The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 22, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 24, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Counter to Soul Assault
-
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭What can I say, I agree that the skillcap to counter SA and not lose too much ressources to be helpless afterwards in medium armor is one of the highest in eso. Only the very competent players seem to be able to react accordingly in time.
But those very competent medium armor players have a very good time this patch (speaking bgs). It's incredibly hard to pin a top med armor player down, most are NB anyways in BGs. It's one of the few tools that allows a momentum shift in favor of the not-as-mobile classes to not have to face endless procset-powered slopes of hit & run.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on July 8, 2017 6:14AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?
Curse won't kill you alone. If it does, you're bad or outnumbered.
Fury's initial hit is dodgable.
Temp
Temp
It IS an ultimate, after all. Many can be blocked, though.
Applying those DoTs is the problem.
And despite Shieldbreaker, shields got nerfed again and again. Although they eat every CC and don't scale.
Dodge, on the other hand, is clearly overperforming.
It persists after the animation, which is broken.
You can cancel into it. Why can't I do a shield->Force Pulse weave?
Dodge is instant and ignores latency. I have to wait for the shield animation to finish. If I get hit by a hitscan ability like Executioner, I'm dead, despite me having pressed the shield button.
And above all, dodge SCALES. That is massive. When dodge only evades one attack or shields gain a boost against more attackers, then you can come back and complain about magicka defense.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?
Curse won't kill you alone. If it does, you're bad or outnumbered.
Fury's initial hit is dodgable.
Temp
Temp
It IS an ultimate, after all. Many can be blocked, though.
Applying those DoTs is the problem.
And despite Shieldbreaker, shields got nerfed again and again. Although they eat every CC and don't scale.
Dodge, on the other hand, is clearly overperforming.
It persists after the animation, which is broken.
You can cancel into it. Why can't I do a shield->Force Pulse weave?
Dodge is instant and ignores latency. I have to wait for the shield animation to finish. If I get hit by a hitscan ability like Executioner, I'm dead, despite me having pressed the shield button.
And above all, dodge SCALES. That is massive. When dodge only evades one attack or shields gain a boost against more attackers, then you can come back and complain about magicka defense.
Dodge scale but dodge has a cost increase.
You can cancel shields, block cast, dodge cast, weapon swap cast?
Shields have been nerf and nerfed again yet they are still very strong what does that say about them before nerfs?
Applying dots isn't a problem.
Curse is basically 22k-28k damage you have to eat. Easily crits for 6k~ Won't kill you alone but it'll hurt.
Yet the execute isn't.
Are you really going to make me type out everything that goes through dodge?
Your acting like people are in dodge 24/7 when that is literally impossible. The cost increase makes that impossible.
A shield user can keep a shield up 24/7 a dodge user can't dodge 24/7.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?
Curse won't kill you alone. If it does, you're bad or outnumbered.
Fury's initial hit is dodgable.
Temp
Temp
It IS an ultimate, after all. Many can be blocked, though.
Applying those DoTs is the problem.
And despite Shieldbreaker, shields got nerfed again and again. Although they eat every CC and don't scale.
Dodge, on the other hand, is clearly overperforming.
It persists after the animation, which is broken.
You can cancel into it. Why can't I do a shield->Force Pulse weave?
Dodge is instant and ignores latency. I have to wait for the shield animation to finish. If I get hit by a hitscan ability like Executioner, I'm dead, despite me having pressed the shield button.
And above all, dodge SCALES. That is massive. When dodge only evades one attack or shields gain a boost against more attackers, then you can come back and complain about magicka defense.
Dodge scale but dodge has a cost increase.
You can cancel shields, block cast, dodge cast, weapon swap cast?
Shields have been nerf and nerfed again yet they are still very strong what does that say about them before nerfs?
Applying dots isn't a problem.
Curse is basically 22k-28k damage you have to eat. Easily crits for 6k~ Won't kill you alone but it'll hurt.
Yet the execute isn't.
Are you really going to make me type out everything that goes through dodge?
Your acting like people are in dodge 24/7 when that is literally impossible. The cost increase makes that impossible.
A shield user can keep a shield up 24/7 a dodge user can't dodge 24/7.
Yeah, I see it now. Your build sacrifices sustain to get that easy proc cheese kill. Because every competent stam player I've encountered can indeed dodge at will.
Really, you complaining about cost? Play magicka and try to keep those 3k+ cost shields up forever. You'll be dry before you know it.
And no, blockcasting is not the same as weaving a Surprise Attack into a roll.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?
Curse won't kill you alone. If it does, you're bad or outnumbered.
Fury's initial hit is dodgable.
Temp
Temp
It IS an ultimate, after all. Many can be blocked, though.
Applying those DoTs is the problem.
And despite Shieldbreaker, shields got nerfed again and again. Although they eat every CC and don't scale.
Dodge, on the other hand, is clearly overperforming.
It persists after the animation, which is broken.
You can cancel into it. Why can't I do a shield->Force Pulse weave?
