5 Reasons Why Removal of Forward Camps Will Save PvP in ESO

Insurrektion · November 2014

orobferb16_ESO wrote: »

What you think guys about heavy armor ?
I mean now death is important, so if you survive a bit longer, you have more chances to get reinforcements, so maybe using heavy armor is an option, I dont know maybe is just something to test.

That is a double edged sword. If the enemy dies faster they will be gone longer.

Insurrektion · November 2014

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

@c0rp Siege damage vs. Players and Walls/Doors are next on the list to look into after the dust of Forward Camps settles. As I'm sure everyone in this thread and the Alliance War thread knows as a whole, moving one piece in the jenga castle of Cyrodiil isn't as easy as it always sounds

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Respectfully.

To take the Jenga castle further one cannot move one piece at a time. If you pull 1 block 4 other blocks will pull with it. An obvious block that will move with the camp block is soul gem requirements. But those were not accounted for. Another obvious block will be the shift in bursting down keeps while unattended. This is already happening. Players are maximizing their push because they know there is no room for error. More keeps are flipping without any PvP even occurring in them.

To take 1 block at a time is to guinea pig the player base. Whatever adverse effects occur in each test we must suffer and experience them until the next update. What we want is for you guys to say "If I pull this block what other blocks will likely come with it". Then mitigate those blocks that are probable in conjunction with the block you want to pull. For example...

* Increase the drop rate of soul gems in the pvp reward mail. You can even make them Cyrodiil only if need be.
* Increase the health of keeps
* increase the keep flag timer
* Allow a rezer to consume the corpses soul gems

All that could have been done ahead of time to clear the dust of FC removal quicker. If you take a look at the FC camp removal threads from way back a lot of us were okay with their removal so long as there were mitigating conditions, others had ideas in which camps could be nerfed. There were no mitigating conditions in 1.5 just a flat removal.

To demolish a building one has to study it's plan and have an expert put explosives at the right points so that it crumples straight down. Here I feel like we whacked it with a hammer under the expectation that we can just fix any damage the falling building causes to the surrounding neighborhood later. We players are the people that live in that neighborhood.

Where do you get your weed?

Telel · November 2014

Okay got rid of my headache with some spicy salsa and manged to get in on a PUG on Haderus for a push on KC. Apparently being known as the POTion dealer has benefits.

Long story short the siege dynamic was more drawn out, and definitely rewarded even the minor amount of organization we had. Having rezzers was also of benefit as the handful of pacters defending managed to down some folks as they chased down NPCs.

High points was probably the 15 minutes siege duel we had as the defenders manned the inner keep and both sides tried to burn out the siege of the other side as healers scrambled about avoiding snipers.

Though chasing three guards around as a werewolf was kind of fun too.

So my opinion overall is slightly improved but I realize now that my time as a solo trouble shooter and scout is pretty much done. I'm going to have to be in a wall of bodies from now on in order to do much of anything unless I drastically rebuild myself as an obnoxious gankblade.

No more long days sneaking into the Pact AP farms and sniping them off their siege before I get run down by four DKs.

Poxheart · November 2014

Telel wrote: »

... unless I drastically rebuild myself as an obnoxious gankblade.

My gankblade spec was broken by this patch. I think others were as well. Trying to develop a new spec with my buddies, but it's going to take time.

GreyPilgrim · November 2014

Poxheart wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

... unless I drastically rebuild myself as an obnoxious gankblade.

My gankblade spec was broken by this patch. I think others were as well. Trying to develop a new spec with my buddies, but it's going to take time.

I also think its ironic that this build is considered 'obnoxious' when its one of the few builds that can pop against a DK running reflect and taking on 20 people. I always found gankblade most useful for supporting other builds in large scale battles, rather than trying to sneak in cheap kills against solo players.

I wonder if groups will actually miss our DPS now....

Tintinabula · November 2014

so yea..even people who are fine with it are admitting they're having to totally rebuild their char and rotations...

This is a RIFT ackward bass way of forcing your client base to respec every month in order to keep them a little longer and draw out their sub.

VileIntent · November 2014

kaer426 wrote: »

The main reason I am wary/disgruntled about the flat out removal of the FC's is the increased amount of non-pvp time.
I want to pvp. I would like action, it is a game after all.
This update did not make anything more "exhilarating" imo, it made Cyrodiil incredibly more dull.

