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Does Entropy Rising Get Special Treatment?
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Dealdrick✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »No, you want the same so called special treatment that you assume someone else is receiving. You are wrong on all counts.
You are just trolling at this point. No reason to respond to you any further.0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »The community will cry about anything they can whenever it suits them. Are the PTS patch notes not enough? How far into the future would you like to be informed on?
Patch notes are notice of changes to come but if some players are getting to influence the direction those patches are taking and what aspects of the game are being worked on more than others then I think we'd all like that privilege within out grasp.
I don't just want to know what has been decided by the favoured few, I want my voice heard too. I pay the same fee, I burn hours playing, why is my voice of no value? ( You could take a cheap shot here... be better than that.)
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Dealdrick✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »The community will cry about anything they can whenever it suits them. Are the PTS patch notes not enough? How far into the future would you like to be informed on?
Patch notes are notice of changes to come but if some players are getting to influence the direction those patches are taking and what aspects of the game are being worked on more than others then I think we'd all like that privilege within out grasp.
I don't just want to know what has been decided by the favoured few, I want my voice heard too. I pay the same fee, I burn hours playing, why is my voice of no value? ( You could take a cheap shot here... be better than that.)
I certainly agree with the message here, but I don't think even ER is being listened to very much.0 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
How am I wrong?NakedSnake wrote: »No, you want the same so called special treatment that you assume someone else is receiving. You are wrong on all counts.
1. You assume ER actually has an impact on this games development through these specific interactions.
2. You assume that the information stated by the ZOS Reps in reply to question by ER not only provide some imagined advantage but is guaranteed to be implemented at a later date.
3. You assume that ZOS is required to give you anything but a working login screen because you pay a monthly fee.SuraklinPrime wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »The community will cry about anything they can whenever it suits them. Are the PTS patch notes not enough? How far into the future would you like to be informed on?
Patch notes are notice of changes to come but if some players are getting to influence the direction those patches are taking and what aspects of the game are being worked on more than others then I think we'd all like that privilege within out grasp.
I don't just want to know what has been decided by the favoured few, I want my voice heard too. I pay the same fee, I burn hours playing, why is my voice of no value? ( You could take a cheap shot here... be better than that.)
Assumptions, assumptionsI certainly agree with the message here, but I don't think even ER is being listened to very much.
Then why should ZOS listen to you?
Everyone is receiving the same treatment but some people have distinguished themselves with their contribution to the game and are being exploited because of it.
Everyone should ask themselves, what have I contributed?"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"1 -
Kilmister✭✭It would probably be useful to get an update regarding the whole situation from someone other than the person in the middle of the debate.
"wasn't me guv" doesn't really cut it, and I think a more definitive statement from ZOS with some clear commitment on responding to issues raised in the public forums in a timely and effective manner is required.0 -
Dealdrick✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
How am I wrong?NakedSnake wrote: »No, you want the same so called special treatment that you assume someone else is receiving. You are wrong on all counts.
1. You assume ER actually has an impact on this games development through these specific interactions.
2. You assume that the information stated by the ZOS Reps in reply to question by ER not only provide some imagined advantage but is guaranteed to be implemented at a later date.
3. You assume that ZOS is required to give you anything but a working login screen because you pay a monthly fee.SuraklinPrime wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »The community will cry about anything they can whenever it suits them. Are the PTS patch notes not enough? How far into the future would you like to be informed on?
Patch notes are notice of changes to come but if some players are getting to influence the direction those patches are taking and what aspects of the game are being worked on more than others then I think we'd all like that privilege within out grasp.
I don't just want to know what has been decided by the favoured few, I want my voice heard too. I pay the same fee, I burn hours playing, why is my voice of no value? ( You could take a cheap shot here... be better than that.)
Assumptions, assumptionsI certainly agree with the message here, but I don't think even ER is being listened to very much.
Then why should ZOS listen to you?
Everyone is receiving the same treatment but some people have distinguished themselves with their contribution to the game and are being exploited because of it.
Everyone should ask themselves, what have I contributed?
ZoS should listen to their customers if they want their money. Can't make it more simple for you2 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭
Well you have been unsatified since beta weekend, right? so why are you still here? Or is this just another on of "those" threads?ZoS should listen to their customers if they want their money. Can't make it more simple for youSo many posts... can we get a summary?
What exactly is it that you guys would like to happen regarding communication with the developers about the game?
How exactly would you like them to accomplish this?
