People are griefing at dye station with cone heals

Phinix1 · August 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If i have to attack some one ... No one can force me...

Say said flagged person follows me out into the wild hoping around me just bouncing around. They have basically forced me into not doing anything or risk hitting them Or they just hide somewhere and jump out. Keep in mind there is no tab target. My attacks go in a straight line or hit whatever is in front of me. A flagged person most certainly can force me to attack them. And what about healing? People healing flagged people most certainly should be flagged. But i cant aim my heals they go where ever they want.

Rift figured this out pretty easily. You have an option toggle to allow auto-flagging. If enabled, your heals will hit anyone around you, including friendly people flagged PVP, and automatically flag you in order to heal them.

If disabled, your heals will heal any friendly around you, but do nothing to the flagged person. Same with attacks. It would be like swinging at someone's pet monkey. Nothing happens.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If i have to attack some one ... No one can force me...

Say said flagged person follows me out into the wild hoping around me just bouncing around. They have basically forced me into not doing anything or risk hitting them Or they just hide somewhere and jump out. Keep in mind there is no tab target. My attacks go in a straight line or hit whatever is in front of me. A flagged person most certainly can force me to attack them. And what about healing? People healing flagged people most certainly should be flagged. But i cant aim my heals they go where ever they want.

Rift figured this out pretty easily. You have an option toggle to allow auto-flagging. If enabled, your heals will hit anyone around you, including friendly people flagged PVP, and automatically flag you in order to heal them.

If disabled, your heals will heal any friendly around you, but do nothing to the flagged person. Same with attacks. It would be like swinging at someone's pet monkey. Nothing happens.

Agreed. Lots of games have this feature, where you cant hit or heal flagged players unless you turn on a specific option. But that is the basic point . When no one from ZOS mentions these things, people worry.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

If i have to attack some one ... No one can force me...

Say said flagged person follows me out into the wild hoping around me just bouncing around. They have basically forced me into not doing anything or risk hitting them Or they just hide somewhere and jump out. Keep in mind there is no tab target. My attacks go in a straight line or hit whatever is in front of me. A flagged person most certainly can force me to attack them. And what about healing? People healing flagged people most certainly should be flagged. But i cant aim my heals they go where ever they want.

Rift figured this out pretty easily. You have an option toggle to allow auto-flagging. If enabled, your heals will hit anyone around you, including friendly people flagged PVP, and automatically flag you in order to heal them.

If disabled, your heals will heal any friendly around you, but do nothing to the flagged person. Same with attacks. It would be like swinging at someone's pet monkey. Nothing happens.

Agreed. Lots of games have this feature, where you cant hit or heal flagged players unless you turn on a specific option. But that is the basic point . When no one from ZOS mentions these things, people worry.

I guess my other point would be, if someone were to ask you if someone would find a way to grief others using the dye system you would probably say no. I mean people are just changing the color of their armor. And yet people dis find a way. So to say people wont find a way using a much more complex justice system is almost comical. One way or another.

Reskal · August 2014

The threadopener has 7 Agrees and 15(!) lol for his thread so far. This says much about the community and this is the only huge bug, feature and problem the devs cannot handle: to sort out the scum.
But would they want to lose 66% of their customers ?
Such a good game, what graphics, what sound, what stories but what a minus to share it with such people.
They are the reason sandboxing came up.
And they are the reason mmo will become more and more single player games shared with others, where you isolated and therefore not griefable.

Hopefully the good part of the community is exposing the scumpeople in general chat and reporting them, until they stop or gone.

Phinix1 · August 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess my other point would be, if someone were to ask you if someone would find a way to grief others using the dye system you would probably say no. I mean people are just changing the color of their armor. And yet people dis find a way. So to say people wont find a way using a much more complex justice system is almost comical. One way or another.

Today I followed a guy around for probably 5 minutes just wildly swinging my daggers at his disgustingly obnoxious pet monkey. I honestly believe that anyone who uses that pet anywhere is automatically a troll and only using them to annoy other people, because ZOS in their infinite wisdom gave them the most annoying sounds and animation possible.