Frequent horse rides and waiting around Keeps to move out as a group, is how we will be spending most of our time; not actually fighting anyone.

Also the average players AP/hr just dropped quite a bit, the pvp ranks grind just got real-er.
I would like to hear everyone opinions of this in a week or two, when the FC stash's have run dry.
Right now I don't feel like we are seeing the full effect; DC took Emp on Thorn (NA) a few hours after the patch, and it was only possible through Forward Camps.

You just detailed every reason it needed to be removed. For starters Cyrodiil is huge and it was never seen due to porting. Any tactic would be made near useless due to how quickly players can respond.
Next AP should be earned, not farmed. A lot of the team are Dark Age of Camelot developers and players. When you went to pvp there and you saw someone's pvp rank if they were high rank they got a lot of respect. If there was a high rank enemy you thought twice about messing with them. call for a buddy or try to earn their respect by beating them. That doesn't happen here due to the god aweful GW2 (crap game) mentality.
Not everyone should be a Legate in pvp. It should be earned with long hard work and those people should be and will be respected by the community. *cough* name plates ZoS.

FC's also helped in Emperor swapping. Now an emperor can actualy logout and probably login tomorrow and still have his crown.
I agree some other tweaks can help improve things, but FC removal was a must and not telling US kept a great many people from stock piling them.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · November 2014

I often see people mentionning "I don't want to stay in a keep to defend".
And you hear that non sense in every game trying to implement strategic play on top of tactical play.

Here's the secret: The best defense is offense.

You're not defending by maning the wall but by keeping the pressure on that frontline. By keeping momentum and pushing ever forward towards their next base, you're never waiting.
If you get flanked or bypassed and they are attacking behind you, then start to use scouts. If you're not in an organized group, try to be those scouts sometimes and experiment with a new strategic role.

FluffiestOne · November 2014

Hi, My name is Fluffy, also known as better than you. If you are dying in pvp, you suck.

XoXo- The Worst Troll NA.

Lettigall · November 2014

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I often see people mentionning "I don't want to stay in a keep to defend".
And you hear that non sense in every game trying to implement strategic play on top of tactical play.

Here's the secret: The best defense is offense.

You're not defending by maning the wall but by keeping the pressure on that frontline. By keeping momentum and pushing ever forward towards their next base, you're never waiting.
If you get flanked or bypassed and they are attacking behind you, then start to use scouts. If you're not in an organized group, try to be those scouts sometimes and experiment with a new strategic role.

The best defense is offense- not anymore. If your keep is under attack trying to wipe siegers is way to risky. If you are wiped none will be able to res you and you have to raid(most likely sneak) back from another keep to help defend.

And while you ride enemies gonna res their players and most likely take the keep. Victory even more gonna depend from big trains

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · November 2014

Lettigall wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I often see people mentionning "I don't want to stay in a keep to defend".
And you hear that non sense in every game trying to implement strategic play on top of tactical play.

Here's the secret: The best defense is offense.

You're not defending by maning the wall but by keeping the pressure on that frontline. By keeping momentum and pushing ever forward towards their next base, you're never waiting.
If you get flanked or bypassed and they are attacking behind you, then start to use scouts. If you're not in an organized group, try to be those scouts sometimes and experiment with a new strategic role.

The best defense is offense- not anymore. If your keep is under attack trying to wipe siegers is way to risky. If you are wiped none will be able to res you and you have to raid(most likely sneak) back from another keep to help defend.

And while you ride enemies gonna res their players and most likely take the keep. Victory even more gonna depend from big trains

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

Lettigall · November 2014

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

And again you need organized trains for that. Random people sieging is free AP for organized group.

Wiping besiegers and pushing on to their keep was best defense. Now to do it you need be 100% that you succeed else you are *** and don't even bother to go back to that keep, prepare to defend next keep.

And to be always offense you need way more people then other 2 alliances or more organized groups.

And nightcap haters also are ***. When stacked FC will be used out only way to get emp or scrolls will be through nightcap.

Rylana · November 2014

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I often see people mentionning "I don't want to stay in a keep to defend".
And you hear that non sense in every game trying to implement strategic play on top of tactical play.

