1650 pen per mace).

2 handed have the following passives;
- heavy weapons, equivalent to twin blade and blunt, but without the ability to mix and match the stats that get buffed and no crit chance option due to no 2 handed daggers
- follow up, after completing a fully charged heavy, the next direct damage attack deals +10% damage. worse version of ruffian due to lower value and relying on a slow damage mechanic to obtain it.

destro staves have the following passives;
- penetrating magic, destruction staff abilities ignore 10% of enemies spell resistance, sounds amazing until you realise that in organised play the group is already at pen cap so this actually does nothing at all and only applies to destro staff abilities, not to all abilities like the raw damage buffs that dual wield and 2 handed passives do.
- elemental force, increases the chance to apply status effects, sounds great, but the dot ticks for status effects are so small when compared to the raw damage increases to the skills themselves that dual wield/2 handed gives by buffing raw stats.
- Ancient knowledge, increases damage of single target (flame) or aoe (lightning) abilities by 10%. This is good (after being changed to all abilities from only staff abilities as it was introduced as), but very limiting in the playstyle, and with the constant nerfs to lightning staves in the past, flame staves pulled significantly further ahead meaning that aoe is very limited for buffing magic damage.

Bow is in a weird spot, it does have some nice passives, such as up to 12% damage increase to abilities at range and a flat crit chance boost as well as up to 25% damage increase to bow abilities for weaving light attacks, but overall isn't as strong for a front bar option as the melee weapons, (it's not weak by any means, but it is slightly behind dual wield and 2 handed for front bar options).

Simply put, dual wield (and to a slightly lesser extent 2 handed) gives a lot of different types of raw passive damage buffs that can easily adapt to any meta, while destro staves provide buffs to either a very limited penetration buff (which is useless in group pve) and a small status effect chance buff (not as useless, but not as useful since the charged trait exists with over 3 times the value) and due to the long standing meta of crit being on top, due to a complete lack of any crit resistance on pve enemies and low armor values that allow for easy pen cap/over pen in pve, staff passives just don't do enough compared to other weapon types, particularly for organised group play where hitting pen cap is the norm.

I find it amusing, personally, when people refer to dual wield as being something new. People don't remember the dual wield Moondancer swords meta of Update 9 and 10 from back in 2016? I do think "balance" should be a case of one not outperforming the other by a significant margin. Lightning, flame, and ice should have their places, and they should do more or less the same as daggers or two-handed. Dual wield on magicka builds isn't something new. We've just come full circle.

wizards don't dual wield.
simple as that.
dnd rules.

Quethrosar wrote: »

wizards don't dual wield.
simple as that.
dnd rules.

While I am a big fan of anything D&D...


I'm going to have to turn to page 71 and... disagree:



They can use daggers... and there's nothing specifically stating that they cannot dual wield. So... Nirnhoned + Charged Daggers are fine.

Somber97866 wrote: »

Haha he said you can do whatever you want, even in endgame! Hahahaha what a bunch of bs! This game is always been about endgame meta and I love that but not being a magtoon with two daggers and two handed sword. That just seems to me like all the bs about everything being balanced is obviously as far from balanced as possible

The game is only about endgame meta if you want to do endgame. My comment on being able to do whatever you want is in regard to other aspects of the game as I didn't get the memo you were talking only about endgame. Regardless, no you still don't NEED to do daggers/2h. vCR, vAS, vKA, vSS, vRG, and vGD all have a use for ranged dps and I'm sure there's more content that does as well. If you're a (jabs, specifying since now there's non-jabs) templar or dk though then yeah daggers are probably your best bet. Even for melee you can possibly use a staff backbar though I'm not sure how it's looking now that MA destro actually applies the damage boost on both bars.

I would love to have a one-handed skill tree that does not involve a shield. Furthermore, a one-handed skill tree that would allow for spell casting would be quite cool.

Troodon80 wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

wizards don't dual wield.
simple as that.
dnd rules.

While I am a big fan of anything D&D...


I'm going to have to turn to page 71 and... disagree:



They can use daggers... and there's nothing specifically stating that they cannot dual wield. So... Nirnhoned + Charged Daggers are fine.

This post is meant as a joke, by the way.

In old-school, D&D neither wizards nor rogues could dual wield. Well, they could, but very ineffectively.

So let's indeed keep this to the joke level, and/or look elsewhere for our archetypes.

I LIKE playing with a staff. I do NOT like playing with swords/daggers/battle whatevers. It seems that for whatever insane reason, and I don't follow all that closely the "theory" I just do what someone or other tells me works good. Now I can't even do that. I play ALL magic toons. I usually play with staffs ONLY. What ZOS has done is made MY game, the way I like to play it, unplayable. I am not an elite player, but I have been playing and paying since BETA. I have tried a few "fixes" some have posted in an effort to enhance my damage and keep staves. Nothing works. I didn't play for 2 weeks after the change, and with the help of some really good friends/guildies, made my sorc sucks less, but my templar is still the pits. Shards isn't the spammable spear was. I was able to beat Malstrom normal BECAUSE I could heal myself while fighting. This is a HUGE option to take away from the non elite player. In one of my many rants I asked my friends WHY have they made it so a staff is no longer viable? THIS is the real question. There is NO build (that I have seen anyway) using just staves. MMOs have always had 2 types of weaponry: stamina and magic. Seems like ESO is trying to do away with the option to be full Magica. Content is no longer keeping me here. As soon as my friends find a better game, I'll be gone. WE TOLD ZOS and they CHOSE not to listen! If I sound angry it's because I AM!