The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
ZOS, Please Consider Cancelling or Postponing U35's Combat Changes
AlekWithK
✭✭✭
It has been made extremely clear that the proposed combat changes, revisions and all, are incredibly unpopular, but more importantly, harmful to ESO's combat and community.
ZOS, your stated goal was to lower the ceiling, raise the floor, and promote accessibility in ESO's combat systems. While there are immediate issues with that line of reasoning (such as the idea that a 'skill gap' in a video game is bad or unhealthy) lets focus on the implementation, and consequences of that implementation.
You claim you want to raise the floor. To make combat more accessible to those who are less able. This is, of course, a noble goal and incredibly important for any game developers to consider. But your approach has not only failed, it's dragged others down with it.
1. Forcing the meta into heavy attack builds does not in any way make the game more accessible when the game still lacks ANY sort of tutorial for new players that would allow them to discover and learn this combat mechanic.
2. Forcing the combat to become stale and slow paced as opposed to ESO's current dynamic and exciting iteration does not make the game more accessible as end game players, those who are primarily responsible for teaching new players the game (see: lack of a tutorial), leave in droves.
3. In the same vein, alienating the end game community, and especially the most experienced players, with subtle passive aggressive comments as if those who have invested the most time into learning this game at a fundamental level are the least critical to its success, furthering their desire to quit, does not make the game more accessible.
4. Nerfing in raid damage by 20-30% across the board, with healing nerfs thrown in, while reducing the health of bosses by ~10% does not make the game more accessible. It locks more content behind a skill wall, not less.
You claim you want to lower the ceiling (and I am not here arguing that the ceiling didn't need to be lowered at all). This you have done. But you've done it in the most confusingly unnecessary way.
1.Instead of adjusting numbers or considering nerfs to new dungeon and trial sets that currently contribute the most to power creep, you've attempted to completely rebuild ESO's combat system...in an eight year old game.
2.The DOT changes, while somewhat reverted, contribute to the boring and static feel of U35 combat. They also hurt new players (see: less accessibility) who don't understand how to optimize the use of sticky versus non-sticky DOTs.
3.The light attack nerfs hurt new players (see: less accessibility) as there is a not insignificant portion of ESO's casual population who rely almost entirely on light attacks to do damage.
4.The healing nerfs hurt new players (see: less accessibility) as there is some content now, regardless of the bosses HP, that is going to be incredibly hard for a new, or learning healer to handle.
5. Murdering the Warden class just... that one just doesn't make sense in any way, and there has been ample feedback given regarding how harmful those changes could be.
Lastly, you claim that all of these changes were to promote accessibility, and yet it is entirely too obvious that they do not. The consequences instead are a less dynamic, boring combat system. A substantially reduced endgame population, and yet more change fatigue as those few players who stick around are forced, once again, to relearn a game they've been playing for years. The final consequence of all this...
It feels to me, and to many others, like we're losing our family. We've been playing this game for years, with many of the same people. To watch core teams disband, entire Discord communities of thousands of members turn into ghost towns, and friends go silent, is incredibly depressing. To those of us still playing in the endgame, there is so much less excitement in the air. Raids feel almost forced. And the discussion is more often focused on "when are we quitting" and "what are we doing next" than on any experiences we're having in game.
And yet, many of us love this game. And rather than quitting, we'd like to see it improve, thrive, and adapt to the collective desires of the teams at ZOS as well as, rather than in spite of, the dedicated player base who make this game what it is.
So; if the combat changes proposed in U35 have failed in their goal (and ZOS, you have admitted as much, stating that some fixes would have to wait until U36), and have instead driven away a large portion of the endgame community. If the changes are both detrimental to your end game, and either detrimental or entirely unnoticeable to your new and casual players...
...then why force them through? Postpone the U35 combat changes. In their current form, no one is benefitting from them. Release the new content as it's wonderful (the encounter team is on fire lately), but save the combat changes for the future. Wait for more feedback. Reconsider your goals and priorities when it comes to ESO combat. Communicate more effectively and more timely with your player base. And then try them again.