Here's the secret: The best defense is offense.

You're not defending by maning the wall but by keeping the pressure on that frontline. By keeping momentum and pushing ever forward towards their next base, you're never waiting.
If you get flanked or bypassed and they are attacking behind you, then start to use scouts. If you're not in an organized group, try to be those scouts sometimes and experiment with a new strategic role.

The best defense is offense- not anymore. If your keep is under attack trying to wipe siegers is way to risky. If you are wiped none will be able to res you and you have to raid(most likely sneak) back from another keep to help defend.

And while you ride enemies gonna res their players and most likely take the keep. Victory even more gonna depend from big trains

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

Overextending is an extremely poor strategy. I see it every single day in Thornblade. As soon as AD has gotten to Ash or BRK, they attempt to push Glade/Ales or Arrius/Chalman (or both at once)

Immediately Fare/BB/BM get hit (and usually by the third faction since they know those keeps are vulnerable), the whole faction ends up responding to that, Ash/BRK get lost almost at the same time, Fare ends up being the only home triangle keep standing because of the obsession with holding that one keep at all costs... and soon enough the entire faction collapses in on itself losing everything.

You MUST have both offense and defense on the field. You cant go all or nothing like that. All defense does not work, all offense does not work. You must have reserves holding keeps to prevent backcaps.

And FFS stop chasing the defense tick so much, all that does is push 50 people into one place, dilute the reward to pointless anyway, and leave something else on the field undefended.

Its no real wonder AD struggles without a camp to save them every time (i watched it happen at fare last night, if not for someone dropping a camp vs blue, we would have lost our final keep on the map, realize this strategy is doomed once all existing camps are gone)

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · November 2014

Lettigall wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

And again you need organized trains for that. Random people sieging is free AP for organized group.

And how is that a bad thing? One leader can herd cats and have a full group of randoms pretty easily and be effective. It is not hard to be organized.
If you insist on remaining solo, then you're playing the wrong game.

Also, you don't have to bum rush, you can regroup move at a pace where you make no mistake and know when to fall back/retreat. The point being to keep the fight away from your walls and closer to theirs.

Rylana wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I often see people mentionning "I don't want to stay in a keep to defend".
And you hear that non sense in every game trying to implement strategic play on top of tactical play.

Here's the secret: The best defense is offense.

You're not defending by maning the wall but by keeping the pressure on that frontline. By keeping momentum and pushing ever forward towards their next base, you're never waiting.
If you get flanked or bypassed and they are attacking behind you, then start to use scouts. If you're not in an organized group, try to be those scouts sometimes and experiment with a new strategic role.

The best defense is offense- not anymore. If your keep is under attack trying to wipe siegers is way to risky. If you are wiped none will be able to res you and you have to raid(most likely sneak) back from another keep to help defend.

And while you ride enemies gonna res their players and most likely take the keep. Victory even more gonna depend from big trains

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

Overextending is an extremely poor strategy. I see it every single day in Thornblade. As soon as AD has gotten to Ash or BRK, they attempt to push Glade/Ales or Arrius/Chalman (or both at once)

I'm not suggesting over extention. I'm saying don't guard the walls, move forward, pick a choke point and maintain pressure.
By bringing the fight in between keeps, you maintain a line of supply and a spot to fall back to if you are pushed. You give yourself breathing room in case you fail.Also, The longer you keep the transitus up, the stronger your front line is.

People act as if the keeps are the only features of the landscape, but the frontline doesn't have to be fought at objectives. Lay traps, harras, do something rather than just go where there are flags and wait/hope for a fight.
If you're maning walls, you have failed some place.

EDIT: My intial point was that those that feel they have to "man the wall" to defend are wrong. Sure before it was easy to bloodport at a keep when it got under attack, but now you have to actually consider each "lines" as a front and actively stay on it.
It requires basic force balancing, but it also means that you can have "reserve" groups backing up various fronts and keeping all of them in check.

diskiukas · November 2014

I won't quit , I will try to adjust. This is my first MMO that I ever played ( coming from Elder scrolls , never played COD or whatever name of that game is) and I got bitten by PVP bug very quickly. It was love from the first sight and sometimes I was even concerned that I was too obsessed with it.I sucked at first, then I tried do more research and started to get better. I am busy most of the time and I don't have 7-8 a day to play, but at least 2-4 hours a day , I would spend in Cyro. It was best fun in gaming that a had in 15 years of being a gamer. I like to fight, being in the thick of the action, going against the odds. Of course that means dying. I don't like to sit in the bushes and wait for someone to ride by or sit in the keep and type in the chat all day. The point is I don't have fun anymore. Yesterday was like this- log in into Cyro play a little, go back to PVE, come back to Cyro, see if something is going on, then go back to PVE again. I am glad for those who enjoy the change, because I understand that the game is made not only for me and there are different preferences, however this change is very bad for me personally.

