I am a PvP'er. I am not very good at it, but i like it all the same.

This said I think there should be a PvE only map of Cryodiil and IC for those that only PvE. It seems immensely unfair to force those players who (for whatever reason) don't like pvp to do so in the effort of collecting Event tickets. What's the harm. After all... its their game too.

One condition: It needs to be dedicated maps. The existing PvP maps are crowed enough without adding PvE adventurers to them.

VaranisArano wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

I am a PvP'er. I am not very good at it, but i like it all the same.

This said I think there should be a PvE only map of Cryodiil and IC for those that only PvE. It seems immensely unfair to force those players who (for whatever reason) don't like pvp to do so in the effort of collecting Event tickets. What's the harm. After all... its their game too.

One condition: It needs to be dedicated maps. The existing PvP maps are crowed enough without adding PvE adventurers to them.

Sounds like another way of saying that it's unfair that there's a biannual PVP event that celebrates all forms of PVP, and where ZOS explicitly says all the ticket activities are PVP activities.

That's twice a year (three times if we count the 1 ticket in IC from the Year One Celebration) where PVE-only players are reminded that PVP exists in ESO, and apparently, that's just too much. "It's their game too!"

It is their game. That doesn't mean it's unfair that every single event ever is doesn't cater to their specifically PVE-only tastes.

unfair this, unfair that, it's the pve players that are keeping the game alive with their wallet not the "only" pvp ones.

I don't see what's so bad about making a dead game mode more accessible so it actually gets played (outside events).

VaranisArano wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I don't see what's so bad about making a dead game mode more accessible so it actually gets played (outside events).

And I don't see what's the point of gutting Imperial City's gameplay to appeal to a bunch of players who really only want an easier shot at the same rewards. I mean, most of these players do queue up for Imperial City during events. They will go there when sufficiently bribed with event tickets, leads, helms, Tel Var, skyshards, fish, and whatever other item they want. Remember when ZOS stuck Malacath's band lead in IC? I remember the complaints from PVE players...who went and got it anyway.

Complaining about it bitterly the whole time, but they do willingly queue up for the place.

I'd have a lot more respect for the argument if they were asking for a PVE-only version with its own unique rewards, rather than as a "I don't like PVP, so can ZOS please gut this zones PvPvE gameplay, so I can get what I want easier?"


(If we want to talk real accessibility, how about ZOS giving us a Below 50 Campaign for Imperial City so low level players don't have to square off vs CP 160 gear?)

We are realistic, we know z would never bother reworking rewards systems for a dead game mode, they barely ever do for other content. so we just asked for less telvar and a new queue,

Gameplay wouldnt be gutted , unless someone has pleasure murdering players that don't pvp.

francesinhalover wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I don't see what's so bad about making a dead game mode more accessible so it actually gets played (outside events).

And I don't see what's the point of gutting Imperial City's gameplay to appeal to a bunch of players who really only want an easier shot at the same rewards. I mean, most of these players do queue up for Imperial City during events. They will go there when sufficiently bribed with event tickets, leads, helms, Tel Var, skyshards, fish, and whatever other item they want. Remember when ZOS stuck Malacath's band lead in IC? I remember the complaints from PVE players...who went and got it anyway.

Complaining about it bitterly the whole time, but they do willingly queue up for the place.

I'd have a lot more respect for the argument if they were asking for a PVE-only version with its own unique rewards, rather than as a "I don't like PVP, so can ZOS please gut this zones PvPvE gameplay, so I can get what I want easier?"


(If we want to talk real accessibility, how about ZOS giving us a Below 50 Campaign for Imperial City so low level players don't have to square off vs CP 160 gear?)

We are realistic, we know z would never bother reworking rewards systems for a dead game mode, they barely ever do for other content. so we just asked for less telvar and a new queue,

Gameplay wouldnt be gutted , unless someone has pleasure murdering players that don't pvp.

To be really realistic, I'd say it's unlikely that ZOS is going to change a free DLC zone that attracts PVE players three times a year for event tickets and other rewards.

Maybe if you all boycotted the zone en masse during events, you'd have a point. But you all don't, so it's obvious that people just want a safer, easier method to get rewards.


And yes, you'd be gutting the whole PVP component from the zone. That's the whole point of a PVE-only version. Players who don't like the intended risk of PVP gameplay want it gutted, and want the rewards anyways.

To quote ZOS from the Launch details:
"The dangers of Imperial City and the Sewers below are best suited for small groups of adventurers, but highly skilled warriors have been known to strike out on their own. While exploring and fighting your way through the Imperial City, be prepared to face not only Molag Bal's forces, but also enemy players from the opposing alliances. Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets. But be on your guard—enemy Alliance members lurk around every corner throughout the Imperial Districts and Sewers. Should you fall to an enemy player, they can claim your hard-earned Tel Var Stones in their own quest for glory."