I guess you could say I was griefing him. But I'd just had enough! Every single bank, every public place, trolls with that stupid %^&$# monkey pet. I want to kill them all! Every one I see in the world that isn't a pet, I kill.

Sometimes I'll sit there in a place with lots like in Grahtwood and slaughter dozens of them, and then do it again as they respawn. I hate them that much!

Hard to do much about griefers when ZOS does it to their own customers! XD

ItsMeToo · August 2014

What about a group of flagged people that come into the bank and starts fighting the guards? This would be very disruptive to people who don't want this kind of behavior in the bank.

People running all over the place fighting and casting spells, getting in your way as you try to talk to the bank employees and do transactions.

Let's keep PvP out of buildings and away from quest givers and merchants.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess my other point would be, if someone were to ask you if someone would find a way to grief others using the dye system you would probably say no. I mean people are just changing the color of their armor. And yet people dis find a way. So to say people wont find a way using a much more complex justice system is almost comical. One way or another.

Today I followed a guy around for probably 5 minutes just wildly swinging my daggers at his disgustingly obnoxious pet monkey. I honestly believe that anyone who uses that pet anywhere is automatically a troll and only using them to annoy other people, because ZOS in their infinite wisdom gave them the most annoying sounds and animation possible.

I guess you could say I was griefing him. But I'd just had enough! Every single bank, every public place, trolls with that stupid %^&$# monkey pet. I want to kill them all! Every one I see in the world that isn't a pet, I kill.

Sometimes I'll sit there in a place with lots like in Grahtwood and slaughter dozens of them, and then do it again as they respawn. I hate them that much!

Hard to do much about griefers when ZOS does it to their own customers! XD

Did you at least yell 'Die Monkey scum!' While you were doing it?

Esha76 · August 2014

Audigy wrote: »

That said, I was only flying over the thread here and I think some people go too far here if they accuse others of being abused as a child etc. These insults are not acceptable and people doing those are not any better than those who cast a spell in town....

...Besides that, insulting other people is against the TOS and will result in a punishment so I would advice to just stay cool and leave the RL flames at home (directed at those who used insults so far)

No one ever accused anyone of being abused as a child. A particular individual claimed a history from being beaten to having received death threats in the past, and people responded to those claims. As a professional in the behavioral and mental health field, assuming these allegations were true, I can assure you this person’s claims most certainly do qualify as being abused. And from the sounds of it, not just as a child. Again, if it’s all true, this person clearly needs to be in counseling to deal with these issues rather than airing them in some video game forum.

If people are going to act a certain way in public (such as a forum or griefing in a MMO), regardless of their history, they are then going to be treated a certain way. Whether it is brash in-the-face insulting responses to their behavior, or snide condescending passive aggressive arrogant remarks… it’s all rather much the same in the end. As you feel the need to address people in this thread that not everyone is griefing, and people are just interacting in the world, not everything is an insult either. Some comments are loud wake up calls some individuals really need to hear for their own good.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2014

Won't all these dyes all wash off in the rain in any case?

You can dye your blouse and dress; you can dye your dressing gown; but surely you have to paint armour...

Khami · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Today I followed a guy around for probably 5 minutes just wildly swinging my daggers at his disgustingly obnoxious pet monkey. I honestly believe that anyone who uses that pet anywhere is automatically a troll and only using them to annoy other people, because ZOS in their infinite wisdom gave them the most annoying sounds and animation possible.

The monkey isn't annoying, but the pig is.

AngryNord · August 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I guess my other point would be, if someone were to ask you if someone would find a way to grief others using the dye system you would probably say no. I mean people are just changing the color of their armor. And yet people dis find a way. So to say people wont find a way using a much more complex justice system is almost comical. One way or another.

Today I followed a guy around for probably 5 minutes just wildly swinging my daggers at his disgustingly obnoxious pet monkey. I honestly believe that anyone who uses that pet anywhere is automatically a troll and only using them to annoy other people, because ZOS in their infinite wisdom gave them the most annoying sounds and animation possible.

