Should all gear in the game be craftable?

Gracous · September 2019

For those who aren't able to do trials and arenas, should all gear be craftable?

Royaji · September 2019

You don't do the content, you don't get the rewards. It's a fairly simple concept.

NolaArch · September 2019

Royalthought · September 2019

Tbh, if it were Id never do pve content again. There would have to be some life changing story writing.

That would devalue new pve content which would lower sales. Although it would be a good thing for me it would be bad for the game.

Banana · September 2019

Looking for perfected false gods devotion crafter

buttaface · September 2019

No, but the gap between crafted gear and other gear is too wide for the most part. There are a -few- good crafted sets and -many- that need tweaking/light buffs. Same with many overland and PvP sets. Not massive buffs, just some tweaks and bumps, and far more sets would see far more general use. They seem to be doing this, but too slowly, because we are talking minor database changes for the most part.

But as far as having the top end trial gear craftable, in an EQ/WOW style progression treadmill game like ESO, part of what keeps players involved is striving for the next tier to do the next stuff. If players knew they could just wait a bit and craft it, it busts up the whole model/incentive.

SoLooney · September 2019

Absolutely not

You're taking away the farming for the correct trait and the actual gear itself

If you want the gear, plenty of guilds can sell you runs to get the gear

Trial gear is hard to get, and let's have it stay that way

buttaface wrote: »

No, but the gap between crafted gear and other gear is too wide for the most part. There are a -few- good crafted sets and -many- that need tweaking/light buffs. Same with many overland and PvP sets. Not massive buffs, just some tweaks and bumps, and far more sets would see far more general use. They seem to be doing this, but too slowly, because we are talking minor database changes for the most part.

But as far as having the top end trial gear craftable, in an EQ/WOW style progression treadmill game like ESO, part of what keeps players involved is striving for the next tier to do the next stuff. If players knew they could just wait a bit and craft it, it busts up the whole model/incentive.

There should be a wide gap between crafted and trial gear. Anyone can make crafted gear, doesnt take half a brain to research traits and go craft whatever weapon or armor or jewelry piece you need in the perfect trait or u can pay someone to do it for you

You can run trials on normal and get the gear you want. If you want perfected gear either pay or progress with a team, pretty simple

This game doesnt need to be anymore casual friendly. If that isnt your suit, then you have options for other mmos

Emma_Overload · September 2019

Royalthought wrote: »

Tbh, if it were Id never do pve content again. There would have to be some life changing story writing.

That would devalue new pve content which would lower sales. Although it would be a good thing for me it would be bad for the game.

It would make crafting more valuable though. Remember that there are crafting skill boost tokens for sale in the Crown Store. I've bought many of them myself, and they are not cheap.

Tommy_The_Gun · September 2019

I would like to see some sort of token system. So I dont have to suffer from RNG. It takes ages to get a weapon from a dungeon set because of rng...

How would that work ? Well you could convert gear to different sets from a specific dungeon. You got a sword from a Magicka set ? No problem. Just convert it to Stamina set that drops in this dungeon. Also I would imagine it would have to cost "something". Some currency. Either transmute crystals or gold.

As for the trials & arenas... I understand that it may be a problem for ppl who just want to farm gear, and are not really into end-game that much. A lot of trial / arena sets are very usefull outside of group content.
Best way would be simply to add group finder support for those. And tbh. this is beyond weird. Why it is still not in a game... after 5+ years ?! I mean it is so obvious trials and arenas should have group finder support, but for whatever reason they dont lol. Trials, sure 12 man content, would require new coding... But wait, arenas are 4 man... why those are not suported by a group finder that forms 4 MAN GROUP ?! And dont tell me server will die if they do so, I mean how many arenas we have ? 1...2... Yep we have TWO group arenas.... So that is basically like one new dungeon DLC... Speking of which... One can use group finder to do veteran dlc dungeons. Arguably very difficult content, so difficulty is not a reson why trials & arenas are not supported by group finder. Who knows maybe, one day we will have this feature in eso... One can only hope.

Sorry for accidental rant & long post.

Squidgaurd · September 2019

No but they should introduce engame ability boosting gear rewards into pvp like the arena weapons but dofferent with their own unique effects these would be for pvp since pvE'rs like to blame pvpers for whatever on the forums.

