Restoring the Faith

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

In my opinion the credibility of ZOS and this game has fallen greatly over the last couple of months. My impression is that many people seem to believe that the game is not worth playing or at least not worth paying for on a monthly basis. In my opinion this is evidenced by a noticeable drop in player population, the consolidation of guilds, and only one full PVP instance.

I think the reasons for this loss of players and credibility are well known: bugs that have existed since beta and should have been fixed by now, a klunky and inadequate UI (although in all fairness, it is no more klunky than the UI in Skyrim or Oblivion), possibly misplaced priorities (favoring new content over making fundamental game systems work properly), all of which has been exacerbated by a lack of communication by ZOS.

I want this game to succeed and I continue to subscribe in the hope that it will. I want to do whatever I can to help this game reach its potential. To that end, the following is my list of reliably reproducible bugs and impaired functionality. If they were addressed in a timely fashion by ZOS I believe it would go a long way in restoring faith in ZOS and this game.

Each of the following items, on their own, is not such a big deal and I can understand how some of them might be de-prioritized by QA. But given that we encounter them every day, each time we play, since the beginning of beta, as a whole they have a serious psychological impact on attitudes towards the game.

The list (not in any particular order):

Deposited items in the bank\guild bank\inventory don't stack.
Grossly inadequate guild bank search
When depositing items in the guild bank, far too frequently you encounter "Waiting on previous request" blocking the deposit.
When inviting people to a guild, every other invite fails for some unknown reason and has to be done again.
More often than not, when opening the guild bank the screen seems to be stuck "Retrieving items" (with a wait animation).
In Cyrodiil, DCs are far too frequent.
In Cyrodiil, lag is horrible and lag spikes seem to be yoked to the connection status of other raid members in the raid group.
In Cyrodiil, healers remain in the "in combat" state for far too long relative to everyone else.
In Cyrodiil, minor lag each time someone joins/leaves the raid.
Friends cannot join me in my quests if they are not at the same point in the quest as me.
Phasing issues: can't see my party members (only their ^ floating above them), resources disappearing as soon as I try to harvest them, etc.
When forming groups in PvE often no one is leader after first person added to the group (so the second group member) and so inviting new people to group fails.
Group advertising tool is useless for people whose level is not within the specified level range of the dungeon (or whatever you are advertising for).

These may not be bugs, but they are annoying for sure:

When receiving mail about a sold item the mail does not mention what was sold.
Enchanting is absurdly difficult to level.
Veteral levels are absurdly difficult to level.
The cost of a single respec is much too high.
This game has become extremely miserly with rewards. E.g., do anchors even give lootable rewards anymore?

I don't include balance issues or bots, annoying as they are, as they are not bugs and every MMO I have ever played has been plagued by them.

Have I missed anything? I am sure I have. Do you know of a bug that if fixed would restore some faith in this game and its maker?

Haxer · June 2014

Emphasis on lack of communication.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Wanna comment on the Respec issue real fast. The reason the Respecs are so costly is due to the nature of the game they are trying to instill. Choices have consequences. You have to make a LOT of choices about your character and they effect your playstyle are you going to be a healer, tank, or a DPS. What kinda gear your going to wear and master.

So look at the high respec cost as if your NOT actually supposed to do repsecs at all except in rare occasions like you found bows weren't to your likeing after using them for a while or you just simply seem to die too often while wearing light armor for you melee character and wanna switch to heavy armor.

All these choices matter and should be near permanent choices. Right now you cant really expect somebody to change their entire build cause its cheap and easy to do. Your character choices are supposed to define "WHO" you are in this game because EVERYBODY can DO EVERYTHIING but nobody can EXPECT anything of you.

Heishi · June 2014

Some of those bugs you notes are (were?) covered in patch notes for the 1.2.x patch. How well those work is anyone's guess.

-Items not stacking in guild bank was something they actually did on purpose for some reason and is in a previous patch note.

-question at different stages of a quest I'm almost positive I seen this in something they're working on for a future patch I believe the phasing issue is included in this.

-Cyrodil I'm pretty sure is just an ongoing work in progress

The other stuff I haven't seen anything, that I can recall, one way another.

Bloodfang · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

When receiving mail about a sold item the mail does not mention what was sold.

Enchanting is absurdly difficult to level.

Veteral levels are absurdly difficult to level.