The game will not fall apart in the meantime. There is no good to come of rushing these changes through, and no harm in waiting. The game is in a perfectly playable, dare I say, very good patch in terms of accessibility (high damage = more accessible content) and enjoyment. There is no shame, only respect garnered, in holding off.
Thank you for your time.
ZOS, your stated goal was to lower the ceiling, raise the floor, and promote accessibility in ESO's combat systems. While there are immediate issues with that line of reasoning (such as the idea that a 'skill gap' in a video game is bad or unhealthy) lets focus on the implementation, and consequences of that implementation.
You claim you want to raise the floor. To make combat more accessible to those who are less able. This is, of course, a noble goal and incredibly important for any game developers to consider. But your approach has not only failed, it's dragged others down with it.
1. Forcing the meta into heavy attack builds does not in any way make the game more accessible when the game still lacks ANY sort of tutorial for new players that would allow them to discover and learn this combat mechanic.
2. Forcing the combat to become stale and slow paced as opposed to ESO's current dynamic and exciting iteration does not make the game more accessible as end game players, those who are primarily responsible for teaching new players the game (see: lack of a tutorial), leave in droves.
3. In the same vein, alienating the end game community, and especially the most experienced players, with subtle passive aggressive comments as if those who have invested the most time into learning this game at a fundamental level are the least critical to its success, furthering their desire to quit, does not make the game more accessible.
4. Nerfing in raid damage by 20-30% across the board, with healing nerfs thrown in, while reducing the health of bosses by ~10% does not make the game more accessible. It locks more content behind a skill wall, not less.
You claim you want to lower the ceiling (and I am not here arguing that the ceiling didn't need to be lowered at all). This you have done. But you've done it in the most confusingly unnecessary way.
1.Instead of adjusting numbers or considering nerfs to new dungeon and trial sets that currently contribute the most to power creep, you've attempted to completely rebuild ESO's combat system...in an eight year old game.
2.The DOT changes, while somewhat reverted, contribute to the boring and static feel of U35 combat. They also hurt new players (see: less accessibility) who don't understand how to optimize the use of sticky versus non-sticky DOTs.
3.The light attack nerfs hurt new players (see: less accessibility) as there is a not insignificant portion of ESO's casual population who rely almost entirely on light attacks to do damage.
4.The healing nerfs hurt new players (see: less accessibility) as there is some content now, regardless of the bosses HP, that is going to be incredibly hard for a new, or learning healer to handle.
5. Murdering the Warden class just... that one just doesn't make sense in any way, and there has been ample feedback given regarding how harmful those changes could be.
Lastly, you claim that all of these changes were to promote accessibility, and yet it is entirely too obvious that they do not. The consequences instead are a less dynamic, boring combat system. A substantially reduced endgame population, and yet more change fatigue as those few players who stick around are forced, once again, to relearn a game they've been playing for years. The final consequence of all this...
It feels to me, and to many others, like we're losing our family. We've been playing this game for years, with many of the same people. To watch core teams disband, entire Discord communities of thousands of members turn into ghost towns, and friends go silent, is incredibly depressing. To those of us still playing in the endgame, there is so much less excitement in the air. Raids feel almost forced. And the discussion is more often focused on "when are we quitting" and "what are we doing next" than on any experiences we're having in game.
And yet, many of us love this game. And rather than quitting, we'd like to see it improve, thrive, and adapt to the collective desires of the teams at ZOS as well as, rather than in spite of, the dedicated player base who make this game what it is.
So; if the combat changes proposed in U35 have failed in their goal (and ZOS, you have admitted as much, stating that some fixes would have to wait until U36), and have instead driven away a large portion of the endgame community. If the changes are both detrimental to your end game, and either detrimental or entirely unnoticeable to your new and casual players...