So does anyone have any specifics?Edited by NakedSnake on June 15, 2014 11:03PM"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"0 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭no one has laid any specifics, just wants and rants. Now is your time to be heard.Edited by NakedSnake on June 15, 2014 11:05PM"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"1
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Phantorang✭✭✭✭RWYDRYCKb14_ESO wrote: »Posting often is not my forte, however, this all comes down to a simple story. A rather large company decides to reward their workers for their loyalty and hard work so they decide to hold a picnic on Saturday. Someone from management decides to tell first floor workers on Monday that there will be a picnic on Saturday. All of the workers from first floor....all have a week to prepare. 2nd through 5th floor don't get informed til Friday and as a result do not get an opportunity to prepare for the picnic on Saturday. They are extremely disappointed when they discover that 1st floor had already received "COMMUNICATION" on the previous Monday. This lack of "COMMUNICATION" causes a "perceived slighted" not intentional but, far most dangerous to the working staff than if it had been intentional. Production drops on which floors I wonder.
The fault (if any) does not fall on ER and does not fall on the game itself as both are merely instruments in this fiasco. They were only trying to help. Instead it falls on the people who for whatever reason felt it was alright to use poor "COMMUNICATION" or lack thereof to fix or enhance an area of concern.
Jess and all of the Devs. and Forum moderators there is nothing more dangerous to a community then a "perceived slight". Take the time to go over your training again and think about how you might feel if some managers within ZOS decided to "COMMUNICATE" general information about your work environment in separate doses; inadvertently providing a more comfortable work situation for some but not others. Then what would your expectation be of those Managers after it was discovered.
I know I would apologize as a Manager and insure it does not repeat itself at any level.
Rule of Thumb 101 if you tell SOMEONE you tell EVERYONE. Secrets cause mistrust and poor communication causes breakdown of personal trust.
Thanks Out
^^
This is Awesome, couldnt be better said. `You should definately post more often, if only once in a while
I cant understand how anyone would think they got a right to know before anyone else.
We still cant get a straight answer to this question: Why do you in ER and other testing guilds have a right to know patch notes and game mechanics before anyone else?Edited by Phantorang on June 15, 2014 11:07PMFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC2 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭Ralathar44 wrote: »Ralathar44 wrote: »Comments like this perplex me. No one has indicated Zeni "has to" or even "should" respond to every question asked of them, so stop being ridiculous. So you read some QQ threads, what a medal for it?
That is clearly not the type of communication that people are asking to be responded to and you know it.
Any time they don't respond to everyone is a "valid" complaint of favoritism or discrimination. That is the point. If nothing else due to time constraints some people will be either focused or neglected.
Just be glad races are anonymous on the internet or you'd have 4985674 complaints of racism lol.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.
The complaint is not that they are showing favoritism, the complaint is the lack of information reaching the player base at all, regardless of who its directed towards.
But by all means, keep defending this *** dev team that treats its customers this way. Its clear they don't listen to anyone, including ER. There is no claim of favoritism, its a claim of arrogant bullheadedness.
Someone has not read the thread title or OP
.
Someone hasn't read the posts they quoted =p
Wanna play more forum games or can we have an adult discussion now?
@Ralathar44 got nothing else to say, he has lost and wont admit it. He is here only for the discussion it seems, using forum technicalities instead of real arguements.Edited by Phantorang on June 15, 2014 11:15PMFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭So many posts... can we get a summary?
What exactly is it that you guys would like to happen regarding communication with the developers about the game?
How exactly would you like them to accomplish this?
Simple, we just want the same info at the same time as ER and a few others gets it Make a thread, doesnt matter as long as everyone can see it, not just a few "worthy"Edited by Phantorang on June 15, 2014 11:19PMFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC4 -
Vuron✭✭✭✭✭
ZoS should listen to their customers if they want their money. Can't make it more simple for you
Why? Do Bioware or Rockstar ask for your advice before releasing a game or patch. You need to pay fees to play online with a PS4 or XBOX one so I'm assuming Microsoft and Sony are calling you for advice, too.
The forums are here for your convenience and to connect with other players. There is nothing in the ToS stating that they are anything more than that.
Edited by Vuron on June 15, 2014 11:37PM0 -
Dealdrick✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »So many posts... can we get a summary?
What exactly is it that you guys would like to happen regarding communication with the developers about the game?
How exactly would you like them to accomplish this?
Simple, we just want the same info ER and a few others gets. Make a thread, doesnt matter as long as everyone can see it, not just a few "worthy"
A CM having a conversation with a "well known" guild about the state of the game =/= them getting the inside track on upcoming changes on the game. You do realize that progression guilds like ER will quite often push ahead on the PTS while the casuals are still playing on the live server, right?
Most of this extra info you are talking about came from them TESTING the Craglorn patch, not sitting in on a strategy meeting discussing game balance...1 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »So many posts... can we get a summary?