The cost of a single respec is much too high.

This game has become extremely miserly with rewards. E.g., do anchors even give lootable rewards anymore?

Enchanthing is the only profession with some difficulty to it (Mine is sitting at 22 only!). I mean come on I just leveled up to VR4 and my other professions are like this: Blacksmithing - 50, Woodworking - 50, Clothing 50 (And these are even the 2nd most difficult crafts in the game). Other professions need difficulty increase and not the other way around. It's just not normal that I'm only half done with the game and I'm already max level on professions..

Veteran Levels are pretty much the same thing as enchanting, they are difficult which I cannot say for the normal content which was a faceroll in every department. Hell I'm playing a templar (S&B Full Heavy Armor Tank) and I never had one problem soloing in VR. I hope only that they add another difficulty option named "Normal", with it's difficulty same or just little above what the normal content was.

The most notable rewards in the zone are from Public Dungeon and World Bosses. And even they are blue quality, I think in Group Challenges you can get even epics. I just don't understand you guys, you want epics every hour or even less.. In case you haven't noticed the gap is little, beetwen the blue weapons, armors and epic weapons, armors. Reward doesn't mean much to you only because you can't brag like in WoW that you have every hour 1000 more health, stamina, mana etc etc. If you want Epics every hour in this game, go craft them, its perfectly viable.

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO · June 2014

7+1 phases of me playing eso:

1 : hyped and cant wait to explore all (ignoring all negatives encountered in beta)
2 : after first hype, finding all bugs and report them (still being positive)
3 : seeing dwemer robot answers, exploits unfixed, bots around and hitting hard bugs
4 : asking for a timeline to fix bugs, fix engine, fix xy and hitting the brick wall of silence (even on phone)
5 : things get worse each patch (for me) ... starting to get bored and catch myself just talking in teamspeak without playing the game
6 : things addup, friends leave, forums overflow with crys and nerfbats
7 : i catch myself playing other games and cant get myself to log into eso
8 : we will see

p.s. spent the last week more time in forums than ingame.... sad

Phantax · June 2014

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

7+1 phases of me playing eso:

1 : hyped and cant wait to explore all (ignoring all negatives encountered in beta)
2 : after first hype, finding all bugs and report them (still being positive)
3 : seeing dwemer robot answers, exploits unfixed, bots around and hitting hard bugs
4 : asking for a timeline to fix bugs, fix engine, fix xy and hitting the brick wall of silence (even on phone)
5 : things get worse each patch (for me) ... starting to get bored and catch myself just talking in teamspeak without playing the game
6 : things addup, friends leave, forums overflow with crys and nerfbats
7 : i catch myself playing other games and cant get myself to log into eso
8 : we will see

p.s. spent the last week more time in forums than ingame.... sad

My god, that's almost me....lol

1 : hyped and cant wait to explore all (ignoring all negatives encountered in beta)
2 : after first hype, finding all bugs and report them (still being positive)
3 : seeing dwemer robot answers, exploits unfixed, bots around and hitting hard bugs
4 : asking for a timeline to fix bugs, fix engine, fix xy and hitting the brick wall of silence (even on phone)
5 : things get worse each patch (for me) ... starting to get bored and catch myself just talking in chat without playing the game
6 : things add up, friends leave, forums overflow with crys and nerfbats
6.5: wandering around the game, unmotivated to do anything until I finally log out !
7 : i catch myself playing other games and cant get myself to log into eso
8 : spent the last week more time in forums than ingame

Your additional comment would be my number 8, and I'd also have a 6.5 (just seemed to fit nicely between points 6 & 7)

Its really hard to explain, I feel burned out from the game already and yet I'm not playing that extensively now? I know I've still got lots of stuff to do in-game yet I just cannot motivate myself to do it. I said something similar in another post it just seems as if the 'magic' the 'sparkle' whatever has gone from the game. I soooo want to love this game but.... /sigh

AlexDougherty · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Deposited items in the bank\guild bank\inventory don't stack.

When depositing items in bank, far too frequently you encounter "Waiting on previous request" blocking the deposit.

Friends cannot join me in my quests if they are not at the same point in the quest as me.

Phasing issues: can't see my party members (only their ^ floating above them), resources disappearing as soon as I try to harvest them, etc.

Enchanting is absurdly difficult to level.

The cost of a single respec is much too high.