Xedwyn · September 2019

The effort-reward model in place in most games - granted it is decently flawed in ESO - makes total sense for most people, and it would be a shame to give players who do not put the effort in to improve, organize in groups and complete hard content access to the best gear.

my 2¢

mague · September 2019

Gracous wrote: »

For those who aren't able to do trials and arenas, should all gear be craftable?

Yes, but for ESO it is to late. A game requires a basic design for such.

The days of elitist itemization and farming are over. ESO did a step forward. But the next step is equal for all with slots where a raid loots a big gem/glyph/proc rune and a solo player loots a small gem/glyph/proc rune and is able to combine multiple of them into a bigger one.

redlink1979 · September 2019

No. If you want the rewards, do the content.

The_Saint · September 2019

Gracous wrote: »

For those who aren't able to do trials and arenas, should all gear be craftable?

why you need it when you dont do this things?

Lumsdenml · September 2019

The top tier gear should be trails only, but I feel that craftable gear should be equal to dungeon gear, not below overland sets like it is now (for 90% of the sets, anyway). Let's not devalue the work and time put in by the crafter to get 9 traits across the board by making what you can craft worthless.

Gariele · September 2019

If you’re not able to do the content you shouldn’t have access to it. But saying that there are paid runs that a group will drag you through for a fee

buttaface · September 2019

SoLooney wrote: »

There should be a wide gap between crafted and trial gear.

I disagree. There should be just enough of a gap to keep players interested in having the best gear doing trials, not more than that.

SoLooney wrote: »

Anyone can make crafted gear, doesnt take half a brain to research traits and go craft whatever weapon or armor or jewelry piece you need in the perfect trait or u can pay someone to do it for you

Wrong because nothing in this game takes more than "half a brain" to do compared to anything real, and that includes trials or whatever other content. MMOs are easy, casual entertainment. They are towards the bottom of video game difficulty generally, and this one is no different, especially due to having no parkour or true aim involved. And it does take quite a lot of playing the game to craft high trait gear.

Already agreed that trial gear shouldn't be craftable in the earlier post, but let's not pretend this game is something it isn't and that the top end trial gear is some special hoopty doo or reward for any meaningful skill.

Turelus · September 2019

I personally would love to have a more sandbox system where no set gear drops and everything has to be learned and crafted by players.

It would make materials and crafting relevant again.

idk · September 2019

With MMORPGs of this style it is comment to have a driving force to lure player to the more challenging content. In part it is in the best interest on the business side as it gets more players doing different content. So I doubt Zos would entertain the idea of all gear being craftable by any design or means.

ZOS_Ragnar · September 2019

We have removed several posts from this thread that were disruptive and did not add value to the discussion. Please ensure you keep your posts civil and constructive.

Bodži · September 2019

Can someone post a 6m dummy parse with trial and non trial gear so we can see a difference for DPS?

katanagirl1 · September 2019

Lumsdenml wrote: »

The top tier gear should be trails only, but I feel that craftable gear should be equal to dungeon gear, not below overland sets like it is now (for 90% of the sets, anyway). Let's not devalue the work and time put in by the crafter to get 9 traits across the board by making what you can craft worthless.

Well said, I totally agree!

The only sets I craft regularly are Hundings Rage and Night Mother’s Gaze for my stamina characters.

There are probably only a handful of others that are used by others as well - Juliano’s, Eyes of Mara, can’t even think of any more, to prove my point.

I don’t think they should be as good as trials gear, but maybe more craftable sets that people can actually use that are worth it. I don’t think they will ever be as good as group dungeon gear, though. They want us farming those dungeons.

You can spend several hours farming bosses for gear and still not get any pieces with the right trait. You can spend weeks and still not get them all. Sure, you can transmute, but 250 transmute gems for five pieces takes a while to obtain. It’s just so nice to craft all divines or all impen and just be done with it!

Starlock · September 2019

Gracous wrote: »

For those who aren't able to do trials and arenas, should all gear be craftable?

While I don't follow the same reasoning that led to the conclusion as you did, I agree with the conclusion (for the most part).

I understand that gamble mechanics are a staple of MMOs, but those mechanics come at the expense of the RPG end. Some amount of randomization makes sense in an RPG (as a game master I've definitely used randomized loot tables where appropriate to take some of the workload off my shoulders), but a game like this takes it to a level that detracts from realism and restricts player creativity. There's no logical reason why crafters can't craft any set or item in the game - whether it's a player crafter or an NPC crafter. Frankly, i'd take it further - there's no logical reason why crafters couldn't craft any sort of customized gear set imaginable with flexible modifiers and set bonuses. If ESO had a really good crafting system, it'd be like that.