I guess you could say I was griefing him. But I'd just had enough! Every single bank, every public place, trolls with that stupid %^&$# monkey pet. I want to kill them all! Every one I see in the world that isn't a pet, I kill.

Sometimes I'll sit there in a place with lots like in Grahtwood and slaughter dozens of them, and then do it again as they respawn. I hate them that much!

Hard to do much about griefers when ZOS does it to their own customers! XD

Do that to me and I'll fart in your general direction! :P

Varicite · August 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I can't believe that it took all of 5 minutes for the psychopaths to figure out how to grief dye stations. Dye stations! What could be innocuous than that?! And then 5 minutes later, they were on their little psychopath bat phone network telling all the other griefers about it. And 5 minutes after that, every last one of them had crawled out of their cave and they were at every dye station in Tamriel. Giggling away behind their keyboards like Beavis & Butthead.

Unbelievable. It just boggles the mind how some people's brains work. :-(

If there is one thing these dye stations prove , is that people will try to grief others over anything.

Hope zen learns that this is how playerbase behaves and start to listen to the many threads talking about possible grief issues on their new systems.

Yep, the justice system will be a mess.

I'm not sure how you could use the Justice system to grief, though I'm sure ways will be found if it's at all possible.

Just logically speaking though, you can't be attacked unless you choose to kill NPCs and steal items enough to gain enough notoriety to flag yourself. It's literally your own choice to participate and it doesn't sound as though anyone can force you to.

How can it be griefing when you are actively inviting others to attack you?

Because you don't actually know how it is implemented. Do i have to go somewhere to sign up to be able to pvp others who have broken the law? If not and all i have to do os attack someone to start it, then yea it is very open to griefing. Or they have already said bankers are attackable, you think it is griefing when you cant dye your armor a pretty color, what happens when you cant get into your bank? Although i suppose the argument could be made that attacking the banker over and over isn't griefing since it was designed that way.

Honestly not trying to be rude but if you cant think of several ways the justice system can be exploited just off the top of your head, you have no experience in open world pvp or you aren't trying very hard. I mean the dye system grief going on now is actually something most people would not think of, people have had years upon years of ways to come up with ways to exploit open world pvp. Now ESO may not fall into that trap. But their record is a little shaky and that is why people worry.

To be fair, the Justice system details that we have are pretty much exactly as I described.

I don't know how it will be implemented, true, but I do know a few basic things about it:

Bankers are attackable, but unkillable, and they've said it would be implemented in such a way that wouldn't disrupt other players. So, kinda lame if you're trying to get a rise out of people, but great if you don't feel like waiting for your bank to respawn.

You don't have to sign up to pvp other people, when their bounty becomes high enough, they will automatically be flagged for you to kill. You don't just go from 0 notoriety to killable.

Now, it's true, I do not know if killing a random npc is enough to flag you. I don't know if hitting them once or twice is enough. You may need to go on a rampage, who knows.

Either way, if YOU have to attack someone, nobody can force you to do so. Again, you can't be griefed by something that you have 100% control over.

The "several" ways that you just mentioned have all been covered already. Most of these just sound like Chicken Little speculation or simple paranoia.

Like I said, if it can be used to grief, I'm sure it will, but at first glance it doesn't seem like it will be set up to be easily exploited. More than anything, it sounds like it's up to the player whether they want to participate or not.

If i have to attack some one ... No one can force me...

Say said flagged person follows me out into the wild hoping around me just bouncing around. They have basically forced me into not doing anything or risk hitting them Or they just hide somewhere and jump out. Keep in mind there is no tab target. My attacks go in a straight line or hit whatever is in front of me. A flagged person most certainly can force me to attack them. And what about healing? People healing flagged people most certainly should be flagged. But i cant aim my heals they go where ever they want.

Then.. kill them? Jumping around isn't exactly what I'd call griefing, though it's kind of asinine. Still, it's not as though you don't have any recourse (unlike the dye griefing situation).

Also, there IS a tab target. You just hit... tab. Voila.

As for heals, that remains to be seen obviously, as we don't have all of the details regarding the system just yet. Instead of simply assuming everything will terrible doom and gloom, why not wait until there's more information and try to help prevent exploitation?

