PvP Group Guide & Builds (Start of a "group requirements and specifications document")

Crown · November 2017

Further to the "How to win vs ball groups" document and the thread that has become zerg-drama oriented, at the request of a few people I've started a raid requirements document / guide.

My intent is for this to be a good beginning for any guild or group to use as their own raid specifications document. Nicholas of PD already has his own version going!

It is currently open to anyone for comments here: https://goo.gl/QTptCx

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, or additions (especially on stam builds which is one of my weak areas).

IxSTALKERxI · November 2017

Thread should be titled 'how to become a ball group'.

Biro123 · November 2017

Sounds like a software engineer.

ZOS_Mika · November 2017

We recently removed a handful of comments in this thread because they discussed moderator action. Since this is a violation of our Community Rules, we ask that you refrain from doing this in the future.

Nermy · May 2018

Nice one Crown. I hope it includes the immortal line, 'Stay on the crown!'

Will have a read and give you some feedback.

Qbiken · May 2018

Now I remember why I bookmarked this thread. Will come really handy now that my guild is starting to run some medium-scale PvP

Crown · May 2018

@Nermy and @Qbiken I updated the doc and put it at https://darkelves.com/raid-requirements/ a few months ago. I need to update the google doc with the latest info to facilitate comments.

Anazasi · May 2018

Interesting. Outdated but interesting enough.

Crown · May 2018

@Anazasi It helped a lot of guilds way back. I've not made changed in the last patch, so builds are a bit outdated.

I'm intending to update it for Summerset a week or two after launch once things are tested.

Anazasi · May 2018

@crown Most of the support builds and new gear has already been tested along with the new skill line. The templar healer PVP build has already been decided. The top three are pretty easy to discern at this point doubt any of the older sets like spell power, sanctuary or gos will even stay on the radar after 18.

Crown · May 2018

Anazasi wrote: »

@crown Most of the support builds and new gear has already been tested along with the new skill line. The templar healer PVP build has already been decided. The top three are pretty easy to discern at this point doubt any of the older sets like spell power, sanctuary or gos will even stay on the radar after 18.

I'm working two large contracts these days, so haven't had the time to go through everything. If you want to share info and save me time, you're welcome to!

Iskras · May 2018

good - i aprove

Thogard · May 2018

1. Wear earthgore
2. Stack on crown
3. Spam AOEs

easy.

Vilestride · May 2018

Small-scale guide:

1. Be Stamden
2. 2vX
3. X=1

easy.

Thogard · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Small-scale guide:

1. Be Stamden
2. 2vX
3. X=1

easy.

When you’re right, you’re right. And yet some “top” PvP guilds are still unwilling to enter 6v6 or 4v4 tournaments because they can’t figure out that formula.

A real head scratcher, huh?

montiferus · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Small-scale guide:

1. Be Stamden
2. 2vX
3. X=1

easy.

When you’re right, you’re right. And yet some “top” PvP guilds are still unwilling to enter 6v6 or 4v4 tournaments because they can’t figure out that formula.

A real head scratcher, huh?

Lol. I got a good chuckle out of that one. It amuses when they say large scale is harder than small scale yet if it was so easy why not come to these 6v6 events so we can all bare witness to their dominance?? Curious.

zyk · May 2018

montiferus wrote: »

Lol. I got a good chuckle out of that one. It amuses when they say large scale is harder than small scale yet if it was so easy why not come to these 6v6 events so we can all bare witness to their dominance?? Curious.

Because there are different aspects to AvA and not all of them are appealing to all players. Nothing else needs to be said, really. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of them and no aspect is morally -- or otherwise -- superior to the other.

I don't like Earthgore either, but I respect that groups of all sizes are going to use the best tools available for the job at hand. In open world AvA, clique rules don't apply.

Just like it's ridiculous to suggest every Stamden is a bad being carried by their class, it's also ridiculous to suggest that only bad players use Earthgore or prefer large scale PVP.

The people to blame for OP aspects of the game like Stamden and Earthgore all work for Zenimax. I think great strides have been made in promoting more competitive play on PC/NA because leaders have stepped up to reduce the barriers of toxicity. We should continue in that direction and all agree to blame Wrobel.

Vilestride · May 2018

Sensitive satori's all over the place.

I suppose while reminding me how few large scale groups were in the 6v6 you will also remind me how many top small scale groups have attended any 12v12 events.