Deposited items do stack in both Inventory and the Bank, only armour and weapons don't stack. Cant speak about Guild Bank.
"Waiting on previous request" must be the guild bank, because I've never seen it.
Grouping is wrecked, it needs fixing, no arguement there.
Enchanting is ridiculous, no arguement there either.
Respecc is supposed to be expensive, but yeah it's too expensive, they do need to fix it.

Blackwidow · June 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

"Waiting on previous request" must be the guild bank, because I've never seen it.

Yes, it is just a guild bank thing.

AlexDougherty · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

"Waiting on previous request" must be the guild bank, because I've never seen it.

Yes, it is just a guild bank thing.

Thanks, just mentioning it because the OP has it listed as bank, not guild bank.
Small error but should be editted.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Wanna comment on the Respec issue real fast. The reason the Respecs are so costly is due to the nature of the game they are trying to instill. Choices have consequences. You have to make a LOT of choices about your character and they effect your playstyle are you going to be a healer, tank, or a DPS. What kinda gear your going to wear and master.

So look at the high respec cost as if your NOT actually supposed to do repsecs at all except in rare occasions like you found bows weren't to your likeing after using them for a while or you just simply seem to die too often while wearing light armor for you melee character and wanna switch to heavy armor.

All these choices matter and should be near permanent choices. Right now you cant really expect somebody to change their entire build cause its cheap and easy to do. Your character choices are supposed to define "WHO" you are in this game because EVERYBODY can DO EVERYTHIING but nobody can EXPECT anything of you.

How are you supposed to know that the skill/morph you picked is any good?

The skill descriptions are so vague it's laughable and half the NBs skills/passives were broken at launch and most still are.

I would be happy with your explanation if the game wasn't such a mess.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Wanna comment on the Respec issue real fast. The reason the Respecs are so costly is due to the nature of the game they are trying to instill. Choices have consequences. You have to make a LOT of choices about your character and they effect your playstyle are you going to be a healer, tank, or a DPS. What kinda gear your going to wear and master.

So look at the high respec cost as if your NOT actually supposed to do repsecs at all except in rare occasions like you found bows weren't to your likeing after using them for a while or you just simply seem to die too often while wearing light armor for you melee character and wanna switch to heavy armor.

All these choices matter and should be near permanent choices. Right now you cant really expect somebody to change their entire build cause its cheap and easy to do. Your character choices are supposed to define "WHO" you are in this game because EVERYBODY can DO EVERYTHIING but nobody can EXPECT anything of you.

How are you supposed to know that the skill/morph you picked is any good?

The skill descriptions are so vague it's laughable and half the NBs skills/passives were broken at launch and most still are.

I would be happy with your explanation if the game wasn't such a mess.

Only real answer to that is don't play an MMO's on release then as all MMO's go through with this. Sorta like rolling a class to find out its worthless and have to wait several months to be viable.

All MMO's go through the same crap just in a different form. Having to reroll an entire class just to be viable as there those people that cant wait for a fix is pain staking long and troubling as the pendulum swings ALOT in class balancing.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Wanna comment on the Respec issue real fast. The reason the Respecs are so costly is due to the nature of the game they are trying to instill. Choices have consequences. You have to make a LOT of choices about your character and they effect your playstyle are you going to be a healer, tank, or a DPS. What kinda gear your going to wear and master.

So look at the high respec cost as if your NOT actually supposed to do repsecs at all except in rare occasions like you found bows weren't to your likeing after using them for a while or you just simply seem to die too often while wearing light armor for you melee character and wanna switch to heavy armor.

All these choices matter and should be near permanent choices. Right now you cant really expect somebody to change their entire build cause its cheap and easy to do. Your character choices are supposed to define "WHO" you are in this game because EVERYBODY can DO EVERYTHIING but nobody can EXPECT anything of you.

How are you supposed to know that the skill/morph you picked is any good?

The skill descriptions are so vague it's laughable and half the NBs skills/passives were broken at launch and most still are.

I would be happy with your explanation if the game wasn't such a mess.

Only real answer to that is don't play an MMO's on release then as all MMO's go through with this. Sorta like rolling a class to find out its worthless and have to wait several months to be viable.

All MMO's go through the same crap just in a different form. Having to reroll an entire class just to be viable as there those people that cant wait for a fix is pain staking long and troubling as the pendulum swings ALOT in class balancing.