/shrug

ItsMeToo wrote: »

What about a group of flagged people that come into the bank and starts fighting the guards? This would be very disruptive to people who don't want this kind of behavior in the bank.

People running all over the place fighting and casting spells, getting in your way as you try to talk to the bank employees and do transactions.

Let's keep PvP out of buildings and away from quest givers and merchants.

Again, you can't kill the quest givers and bankers, etc. They are already taking measures to prevent other players from disrupting you.

As for casting spells and such, they already do this. Has this stopped you from banking up until now? <.<

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · August 2014

when justice system comes if they stop combat in buildings like banks etc, anytime I am losing I am going to run into the bank and heal up and then go back out, and so will everyone else in a never-ending cycle that will drive your opponent crazy.

I know this will be a problem because the last pvp game I was in had these peace rooms that allowed no combat whatsoever. It was the most infuriating thing ever to have someone flee to one of those when you had them dead to rights.

ZOS_TristanK · August 2014

Hi again, folks. We are going though this thread to remove an off-topic conversation. As we said before, we encourage you all to report anyone who is being very disruptive to you in-game experience so that our Support Team can look into it, but you are welcome to continue the conversation here as long as it stays focused and on track.

That said, we ask that all posters refrain from name-calling and blanket statements about other players. People have different gameplay styles and preferences, and we ask that our posters not call these behaviors out in a negative, generalizing way.

Zershar_Vemod · August 2014

I'm not even surprised at this point....

kieso · August 2014

If you're VR level you can go to a station in those areas they're pretty empty.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Varicite wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I can't believe that it took all of 5 minutes for the psychopaths to figure out how to grief dye stations. Dye stations! What could be innocuous than that?! And then 5 minutes later, they were on their little psychopath bat phone network telling all the other griefers about it. And 5 minutes after that, every last one of them had crawled out of their cave and they were at every dye station in Tamriel. Giggling away behind their keyboards like Beavis & Butthead.

Unbelievable. It just boggles the mind how some people's brains work. :-(

If there is one thing these dye stations prove , is that people will try to grief others over anything.

Hope zen learns that this is how playerbase behaves and start to listen to the many threads talking about possible grief issues on their new systems.

Yep, the justice system will be a mess.

I'm not sure how you could use the Justice system to grief, though I'm sure ways will be found if it's at all possible.

Just logically speaking though, you can't be attacked unless you choose to kill NPCs and steal items enough to gain enough notoriety to flag yourself. It's literally your own choice to participate and it doesn't sound as though anyone can force you to.

How can it be griefing when you are actively inviting others to attack you?

Because you don't actually know how it is implemented. Do i have to go somewhere to sign up to be able to pvp others who have broken the law? If not and all i have to do os attack someone to start it, then yea it is very open to griefing. Or they have already said bankers are attackable, you think it is griefing when you cant dye your armor a pretty color, what happens when you cant get into your bank? Although i suppose the argument could be made that attacking the banker over and over isn't griefing since it was designed that way.

Honestly not trying to be rude but if you cant think of several ways the justice system can be exploited just off the top of your head, you have no experience in open world pvp or you aren't trying very hard. I mean the dye system grief going on now is actually something most people would not think of, people have had years upon years of ways to come up with ways to exploit open world pvp. Now ESO may not fall into that trap. But their record is a little shaky and that is why people worry.

To be fair, the Justice system details that we have are pretty much exactly as I described.

I don't know how it will be implemented, true, but I do know a few basic things about it:

Bankers are attackable, but unkillable, and they've said it would be implemented in such a way that wouldn't disrupt other players. So, kinda lame if you're trying to get a rise out of people, but great if you don't feel like waiting for your bank to respawn.

You don't have to sign up to pvp other people, when their bounty becomes high enough, they will automatically be flagged for you to kill. You don't just go from 0 notoriety to killable.

Now, it's true, I do not know if killing a random npc is enough to flag you. I don't know if hitting them once or twice is enough. You may need to go on a rampage, who knows.

Either way, if YOU have to attack someone, nobody can force you to do so. Again, you can't be griefed by something that you have 100% control over.