Instead of all these sets dropping through unrealistic RNG mechanics, all sets would be created through crafting. The crafter - whether a player or an NPC - could fully customize what the set bonuses are based on certain rules and limitations. The equivalent of 5-pc set bonuses (or special bonuses from things like arena weapons) would require adventuring to get a component to craft it. This mechanic would replace the silly RNG that is currently present but still maintain an incentive to run content like dungeons, arenas, and trials. You would have to adventure in that specific area to get components for specific set bonuses (which would be fully tradeable with other players). On the whole, it would look a lot like a "token system" others have suggested only integrated with PC/NPC crafting services for realism.

We won't see a system like that, sadly. Maybe in ESO 2, though.

Gracous · September 2019

It would be nice to have a crafting system where people could do crafting only and still make good amounts of gold at it. When I played Ultima Online i was able to make a lot of money crafting for other people. It was fun to sit at the forge and make things for people so that they could go and beat monsters or players. But that aside, it would be nice if crafting became needed or useful again. Hence that question in the title bar.

Taleof2Cities · September 2019

Gracous wrote: »

It would be nice to have a crafting system where people could do crafting only and still make good amounts of gold at it. When I played Ultima Online i was able to make a lot of money crafting for other people. It was fun to sit at the forge and make things for people so that they could go and beat monsters or players. But that aside, it would be nice if crafting became needed or useful again. Hence that question in the title bar.

There is still good money in crafting for other players, @Gracous.

It does help to be in a trading guild so you can list your craftables for purchase.

In addition, you might want to brush up on what player crafting needs are in today’s ESO. Hint: It’s not nearly as much Clever Alchemist as it used to be.

Aurie · September 2019

I don’t do groups. Therefore my dungeon experience is limited to what I can solo. I craft most of my gear.

But if all sets were craftable, then would there be much point in group content? What would be the main rewards?

Starlock · September 2019

Aurelle1 wrote: »

I don’t do groups. Therefore my dungeon experience is limited to what I can solo. I craft most of my gear.

But if all sets were craftable, then would there be much point in group content? What would be the main rewards?

I do dungeons because I like to and for no other reason. Games are supposed to be FUN and the reward is in the FUN. If it isn’t, then there’s something wrong with the game design, IMHO.

Jayne_Doe · October 2019

I'd love for more crafted sets to be relevant. Perhaps even on par with overland sets. But, for my playstyle - a solo quester who does some normal base-game dungeons with my spouse - dungeon/trial gear isn't necessary. Would it be cool to have and would it make things go faster for me? Sure, but when I can duo normal dungeons in CP150 crafted gear (yes, I've never bothered to upgrade some gear I was testing out back when ruby mats were hard to come by), I don't really need dungeon gear.

If I wanted to get into end-game content, then I would focus more on upgrading my gear and pairing some crafted with overland while farming normal dungeons for better gear. But meh...running dungeons ad nauseum for gear is not my cup of flin. Others really enjoy dungeons, and I do, on occasion, but running them over and over? Nah. But then, there is content I'll do ad nauseum, like daily crafting writs on multiple characters or WB/delve dailies when I'm farming for motifs.

Minyassa · October 2019

I wish, but without the incessant grinding, people wouldn't see as many ads for the crown store and wouldn't be as tempted to spend money.

Imryll · October 2019

The_Saint wrote: »

Gracous wrote: »

For those who aren't able to do trials and arenas, should all gear be craftable?

why you need it when you dont do this things?

I guess I wouldn't if trial gear were disallowed in Cyrodiil (or PvP offered comparable self-only gear) and folks wearing trial gear would stop whining that overland content should be made more challenging because their gear makes it boring.

Also "do the content if you want the reward" seems to go out the window when PvP or crafting are involved. Remember the PvErs whining because they thought they ought to be able to buy storage containers for gold? I'm fine with different rewards for different activities but not if it's only trialers whose rewards are sacrosanct.

Marginis · October 2019

I would like crafting to be relevant at all in endgame. For me at least, it isn't. I'm not saying I want endgame gear to be craftable - by no means do I want that. What I want is to still be able to use crafting for something other than making training sets for newbies.