Lettigall · November 2014

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

And again you need organized trains for that. Random people sieging is free AP for organized group.

And how is that a bad thing? One leader can herd cats and have a full group of randoms pretty easily and be effective. It is not hard to be organized.
If you insist on remaining solo, then you're playing the wrong game.

Also, you don't have to bum rush, you can regroup move at a pace where you make no mistake and know when to fall back/retreat. The point being to keep the fight away from your walls and closer to theirs.

Rylana wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Lettigall wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

I often see people mentionning "I don't want to stay in a keep to defend".
And you hear that non sense in every game trying to implement strategic play on top of tactical play.

Here's the secret: The best defense is offense.

You're not defending by maning the wall but by keeping the pressure on that frontline. By keeping momentum and pushing ever forward towards their next base, you're never waiting.
If you get flanked or bypassed and they are attacking behind you, then start to use scouts. If you're not in an organized group, try to be those scouts sometimes and experiment with a new strategic role.

The best defense is offense- not anymore. If your keep is under attack trying to wipe siegers is way to risky. If you are wiped none will be able to res you and you have to raid(most likely sneak) back from another keep to help defend.

And while you ride enemies gonna res their players and most likely take the keep. Victory even more gonna depend from big trains

Not what I meant.

The best defense is to be always the one sieging and keeping them behind their walls. Just don't wait for them to regroup and come back but push on them to the next keep. It's less grave to lose a fight in between two keeps rather than lose when you're already on your walls and the transitus network is already cut.

Overextending is an extremely poor strategy. I see it every single day in Thornblade. As soon as AD has gotten to Ash or BRK, they attempt to push Glade/Ales or Arrius/Chalman (or both at once)

I'm not suggesting over extention. I'm saying don't guard the walls, move forward, pick a choke point and maintain pressure.
By bringing the fight in between keeps, you maintain a line of supply and a spot to fall back to if you are pushed. You give yourself breathing room in case you fail.Also, The longer you keep the transitus up, the stronger your front line is.

People act as if the keeps are the only features of the landscape, but the frontline doesn't have to be fought at objectives. Lay traps, harras, do something rather than just go where there are flags and wait/hope for a fight.
If you're maning walls, you have failed some place.

EDIT: My intial point was that those that feel they have to "man the wall" to defend are wrong. Sure before it was easy to bloodport at a keep when it got under attack, but now you have to actually consider each "lines" as a front and actively stay on it.
It requires basic force balancing, but it also means that you can have "reserve" groups backing up various fronts and keeping all of them in check.

Pushing onwards without worrying about defense I seen only in nightcaps and in 2vs1 fights. In campaigns with even number of players it's nearly impossible to be in offense all the time.

Maybe I'm wrong but seems your campaign was buffing campaign where your alliance outnumbered all.

And about manning walls do you even know how good is when your train is supported from walls with fire balistas and meat bags. Farm enemies at their siege weapons and then you can safely run back to your walls knowing that healers on walls keep you alive.

Manning walls at keeps where aren't even fighting saved many times us and enemies from ninja cap.

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

I'm doing dungeons for the first time, Cheers Zenimax!

Maulkin · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I'm doing dungeons for the first time, Cheers Zenimax!

I logged in last night. For the first time probably since launch everyone I know from K.O.C, SWAT and Banana Squad was in PvE. Them OP undaunted passives need to be got, I suppose.

I logged in later that night in Thornblade to cleanse my palate from that awful PvE after-taste. 2.5 hrs of PvP and not a single keep flipped. Just skirmishes in the middle of knowhere, a lot of riding, a lot of stealthed archers corpses to walk over on your way to a meaningful fight. Just, boring

Davadin · November 2014

Spent a good few hours last night where everybody's either 3 bars or locked (except DC went 2 bars for a bit before Sypher showed up).