The "several" ways that you just mentioned have all been covered already. Most of these just sound like Chicken Little speculation or simple paranoia.

Like I said, if it can be used to grief, I'm sure it will, but at first glance it doesn't seem like it will be set up to be easily exploited. More than anything, it sounds like it's up to the player whether they want to participate or not.

If i have to attack some one ... No one can force me...

Say said flagged person follows me out into the wild hoping around me just bouncing around. They have basically forced me into not doing anything or risk hitting them Or they just hide somewhere and jump out. Keep in mind there is no tab target. My attacks go in a straight line or hit whatever is in front of me. A flagged person most certainly can force me to attack them. And what about healing? People healing flagged people most certainly should be flagged. But i cant aim my heals they go where ever they want.

Then.. kill them? Jumping around isn't exactly what I'd call griefing, though it's kind of asinine. Still, it's not as though you don't have any recourse (unlike the dye griefing situation).

Also, there IS a tab target. You just hit... tab. Voila.

As for heals, that remains to be seen obviously, as we don't have all of the details regarding the system just yet. Instead of simply assuming everything will terrible doom and gloom, why not wait until there's more information and try to help prevent exploitation?

/shrug

ItsMeToo wrote: »

What about a group of flagged people that come into the bank and starts fighting the guards? This would be very disruptive to people who don't want this kind of behavior in the bank.

People running all over the place fighting and casting spells, getting in your way as you try to talk to the bank employees and do transactions.

Let's keep PvP out of buildings and away from quest givers and merchants.

Again, you can't kill the quest givers and bankers, etc. They are already taking measures to prevent other players from disrupting you.

As for casting spells and such, they already do this. Has this stopped you from banking up until now? <.<

Ok honest question. Why is it griefing when someone makes my armor a strange color. I can go somewhere else and dye. But it isn't griefing when someone can force me into a pvp situation i didn't want to be in. And again you missed the point. Tab targeting doesn't guarantee i will hit that target . If anyone or anything gets between us, i will hit them instead.

And you say just kill them? If there is no way to prevent this sort of thing here is what you will have. Billy is out doing his PvE feeling cool soloing hos favorite world boss. He is almost dead but so is the boss. He comes joe, pvp flagged. He strolls between them. Billy is now flagged. Billy is almost dead, 2 hits from joe which he never saw coming and he is dead. And just for fun joe finishes up the boss gets his loot and goes on his way.

someone who never wanted to be into pvp was forced into it, at the very least tricked into it and killed. And they could do it over and over and over. If that isn't griefing, someone forcing someone to play a way they don't want to, i don't really know what it. It certainly isn't someone making your armor a different color so you have trouble dying it.

Why is it doom and gloom? It is a fairly major change and honestly ZoS track record is a little shaky. They work hard and improve things quickly but if you dont bring things up first they might not get brought up. Or are you of the mind we should just not mention anything so people get the chance to exploit it right out of the gate?

Varicite · August 2014

No, I'm of the mindset to wait until they give us more details before making any real judgments, exactly like I said in the post you quoted.

Just like neither of us has any idea if you will even be able to BE flagged through the Justice system out in the world, or if it's just something that's active in towns.

Esha76 · August 2014

I was in the process of searching links for information on the topic of trolls and griefing, as the discussion went into people debating about the personality traits and symptoms of psychological disorders behind such behaviors.

I had noticed someone had stated something about leaving the diagnoses of griefers/trolls mental issues to the professionals. Big Brother mods have since removed that person's post, as apparently they don't think it's relevant to the topic on a thread about griefing.

I am one of the professionals. And here are two links to articles about various studies done on the subject of Internet trolling, which is no different than griefing. They do it simply for a reaction. Whether it's nasty words here, or lighting someone up who's trying to paint their armor... it's all the same. And it is done in order to entertain themselves or boost their own egos. These are traits of sadism, Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy. Though a troll/griefer/etc. may have have these traits, it does not clinically diagnose them as such. An initial diagnosis would require a roughly 2 hour intake assessment performed by a trained and educated professional, which is always subject to change upon progress in therapy.