...then why force them through? Postpone the U35 combat changes. In their current form, no one is benefitting from them. Release the new content as it's wonderful (the encounter team is on fire lately), but save the combat changes for the future. Wait for more feedback. Reconsider your goals and priorities when it comes to ESO combat. Communicate more effectively and more timely with your player base. And then try them again.
The game will not fall apart in the meantime. There is no good to come of rushing these changes through, and no harm in waiting. The game is in a perfectly playable, dare I say, very good patch in terms of accessibility (high damage = more accessible content) and enjoyment. There is no shame, only respect garnered, in holding off.
Thank you for your time.
63
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warich✭✭✭Please listen ZOS. The warden class in a dps role is doomed with the way things are going. Not to mention the forced magicka warden narrative by forcing players to use a destro staff to make winter's revenge do even passable damage. I'm all for the "play how you want" vision!! But this definitely isn't.10
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Vahndamme✭✭✭It's sad to read yet another post like this that will mostlikely be ignored anyways. Just like the many polls, petitions and other posts. Concrete feedback has been given but no sign of going back to the drawing board as a whole.9
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why force the changes through? Because time is money. Accounting (and management) won’t stand for three months worth of work and the wages paid thereon to have nothing to show for it.
It may look like busywork to us, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it’s going to get published…. virtually intact.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.2 -
Razorback174✭✭✭✭✭
They've only got themselves to blame when the ESO+ subscribers start cancelling on them once this drops.Why force the changes through? Because time is money. Accounting (and management) won’t stand for three months worth of work and the wages paid thereon to have nothing to show for it.
It may look like busywork to us, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it’s going to get published…. virtually intact.
They could learn a lot from Warner Brothers, who just cancelled that new Batgirl movie. They realized it was such a bomb from pre-screenings, and decided to eat the cost in the belief that they valued their own reputation (and the fans) more than what they spent on an already finished film.
"A little trust goes a long ways." Correct, and trust also goes BOTH ways. A concept ZOS seems utterly incapable of grasping.
I wonder how the rest of the playerbase will enjoy this pitiful excuse of an update. From the PTS alone, I've already unsubbed and started to migrate to greener pastures. It was a fun 8 years, but I think when you're constantly faced with incompetence like this, it's time to realize things just aren't going to get better here. No matter how hard you hope otherwise...22 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Razorback174 wrote: »
They've only got themselves to blame when the ESO+ subscribers start cancelling on them once this drops.Why force the changes through? Because time is money. Accounting (and management) won’t stand for three months worth of work and the wages paid thereon to have nothing to show for it.
It may look like busywork to us, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it’s going to get published…. virtually intact.
They could learn a lot from Warner Brothers, who just cancelled that new Batgirl movie. They realized it was such a bomb from pre-screenings, and decided to eat the cost in the belief that they valued their own reputation (and the fans) more than what they spent on an already finished film.
"A little trust goes a long ways." Correct, and trust also goes BOTH ways. A concept ZOS seems utterly incapable of grasping.
I wonder how the rest of the playerbase will enjoy this pitiful excuse of an update. From the PTS alone, I've already unsubbed and started to migrate to greener pastures. It was a fun 8 years, but I think when you're constantly faced with incompetence like this, it's time to realize things just aren't going to get better here. No matter how hard you hope otherwise...
Hard to trust a company that had been axing their playerbase's trust time and time again for sure. Really, I want to be excited about the patch but time and time again there are baffling changes and this patch takes the cake as the epitome.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel8 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh, we’re just knee jerking and deep ending it in their minds. I’m sure there will be some who play on oblivious (or turning a blind eye) to the changes. They’ll spend a few million on golding out new sets and making expensive potions that will get stripped every 15 seconds. They’ll stand still and get killed hoping the new Dark Cloak saves their lives. They’ll look for new guilds as the ones they’ve been in for years get disbanded. They’ll search for the promised accessibility changes, and try not to be too disappointed when they realize things are actually harder than they were before.