There were HUGE battles (like 50vs30) in Faregyl where we tried to push AD after destroying Alessia (but then we got obliterated in Fareg...), then we moved to Chal to fight DC (and good ole' unkillable Sypher - i swear it's like he's cheating lol) going back n forth between Bleakers and Chalman. There were MANY people there too. Wall got breached. Repaired. 8-10 sieges per side.

It's BIG battles with NO (i *** you not) zergs to be seen. Yes, I see WAVES of people pouring out like a *** bee hive, yes, some still use batswarm or impulse, but no stand-in-single-spot-zerging.

I. Am. LOVING this new PvP.

Thanks, @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

To all who said PvP is dead, go try NA's Thornblade or wait a couple weeks until people gets bored with PvE's new content.

Maulkin · November 2014

Davadin wrote: »

Spent a good few hours last night where everybody's either 3 bars or locked (except DC went 2 bars for a bit before Sypher showed up).

There were HUGE battles (like 50vs30) in Faregyl where we tried to push AD after destroying Alessia (but then we got obliterated in Fareg...), then we moved to Chal to fight DC (and good ole' unkillable Sypher - i swear it's like he's cheating lol) going back n forth between Bleakers and Chalman. There were MANY people there too. Wall got breached. Repaired. 8-10 sieges per side.

It's BIG battles with NO (i *** you not) zergs to be seen. Yes, I see WAVES of people pouring out like a *** bee hive, yes, some still use batswarm or impulse, but no stand-in-single-spot-zerging.

I. Am. LOVING this new PvP.

Thanks, @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

To all who said PvP is dead, go try NA's Thornblade or wait a couple weeks until people gets bored with PvE's new content.

I'll gladly give it a couple of weeks, probably way more than that, but I fully expect things to turn out very differently from the way you do.

Like we said, many of the large guilds are grinding Undaunted passives. Hence their absence from the battlefield. When that's done expect them to come back with a vengeance.

Organised groups of 20+ normally have a minimum of 2/5 skills on the primary bar as synergies. You can guess how much more survivability and damage sustain they will have with the Undaunted Command passive.

Also the lack of forward camps means they won't have a sea of solo players spawning nearby and constantly pecking at their sides and rear. One sweep of the area and the place will be filled with little white crosses.

Without oils and with AoE caps still in place, the only thing that can stop a large group, is another large group.

Also regarding:

Davadin wrote: »

It's BIG battles with NO (i *** you not) zergs to be seen. Yes, I see WAVES of people pouring out like a *** bee hive, yes, some still use batswarm or impulse, but no stand-in-single-spot-zerging.

I know what you're trying to say, but you got this the other way round. Waves of people pouring out like a beehive is the definition of a zerg.

Zerg:
Originates from Blizzard's game Starcraft where zerg were one of 3 playable races, aliens like appeareance, zerg were characterized by using large numbers of weak units to swarm the enemy,

An organised group with uniform appearances, TeamSpeak communication , synergistic play and high ranked players, is not a zerg. Call it an AoE ball, a stacked group, an AoE squad, whatever. A zerg, it's not.

Feel free to hate the play-style, just don't call it sth it isn't.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · November 2014

Thanks a bunch for the feedback in here gang! There is still work to do in Cyrodiil and the suggestions/notations here are being taken into account for what's next as well as across the boards in general.

Lfehova · November 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Thanks a bunch for the feedback in here gang! There is still work to do in Cyrodiil and the suggestions/notations here are being taken into account for what's next as well as across the boards in general.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and let all of us know you're reading

ZOS_BrianWheeler · November 2014

I read a bunch....

Ifthir_ESO · November 2014

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ just tell @ZOS_MattFiror‌ thats its time for some pvp love

Tenret · November 2014

Or kill it, or just dont change a lot

I just remember at the start of the game, when theres not a lot of FCs, 2 things

One: the rhythm of Cyrodill was just terrible and boring, too much horse

Two: the battles where just a bit better, but maybe only because the blob wasn't fully developped yet

So the changes are for better, who knowns?