Other MMO's don't charge you an arm and a leg to respec though, which is why the problem is worse here.

daneyulebub17_ESO · June 2014

-I'd add:
No Optional Nameplates
Limited chat channels
No follow
No alert to receiving a tell
No changing your character's features
General UI "uni-task" idiocy like not being able to see your equipped items and bank at the same time, bag items and bank items at the same time, crafting options and equipped items at the same time, etc.

-More structural, long term oversights:
No housing
No cosmetics

TheMagicalSpiff · June 2014

We're all different. I'm not subscribing to see the game improve to a "playable state," I subscribe because I think it's heavenly playable and incredibly enjoyable. I think that every MMO spends quite some time getting on it's feet and into it's stride proper, and I think it's fair to be as lenient with ESO as one is with other MMO's. The main difference between a game like this, and a game like Call of Duty is that this is more persistent, and more reliable on content updates, whereas the latter (Call of Duty) usually adds bug-fixes and tweaks in patches, and instead focus on pumping out sequels.

A lot of people have unrealistic expectations to new MMO's, where they don't consider that it's only after full release that they'll hear from the masses, what needs to be changed. And it is evident that they are listening to us. Bugs about quests and such have been fixed, and those that have not, are surely being worked on. We must not become cynics and expect the worst from developers, just because we hear the naysayers screaming loudly. Instead, we must have a positive outlook (which is healthy to have, not only when it comes to looking at games, but also in other aspects) on things, and find ourselves happily endorsed by the developers.

I highly recommend reading their Reddit AUA. It was a month ago, and it displays a special and unique care for the players, something that I find extremely eye-opening and am happy to observe. For instance, let's take Player Housing. Someone asked them about it, and instead of saying a flat no, or a "Yeah, coming soon," they stated that they will add it, but they want to do it right, and they want to do both the franchise and this individual game justice, as well as the players, focusing on making it a quality product instead of just pumping it out.

It is just a sad fact that the naysayers here on the forums are so much louder than people who enjoy the game, because the people who enjoy the game are likely busy with doing just that. I hope to see what ZOS has planned for the future, and hope to continue to love the game that they made.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Most of the 'naysayers' still here like parts of the game and actually do want it to succeed believe it or not. Why else would they still have an active sub.

For me personally it's hard not to be cynical at this point when it comes to Zenimax. For the first month and a half I was still hopeful that things would turn around, but it's just gotten progressively worse to the point of extreme frustration. I fully expected bugs and bots on release, no surprises there. What I didn't expect to see was the poorly implemented VR content, crazy class imbalance, build imbalance (magicka > stam) and the borked grouping system. These are core issues that honestly should've been polished over during beta.

I'm bitterly disappointed. I have not been so let down since Age of Conan. If only the devs interacted with it's community here on their own official forums and actively took part in the many constructive discussions early on, maybe the situation wouldn't be so dire.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Well I can imagine being upset that certain things haven't been fixed yet. But lets look at the fact that month one did they fix ANYTHING...I'd say they fixed a LOT so its understandable that other issues DIDNT get fixed cause they were working on other problems.

If NOTHING got fixed period then I can understand being upset but the are constantly working and fixing things. Month 1 was fixing issues where you can even PLAY the game cause progress was halted to a complete stop in MANY areas of the game. They have been doing balance fixes in the 1st month as well and attempted to fix the stability issues. Just because its NOT working doesn't mean they haven't been attempting to fix the issue.

DireKit · June 2014

Yeah, well. Speaking entirely seriously, our faith in Zenimax itself has been shaken a bit. Although We thought them to be an honest company that genuinely supported their product, We recently had correspondence with them to field them a question about the game. It was a perhaps controversial question to ask them directly, but you see..

In Finland, people are used to Companies that are honest. They will answer your question even if they are worried the answer will be less than desirable. They will provide the Customer with the absolute best information they can, honestly and directly.

However to this question, they did not answer. They merely told us they "could not comment."

So We left negative feedback, because honestly.. what do you expect?

Our feedback was..

"It wasn't a straight answer to the question asked. We want a straight, honest, and genuine answer; not to be given the run-around."

To which they responded in much the same fashion as they had before. A somewhat canned response, claiming;

"I will be happy to assist you as best as I can to get this issue resolved for you!"

