cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

@Evandus

I see, you're a fan, not a member of the guild. My apologies to ER for tarnishing their reputation with your arrogance in my eyes. I don't know how else to tell you what I think about this issue without beating a dead horse, so I'll just leave it there. Maybe you'll go back and actually read through what I wrote, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I agree. You should stop name calling and produce something actionable if you wish for your opinions to be held in higher esteem by the community managers.

Phantorang wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

@Evandus

I see, you're a fan, not a member of the guild. My apologies to ER for tarnishing their reputation with your arrogance in my eyes. I don't know how else to tell you what I think about this issue without beating a dead horse, so I'll just leave it there. Maybe you'll go back and actually read through what I wrote, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I agree. You should stop name calling and produce something actionable if you wish for your opinions to be held in higher esteem by the community managers.

You claiming @cjmarsh725b14_ESO posts as rage is not name calling, while the response, calling you arrogant is?

That is a perfect example of arrogance.

Furthermore, you completely ignore the question at hand: Why does ER need to know changes to the game before anyone else?

Im not speaking for myself, I speak for the whole community, I dont think I deserve to know anything before anyone else, as opposed to you and ER who think they deserve to know before anyone else.

Your arrogance example is flawed.

If I were to continuously post xyz guild get's this, and this, and this, etc while completely ignoring the stated experiences other participants in the targeted demographic... uh yeah, I'd say we have a problem there.

When I stepped into this discussion, I presented my opinions and asked questions. The answers were being called arrogant and a hypocrite. Any expected reasonable answer to my questions were completely abandoned in favor of name calling. Now that's laughable. What would you call someone who does this? I've refrained from doing the same, but I could...

I've not ignored that question. You appear to have some issue comprehending my meaning when I've stated repeatedly that ER's testing methods and results are publicly viewable and shared with the community. Presently I'm at a loss on how to get you to understand that. I've even gone so far as to suggest people doubting this go read their forums. Then you can see for yourself.

The bottom line is that I don't believe they are being fed privileged and secret information as you and a couple of others keep repeating ad nausem. These are unfounded and unsubstantiated allegations which on the surface serve no purpose save to damage their reputation in the community. It's no secret that some players do not care for ER. I'm sure as a guild they have folks they don't care for either. Except, they aren't starting threads filled with imaginary slights, exaggerations of events, and misrepresentation of what others are doing. Yet that's exactly what I stumbled onto here going on two days ago.

What has happened is that they've communicated their testing results as a portion of their opinions. Opinions that were requested incidentally. Now, if you wanted to know something about a particular skill, ability, or mechanic you only need do that testing yourself. And then, when you communicated your findings and had someone from Zenimax agreed with your findings - you can publicly post that there was an agreement with what your research suggested. For the benefit of every player willing to receive that information. But don't forget your hip waders. You'll need them after the trolls show up.

The community that you believe you speak for has had the ability to read these types of conclusions based on testing in their forums since before the game went live. And you most certainly are not speaking for the community. I am part of the community as well. So are people from other guilds that communicated with Zenimax that have posted in this thread. Or folks who outright disagree with you who have stated such in this thread.

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

NakedSnake wrote: »

You pay you play...end of story. Your monthly fee does not entitle you know the ins and out's of development. Next thing you'll be wanting the devs to email you before they take a ***.

Yes but it doesn't entitle guilds who are not on the payroll to the ins and out of development either, as a matter of a fact I'm sure most game companies have secrecy clauses in their employment contracts so they don't end up sharing too much information i.e. to prevent stuff like future patch notes getting leaked to other companies.

Not saying guilds like ER know what's coming in patch 1.3 and are about to leak it to NCSoft but it is a bit worrying to see they can get very specific information pretty much on demand while the rest of the community get vague responses if any.

In my opinion of course Zenimax should engage with guilds, but engaging shouldn't mean giving out such specifics like the OP mentioned or not taking individual opinions with a grain of salt like they do with the rest of the community. Letting a small circle of players get too pally with the development is not only bad for manipulation/exploitation of the development process but it also looks bad from a professional standpoint as well.

They should be treating all paying customers equal regardless of how good they are or whether they happen to run a useful community resource.

They are no more entitled than you or I. Who, what, when, where, and how ZOS decides to do business is none of your concern. If ZOS decides to cut off ER or all of them or simply replace them all, it is their prerogative.

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

Um, half the in-game tooltips don't accurately describe what the skills do. They're either off, mathematically, or flat-out incorrect. I would say the monthly fee "entitles" one to a working product, one that behaves as described. What's going on now is not that. The hidden maths, the ones that are currently being argued and complained about, the ones that are the Game That IS, not the Game As We Are Told, are available to some, but not others, and certainly not all.

That seems...grey enough to be worth commenting on. I have no idea why you'd bother putting forth this effort basically telling people they're powerless and unimportant and they should shut up.

You would be wrong. This is an MMO, it's ever evolving nature guarantees that there will always be bugs, nerfs, and buffs. First time playing an MMO? Welcome!

Play or play not, there is no cry.

OP, let me demonstrate what I am talking about.

What is the Average damage players are doing in Trials?
What is the

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

This could've easily been avoided if green posts on this forum actually regularly responded too questions and pages, but even pms go ignored and that's what fuels these sort of gripes.