Dodge is instant and ignores latency. I have to wait for the shield animation to finish. If I get hit by a hitscan ability like Executioner, I'm dead, despite me having pressed the shield button.
And above all, dodge SCALES. That is massive. When dodge only evades one attack or shields gain a boost against more attackers, then you can come back and complain about magicka defense.
Dodge scale but dodge has a cost increase.
You can cancel shields, block cast, dodge cast, weapon swap cast?
Shields have been nerf and nerfed again yet they are still very strong what does that say about them before nerfs?
Applying dots isn't a problem.
Curse is basically 22k-28k damage you have to eat. Easily crits for 6k~ Won't kill you alone but it'll hurt.
Yet the execute isn't.
Are you really going to make me type out everything that goes through dodge?
Your acting like people are in dodge 24/7 when that is literally impossible. The cost increase makes that impossible.
A shield user can keep a shield up 24/7 a dodge user can't dodge 24/7.
Yeah, I see it now. Your build sacrifices sustain to get that easy proc cheese kill. Because every competent stam player I've encountered can indeed dodge at will.
Really, you complaining about cost? Play magicka and try to keep those 3k+ cost shields up forever. You'll be dry before you know it.
And no, blockcasting is not the same as weaving a Surprise Attack into a roll.
I play magicka. If your build it right you can shield as much as you want.
My builds don't sacrifice sustain either, wtf are you on about. Theres sustain and there is a 33% increase dodge roll cost per roll. So they will have to stop rolling eventually. Or are you telling me them someone don't and its 1.6 again?
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?
Curse won't kill you alone. If it does, you're bad or outnumbered.
Fury's initial hit is dodgable.
Temp
Temp
It IS an ultimate, after all. Many can be blocked, though.
Applying those DoTs is the problem.
And despite Shieldbreaker, shields got nerfed again and again. Although they eat every CC and don't scale.
Dodge, on the other hand, is clearly overperforming.
It persists after the animation, which is broken.
You can cancel into it. Why can't I do a shield->Force Pulse weave?
Dodge is instant and ignores latency. I have to wait for the shield animation to finish. If I get hit by a hitscan ability like Executioner, I'm dead, despite me having pressed the shield button.
And above all, dodge SCALES. That is massive. When dodge only evades one attack or shields gain a boost against more attackers, then you can come back and complain about magicka defense.
Do you actually know that dodgeroll isn't restricted to medium armor? My friend mains a magicka sorc and has almost 2k stamina regen, 41.5k magicka, 3k magicka regen and 2.5k spelldamage (fully buffed with vampire, tripot etc of course). He can basically roll everytime when the cost increase timer expires and also break free on cooldown without ever getting out of stamina.
I would highly suggest that you start playing a medium armor build and remove proc sets from it (which get nerfed anyways) and try to duel without line of sight of course. There is a reason that you see barely anybody dueling in medium armor. And the weakness of medium armor is overshaded by ridiculous overperforming proc sets and gank builds. Light armor could indeed need a buff in terms of mobility while medium armor needs more survivability (probably nerf cloak and sorc a bit then, otherwise nb and magsorc could become too strong).leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
--->It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.
--->It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.Shieldbreaker is bad design.
It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?
I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia
No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?
He's got a point.though.
Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.
Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.
What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.
You're still off.
I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.
But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.
And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.
I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.
There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.
Yes, the nerf to Dawnbreaker was unnecessary, agreed.
No, there are not enough counters to dodge.
Don't gimme that AoE bull. If you die to that 2k Sap Essence or Pulsar, you deserve to die and delete your game.
And everything else, like Meteor and certain CCs won't kill on their own.
I mean, it's simple logic, really. People wouldn't use SA more or cry about it, if the existing "counters" to dodge would have been sufficient, right? A hard counter used to be unavailable to non-Templars, and so we got the SA buffs.
People use SA because its easy mode. It allows bad players to actually be useful, even if they don't do dmg the fact the player its used on has to block and has a 70% for 4s is an auto death. Thats why people use it, not because there is 'no counters'
Literally any magicka aoe in the game
Curses
fury
beam
sweeps/jabs
Pretty much any ultimate
Any dot that you land of them
There is so many counters that go through roll.
Where are the counters to shields? Shieldbreaker?
Curse won't kill you alone. If it does, you're bad or outnumbered.
Fury's initial hit is dodgable.
Temp
Temp
It IS an ultimate, after all. Many can be blocked, though.
Applying those DoTs is the problem.
And despite Shieldbreaker, shields got nerfed again and again. Although they eat every CC and don't scale.
Dodge, on the other hand, is clearly overperforming.
It persists after the animation, which is broken.
You can cancel into it. Why can't I do a shield->Force Pulse weave?
Dodge is instant and ignores latency. I have to wait for the shield animation to finish. If I get hit by a hitscan ability like Executioner, I'm dead, despite me having pressed the shield button.
And above all, dodge SCALES. That is massive. When dodge only evades one attack or shields gain a boost against more attackers, then you can come back and complain about magicka defense.
Dodge scale but dodge has a cost increase.