But whether certain specific individuals truly are sadistic/psychopaths/etc. doesn't change the fact these traits are still highly detrimental and damaging, for both the perpetrator and the victims. It continues to spread more angst and anger, further fueled by people posting photos of crying babies/etc... and perpetuates it's own ongoing cycle as no one is ever willing to back down.

So before Big Brother deletes this, I urge you all to read these articles and educate yourself a little further on the subject. For whatever good it might do for someone.....

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

http://globalnews.ca/news/1157137/internet-trolls-are-sadists-and-psychopaths-canadian-study/

vyndral13preub18_ESO · August 2014

Varicite wrote: »

No, I'm of the mindset to wait until they give us more details before making any real judgments, exactly like I said in the post you quoted.

Just like neither of us has any idea if you will even be able to BE flagged through the Justice system out in the world, or if it's just something that's active in towns.

You are right and we did get a little side tracked coming up with examples that might never exists. But on the flip side in my opinion it is equally foolish to state, the justice system wont be exploitable, without those same details.

Skafsgaard · August 2014

Nice idea, ill try it!

Varicite · August 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

No, I'm of the mindset to wait until they give us more details before making any real judgments, exactly like I said in the post you quoted.

Just like neither of us has any idea if you will even be able to BE flagged through the Justice system out in the world, or if it's just something that's active in towns.

You are right and we did get a little side tracked coming up with examples that might never exists. But on the flip side in my opinion it is equally foolish to state, the justice system wont be exploitable, without those same details.

Agreed, but I didn't state that it wouldn't be exploitable. Just that it seems like they're already aware that people are concerned about this, and are making at least preliminary efforts to curb this kind of behavior.

Anyhow, I suppose I'll quit derailing now, hehe. Not that there's really much else left to discuss in this thread, as ZOS has already come right out and said to report griefers in game. : P

Nox_Aeterna · August 2014

Varicite wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I can't believe that it took all of 5 minutes for the psychopaths to figure out how to grief dye stations. Dye stations! What could be innocuous than that?! And then 5 minutes later, they were on their little psychopath bat phone network telling all the other griefers about it. And 5 minutes after that, every last one of them had crawled out of their cave and they were at every dye station in Tamriel. Giggling away behind their keyboards like Beavis & Butthead.

Unbelievable. It just boggles the mind how some people's brains work. :-(

If there is one thing these dye stations prove , is that people will try to grief others over anything.

Hope zen learns that this is how playerbase behaves and start to listen to the many threads talking about possible grief issues on their new systems.

Yep, the justice system will be a mess.

I'm not sure how you could use the Justice system to grief, though I'm sure ways will be found if it's at all possible.

Just logically speaking though, you can't be attacked unless you choose to kill NPCs and steal items enough to gain enough notoriety to flag yourself. It's literally your own choice to participate and it doesn't sound as though anyone can force you to.

How can it be griefing when you are actively inviting others to attack you?

Because you don't actually know how it is implemented. Do i have to go somewhere to sign up to be able to pvp others who have broken the law? If not and all i have to do os attack someone to start it, then yea it is very open to griefing. Or they have already said bankers are attackable, you think it is griefing when you cant dye your armor a pretty color, what happens when you cant get into your bank? Although i suppose the argument could be made that attacking the banker over and over isn't griefing since it was designed that way.

Honestly not trying to be rude but if you cant think of several ways the justice system can be exploited just off the top of your head, you have no experience in open world pvp or you aren't trying very hard. I mean the dye system grief going on now is actually something most people would not think of, people have had years upon years of ways to come up with ways to exploit open world pvp. Now ESO may not fall into that trap. But their record is a little shaky and that is why people worry.

To be fair, the Justice system details that we have are pretty much exactly as I described.

I don't know how it will be implemented, true, but I do know a few basic things about it:

Bankers are attackable, but unkillable, and they've said it would be implemented in such a way that wouldn't disrupt other players. So, kinda lame if you're trying to get a rise out of people, but great if you don't feel like waiting for your bank to respawn.

