Sorcs are OP in PVP and PVE

Flaminir

The OP lost all credibility the second they said Sorc's were OP in PvE.

Fun... yes.

But OP.... hardly.

Worst healers.
Arguably joint worse tanks.
No group utility.
3rd in overall DPS.

That's not the definition of being OP to me. By definition it makes other classes even more OP.

Clearly the PvE part was just added to keep this thread alive..... nobody who knows anything about Sorcs could say they are OP in any PvE context.

And just to weigh in on the shields debate.... they are a replacement for a heal.

Some of these threads are hilarious... they are created by people not looking at the big picture & are expecting each class to have directly comparable skills. EG: skill X is overpowered because it does more DPS/biggerheal/etc than Y skill.

Each class is different & unique.... that's the whole point. Each class has a few skills that are very strong in certain situations... and all these skills have counters. But people don't bother to learn the counters & then claim things are OP & need nerfs.

skarvika

Psychobunni wrote: »

OP needs to remove PVE from the thread title as it was obviously only added in to keep thread in general section and not PVP where it belongs, (why don't the mods see this?)

Flaminir wrote: »

The OP lost all credibility the second they said Sorc's were OP in PvE.

Just thought I'd point out that a mod was the one who came up with the thread title. In fact, it even says so in the first post...

Cathrin

skarvika wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

OP needs to remove PVE from the thread title as it was obviously only added in to keep thread in general section and not PVP where it belongs, (why don't the mods see this?)

Flaminir wrote: »

The OP lost all credibility the second they said Sorc's were OP in PvE.

Just thought I'd point out that a mod was the one who came up with the thread title. In fact, it even says so in the first post...

Mods are not playing their own game then?

Anyway, even if I think sorcs are not OP, what is the problem if they are?
PvE is a group play, so get in group with some sorcs of your own faction, get some sneaky NBs in there, some tanking DKs and some healing Templars. If the sorcs in the other faction are still better, then you just have to learn how to play.

Flaminir

skarvika wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

OP needs to remove PVE from the thread title as it was obviously only added in to keep thread in general section and not PVP where it belongs, (why don't the mods see this?)

Flaminir wrote: »

The OP lost all credibility the second they said Sorc's were OP in PvE.

Just thought I'd point out that a mod was the one who came up with the thread title. In fact, it even says so in the first post...

Title perhaps.... but they were only repeating what the OP actually wrote in like the 1st line of their post, where they explicitly stated that Sorcs were OP in both PvP & PvE.

Zhoyzu

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Two options i think could work to help balance sorcs:

1. Make all shields scale based off of Health (not a sorc nerf but would affect all classes)

2. Make bolt escape scale off of stamina instead of magicka. The reason i suggest this is not because it makes any real sense but rather that it would force sorcs to spend some skill points somewhere other than magicka.

At the moment, sorcs are very strong ONLY because they are able to put all of their eggs in one basket by stacking all of their resources into their magicka pool. As it stands sorc users are rewarded with survivability, damage and escapability for ONLY stacking their resources into magicka.

The above suggestions would help in forcing sorc users to have more build variety and be less cookie cutter.

this implies NIght blades can't do the same?

Magicka based NBs can spam fear and invis all day, stamina nbs can roll dodge and block for awhile. and thats with "all eggs in one basket". These strawman arguments are getting fierce. Templars too, they can have some really strong magicka builds and stamina builds now.

Emma_Overload

kimboh wrote: »

The only problem I have with Sorcs is overload, it's way too cheap and overload attacks build ultimate making it easy to keep ultimate full all the time and have overload active permanently.
I think this needs to change, either increase the cost of overload or remove the ultimate generation while it is active.

That would make Overload USELESS for PvE, where combat can go on much longer than the brief PvP skirmishes which usually result in one opponent dying within seconds.

Overload has ALREADY been nerfed in several different ways, just leave it alone.

Sphinx2318

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Two options i think could work to help balance sorcs:

1. Make all shields scale based off of Health (not a sorc nerf but would affect all classes)

2. Make bolt escape scale off of stamina instead of magicka. The reason i suggest this is not because it makes any real sense but rather that it would force sorcs to spend some skill points somewhere other than magicka.

At the moment, sorcs are very strong ONLY because they are able to put all of their eggs in one basket by stacking all of their resources into their magicka pool. As it stands sorc users are rewarded with survivability, damage and escapability for ONLY stacking their resources into magicka.

The above suggestions would help in forcing sorc users to have more build variety and be less cookie cutter.

this implies NIght blades can't do the same?