You can cancel shields, block cast, dodge cast, weapon swap cast?
Shields have been nerf and nerfed again yet they are still very strong what does that say about them before nerfs?
Applying dots isn't a problem.
Curse is basically 22k-28k damage you have to eat. Easily crits for 6k~ Won't kill you alone but it'll hurt.
Yet the execute isn't.
Are you really going to make me type out everything that goes through dodge?
Your acting like people are in dodge 24/7 when that is literally impossible. The cost increase makes that impossible.
A shield user can keep a shield up 24/7 a dodge user can't dodge 24/7.
Yeah, I see it now. Your build sacrifices sustain to get that easy proc cheese kill. Because every competent stam player I've encountered can indeed dodge at will.
Really, you complaining about cost? Play magicka and try to keep those 3k+ cost shields up forever. You'll be dry before you know it.
And no, blockcasting is not the same as weaving a Surprise Attack into a roll.
Procbuilds can go for more sustain than non proc builds because you lack too much damage by overstacking regen without using proc sets.
What's up with 3k+ shield costs? Vigor and Rally are as expensive and dodgeroll isn't cheap as well. And stamina doesn't has ridiculous sustain sets like magicka has (I'm talking about Amberplasm and Alteration Mastery).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One of the strengths of soul assault that I've not yet seen mentioned is that it acts like a targeting laser.. It often won't kill on its own, but it adds a lot of pressure. Anyone with a gap closer and a bit of instant burst and their eyes open will burst the guy who's being soul-assaulted, and its often gg.
But then getting focused by 2 ultis from 2 players in most cases should be gg.. Soul assault just makes it easier for them to be coordinated.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
I have a medium armor build, 2h and build and soul assault for some reason eats up my stam and still does 14k damage. Maybe a bug?Fur_like_snow wrote: »Line of sight is the best counter in my experience. also it doesn't take anywhere near that amount of stamina to block SA considering the ability is like 3-4 ticks?
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lao✭✭✭✭Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »Block cast your rally burst heal.
^this
you basically just block heal through it. you should always have vigor and preferably some sort of hot running (either momentum or the dw one) if you´re in heavy armor and have snb the skill is a joke. as a medium armor user without snb and cloak you just have to make sure to have your hots and your defense up and time your burst heal well. also use dodge roll to get behind LoS if possible. you role faster than you walk at 70% snare even tho at the expense of more stamina.
overall i have to agree tho if you´re not in heavy and with a shield the skill is too strong. you should atleast be able to bash the user and the ulti cost should be way higher.0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You can't interrupt a person using it and they get CC immunity.Bash, stun, LoS, out damage, out heal...
You know if you Roll dodge while someone SA you will now take full damage of the SA during that time your Roll dodging.It cost way to much stam to block it in Meduim armor.If I'm running S&B imo I'm better off running heavy.Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »Block cast your rally burst heal.
^this
you basically just block heal through it. you should always have vigor and preferably some sort of hot running (either momentum or the dw one) if you´re in heavy armor and have snb the skill is a joke. as a medium armor user without snb and cloak you just have to make sure to have your hots and your defense up and time your burst heal well. also use dodge roll to get behind LoS if possible. you role faster than you walk at 70% snare even tho at the expense of more stamina.
overall i have to agree tho if you´re not in heavy and with a shield the skill is too strong. you should atleast be able to bash the user and the ulti cost should be way higher.
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lao✭✭✭✭
You can't interrupt a person using it and they get CC immunity.Bash, stun, LoS, out damage, out heal...
You know if you Roll dodge while someone SA you will now take full damage of the SA during that time your Roll dodging.It cost way to much stam to block it in Meduim armor.If I'm running S&B imo I'm better off running heavy.Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »Block cast your rally burst heal.
^this
you basically just block heal through it. you should always have vigor and preferably some sort of hot running (either momentum or the dw one) if you´re in heavy armor and have snb the skill is a joke. as a medium armor user without snb and cloak you just have to make sure to have your hots and your defense up and time your burst heal well. also use dodge roll to get behind LoS if possible. you role faster than you walk at 70% snare even tho at the expense of more stamina.
overall i have to agree tho if you´re not in heavy and with a shield the skill is too strong. you should atleast be able to bash the user and the ulti cost should be way higher.
yes you will take full dmg while you dodgeroll but if that roll gets you behind cover so you can break los and avoid the rest of the channel its still better than just take the full channel while blocking. the stam drain is insane when your in medium so whenever you get SA´d your first thought has to be "how can i break this". when thats not an option you´re best off blocking a part of it and take the rest as dmg and then time your burst heal right. no matter what you do however you will always take a ton of dmg/stat drain as a medium user without a shield. it was fine when you could bash it cos thats an actual counterplay but the way it is now its simply too strong vs medium targets.1 -
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[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
This post is to let you know that we've felt it necessary to put this thread down, as it seemed to have died some time ago. At this time we'd like to try and keep Draugr threads from roaming around front page, pushing down newer and more lively threads. Please feel free to continue this discussion on a recent thread under the same subject, or create one if a recent one is not available.
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