I only know one sure thing and is that I will be much less tolerant with the game if the crash, desincronization, freeze, lag deaths make me wait 5m more after one to see some action

Lettigall · November 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

I read a bunch....

May I suggest that you try to play PvP?

Lfehova · November 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

I read a bunch....

Haha well played wheeler.

Davadin · November 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Spent a good few hours last night where everybody's either 3 bars or locked (except DC went 2 bars for a bit before Sypher showed up).

There were HUGE battles (like 50vs30) in Faregyl where we tried to push AD after destroying Alessia (but then we got obliterated in Fareg...), then we moved to Chal to fight DC (and good ole' unkillable Sypher - i swear it's like he's cheating lol) going back n forth between Bleakers and Chalman. There were MANY people there too. Wall got breached. Repaired. 8-10 sieges per side.

It's BIG battles with NO (i *** you not) zergs to be seen. Yes, I see WAVES of people pouring out like a *** bee hive, yes, some still use batswarm or impulse, but no stand-in-single-spot-zerging.

I. Am. LOVING this new PvP.

Thanks, @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

To all who said PvP is dead, go try NA's Thornblade or wait a couple weeks until people gets bored with PvE's new content.

I'll gladly give it a couple of weeks, probably way more than that, but I fully expect things to turn out very differently from the way you do.

Like we said, many of the large guilds are grinding Undaunted passives. Hence their absence from the battlefield. When that's done expect them to come back with a vengeance.

Organised groups of 20+ normally have a minimum of 2/5 skills on the primary bar as synergies. You can guess how much more survivability and damage sustain they will have with the Undaunted Command passive.

Also the lack of forward camps means they won't have a sea of solo players spawning nearby and constantly pecking at their sides and rear. One sweep of the area and the place will be filled with little white crosses.

Without oils and with AoE caps still in place, the only thing that can stop a large group, is another large group.

Also regarding:

Davadin wrote: »

It's BIG battles with NO (i *** you not) zergs to be seen. Yes, I see WAVES of people pouring out like a *** bee hive, yes, some still use batswarm or impulse, but no stand-in-single-spot-zerging.

I know what you're trying to say, but you got this the other way round. Waves of people pouring out like a beehive is the definition of a zerg.

Zerg:
Originates from Blizzard's game Starcraft where zerg were one of 3 playable races, aliens like appeareance, zerg were characterized by using large numbers of weak units to swarm the enemy,

An organised group with uniform appearances, TeamSpeak communication , synergistic play and high ranked players, is not a zerg. Call it an AoE ball, a stacked group, an AoE squad, whatever. A zerg, it's not.

Feel free to hate the play-style, just don't call it sth it isn't.

Fair enough.

I stand corrected. I was afraid of the "AoE ball" mentality, but I see none.

Zerg, as you described it, was clear and present and I welcome it with open arms. (although, you guys tend to electrocute and shoot arrow first...)

Yes, I would wait for couple weeks until people get off their Undaunted stuff. Plus, I need to level max VR too...

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

I read a bunch....

Thanks!

Now how about playing it... not PTS or some private QA servers... but come join us at the biggest fish in the sea: NA Thornblade and experience it yourself.

Sypher · November 2014

Davadin wrote: »

Spent a good few hours last night where everybody's either 3 bars or locked (except DC went 2 bars for a bit before Sypher showed up).

There were HUGE battles (like 50vs30) in Faregyl where we tried to push AD after destroying Alessia (but then we got obliterated in Fareg...), then we moved to Chal to fight DC (and good ole' unkillable Sypher - i swear it's like he's cheating lol) going back n forth between Bleakers and Chalman. There were MANY people there too. Wall got breached. Repaired. 8-10 sieges per side.

Those were some great fights! Going back and forth like that wouldn't be possible with forward camps and it certainly spreads the zergs out which is great for lag and results in better combat.

See you on the battlefield!

driosketch · November 2014

Interestingly, on DC's side at least, I saw most players not wait for Defense Ticks. They were small of course, but with the rubber banding back and forth between Bleakers and Chal I managed to pick up a few.

And people are battle rezzing. I filled a dozen grand soul gems at start, figured I'd be out by the first big battle only to have 7 still at the end of the night. I couldn't get to corpses fast enough before someone was already taking care of it.