Except that's a lie.

They answered our question, but only so much as to tell is that they weren't "able" to answer our question.

You know what?

Companies in Finland are honest because they stand behind their product and they know that if they're honest and forward with their Customers, they have a far greater chance for Customer retention. Even if you have a bad experience or you have fears about their product, having them answer honestly inspires a LOT more faith in their Company and product than being given the run-around or having someone outright refuse to answer your question for whatever reasons.

And Companies in Finland want you to be able to make an intelligent decision that is not biased by dishonest and deceptive ***.

The fact that Zenimax has now more or less refused to stand behind their product, the fact that they don't appear from their actions rather than their words to have faith in their own product, does not fill us with the greatest sense of trust or faith in this Company. Deceptive and dishonest run-around 'answers' say the exact opposite, in fact.

That's not a good thing for the Company at all.

And they should consider this.

EDIT

As of recently, they have given a more satisfactory response and admitted that their answer was not wholly forward but stated reasons that seem more acceptable to us than just the beating around the bush responses. Their answer actually stated that at the moment they couldn't really answer because they weren't sure themselves.

While this doesn't really fully restore our faith in the stability of the game, it does make us feel slightly better about the Company itself.

This in turn makes us far more likely to stick with the Company, even through tough times.

So well done, Zenimax. You turned a Customer Service disappointment into something considerably better.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

DireKit wrote: »

Yeah, well. Speaking entirely seriously, our faith in Zenimax itself has been shaken a bit. Although We thought them to be an honest company that genuinely supported their product, We recently had correspondence with them to field them a question about the game. It was a perhaps controversial question to ask them directly, but you see..

In Finland, people are used to Companies that are honest. They will answer your question even if they are worried the answer will be less than desirable. They will provide the Customer with the absolute best information they can, honestly and directly.

However to this question, they did not answer. They merely told us they "could not comment."

So We left negative feedback, because honestly.. what do you expect?

Our feedback was..

"It wasn't a straight answer to the question asked. We want a straight, honest, and genuine answer; not to be given the run-around."

To which they responded in much the same fashion as they had before. A somewhat canned response, claiming;

"I will be happy to assist you as best as I can to get this issue resolved for you!"

Except that's a lie.

They answered our question, but only so much as to tell is that they weren't "able" to answer our question.

You know what?

Companies in Finland are honest because they stand behind their product and they know that if they're honest and forward with their Customers, they have a far greater chance for Customer retention. Even if you have a bad experience or you have fears about their product, having them answer honestly inspires a LOT more faith in their Company and product than being given the run-around or having someone outright refuse to answer your question for whatever reasons.

And Companies in Finland want you to be able to make an intelligent decision that is not biased by dishonest and deceptive ***.

The fact that Zenimax has now more or less refused to stand behind their product, the fact that they don't appear from their actions rather than their words to have faith in their own product, does not fill us with the greatest sense of trust or faith in this Company. Deceptive and dishonest run-around 'answers' say the exact opposite, in fact.

That's not a good thing for the Company at all.

And they should consider this.

EDIT

As of recently, they have given a more satisfactory response and admitted that their answer was not wholly forward but stated reasons that seem more acceptable to us than just the beating around the bush responses. Their answer actually stated that at the moment they couldn't really answer because they weren't sure themselves.

While this doesn't really fully restore our faith in the stability of the game, it does make us feel slightly better about the Company itself.

This in turn makes us far more likely to stick with the Company, even through tough times.

So well done, Zenimax. You turned a Customer Service disappointment into something considerably better.

What was the question?

I can only assume you didn't include it because you know that any halfway rational person would understand why it wasn't answered.

DireKit · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

What was the question?

I can only assume you didn't include it because you know that any halfway rational person would understand why it wasn't answered.

We didn't include it because it seemed rude and disrespectful to the Company and potentially subversive to air the question in public. We only provided as much information as was needed to explain why We were frustrated and provide adequate feedback.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

DireKit wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

What was the question?

I can only assume you didn't include it because you know that any halfway rational person would understand why it wasn't answered.

We didn't include it because it seemed rude and disrespectful to the Company and potentially subversive to air the question in public. We only provided as much information as was needed to explain why We were frustrated.

Are you also royalty?

If you understand that the question is overly harsh/leading/ridiculous, why do you think you deserve an answer from ZO?