“But it’s my beloved Elder Scrolls,” they’ll say. And they’ll keep spending, and keep hoping things will get better someday. And they’ll still be here after everybody else has left and they power down the servers for the last time.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.14 -
I've had a lot of chats with guildmates lately. None of us can remember a time in the years we've played where a patch was just so poorly looked up. Other than stunts by some streamers burying their templars most folks have rolled with the punches--sometimes it's your main class, sometimes it's not.
I think what the OP has said is spot on. Whoever is making the decisions about this is clueless and simply out of touch with what the player-base actually wants. Refusing to listen is pushing players away. Who wants to feel like they have to relearn mechanics we've spent years trying to perfect? If anyone at zos has a clue they'd put a stop to this patch. ESO lore only has so much of a draw. The love of competition is an endgame draw for many. The players leaving are over the poor communication, non-responsiveness, and being talked down to by employees and their family.PC/NA14 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think we all need to be honest with ourselves that dealing with the ebb and flow of the ESO forums in a way that makes everyone happy is an impossible task.
Not long ago, we complained that devs listened too much to players, creating reactionary updates that didn't follow previously disclosed trajectories.
Now we're mad they aren't following every little whim and are pushing through on their year long plan to modernize the game (love it or hate it).
We used to hate that they even gave us a road map because it meant they had to diverge to deal with unforseen issues. Now we're mad they don't tell us a year in advance every little thing they have planned.
We tell them we want better performance. We get mad with the changes they make to reduce server calculations.
We tell them we want the skill gap closed but we get upset that we will do less damage.
There are too many of us and we all have wildly different opinions on what makes the game good and what needs to be adjusted. No matter what they do, a lot of people will be happy and a lot of people will be mad.
I know a lot of players on XB. My personal experience is every one of them is ready for this patch because the game right now is not in a good place. We don't know what this update will bring once it's live, but until the last few weeks I've never taken part in a Whitestrake/Midyear Mayhem where people had to force themselves to play for the AP rather than wanting to play for fun.Edited by DrSlaughtr on August 16, 2022 4:52AMI drink and I stream things.
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Rimskjegg✭✭✭
Did you play week 1PTS? Was there ANYbody who was happy about that? If not for the feedback, this patch would have been unplayable.Edited by Rimskjegg on August 16, 2022 5:46AM4 -
Rimskjegg✭✭✭As for there being "too many of us".... yeah, if that was the problem, this patch did indeed fix it...10
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HEIIMS✭✭✭Damage is already done imo. From completely nonsensical week 1 PTS to rushed "damage control" changes in following weeks reacting to feedback (a lot of reverts and subsequent changes were not them directly listening to our feedback but just attempts to cover-up poorly designed update with more "popular" changes). How can veteran players look a these past 5 weeks and still have faith? Even if a complete scrap/revert of PTS happens for U35, what's holding them back from doing it again in U36, U37, U38 etc.?
As it was said by the OP, the goal is not the problem, however, this is a very multilayered issue. There are ways of lowering the ceiling without affecting the floor, but the floor will still stay at the same place. Huge core combat changes need months of prep and testing. If they were actually working on U35 ideas since proposed heavy/light attack changes from last year then it is a sign of great incompetence. And this is why, for a lot of us, U35 was the last straw. Passionate players testing for hours and giving concise, well-worded paragraphs of feedback just getting a few reactionary blanked changes in return feels really bad.
The fact that we're getting less and less content each year adds to this as well, imo Elsweyr was the last good chapter with a lot of content for everyone. New class, new trial, new world event, cool new type of enemy. Greymoor had Mythics, and a reworked skill line. Blackwood had companions, but those are more of an additional type of content, not suited for everyone, while everything else just gets recycled. Dread sail reef has ZERO new character models. A trial content we get once each year, that is highly thematic is all reused/reskinned existing models. PvP players basically only get balance updates and sets, and nothing else. Card game is fine as an additional content, but not as main selling point of a year-long "adventure". Now combine this lack of content with a complete disaster of a huge balance patch with goals they're not prepared tackling and we are where we are. It's just plain sad.22 -
AlekWithK✭✭✭Damage is already done imo. From completely nonsensical week 1 PTS to rushed "damage control" changes in following weeks reacting to feedback (a lot of reverts and subsequent changes were not them directly listening to our feedback but just attempts to cover-up poorly designed update with more "popular" changes). How can veteran players look a these past 5 weeks and still have faith? Even if a complete scrap/revert of PTS happens for U35, what's holding them back from doing it again in U36, U37, U38 etc.?