Magicka based NBs can spam fear and invis all day, stamina nbs can roll dodge and block for awhile. and thats with "all eggs in one basket". These strawman arguments are getting fierce. Templars too, they can have some really strong magicka builds and stamina builds now.

ok then just buff DK's

Yolokin_Swagonborn

NCML wrote: »

jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »

NCML wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

If were comparing to other classes, the dks damage shield is alot less than the sorcs.

Also templars had an op damage shield for a while until they balanced it

And if we are comparing classes, how many classes have abilities like dragons blood? Aka: spammable instant health.

Templars, Sorcs (via Clannfear), so everyone but NB

Sorc via clannfear? I said spammable and instant.

Doesn't seem like anyone criticizing sorc has actually played a sorc. It takes a long time to summon and de-summon a clannfear. Definitely something you cant do in the middle of enemies in PvP and expect to live long.

Sorc's still have no battlefield effective heals and spamming ward only works until your stam runs out. Then you can be easily bursted down.

Remember how before 1.6 everyone said sorcs were going to be OP because of pet damage or pet heals or pet spam. Well it didn't happen because every sorcerer I know HATES USING PETS.

SafiyerAmitora

Great... Just what we need; another nerf Sorc thread! ... This, and the other 58513790832638046 of them. /endsarcasm

Flaminir

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

OP needs to remove PVE from the thread title as it was obviously only added in to keep thread in general section and not PVP where it belongs, (why don't the mods see this?)

Flaminir wrote: »

The OP lost all credibility the second they said Sorc's were OP in PvE.

Just thought I'd point out that a mod was the one who came up with the thread title. In fact, it even says so in the first post...

Title perhaps.... but they were only repeating what the OP actually wrote in like the 1st line of their post, where they explicitly stated that Sorcs were OP in both PvP & PvE.

Thanks but the title and post was changed by the moderator

Hmmm.... well in that case that's worrying if the mods added that info in & you didn't write something to that effect.

So are you saying that you DON'T think they are OP in PvE?

Merlin13KAGL

ZOS_ArtG wrote: »

After revisiting the intent of this thread, it looks like our earlier redirect was not a close enough match to warrant closure of this thread as a duplicate.

Really? Please highlight the differences from the other dozen + threads on the same subject by the same (group of) people??

skarvika wrote: »

Seriously though, I do agree. My PVP guild leader is a sorc, she intentionally stays away from using abilities that most sorcs are using these days because she doesn't want to be one of "those people." Look at all the people who constantly get accused of hacking on here...they're not hackers, they're sorcs! They shield stack so hard that you can't even hope touch their health, hit you with meteor to knock you down and then hit ya with a crystal frag so deadly that your family line will have ceased to exist as of 3 generations ago. On the off chance that they get zerged, they'll take out as many people as possible by themselves (I've seen sorcs manage to take on 20+ people at once, often killing at least half of them), then bolt halfway across the map and people can't even catch up to them if they try...and how I've tried! I've tried gap closers...doesn't work. I zip up to them, boink, they're almost out of sight again. I've even tried just plain ole chasing them, but of course that doesn't work. Did I mention I have a full speed mount and rapid maneuver? "Don't chase the sorc" has become a bit of a catchphrase in Cyrodiil.
Now sorcs, I know you like being top dog...it's understandable, who wouldn't? But you've gotta admit...there's some serious class imbalance here and that affects the state of the game in a big, negative way.

I just want to personally confirm the complete absence of hyperbole in this post.

/facepalm

Bouvin

Each of the 4 classes currently have a "Class is OP and needs nerfed" thread that is active.

So, are people saying all 4 classes are OP? That doesn't make any sense.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I play a sorc as my main, I'm not asking for a Nerf because I have trouble killing sorcs I'm asking for a Nerf for the good of ESO and class balance

lol
how charitable of you!

How about they do the opposite of what you are requesting?

How about they change the damage absorber meta magic classes to be based off magika and stam classes to be based off stam?

this too amounts to equality!

IMO however, I still feel when it comes to player skill-- that trumps everything.

And with player skill taken into consideration in realtion to the classes

DK still reigns supreme, especially if you know how to play a more tank style that has unending resources.

Darklord_Tiberius

I PvP everyday for at least 3-4 hours. The biggest issue I see with sorcs is their ability to not only hit like truck, but also the fact they have a very cheap and easy class shield that makes them nearly invincible. To add to this, they have THE BEST escape ability among all 4 class; well the two classes that have them sorcs and Nbs.

No class should have all three mechanics. If a class is going to be a glass cannon, they shouldn't be able to have almost perfect invincibility. To make up for their weakness, they have the escape skill, just as NBs do. Templars and DKs do not have escape abilities because these two classes have the best survivablity.

It really isn't a hard concept to understand. Make all damage shields scale off health and the issue of the "overpowered" sorc will be over in PvP.