Adramelach · June 2014

I was doing fine until I completed the main AD story and got sent to Veteran Ebonheart, where i discovered the difficulty ratchets up to "extreme" (for me, I'm not a "leet" player but had no difficulty with 1-50), kills give so little Veteran Points that I literally laughed out loud the first time I saw it (something like 106 points... out of 456,000), and they also provide zero xp for skill advancement.

Hence, I realized that in order to continue advancing my skill trees, I'd have to A.) Quest, which would be fine if it wasn't do damn difficult and arduous, or B.) Wander back to Coldharbour and revisit my old "grinding" spots to kill stuff over and over and harvest chests for skill-advancing xp (that, in turn, would provide me with zero Veteran Points for leveling).

So... I found all of that pretty enervating after just an hour, and haven't logged back in since... am finally working on some quests I'd left behind a while ago in Star Trek Online though, so that's the good news

Lodestar · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Wanna comment on the Respec issue real fast. The reason the Respecs are so costly is due to the nature of the game they are trying to instill. Choices have consequences. You have to make a LOT of choices about your character and they effect your playstyle are you going to be a healer, tank, or a DPS. What kinda gear your going to wear and master.

And yet, they make this self defeating, on their premise they is going to be about builds. They know casual players are coming here by the truckload, and unless ZOS thinks casual players are innately born with this ability (they aren't I can assure you that), mistakes will be made, people will have different interpretations of skills and abilities, nerfs and changes happened.

And we still have bugs to some of them, and no acknowledgement has been given on those latter points. Until well after the fact, and not even a free respec (which they ought to have got).

If your going to make choices have consequences, your going to have to make allowances, for the casual player, who really does not want to look at build guides every few weeks, nor understands it should be part of the deal, along with a multitude of add-ons.

The devs can not have it both ways, as the declining players are showing.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Lodestar wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Wanna comment on the Respec issue real fast. The reason the Respecs are so costly is due to the nature of the game they are trying to instill. Choices have consequences. You have to make a LOT of choices about your character and they effect your playstyle are you going to be a healer, tank, or a DPS. What kinda gear your going to wear and master.

And yet, they make this self defeating, on their premise they is going to be about builds. They know casual players are coming here by the truckload, and unless ZOS thinks casual players are innately born with this ability (they aren't I can assure you that), mistakes will be made, people will have different interpretations of skills and abilities, nerfs and changes happened.

And we still have bugs to some of them, and no acknowledgement has been given on those latter points. Until well after the fact, and not even a free respec (which they ought to have got).

If your going to make choices have consequences, your going to have to make allowances, for the casual player, who really does not want to look at build guides every few weeks, nor understands it should be part of the deal, along with a multitude of add-ons.

The devs can not have it both ways, as the declining players are showing.

1) You have no idea whether the playerbase is declining, increasing or staying steady. You don't know. You can't know. Stop posting speculation as fact.

2) I'm a casual. Just like most other players. It is precisely because I don't spend all my time looking at ridiculous spreadsheet guides and flavor-of-the-month builds that I like the respec cost. I've only felt the need to respec once, and it was because I decided to try out adding resto staff to my repertoire. It's actually "hardcore" min/maxers who are most upset about respec costs, because those are the players who constantly feel the need to change their skills around instead of just playing their build.

Anrik · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

[*] Veteral levels are absurdly difficult to level.

This is a matter of opinion. I think they are just about right.

Yajnho · June 2014

They should be communicating with us HERE, not on reddit.

Adramelach · June 2014

Anrik wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

[*] Veteral levels are absurdly difficult to level.

This is a matter of opinion. I think they are just about right.

I agree with OP: for me, they are ridiculously difficult. I was able to get through the end-game in Coldharbour without dying once, I'm not completely useless at playing, but the V content has beaten me down hard and I have little motivation to play it. It's far, far to difficult to be able to enjoy the story and move through the plots and quests at an enjoyable rate for me.

Swordguy · June 2014

yeah, it is interesting about balance as OP pointed out. I know for a fact that rebalance in an mmo is endless, as there will always be the fotm builds for pvp and endgame raid content that pigeon holes everyone, regardless of what is changed.

a lot of work has gone into balance so far that will never end imo, but there are aspects of the game that should have been left in the oven a bit longer, especially when it comes to teaming, guilds and UI.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Adramelach wrote: »

Anrik wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

[*] Veteral levels are absurdly difficult to level.

