Sorcs are OP in PVP and PVE

ben_ESO5 · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And you believe they are the only class that can do this? You've not seen extreme builds from other classes be able to solo unsoloable circumstances?

C'mon.

If taking exceptional builds (builds that are the exception) and using them to support any class as OP, then every class is OP.

People will always find the way to get the absolute most from a combination. When that combination becomes the standard, then you can say it's OP.

Sorc's die in PvP every day. If they didn't, I'd still be at 0/20 on my kill quest.

Wow, you're quite the pro at putting words into other people's mouths. Reread your first sentence, all you did was set up a strawman argument. I didn't say I believe that, you did. We're talking about sorcs here, so I kept it to that. But fine, why not, please prove your point. I think it'd be fun to see any other min/max class do the exact same (i.e. solo the atronach). Maybe a DK?

PainfulFAFA · April 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Just as the title states, sorcerers are extremely overpowered in PvP and pve right now.

If they changed around a couple skills they would be more in balance with the rest of the classes.

Ball of lightning needs to be nerfed. A sorc with endless magicka can simply run away from EVERY fight
My suggestion would be to halve the radius of the escape from 20m to 10m.

Nerf the class based shield conjured ward. It grants too much of a damage shield and can be stacked with other shields
Maybe cut it back to around a 7k damage shield not a 10k+

Crystal fragments does way too much damage and on top of that it is a stun
I can get crystal frags right now to hit for 20k + with the correct sets and buffs up on a target

Powered overload shouldn't be able to be charged up to 1000 then endlessly spammed for 12k non crit and 20k+ critical hits

These are my suggestions.

I currently run a sorc and a dk at v14 and the sorcerer is a lot better than my dk

[Moderator Note: Edited title to better align with the discussion]

The whole point of a sorc is to dish out damage. It is a DPS class imo. I usually had a hard time executing enemies with a DK other than spamming whip whip. A sorc glass cannon is supposed to do all that damage unfortunately they get destroyed with anything holding a bow or a 2 handed weapon.
I don't think they need a nerf because speccing for high DPS comes at a cost... sustainability.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

Dennizon wrote: »

Split hairs if you wish, but most understand figures of speech. If you play pvp, as a sorc that doesn't spend time porting away from fights, then you understand my point and have no need to try and defend an overpowered feature.

It's not a matter of splitting hairs. It's a matter of half a dozen threads with outrageous claims and unverifiable numbers that some of these people actually believe.

You hear something long enough, starts to sound like the truth, regardless how valid or invalid it is.

I do PvP and I've been on both sides of it. I use Streak, not BoL, but not to run away. I pride myself on being a proper pain in the ass for any foe as much as I possibly can be. I'm far from unkillable, however.

I say this in the midst of the hyperbole spewed forth the other night by the very group I was in, regarding what they've come to believe all builds of all Sorcs are capable of.

You wanna argue/support either side of this, fine, but do so with real values and real scenarios, not figure of speech extremes for many that already don't understand what the class is and is not capable of.

It's no different than saying "I saw a DK take out 50 people at once." Someone will look at that statement and take it for fact.

Say what you mean. Mean what you say.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

ben_ESO5 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

And you believe they are the only class that can do this? You've not seen extreme builds from other classes be able to solo unsoloable circumstances?

C'mon.

If taking exceptional builds (builds that are the exception) and using them to support any class as OP, then every class is OP.

People will always find the way to get the absolute most from a combination. When that combination becomes the standard, then you can say it's OP.

Sorc's die in PvP every day. If they didn't, I'd still be at 0/20 on my kill quest.

Wow, you're quite the pro at putting words into other people's mouths.

They're questions, ben, easily recognized by the '?' at the end.

Dennizon · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Dennizon wrote: »

Split hairs if you wish, but most understand figures of speech. If you play pvp, as a sorc that doesn't spend time porting away from fights, then you understand my point and have no need to try and defend an overpowered feature.

It's not a matter of splitting hairs. It's a matter of half a dozen threads with outrageous claims and unverifiable numbers that some of these people actually believe.

You hear something long enough, starts to sound like the truth, regardless how valid or invalid it is.

I do PvP and I've been on both sides of it. I use Streak, not BoL, but not to run away. I pride myself on being a proper pain in the ass for any foe as much as I possibly can be. I'm far from unkillable, however.

I say this in the midst of the hyperbole spewed forth the other night by the very group I was in, regarding what they've come to believe all builds of all Sorcs are capable of.

You wanna argue/support either side of this, fine, but do so with real values and real scenarios, not figure of speech extremes for many that already don't understand what the class is and is not capable of.