That's pretty much the PVE-only ideal, which only goes to show how far it is from the Devs' design.

"Oh, but you can just queue up for the PvPvE campaign if you want that! All the PvPers will do that and it'll be fine, right?"

Uh huh. Pull the other one. I remember when the Random Daily Dungeon rewards were bugged and even the really good PVEers were running the Daily Fungal Grotto 1 for easy rewards. Predictably, anyone who was trying to farm the harder dungeons was harmed as players jumped ship for the easiest option that offered the same rewards. If ZOS offers an easy route to the rewards of Imperial City, it is going to gut the gameplay in the PvPvE campaign because there's no reason to accept the risk once there's an easier version with the same rewards.

Not only would PVPers take the easy route to rewards, there's a lot of "PVEers" who are actually willing to casually queue up for Imperial City when they are sufficiently bribed with rewards who wouldn't do that anymore. That's a significant loss - not necessarily in terms of less targets, but primarily in terms of players like me who first went to PVP zones for rewards that I wanted. Had I been given an easy, PVE-only option, I probably would have never tried PVP. That's not ideal for ZOS either, because they do have a vested interest in encouraging players to try ALL of their game especially when they balance PVE and PVP together.


Despite what you think, I'm not really in Imperial City to kill other players. In fact, I'm pretty upfront in my guides to the zone that I quest there on a fragile speedster PVE farming build. I'm way more likely to die questing or fishing to enemies than I am to kill other players. Would a PVE-only version make that easier for me? Yeah. Would I be playing as the zone was designed and intended? Heck no. The risk of PVP happening to me while I fish, quest,, and hunt for other rewards is exactly what's designed and intended.

That's why I've stated that I would be okay with a PVE-only safe version, IF it's a completely unique zone with its own rewards rather than a "gimme" for playing a much easier version of the zone.

So I'm getting a bit tired of being told I'm only out to murder poor innocent PVEers (who willingly queue up for a PvPvE zone, natch.)

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

And I don't see what's the point of gutting Imperial City's gameplay to appeal to a bunch of players who really only want an easier shot at the same rewards.

It's a dead empty game mode 99% of the year. There's nothing to gut, and whatever experience of PvPing in IC would be unchanged by adding a separate PvE instance. The rewards are only worth so much gold because so few people are even playing IC let, alone farming it. Any PvE instance would obviously have much lower telvar potential, but it would only be good for PvP overall if things like Hakeijo dropped in price and were more accessible to new PvPers.

If it were true that there's nothing to gut, we wouldn't get complaints from PVEers every single time ZOS puts something in Imperial City. They are still willing to queue up to get it, just complain bitterly that they have to.

See my point about Malacath's band. Funny how even during a non-event time, people still think there's too much PVP gameplay and they want it gone so they have an easier shot at the reward they want.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

See my point about Malacath's band. Funny how even during a non-event time, people still think there's too much PVP gameplay and they want it gone so they have an easier shot at the reward they want.

I have zero issue with inexperienced PvPers having an easier way to obtain gear that helps them become competitive. I would also expect that drop rates would be much lower in the PvE instance.

I'd like to get some perfected gear and monster helms from story-mode dungeons and trials too. Give it a low drop rate. It'll be fine. After all, shan't we think of the inexperienced PVEers?

/s

To be honest, we're not going to convince each other to budge. You're willing to remove PVP to get easier rewards. I'm not.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

To be honest, we're not going to convince each other to budge. You're willing to remove PVP to get easier rewards. I'm not.

Removing PvP is already the best way to farm IC rewards. Ideally you bring a group there when it's most dead, kill bosses with a full district control multiplier, and repeatedly zerg down any enemies until they quit, because your rewards come from PvE, not fighting players, which is a "waste of time" from a farming standpoint. I don't need the rewards myself, I've already farmed what I wanted, I hope you at least agree that IC is suffering and needs a lot of help from the devs to revive it.

I've already said I'd take a PVE-only version with completely unique rewards.

As for the suffering of the actual Imperial City, I think there's some things ZOS could do encourage PVP and bolster the experience farmers and questers - like removing the District control requirements for respawning, make it easier to pick up the daily quests from the sewers, and incentivize gankers to carry Tel Var so the players who beat them actually get rewarded. I've talked about these on past threads when the topic comes up.

Do I expect ZOS to do any of our collective changes when Imperial City's current state is still sufficient to draw in plenty of players three times a year for event rewards?

Not really.