What exactly is it that you guys would like to happen regarding communication with the developers about the game?
How exactly would you like them to accomplish this?
Simple, we just want the same info at the same time as ER and a few others gets it Make a thread, doesnt matter as long as everyone can see it, not just a few "worthy"
Here you go"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"0 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC3 -
Vuron✭✭✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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This is categorically incorrect. By their own admission, they have been told about upcoming balance changes.Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.1 -
Vuron✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
This is categorically incorrect. By their own admission, they have been told about upcoming balance changes.Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.
Nothing more than is available elsewhere. A rep saying that they are aware of the melee or stamina issues is not secret info. Everything might not be posted on these forums but ithe is available from interviews from other sites, reddit ama's, etc.
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NakedSnake✭✭✭Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Its as simple as, you snooze you loose. ER requested an interview; they got one. Im sure that if you were not considered a risk and had contributed to the community in such a major way then ZOS would have no problem answering some of your questions.
Sure ZOS could think about posting some of the transcripts but they are not obligated to. This is what you fail to understand. Look past your wants and realize the reality of the matter.Edited by NakedSnake on June 15, 2014 11:49PM"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"1 -
Phantorang✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
This is categorically incorrect. By their own admission, they have been told about upcoming balance changes.Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.
Nothing more than is available elsewhere. A rep saying that they are aware of the melee or stamina issues is not secret info. Everything might not be posted on these forums but ithe is available from interviews from other sites, reddit ama's, etc.
There are admittedly information that is not revealed, and is privvy to only a few.Edited by Phantorang on June 15, 2014 11:50PMFimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC1 -
GrimlockSaves✭✭✭
REALLY?Phantorang wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
This is categorically incorrect. By their own admission, they have been told about upcoming balance changes.Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.
Nothing more than is available elsewhere. A rep saying that they are aware of the melee or stamina issues is not secret info. Everything might not be posted on these forums but ithe is available from interviews from other sites, reddit ama's, etc.
There are admittedly information that is not revealed, and is privvy to only a few.0 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭No"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"0
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SwampRaider✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, I want DAILY updates about what is gonig on in the ZOS office that day and what they are working on.
I am glad this thread exists!Character: Eros, Eros I I, The Paw of Woe
Class: Templar Healer/MagWarden/ Stam Sorc
Alliance: DC
Campaign: Vivec (pc/na)
Guardians of Daggerfall1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, I have posted examples in this thread.GrimlockSaves wrote: »
REALLY?Phantorang wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
This is categorically incorrect. By their own admission, they have been told about upcoming balance changes.Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.
Nothing more than is available elsewhere. A rep saying that they are aware of the melee or stamina issues is not secret info. Everything might not be posted on these forums but ithe is available from interviews from other sites, reddit ama's, etc.
There are admittedly information that is not revealed, and is privvy to only a few.0 -
GrimlockSaves✭✭✭
Ok, I'll look back and check them out in a constructive way. Thanks!Maverick827 wrote: »
Yes, I have posted examples in this thread.GrimlockSaves wrote: »
REALLY?Phantorang wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
This is categorically incorrect. By their own admission, they have been told about upcoming balance changes.Phantorang wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »That is exactly what you are asking for. MMO's are constantly being tweaked. if they posted every change they would be posting daily.
We want NOTHING more than exactly the same information as ER gets, if ZoS are giving ER daily information, yeah well they can post it daily here instead. None of us wants anything exclusive.
But for some reason you think its fair that ER has that info before anyone else
Ok... below is all the info that ER has received that you haven't.
Nothing more than is available elsewhere. A rep saying that they are aware of the melee or stamina issues is not secret info. Everything might not be posted on these forums but ithe is available from interviews from other sites, reddit ama's, etc.
There are admittedly information that is not revealed, and is privvy to only a few.
Edited by GrimlockSaves on June 16, 2014 12:07AM0 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are four possible outcomes that I can think of in response to this:
1. Things could continue along as they always have with the developers talking to whoever they want to about the game and whoever they talk to sharing tidbits about whatever they've learned.
2. The devs could decide it's no longer in their best interest to talk to anyone about the game and just keep everything to themselves. They would only reveal things the way they do now. They just wouldn't discuss things with anyone.
3. The devs could continue to talk to whoever they want about the game and whoever they talk to decides they don't want to share whatever information they find out. Instead they might tell a few close buddies or their trusted guild members. Everyone would just have to wait until patches or official announcements to find out anything. You wouldn't know if this was happening or not because nothing would ever get leaked.