As it was said by the OP, the goal is not the problem, however, this is a very multilayered issue. There are ways of lowering the ceiling without affecting the floor, but the floor will still stay at the same place. Huge core combat changes need months of prep and testing. If they were actually working on U35 ideas since proposed heavy/light attack changes from last year then it is a sign of great incompetence. And this is why, for a lot of us, U35 was the last straw. Passionate players testing for hours and giving concise, well-worded paragraphs of feedback just getting a few reactionary blanked changes in return feels really bad.
The fact that we're getting less and less content each year adds to this as well, imo Elsweyr was the last good chapter with a lot of content for everyone. New class, new trial, new world event, cool new type of enemy. Greymoor had Mythics, and a reworked skill line. Blackwood had companions, but those are more of an additional type of content, not suited for everyone, while everything else just gets recycled. Dread sail reef has ZERO new character models. A trial content we get once each year, that is highly thematic is all reused/reskinned existing models. PvP players basically only get balance updates and sets, and nothing else. Card game is fine as an additional content, but not as main selling point of a year-long "adventure". Now combine this lack of content with a complete disaster of a huge balance patch with goals they're not prepared tackling and we are where we are. It's just plain sad.
This is unfortunately true. Of the many people who have already quit (not just threatened, but actually quit), many of them wont come back regardless of whether ZOS reverts/cancels these changes or not.19 -
Enundr✭✭✭Why force the changes through? Because time is money. Accounting (and management) won’t stand for three months worth of work and the wages paid thereon to have nothing to show for it.
It may look like busywork to us, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it’s going to get published…. virtually intact.
well theyll see a loss of active players , loss of eso+ subs , ppl not buying next expansion , etc.....even from a business perspective itll be a loss / waste of time / $ either way , but the question is which one do they find more of a waste ? the short term one (the update) or the longterm one (putting the update out and losing players over it as well as getting some REALLY BAD PR for it). business sense would say to cut the combat changes to save face.....even microsoft grasped this when they got the negative feedback on the price hike for xbox live sub cost.4 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭They have paid these people already. It is senseless to then lose money by forcing through a bad patch that will actively lose players.
They can think of this as a learning experience and stop balancing via spreadsheet and running on a set schedule for changes so things have to be pushed live due to time constraints.
Adjustments to combat changes should take as long as they take to get right. Do it once, then minor adjustments from that point out. These massively swinging and often contradicting changes every 3 months is just bad, bad planning, testing and execution.17 -
Arjuna1696✭✭✭They have paid these people already. It is senseless to then lose money by forcing through a bad patch that will actively lose players.
They can think of this as a learning experience and stop balancing via spreadsheet and running on a set schedule for changes so things have to be pushed live due to time constraints.
Adjustments to combat changes should take as long as they take to get right. Do it once, then minor adjustments from that point out. These massively swinging and often contradicting changes every 3 months is just bad, bad planning, testing and execution.
This. Please take this patch back to the drawing board, ZoS.
Arjúna | Wood Elf Stamina Warden | of the Undying Song | Flawless Conquerer
Tangles-Up-In-Blue | Argonian Magicka Warden | Spirit Slayer | Flawless Conquerer
Marcełine | Dark Elf Magicka Nightblade | Spirit Slayer | Flawless Conquerer
Nausîcaä | Breton Magicka Templar | Spirit Slayer | Flawless Conquerer6 -
Zastrix✭✭✭✭While it would be cool for them to cancel the changes they won't do so because they're too prideful to actually listen to the community which plays their game as they have a clear vision, which is killing the game to buy another skyrim or just play another game.110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.13 -
Zastrix✭✭✭✭Did you play week 1PTS? Was there ANYbody who was happy about that? If not for the feedback, this patch would have been unplayable.