C'mon kids. Let's just take a little banter without getting a frog in our sock.

Thogard · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

Sensitive satori's all over the place.

I suppose while reminding me how few large scale groups were in the 6v6 you will also remind me how many top small scale groups have attended any 12v12 events.

C'mon kids. Let's just take a little banter without getting a frog in our sock.

I’ve been at all of them actually. My 6 man combined with animosity to 12v13 and you probably remember what happened. Needless to say, a fight did not. Not going to bring it up because last time it was brought up we took 5 pages arguing about what happened lol

Vilestride · May 2018

All of them! Damn, that's so weird I must have looked around everywhere except where you were every time. Silly Vilestride. What a *** I am. Sorry champ...lol.

Unless by all you mean..just the last one.

Thogard · May 2018

Vilestride wrote: »

All of them! Damn, that's so weird I must have looked around everywhere except where you were every time. Silly Vilestride. What a *** I am. Sorry champ...lol.

Unless by all you mean..just the last one.

no ive been at all of the ones posted in the gvg discord. im usually up on a rock watching. i often get bored tho...

Vilestride · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

All of them! Damn, that's so weird I must have looked around everywhere except where you were every time. Silly Vilestride. What a *** I am. Sorry champ...lol.

Unless by all you mean..just the last one.

no ive been at all of the ones posted in the gvg discord. im usually up on a rock watching. i often get bored tho...

Agreed.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Sensitive satori's all over the place.

I suppose while reminding me how few large scale groups were in the 6v6 you will also remind me how many top small scale groups have attended any 12v12 events.

C'mon kids. Let's just take a little banter without getting a frog in our sock.

I’ve been at all of them actually. My 6 man combined with animosity to 12v13 and you probably remember what happened. Needless to say, a fight did not. Not going to bring it up because last time it was brought up we took 5 pages arguing about what happened lol

Err what? You guys have never challenged us to 12v12 if we had been fighting we would have gladly accepted as we have accepted every other challenge made.

6v6 is not interesting to me. It is less interesting with so many rules. I have the feeling that even if we fought 6v6 our tactics would likely soon be banned because something is unfair or players would demand that it be a 4v4 or 2v2. As has happened in the past with players offering an 8v8 to then suddenly be unable to meet those numbers.

What is interesting is how many smallscale players are so desperate to be noticed yet unwilling to meet us in our fights insisting we should come to theirs.

Thogard · May 2018

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Sensitive satori's all over the place.

I suppose while reminding me how few large scale groups were in the 6v6 you will also remind me how many top small scale groups have attended any 12v12 events.

C'mon kids. Let's just take a little banter without getting a frog in our sock.

I’ve been at all of them actually. My 6 man combined with animosity to 12v13 and you probably remember what happened. Needless to say, a fight did not. Not going to bring it up because last time it was brought up we took 5 pages arguing about what happened lol

Err what? You guys have never challenged us to 12v12 if we had been fighting we would have gladly accepted as we have accepted every other challenge made.

6v6 is not interesting to me. It is less interesting with so many rules. I have the feeling that even if we fought 6v6 our tactics would likely soon be banned because something is unfair or players would demand that it be a 4v4 or 2v2. As has happened in the past with players offering an 8v8 to then suddenly be unable to meet those numbers.

What is interesting is how many smallscale players are so desperate to be noticed yet unwilling to meet us in our fights insisting we should come to theirs.

Yeah I go to the events but we don’t have 12 so I just watch.

We ban earthgore in 6v6 because if it was allowed the fights would never end.

But yeah it is weird that 6man teams keep coming up with excuses not to fight the 12 man teams. But obviously the 12 man teams can’t fight the 6 man teams because where would they find -6 people to make it an even fight?

Checkmate 6 mans, lawl.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Sensitive satori's all over the place.

I suppose while reminding me how few large scale groups were in the 6v6 you will also remind me how many top small scale groups have attended any 12v12 events.

C'mon kids. Let's just take a little banter without getting a frog in our sock.

I’ve been at all of them actually. My 6 man combined with animosity to 12v13 and you probably remember what happened. Needless to say, a fight did not. Not going to bring it up because last time it was brought up we took 5 pages arguing about what happened lol

Err what? You guys have never challenged us to 12v12 if we had been fighting we would have gladly accepted as we have accepted every other challenge made.