4. The devs could post more often on these forums about what changes they are making to the game and ask all players their opinions and feedback.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭There are four possible outcomes that I can think of in response to this:
1. Things could continue along as they always have with the developers talking to whoever they want to about the game and whoever they talk to sharing tidbits about whatever they've learned.
2. The devs could decide it's no longer in their best interest to talk to anyone about the game and just keep everything to themselves. They would only reveal things the way they do now. They just wouldn't discuss things with anyone.
3. The devs could continue to talk to whoever they want about the game and whoever they talk to decides they don't want to share whatever information they find out. Instead they might tell a few close buddies or their trusted guild members. Everyone would just have to wait until patches or official announcements to find out anything. You wouldn't know if this was happening or not because nothing would ever get leaked.
4. The devs could post more often on these forums about what changes they are making to the game and ask all players their opinions and feedback.
You forgot the 5th outcome...people quit playing the game.1 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭NakedSnake wrote: »With the majority of the forum threads the way they are its no wonder they choose to post so infrequently.
Yet the majority of posts in this thread moderated due to flaming are those in support of Zenimax treating ER differently which probably means they are also in ER
The majority of complaints on this forum by people still subbed are valid complaints. Just because they might be complaining about something you or I might have zero interest in, still makes them valid.
And most of the angrier type threads are caused by hearing nothing official about peoples concerns.
Maybe if the devs after talking to ER then posted on here a summary of whats been discussed, less people would be complaining about a lack of info.
Someone from ER many pages ago said words to the effect that the devs he/she spoke to had asked them not to publicise what was said.
That alarms me. Either the dev is giving them info that he/she doesn't have the authority to give, hence doesn't want to get in trouble
or
The dev is listening to a very small player base and basing some of their decisions for the games future on what that small group who in no way shape or form represent me or my wishes, and knows what the response from the wider community would be but doesn't care, at the same time wants an easy life.
Regardless of whether it's totally above board, even if it was fair and worthwhile (which I very much doubt), a 4 year old is going to see how this looks to the wider community but yet again Zenimax can't see it.
I am not the best of players when it comes to watching numbers or working out the best build (one of the things that drew me to this game was Zenimax saying it was designing ESO so that we could get away from all sorcs having to use xyz to be the best etc), but whatever guild I've been in over the years, theres always a few that understand it inside out, should they never get a voice?
I played Lotro for years, been in a few of its expansion betas. Before the last exoansion, person after person in Helms Deep beta was warning both the devs and the company what would happen if they stuck to their release date and gave it to the players in the state it was in. And of course they went ahead, ignored us all, and people left in droves, kin (guild) after guild went from say 100 to 5 members. Sure very very casual players, role players and some Tolkien fanatics still love it, but a huge amount of the player base was lost.
The other big thing with Lotro was the players council they introduced in 2013 with a dozen or so people chosen from those that applied, that helped make decisions on the games future, but they were under a strict NDA and couldn't tell the community anything they had suggested or been told.
How badly this worked really showed its self in the Helms Deep beta where 95% of the players posting in the beta forums hated all the changes and most (a couple of exceptions, who kept quiet instead) of the players council stood up for the changes and attacked those saying they didn't like them to the point of a few betas later, many players had already left and most who remained couldn't be bothered to post anymore.
Reading this thread about Zenimax and ER, and seeing the tone of some of those sticking up for them, I simply feel, ' here we go again'
I came to ESO expecting (possibly naively) a different experience. I wss in the 3 betas before release and again it was obvious to a 4 year old what would happen if it was released. The public condemnation of this game in almost all gaming forums and the loss of many players is the result.
I hoped to be here for years, you can look at my profile and randomly select some of my previous posts if you wish to see how positive I've been about ESO despite the release fiasco. As I love Elder Scrolls so much, I could ignore the obvious too early launch, the numerous amount of bugs that shouldn't have made it out the door (sure some bugs will always be here)
One of my biggest concerns has been the very very bad and often silent official response to many peoples issues and I have often said that if only Zenimax would communicate properly, they would find most of the community very forgiving, but give the appearance that they don't care, we feel like they are being arrogant, almost treating us with contempt.
I have to say that more and more this game seems to be run by the same type of suits that have almost killed Lotro and while I am having fun (not enjoying vet grind) , I'm paying to effectively beta test and I only have so much patience.
Finding out that the devs are chatting to a select few and keeping them informed, answering their questions, had they also done the same here it would be a completely different matter, but as it stands, I'm shaking my head in disgust and disappointment.
And what concerns me most is that Zenimax can't see it. The only times they really respond to anything is two weeks after the horse has bolted, in other words to give a tiny bit of damage control.
It really isn't good enough to be honest.4