Heh you're making it sound like this is playable. It's still bad. It's like comparing eating fully rotten or just a bit rotten trash when you're used to having a normal buffet.110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.5 -
duckdown✭✭✭Crystal wep on bow sorc (charged trait+ savage werewolf) 1 button to kill everything + major heroism oakensoul + DK with heavy attack fire staff..
Those r cancering the game those need to get adjusted instead they change the entire combat system even change some of the animation which is complete garbage nobody wanted those.
With all these complain about update 35 i think they need to listen to the community.2 -
lonnml✭✭✭know what this update will bring once it's live, but until the last few weeks I've never taken part in a Whitestrake/Midyear Mayhem where people had to force themselves to play for the AP rather than wanting to play for fun.
PVP gets ONE event a year and PVE players will still complain about being “forced” to do it.7 -
Everaen✭✭✭On one hand, the more ZoS caves to forum and YouTuber outrage, the more that can encourage a "mob" mentality toward any changes to the future -- i.e. "if we fuss enough and bandwagon enough, we can get ZoS to do anything." That's why these companies don't immediately change course due to online anger.
Anyone whose ever dealt in customer service can probably tell you, like it or not, the most angrily vocal in the community are usually the ones that are most quick to complain about anything and they are often a small % of overall base -- while a big majority of indifferently silent customers will just keep paying their monthly bill without comment or notice, seemingly content with what they are given. The most vocal rarely represent the majority sentiment.
On the other hand, objectively, I don't see much with this patch for anyone to get excited about or look forward to.
Really, only a few things should factor into changes that go into the game:
Do these changes:- A. Add fun to the game? (Subjective, and hardest to satisfy everyone, but probably the most important. Players will put up with crappy performance to some extent or bad balancing if repeatable gameplay is consistently fun.)
- B. Improve performance? (Objective)
- C. Balance extreme outliers in DPS, healing, survivability, etc? (Mix of subjective and objective, opinions will differ with bias)
I can only think of 1 or 2 things in the entire patch notes that I personally consumed favorably - meaning, I thought it was a fun change that I would like to play with.
The rest... not so much. Most of it more or less reads like "we're going to make your character weaker in almost every way. You're welcome!"
Do you think ZoS believes players will have more fun with U35 changes than they do on Live currently? Or do you think they consider these changes necessary evils for server performance, lowering damage, etc?
If these changes are more of a necessary evil type of thing, I think they should have added a few more spoons full of sugar to make the medicine go down. There's just not enough redeeming about U35 to make it seem anything other than a loss.6 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭How can veteran players look a these past 5 weeks and still have faith? Even if a complete scrap/revert of PTS happens for U35, what's holding them back from doing it again in U36, U37, U38 etc.?
That is where I am at. This whole u35 mess is what broke the camel's back. Sub is long gone, game deleted, disc tossed in box of old dvds and vhs. Still find myself lurking here though. Habit? Last shred of false hope? Wanting to watch as it all collapses? I don't know. Maybe all of the above.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.15 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Damage is already done imo. From completely nonsensical week 1 PTS to rushed "damage control" changes in following weeks reacting to feedback (a lot of reverts and subsequent changes were not them directly listening to our feedback but just attempts to cover-up poorly designed update with more "popular" changes). How can veteran players look a these past 5 weeks and still have faith? Even if a complete scrap/revert of PTS happens for U35, what's holding them back from doing it again in U36, U37, U38 etc.?