This is a matter of opinion. I think they are just about right.

I agree with OP: for me, they are ridiculously difficult. I was able to get through the end-game in Coldharbour without dying once, I'm not completely useless at playing, but the V content has beaten me down hard and I have little motivation to play it. It's far, far to difficult to be able to enjoy the story and move through the plots and quests at an enjoyable rate for me.

It's an MMO. Dying is how you learn how to play.

If you're dying, figure out what's causing it, and change up your tactics. It's really that simple.

Adramelach · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Adramelach wrote: »

Anrik wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

[*] Veteral levels are absurdly difficult to level.

This is a matter of opinion. I think they are just about right.

I agree with OP: for me, they are ridiculously difficult. I was able to get through the end-game in Coldharbour without dying once, I'm not completely useless at playing, but the V content has beaten me down hard and I have little motivation to play it. It's far, far to difficult to be able to enjoy the story and move through the plots and quests at an enjoyable rate for me.

It's an MMO. Dying is how you learn how to play.

If you're dying, figure out what's causing it, and change up your tactics. It's really that simple.

I disagree. It's not as if Zenimax has hit upon some metaphysical "magic balance" that is objectively perfect, and anyone that doesn't match well with it, is obviously "broken" or "untrained" or "whining".

Everyone has a different level of challenge they enjoy or wish to experience. You seem to be happy to hone your skills to some razor-edge of sharpness, to beat whatever challenge they throw at you. Your response would be the same if they raised the difficulty of every single mob to the hardest existing boss in the game, and raised the bosses yet again 10 times over to unprecedented heights of stratospheric difficulty - "well, you're just not playing right, learn how to play".

My point is I don't really have the desire or time to attempt to become a world-class, elite player who can e-sport my way through vet content using blindingly fast, hyper-reflex gymnastics and excruciatingly fine-tuned builds that min/max everything to the absolute limits of possibility, and where if I miss a single block, I'm wiped out, and have to start over.

I absolutely get that some folks LOVE this, and wonderful, I'm glad stuff exists for them. I am completely not one of them.

I believe that many ESO players are, unsurprisingly, former ES players of many former games in the franchise. I come from almost 20 years of it, starting in Daggerfall way back when. I love the stories and content, and I'm in it for the plot, the world experience, and the Elder Scrolls "feel" and world. I'm not a Dota-playing e-sport jockey with a tricked-out rig and stockpiles of energy drinks I can use to crank my metabolism and reflexes up to attack and destroy this content in a frenetic frenzy of expert showmanship. I'm just trying to progress through the story.

I guess my point is just this: If Zenimax's "plan" is to have casual players like me get through 1-50 on an alt or two, complete the story, and then shrug, be done, unsubscribe, and move on to other pastures while we wait for the next 'installment' of ES content (perhaps another single-player game) then great, they should let me and the rest of us know that, so we can pack up our stuff and go, and leave the elite, e-sport-style hyper-competitive content to others that like that kind of thing.

If, however, they would like to retain players like myself, long-standing ES fans that have been with Elder Scrolls for a decade or two, and would love to continue in ESO, if only given content that's enjoyable and accessible for the less-than-elite players who are in it for story and plot, over DPS and "Build Optimization" then, I guess, my message them is: you're not doing it right.

Lodestar · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1) You have no idea whether the playerbase is declining, increasing or staying steady. You don't know. You can't know. Stop posting speculation as fact.

I DO KNOW. And I will continue to post whatever I please on forums that ask me to, so long as I remain in the conduct standards. You should stop trying to make others post only what you want to read.

I have elsewhere, suggest there are other reasons for the drop in active players. Which may not even be related to ESO directly. I have logged on myself breifly for crafting and hireling parcels for a week due to RL and watching World Cup. Others may be doing the same, or playing Wildstar.

We have had this out before. Your a poster who speculates and makes far more blanket statements per day, than I have since being here. You seem incapable of saying even valid points, without some passive aggressive personal insult. And you even tried to make excuses for it, in one post because, as a programmer you felt personally involved on one subject, that entitled you to be nasty to others, because you felt others had been mean to you in the past. Reality check, no excuse for rudeness. And you have done it on almost every thread I have seen you on. So I doubt that is the reason.