As it stands now, sorcs do not have to choose between survivablity or damage; which is broken in my opinion. The guilty people know who they are and without a doubt will cry about how they "think" it is balanced. When you see a v14 sorc in PvP with 14-15k health you know all they are doing is stacking max magicka and spell power.

All classes need to be re balanced and many skills adjusted/fixed. For example, Templars have six skills that are broken in PvP that is over 1/3 of our class skills.

tist

Every sorc thread

NB/Templar/DK: NERF SORCS - HIGH BURST DMG, MOBILTY, SHIELDZ
Sorcs: WE R BALANCED. NERF FEAR OR SOMETHIN

LameoveR

I don't want to write another "l2p" text about "sorc OP in PVP". No.
But...
Sorcs OP in PVE?
It's a nonsense.

Jules

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Just as the title states, sorcerers are extremely overpowered in PvP

Debatable. Most people seem to have a problem with sorcs because shields. However people act like shield stacking isn't possible with all other classes through the use of damage shields from weapon skill lines, but it totally is. Keeping up annul and healing ward, boom bap. And plenty more.

I guess people's main gripe is that hardened ward is dope. Which it is. Know what's NOT DOPE? 3-5k physical and spell resist in full light armor. In order to compensate for the squishiness of LA I think hardened ward is totally justifiable.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

and pve right now.

Not op. They are finally at a place where they're viable in PVE but they are certainly not op. If you look in top leaderboard times in PVE you'll see few sorcs in the top three spots.(except HRC HM). Any nerfs to Sorc for PVP purposes will again nerf PVE sorcs who are finally catching a break.

SafiyerAmitora

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Make all damage shields scale off health and the issue of the "overpowered" sorc will be over in PvP.

And so shall arise the age of the "underpowered" Sorc!... Oh wait... Sorry, my mistake; it's already happening.

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

...sorcs do not have to choose between survivablity or damage...

As a v1 Sorc, I'm having to sacrifice damage for survivability. Being v1, I have 1117 spell dmg, so I can have better regen and magicka. And with my ward getting torn to shreds in a matter of a hit or two (my ward shields me for about 8.5k total (32% @ rank III and 20 CP into Bastion included) in Cyrodiil) and having to refresh it just to survive (but usually either getting CC'd and dying, or just dying from burst anyway), my damage is non-existent because I'm too busy trying to stay alive. How's that not having to choose?

EDIT: Now that I'm in-game, adjusted numbers to correct amount.

rileynotzb14_ESO

Sorcs are so easy to counter. You should really do some research if you have a hard time fighting them. I don't wan to say L2P cause too many idiots throw that term around, but yea...

byrom101b16_ESO

ZOS_ArtG wrote: »

After revisiting the intent of this thread, it looks like our earlier redirect was not a close enough match to warrant closure of this thread as a duplicate. Our apologies for any confusion/inconvenience this may have caused. In addition to reopening this thread, we've edited the title so that it more accurately reflects the topics being discussed in the thread. Feel free to join the PVP discussion for adding your thoughts on a successful balance to Sorcerers within Cyrodiil!

We've also removed a number of comments that were violations of our Code of Conduct regarding Trolling and Baiting. Please be aware that we expect all discussions on our forums to be constructive and civil and that we do not tolerate behavior that is not in line with our rules. Thank you for understanding.

How many threads with tons of debate on how the Sorcerer needs improvement and redesign get no Z-Box next to them EVER... and this ridiculous set of OP statements gets a first page nod.

For those who don't think 'limitless magicka' is something other than a ridiculous claim - don't bother adding your opinions... really...

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

I PvP everyday for at least 3-4 hours. The biggest issue I see with sorcs is their ability to not only hit like truck, but also the fact they have a very cheap and easy class shield that makes them nearly invincible. To add to this, they have THE BEST escape ability among all 4 class; well the two classes that have them sorcs and Nbs.

No class should have all three mechanics. If a class is going to be a glass cannon, they shouldn't be able to have almost perfect invincibility. To make up for their weakness, they have the escape skill, just as NBs do. Templars and DKs do not have escape abilities because these two classes have the best survivablity.

It really isn't a hard concept to understand. Make all damage shields scale off health and the issue of the "overpowered" sorc will be over in PvP.

As it stands now, sorcs do not have to choose between survivablity or damage; which is broken in my opinion. The guilty people know who they are and without a doubt will cry about how they "think" it is balanced. When you see a v14 sorc in PvP with 14-15k health you know all they are doing is stacking max magicka and spell power.