As it was said by the OP, the goal is not the problem, however, this is a very multilayered issue. There are ways of lowering the ceiling without affecting the floor, but the floor will still stay at the same place. Huge core combat changes need months of prep and testing. If they were actually working on U35 ideas since proposed heavy/light attack changes from last year then it is a sign of great incompetence. And this is why, for a lot of us, U35 was the last straw. Passionate players testing for hours and giving concise, well-worded paragraphs of feedback just getting a few reactionary blanked changes in return feels really bad.
The fact that we're getting less and less content each year adds to this as well, imo Elsweyr was the last good chapter with a lot of content for everyone. New class, new trial, new world event, cool new type of enemy. Greymoor had Mythics, and a reworked skill line. Blackwood had companions, but those are more of an additional type of content, not suited for everyone, while everything else just gets recycled. Dread sail reef has ZERO new character models. A trial content we get once each year, that is highly thematic is all reused/reskinned existing models. PvP players basically only get balance updates and sets, and nothing else. Card game is fine as an additional content, but not as main selling point of a year-long "adventure". Now combine this lack of content with a complete disaster of a huge balance patch with goals they're not prepared tackling and we are where we are. It's just plain sad.
i think U36-37 is likely going to be more dmg control on this when it hits live, if they keep at their current predictability, U38 will be the next chapter release so im assuming they would A) have to come up with something REALLY good for that chapter and B ) will likely have reverted 85% of the nerfs in this chapter before then lol3 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭know what this update will bring once it's live, but until the last few weeks I've never taken part in a Whitestrake/Midyear Mayhem where people had to force themselves to play for the AP rather than wanting to play for fun.
PVP gets ONE event a year and PVE players will still complain about being “forced” to do it.
While that is true, I was talking about pvpers. The High Isle update has caused a lot of toxicity and absurd behavior.
Unless of course you like 30k heavies and perma corrosive DKs.I drink and I stream things.
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qcell✭✭✭I share the sentiment and the sadness of seeing communities empty and players quit. But don't have hopes in being heard, Alek.
My group and I are exclusively playing Dreadsail HM and U35 is the biggest setback in the history of raid progression - going from reset-on-death to inability to clear the trial.
As some of the people that already fully left before U35 hit live said: "why worry? There are other games. Just install [snip].". It's hard to accept but I think they're right. Either stay and suffer, or leave and find fun elsewhere. Can you think of more than 5 online games that survived 10+ years?19 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Damage is already done imo. From completely nonsensical week 1 PTS to rushed "damage control" changes in following weeks reacting to feedback (a lot of reverts and subsequent changes were not them directly listening to our feedback but just attempts to cover-up poorly designed update with more "popular" changes). How can veteran players look a these past 5 weeks and still have faith? Even if a complete scrap/revert of PTS happens for U35, what's holding them back from doing it again in U36, U37, U38 etc.?
As it was said by the OP, the goal is not the problem, however, this is a very multilayered issue. There are ways of lowering the ceiling without affecting the floor, but the floor will still stay at the same place. Huge core combat changes need months of prep and testing. If they were actually working on U35 ideas since proposed heavy/light attack changes from last year then it is a sign of great incompetence. And this is why, for a lot of us, U35 was the last straw. Passionate players testing for hours and giving concise, well-worded paragraphs of feedback just getting a few reactionary blanked changes in return feels really bad.
The fact that we're getting less and less content each year adds to this as well, imo Elsweyr was the last good chapter with a lot of content for everyone. New class, new trial, new world event, cool new type of enemy. Greymoor had Mythics, and a reworked skill line. Blackwood had companions, but those are more of an additional type of content, not suited for everyone, while everything else just gets recycled. Dread sail reef has ZERO new character models. A trial content we get once each year, that is highly thematic is all reused/reskinned existing models. PvP players basically only get balance updates and sets, and nothing else. Card game is fine as an additional content, but not as main selling point of a year-long "adventure". Now combine this lack of content with a complete disaster of a huge balance patch with goals they're not prepared tackling and we are where we are. It's just plain sad.
i think U36-37 is likely going to be more dmg control on this when it hits live, if they keep at their current predictability, U38 will be the next chapter release so im assuming they would A) have to come up with something REALLY good for that chapter and B ) will likely have reverted 85% of the nerfs in this chapter before then lol
I agree that this is the likely scenario but competent businessmen seek to prevent damage from bad decisions before they are enacted, not do maximum damage to their brand and attempt to mitigate it later. There will be long term damage from update 35 even if ZoS decides not to release the combat changes, but pushing forward and releasing the combat changed will result in much more harm to the community and game in the long term.