6v6 is not interesting to me. It is less interesting with so many rules. I have the feeling that even if we fought 6v6 our tactics would likely soon be banned because something is unfair or players would demand that it be a 4v4 or 2v2. As has happened in the past with players offering an 8v8 to then suddenly be unable to meet those numbers.

What is interesting is how many smallscale players are so desperate to be noticed yet unwilling to meet us in our fights insisting we should come to theirs.

Yeah I go to the events but we don’t have 12 so I just watch.

We ban earthgore in 6v6 because if it was allowed the fights would never end.

But yeah it is weird that 6man teams keep coming up with excuses not to fight the 12 man teams. But obviously the 12 man teams can’t fight the 6 man teams because where would they find -6 people to make it an even fight?

Checkmate 6 mans, lawl.

You could easily find 6 people to fight 12 man's if you wanted to join in.
12m setup is very different to 6m setup it's not just a case of dropping 6 players if you don't realise that then I think you need to go and ask some more experienced players in your guild circles to explain it to you.

On top of this many 12m groups simply don't have an interest in another playstyle. They are quite happy to enjoy what they do. The fact that there's players jumping up and down on the sidelines watching them saying "you must change your whole setup and come fight us" doesn't really matter to most. If you want a group to fight you, you should go fight them in their preferred arena.
Just as if a 12m group wants to challenge a 24m group or 6m they should be prepared to do the same

Sanct16 · May 2018

Thogard wrote: »

1. Wear earthgore
2. Stack on crown
3. Spam AOEs

easy.

I guess you can easily invite 6 pugs to join your 6 man group then and tell them to follow this guide if it's truly this easy.

Sanct16 · May 2018

This whole discussion is pointless tho. Let's be real: Both the 12 man and the 6 man teams refuse to fight the other teams in their respective size because they are afraid of losing the fight and therefor hurting their reputation. The problem is that whoever wins the fight will use it to "prove" that they /their playstyle is better.

Excuses like "we can't get that many people" or "we aren't interested in other sized fights" are just a testiment to how toxic ESO community is.

So maybe for a start we should work on getting rid of the prejudices and be respectful to eachother maybe some day we might be able to have actually nice competitive fights where taking part doesn't come at the risk of "humiliation". Noone will ever accept a challenge like "I think you are trash, I'm much better than you, come fight me so I can show everyone how easily I rek you" unless they are really confident they can win.

Thogard · May 2018

Sanct16 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

1. Wear earthgore
2. Stack on crown
3. Spam AOEs

easy.

I guess you can easily invite 6 pugs to join your 6 man group then and tell them to follow this guide if it's truly this easy.

I don’t know anyone that runs Earthgore.. or at least anyone that’s brave enough to admit that they use it.

But still, you bring up a good point. I’ll talk to some people and see what we can do. Hopefully we can do something before everything gets flipped on it’s head with the Summerset changes. Last time we were ready to fight a 12 man, they decided to port to Vivec right as the fight was starting... That’s Left me with an itch I can’t quite scratch.

HaroniNDeorum · May 2018

Right as the fight was starting? Lmao what a liar. We never agreed to fight with you, your captain was being an a***ole the entire night acting like a dictator deciding which rules apply which not, only with the intention to un-balance my composition so you guys can do the only tactic small scallers know 1.slot Db 2. Stack crown 3. Spam Dbs. Be a man and take a fight as it is, dont come and cry for rules only for your benefict, also dont put a **** as captain, was so annoying.

Sandman929 · May 2018

HaroniNDeorum wrote: »

Right as the fight was starting? Lmao what a liar. We never agreed to fight with you, your captain was being an a***ole the entire night acting like a dictator deciding which rules apply which not, only with the intention to un-balance my composition so you guys can do the only tactic small scallers know 1.slot Db 2. Stack crown 3. Spam Dbs. Be a man and take a fight as it is, dont come and cry for rules only for your benefict, also dont put a **** as captain, was so annoying.

Nice GvG. The rules are you can't do anything you do, we can do everything we do, and we'll see who wins. I'll just stick to finding other groups in open world and hash things out there.

Thogard · May 2018

Yeah that’s why I didn’t want to bring it up... the story from the forfeiting team keeps changing every time.

Regardless, I’m going to try to build a group that will fight you guys on your terms with your rules. Who’s a good contact I can use to organize some fun scrimmages once we’re ready?