You don't have to sign up to pvp other people, when their bounty becomes high enough, they will automatically be flagged for you to kill. You don't just go from 0 notoriety to killable.

Now, it's true, I do not know if killing a random npc is enough to flag you. I don't know if hitting them once or twice is enough. You may need to go on a rampage, who knows.

Either way, if YOU have to attack someone, nobody can force you to do so. Again, you can't be griefed by something that you have 100% control over.

The "several" ways that you just mentioned have all been covered already. Most of these just sound like Chicken Little speculation or simple paranoia.

Like I said, if it can be used to grief, I'm sure it will, but at first glance it doesn't seem like it will be set up to be easily exploited. More than anything, it sounds like it's up to the player whether they want to participate or not.

People are griefing others over a dye station.

I repeat , a dye station.

Unless zen puts a LOT effort into making sure their system works and is correctly limited , people will go out of their way to grief others now.

It is completely ridiculous.

The justice system opens up tons of questions that we are not 100% sure about and that could open to many of these issues , for now the mods only gave us general ideas of how things should work.

Telling them to wise up and prepare for this kind of behavior is just to be cautious.

UrQuan · August 2014

Audigy wrote: »

If they spam it then yes it could be intended, that said not everyone might have that in mind. I sometimes cast a spell as well to buff others, I probably wont do it now at the Dye station for obvious reasons but the intention to grief was never there

Not everyone must have the intention to grief but right now you guys generalize that every spell cast must be coming from a griefer and its the same situation that I explained with the horse or banker camping. Some might just do it without having the intention to grief, yet it hinders us from NPC interaction.

Nobody in this thread is talking about the people who cast a spell here and there, or people who ride horses in town, or people who sit on bankers. Those people are not griefers in any way shape or form. The only thing people are calling out as griefing in this thread is spamming a spell over and over at a dye station that prevents people from properly using it to dye their equipment the colours that they want. It's specifically the constant spamming that makes it griefing. If someone casts the spell once (possibly by accident, possibly just to see what the effect looks like, whatever) then that's not going to make people upset.

Tubben · August 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Rhoric wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I am only sad I didn't think of something like this first. :?.

Save report for real offenses ffs

Those are offensives. you are griefing.

these are not offenses. They are being pains in the behind but no one is being griefed.

It's griefing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.[2]

SirAndy · August 2014

Khami wrote: »

The monkey isn't annoying, but the pig is.

I hate monkeys and like to eat pigs. That makes it a draw i guess ...
;-)

Srugzal · August 2014

Tulerezzer wrote: »

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Thanks for your reports, folks! If another player is making it impossible for you to dye in peace, please report them in-game. Our Support Team will be happy to investigate further.

Edit: In addition, please be sure to keep your comments here civil and respectful. We ask that all posters keep the Code of Conduct in mind. If you feel as though another player has violated our Code of Conduct, please use the report feature to alert the moderation team rather than replying in-thread, as this often needlessly escalates the situation.

Well, it is not easy to "target" someone standing in the mass of bodies spamming these abilities, and they do not usually advertise that they are the one you want to report.

...not to mention that you would have to exit the color editing screen in order to report the miscreants. That may be okay in the bank, which is fairly stateless, but here it's possible for you to lose work... that and the fact that reporting them won't actually solve anything. They're still there, spamming away...

starlizard70ub17_ESO · August 2014

I used the dye station in a VR9 zone, no greifing just a few people dying their stuff and seeing how it looks. I'm thinking you'll find most of the griefers in sub VR levels.

UrQuan · August 2014

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I used the dye station in a VR9 zone, no greifing just a few people dying their stuff and seeing how it looks. I'm thinking you'll find most of the griefers in sub VR levels.

Well, yeah, most griefers aren't really interested in playing the game - they're interested in annoying people, so the higher the level of the zone, the more rare they'll be.

txfeinbergsub17_ESO · August 2014

SirAndy wrote: »

Khami wrote: »

The monkey isn't annoying, but the pig is.

I hate monkeys and like to eat pigs. That makes it a draw i guess ...
;-)

Is it bad if I like to eat monkeys?