Has the microsoft acquisition been completed yet?4 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »Damage is already done imo. From completely nonsensical week 1 PTS to rushed "damage control" changes in following weeks reacting to feedback (a lot of reverts and subsequent changes were not them directly listening to our feedback but just attempts to cover-up poorly designed update with more "popular" changes). How can veteran players look a these past 5 weeks and still have faith? Even if a complete scrap/revert of PTS happens for U35, what's holding them back from doing it again in U36, U37, U38 etc.?
As it was said by the OP, the goal is not the problem, however, this is a very multilayered issue. There are ways of lowering the ceiling without affecting the floor, but the floor will still stay at the same place. Huge core combat changes need months of prep and testing. If they were actually working on U35 ideas since proposed heavy/light attack changes from last year then it is a sign of great incompetence. And this is why, for a lot of us, U35 was the last straw. Passionate players testing for hours and giving concise, well-worded paragraphs of feedback just getting a few reactionary blanked changes in return feels really bad.
The fact that we're getting less and less content each year adds to this as well, imo Elsweyr was the last good chapter with a lot of content for everyone. New class, new trial, new world event, cool new type of enemy. Greymoor had Mythics, and a reworked skill line. Blackwood had companions, but those are more of an additional type of content, not suited for everyone, while everything else just gets recycled. Dread sail reef has ZERO new character models. A trial content we get once each year, that is highly thematic is all reused/reskinned existing models. PvP players basically only get balance updates and sets, and nothing else. Card game is fine as an additional content, but not as main selling point of a year-long "adventure". Now combine this lack of content with a complete disaster of a huge balance patch with goals they're not prepared tackling and we are where we are. It's just plain sad.
i think U36-37 is likely going to be more dmg control on this when it hits live, if they keep at their current predictability, U38 will be the next chapter release so im assuming they would A) have to come up with something REALLY good for that chapter and B ) will likely have reverted 85% of the nerfs in this chapter before then lol
I agree that this is the likely scenario but competent businessmen seek to prevent damage from bad decisions before they are enacted, not do maximum damage to their brand and attempt to mitigate it later. There will be long term damage from update 35 even if ZoS decides not to release the combat changes, but pushing forward and releasing the combat changed will result in much more harm to the community and game in the long term.
Has the microsoft acquisition been completed yet?
pretty sure the microsoft thing happened a couple years ago now, but they have been mostly hands off and letting zos be zos (or are the ones requiring for the tight development schedule)
so they are either doing nothing, or the cause of the tight development which causes zos to do stuff like this instead of you know, fixing bugs and other longstanding issues in the game
speaking of i wonder where they are with that game rearchitecture, which while it was intended to help pvp should help clean up a lot of things in pve hopefully too lol1 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »
Has the microsoft acquisition been completed yet?
March 9, 2021:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2021/03/09/officially-welcoming-bethesda-to-the-xbox-family/
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/09/microsoft-closes-bethesda-acquisition-aiming-to-take-on-sony.html
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ZOS_SuserialadminGreetings all,
Please keep post to the original subject of the thread, this helps keep things from derailing and causing the thread to be closed.
Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
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Pretty sure trying to figure out what devs may be thinking or likely not thinking about makes it relevant on some level to whether the company who most recently purchased them has had an influence. We're all in awe of the ridiculousness of this patch and trying to wrap our heads around itEdited by 85flyingbrick_ESO on August 17, 2022 8:08PMPC/NA8