How often do you see a thread with your particular issue and see that a staff member posted only to find its a reprimand or a thread closure o thread move and has nothing actually related to the original discussion? Too many by my count.

I have two pms currently with no responses and numerous threads that have been ignored or receive no follow up. I'm sure others feel slighted as well.

We have a paging system where the recipients often ignore the pages. These things need to change. I can bet that this thread would've been a non issues if zenimax actually took a more active role around here.

I do agree that the Devs NEED to have interactions in these forums.

I have posted 3 times in this thread and had all 3 edited due to Flaming they say. So we have moderators but not Developers posting. I am sorry but it is NOT looking good. I am a pre alpha, Alpha, abt pure beta tester on the old closed Player Test Server.

The can moderate posts within a matter of minutes but cannot provide feedback or anything at all?

BS

Valn wrote: »

no one should really take note of anything gisgo says, hes just here to troll people and it's pretty obvious.

I agree. You should all listen to this guy, he knows his stuff.
I mean, just check his thread history.
He always shows a deep understanding of game mechanics.

And yes im trolling.

deathsdoor_rift2_ESO wrote: »

I have posted 3 times in this thread and had all 3 edited due to Flaming they say.

And you're the kind of "tester" people they're giving privileged information to? Someone who can't even obey the forum rules?

Seriously, what the hell are you guys still talking about in this thread, and why? Stop writing your walls of text testaments of whatever and let this thread die.

GrimlockSaves wrote: »

Seriously, what the hell are you guys still talking about in this thread, and why? Stop writing your walls of text testaments of whatever and let this thread die.

Why is this topic not worthy of discussion in your opinion?

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Devs cannot speak to everybody who asks them a question. What they do is try to speak to opinion and thought leaders in the community. It's the same in any industry or group all over the world. You can't speak to 500,000 people all playing the game or even the 5,000 that are presumably bothering to post here. You have to stratify the list somehow.

In WoW Blizzard had Ghostcrawler whose full time job became just responding to some (not all) of the endless questions people asked on Twitter. Other than him, the people that the devs spoke to the most were usually the ones that were engaged in the game other than just playing - they had organised guilds for competitive end game pvp, they had displayed knowledge of classes and game mechanics by virtue of what they had achieved in the game, and they had spent hours on the PTR testing upcoming mechanics.

Just look at some of the threads here eg "zomg I guit bolt escape has been nerfed to hell and back no point playing sorc nemore qqqqqqq" or "zomg i cant believe u are nerfing dk because all the temps qq'd about us qqqqqq" or "zomg cant u fix nightblades yet im unsubbing till u do something qqqqq". Is there really any point in engaging in constructive dialogue with these people?

Comments like this perplex me. No one has indicated Zeni "has to" or even "should" respond to every question asked of them, so stop being ridiculous. So you read some QQ threads, what a medal for it?

That is clearly not the type of communication that people are asking to be responded to and you know it.

Venithar wrote: »

ozgod22_eso wrote: »

Is there really any point in engaging in constructive dialogue with these people?

They would first need to engage in any kind of dialogue before it could be determined if it was constructive or not. Also, 1 group getting answers while the other group is left in the dark is a great way to *** of the group left in the dark.

Agreed, how can people defend the communication from Zeni when there has essentially been none?

Dealdrick wrote: »

Comments like this perplex me. No one has indicated Zeni "has to" or even "should" respond to every question asked of them, so stop being ridiculous. So you read some QQ threads, what a medal for it?

That is clearly not the type of communication that people are asking to be responded to and you know it.

Any time they don't respond to everyone is a "valid" complaint of favoritism or discrimination. That is the point. If nothing else due to time constraints some people will be either focused or neglected.

Just be glad races are anonymous on the internet or you'd have 4985674 complaints of racism lol.

Posting often is not my forte, however, this all comes down to a simple story. A rather large company decides to reward their workers for their loyalty and hard work so they decide to hold a picnic on Saturday. Someone from management decides to tell first floor workers on Monday that there will be a picnic on Saturday. All of the workers from first floor....all have a week to prepare. 2nd through 5th floor don't get informed til Friday and as a result do not get an opportunity to prepare for the picnic on Saturday. They are extremely disappointed when they discover that 1st floor had already received "COMMUNICATION" on the previous Monday. This lack of "COMMUNICATION" causes a "perceived slighted" not intentional but, far most dangerous to the working staff than if it had been intentional. Production drops on which floors I wonder.

The fault (if any) does not fall on ER and does not fall on the game itself as both are merely instruments in this fiasco. They were only trying to help. Instead it falls on the people who for whatever reason felt it was alright to use poor "COMMUNICATION" or lack thereof to fix or enhance an area of concern.

Jess and all of the Devs. and Forum moderators there is nothing more dangerous to a community then a "perceived slight". Take the time to go over your training again and think about how you might feel if some managers within ZOS decided to "COMMUNICATE" general information about your work environment in separate doses; inadvertently providing a more comfortable work situation for some but not others. Then what would your expectation be of those Managers after it was discovered.

I know I would apologize as a Manager and insure it does not repeat itself at any level.

Rule of Thumb 101 if you tell SOMEONE you tell EVERYONE. Secrets cause mistrust and poor communication causes breakdown of personal trust.

Thanks Out