It's no different than saying "I saw a DK take out 50 people at once." Someone will look at that statement and take it for fact.

Say what you mean. Mean what you say.

I am being perfectly specific. In PvP, sorcs can port TOO far away, TOO often, for TOO LONG a duration. I am not commenting on your damage shields or overload. I am specifically talking about one issue that makes it possible for a sorc to run away from any fight in such a way that it is nearly impossible to counter. This ability needs a cooldown timer, or it needs to be so resource intensive that it functions as an escape mechanism rather than a way to kite that is nearly impossible to counter in PVP settings. I understand it may not ALWAYS function in the way I describe, but it USUALLY does. The reason you hear this so often that people start to believe it is because it is the truth.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2015

If you can't figure out how to counter being kited, there is not a nerf in the world that will save you.

There are gap closers that can go 2 for 1 the distance fo BoL/Streak.

It has a cooldown timer that makes it resource intensive. It costs 50% every additional cast within four seconds of the last. In the scenario you offer, the penalty is being applied and that's all that the Sorc is getting done.

There are potion cooldown limits. There are regen limits. A little basic math will determine if you're using your resource pool for one, there is nothing left for the other, and they're not DPSing you from 10 BoL's away.

Beyond that, the counters are:

Stuns
CC's
DoT's
Timing
Tactics/Environment

There are also Horses for anyone not currently in combat, Rapids for anyone that is.

A running Sorc is not a DPSing Sorc, and a dead Sorc 10 BoL's away is still a dead Sorc.

Lastly, Pro tip: The way to counter being kited is to not follow. It's why I don't chase speed horses in the distance while on foot.

It's like the people I see that will chase after someone around a stack of logs, all going the same direction, and wondering why they never gain any ground.

I don't think you're being outclassed. I suspect you're being outplayed, and there is no nerf for that.

Keron · April 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

The way to counter being kited is to not follow. It's why I don't chase speed horses in the distance while on foot.

And this is the magic. Don't follow, stealth, wait for him to come back and crit rush/wrecking blow him to pieces. I mean every non sorc IS running two handed.

Stamden · April 2015

Why did this post title get changed. Sorcs are OP in PvP yes, but there fine in PvE. I don't think anyone is complaint about their PvE at all. What is stupid is BoL and shield stacking, which doesn't effect PvE at all.

ZOS_ArtG · April 2015

Hello, all.

We decided to sink this thread because it was no longer taking a constructive route. We appreciate and understand the point which is being made, and we believe it should be allowed to remain open for discussion, but we ask that conversations are respectful/constructive. For this reason, we’ve left the thread open but have sunk it.

Ezareth · April 2015

Bfish22090 wrote: »

TLDR
These are my suggestions.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I'll trade my DK lava whip and reflective scales for your Jesus Beam

On the Most Survivable Class:

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Dk all the way, I've tanked mobs of people in PVP without them putting a dent in my health

On Strongest Class in PvP

Bfish22090 wrote: »

If I vote dragonknight will they Nerf them?

On the thread "Sorcerers. It's time to Gut them:

Bfish22090 wrote: »

PvP sorcs are op, however dks are more op

And then this....

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I play a sorc as my main, I'm not asking for a Nerf because I have trouble killing sorcs I'm asking for a Nerf for the good of ESO and class balance

I'm sure you have your best interests at heart here. If your "suggestions" for Sorc class balance are anywhere as good as your suggestions for DK, I think we'll pass.

/thread

ssewallb14_ESO · April 2015

Spangla wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

The OP is obviously a PvP player, Sorc is NOT OP IN PvE, in fact it's finally so close to being viable as a competitive DPS class. Just like Templar was before some PvP'ers cried about jabs and radiant destruction, placing Templar last once again in the dps race. Do what you want in PvP, just please don't nerf PvE Sorc into the ground because of PvP complaints.

Templers should be last in the dps race they are hands down the best healers.... Why would they also have comparable dps

ESO isn't one role per class. You may notice every class has skills that were obviously intended for each of the 3 roles, including more than 1/3 of Templar's skills being DPS oriented. The idea is any class can be competitive in any role depending on your weapon selection and how you tune. That's why all the buffs to Templar DPS in the latest patch (Radiant Destruction, stackable backlash, strikes/jabs scaling off of the proper crit, every class now having major spell power buff), the gameplay designers flat out said they wanted Templar to be a choice for DPS. And it was almost there for a couple glorious weeks.

Then the PvP complaints came, and that was the end of that.

Just balance PvP separately ZoS. It's hard enough to make multiple classes work for multiple roles, having to have the same skills work seamlessly in what's basically a different game is near impossible.