All classes need to be re balanced and many skills adjusted/fixed. For example, Templars have six skills that are broken in PvP that is over 1/3 of our class skills.

in re to a Templar

im thinking that IF I had one-- Id go full health, use regen drinks get my healthpool to 30K-60K and just use blazing shield, heavy atk, degeneration/stucured entropy, and radiant beam morphs and reap the kills=)

so lets see--- thats a 10 to 20k damage absorber that is going to explode for similar of damage, then beam then down to earth in radiant fashion. That seems alot better than hardened ward=)

so the point is that every class can do something with their class to seem OP.

ssewallb14_ESO

Flaminir wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

OP needs to remove PVE from the thread title as it was obviously only added in to keep thread in general section and not PVP where it belongs, (why don't the mods see this?)

Flaminir wrote: »

The OP lost all credibility the second they said Sorc's were OP in PvE.

Just thought I'd point out that a mod was the one who came up with the thread title. In fact, it even says so in the first post...

Title perhaps.... but they were only repeating what the OP actually wrote in like the 1st line of their post, where they explicitly stated that Sorcs were OP in both PvP & PvE.

Thanks but the title and post was changed by the moderator

Hmmm.... well in that case that's worrying if the mods added that info in & you didn't write something to that effect.

So are you saying that you DON'T think they are OP in PvE?

The "extremely overpowered in PvP and pve right now" bit was there before the mod edit.

ThisOnePosts

Don't mind me, I'm just looking for the "LOL" button.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Well I would like to see how op sorc are with out there shield stacking. Then again I like to see how OP players think they are are with out shield stacking be sorc DK temp NB nord dunmer altemr orc imperial and so on.

JD2013

No. They are not.

Self heal? No.
Tanking Ability? No.
Light Armour the best armour? Hmmmmm ... No.

Cystal Fragments? You can see it coming. Block or get out of the way.
Overload? Can you not move?
Storm Atronach? Easy to avoid.
Daedric Mines? Easy to see and avoid.

I think I have made my point.

pugyourself

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Just as the title states, sorcerers are extremely overpowered in PvP and pve right now.

If they changed around a couple skills they would be more in balance with the rest of the classes.

Ball of lightning needs to be nerfed. A sorc with endless magicka can simply run away from EVERY fight
My suggestion would be to halve the radius of the escape from 20m to 10m.

Nerf the class based shield conjured ward. It grants too much of a damage shield and can be stacked with other shields
Maybe cut it back to around a 7k damage shield not a 10k+

Crystal fragments does way too much damage and on top of that it is a stun
I can get crystal frags right now to hit for 20k + with the correct sets and buffs up on a target

Powered overload shouldn't be able to be charged up to 1000 then endlessly spammed for 12k non crit and 20k+ critical hits

These are my suggestions.

I currently run a sorc and a dk at v14 and the sorcerer is a lot better than my dk

[Moderator Note: Edited title to better align with the discussion]

I think it's high time for separate skill lines for PVP and PVE. Sorcs have been nerfed into Oblivion to the point that they are the red-headed step children of PVE. DKs and Templars are WAY OP and should be nerfed in PVE.

Edit: Or, separate the PVP and PVE skill lines so we can stop with all the nerf calls (instead of learning to play) from people who get wrecked in PVP.

Hypertionb14_ESO

NCML wrote: »

So it's ok to that a DK can spam dragons blood, but a Sorc can't spam a shield? I disagree. If anything, NB is just underpowered because they have no spammable emergency heal and no shield. The other classes seem to all have the ability to survive, be it reflective scales and dragon blood spam, or while stacking and bolting away. All I see here is someone wanting easy kills at other players expense.

they have Cloak.. most cases thats plenty.. Mage builds can Healing ward and Melee builds can Rally, then use cloak to get away for full heal.

k2blader

For your posting etiquette, may I direct you to this useful thread:

How to blame sorcs.

pugyourself

Also, 452 results for "Sorcs Overpowered" below. This thread feels like a duplicate.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?adv=&search=sorcs+overpowered

Mumnoch

ZOS_ArtG wrote: »

After revisiting the intent of this thread, it looks like our earlier redirect was not a close enough match to warrant closure of this thread as a duplicate. Our apologies for any confusion/inconvenience this may have caused. In addition to reopening this thread, we've edited the title so that it more accurately reflects the topics being discussed in the thread. Feel free to join the PVP discussion for adding your thoughts on a successful balance to Sorcerers within Cyrodiil!

We've also removed a number of comments that were violations of our Code of Conduct regarding Trolling and Baiting. Please be aware that we expect all discussions on our forums to be constructive and civil and that we do not tolerate behavior that is not in line with our rules. Thank you for understanding.

We get you guys don't really care about Sorcs...however the OP is baiting the community with outlandish comment's like "Sorc's are OP in PVE". He doesn't even back up his statements in any way while numerous other people have posted logs/video's showing how much weaker the Sorc is compared to the other classes while also being Toggle dependent.

It's like the pot calling the kettle black...