Especially not when we haven't yet discussed the monetization of PVP avoidance. Every time someone buys an event ticket or buys the IC skyshards to avoid going to Imperial City, ZOS makes a little profit.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I don't think it should be PvE necessarily but they do need to make some new pvp objective that encourages people to pvp in that area and ditch the Tel-Var loss imo. If they did that then more people would join same as Cyro.

This is the best idea IMO.

PvP objectives - NOT REWARDS. For some reason the devs think that bribing players by putting unique drops in IC is the way to get a healthy population. Sure you may get a momentary spike for an event or right after a patch where people farm, but there is a reason it dies right out as soon as people get what they need. If you have to bribe players to play your content and thats the only time they do - you are designing something wrong. And frankly, adding in drops like monster sets and antiquities just encourages more group farming b/c then they don't even have to worry about losing rewards like less AP or Tel-Var for having too many players since that's not what they are after (as if that really discouraged it as is).

But more than anything else, they need to drop the tel-var loss at this point. (Though I'd also drop the Telvar multiplier if I was doing this). When I go to IC anymore and it's not dead, it's because there is either a NB ganker jumping people they come across and running away if they fail and then constantly coming back and running until they get lucky, essentially harassing players. Or there is a small (or large) group just dominating the map and will wipe any randoms they come across. Personally, I'd go more if it was like PvP where I didn't lose everything I worked to gain just b/c I got ganged up on or sucker punched. And the only players I've met that like the way it is now are the ones taking advantage of it. How many of us have truly lost TV to an even fight? Not because of skill level, just because it barely happens. I think I can count on one hand the number of times a solo (not NB) has ever even attacked me since IC launched.

The fact they encourage players to harass other players or gang up on them by rewarding that behavior is just bad design on top of other bad design. (Not to mention most players going out to hunt others dump their TV so even if you win a fight, you end up with little reward yourself - so the system really only rewards those that exploit it).

As it stands, if I have a couple hours to play the game, why would I do content where I could lose much of my progress by what is essentially cheese 90% of the time it happens to you? It's just not worth the trouble and the dead population pretty much proves it.

There is so muhc PvE already in the game and new zones get added yearly. PvP has not received any real content updates apart from Battlegrounds. Leave IC as is. I personally love PvPvE zones and since there are only two in all of ESO I suggest leaving them as is.

I slogged it out and actually completed the Imperial City questline a few years ago, and I have to say that short as it is, it's one of the better ones in the game. The character of the Drake of Blades was really engaging and no spoilers but what happens to her is a fascinating story.

All of which is to say that it's a shame that 90% of the people who play this game won't get to experience the end of that story. The devs even demonstrate that they knew it'd be problematic to mix pvp and pve in the same zone by making the last few scenes happen in their own pve instance and free from the annoyances of pvp.

Telvar? Meh. Can't do much with it anymore. Even if you could - half a player's telvar? Really? It's not worth it.

IC started as a toxic mess - you used to have to ride through Cyrodiil to even get in, and if you somehiw made it to the gate, there were gankers camping the entrances so that youd have to respawn at a keep your alliance held and try again JUST TO GET IN. And if your alliance didn’t hold a keep within miles of the entrance (like when an opposing faction had emp) too bad for you. No coincidence IC is set in a sewer.

I agree that there should be no achievements or awards that players in the pvp IC get, and maybe if it's only PVE, beef up the npcs and bosses a bit, but I don't see anything wrong with making a pve only instance. It might make more people play the story line - and might even bring people into the pvp version if for no other reason than to see the difference.

francesinhalover wrote: »

Z imperial city would be amazing if adding a Pve only mode Queue was possible.
To balance things out telvar gain could be reduced by 50% - 75% (the few comments seem to want telvar fully disabled).
You can still capture flags (for xp?) but they reset every 1 - 2 minutes.



That way PvP players that want to have fun destroying other players with no effort can actually fight other players that are more prepared for the pvp environment and accept the consequences.

Theres a insane ammount of players that will never fully finish esos story because of imperial city.

All imperial city is for years now is bully and insta kill other players.


This post wont change anything i know it. But to all pve players that hate pvp. I understand your pain friends!

If you are from PC/NA invite me and I will protect you when you are doing your quests. I try the most that I can help pvers in pvp environment.

Personally I HATE PvP…

But honestly I don’t care [snip] about the event stuff…I just want the trophies and such and then get out of there again xD but getting killed a few times in a few minutes I had to just stop trying ^^’ might give it a shot later when I’m higher CP and maybe be able to defend myself but would be nice to just have a no PvP zone just for questing… no events and no Tel Var at all that’s fine with me… that’s fair enough that would be reserved for PvP zones…

Oh well might try to join some group to help out each other when I’m done with everything else and that might take years anyway so I’m patient

[edited for profanity bypass]