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Our game to lose
badmojo
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I see a lot of people implying that if this games subscribers dwindles down, ZOS is going out of business and the game is going free to play or will just shut down. This makes me laugh.
Obviously ZOS & their parent company ZeniMax Media want this game to do well, they want to sell millions of copies and have millions of subs paying every month. They've probably put down a lot of money to develop this game, and are spending countless amounts of money to keep developing and maintaining it.
But, let's not kid ourselves. ZOS isn't some indie developer, who is relying on our subs to stay afloat. I honestly believe they could turn around and shut down ESO tomorrow, and ZeniMax Media would be fine. They're a filthy rich company, who has probably already gotten back most of their investment, simply from all the sales of this game. Not to mention, the console version hasn't even released yet, there's even more money in the bank for them, a lot of money, after all console gaming is a bigger money maker than PC gaming, let's not forget that.
My point is that even if ESO dwindled down to 1000 active players, they have no reason to go free to play, they have no reason to close up shop. They could simply scale back their servers to accommodate the lesser demand, and they would still be making money off those 1000 people. That's the thing with online games, the players cost the money, if there are fewer players, the servers will cost less.
So, it's my opinion that this community needs to start to recognize that this is now OUR game to lose. This game now exists to entertain its subscribers. Threatening to leave and bad mouthing the developers over every little bit of criticism is only going to hurt the thing you want to be entertained by.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be giving our feedback, & criticizing faults in the game. I'm saying that when you attempt to hurt Zenimax by throwing a tantrum, taking your ball and going home, you're actually hurting the community(the other players). From a business standpoint Zenimax doesn't care, they already made $60(or $80) off you.
Edited by badmojo on June 14, 2014 10:41AM Obviously ZOS & their parent company ZeniMax Media want this game to do well, they want to sell millions of copies and have millions of subs paying every month. They've probably put down a lot of money to develop this game, and are spending countless amounts of money to keep developing and maintaining it.
But, let's not kid ourselves. ZOS isn't some indie developer, who is relying on our subs to stay afloat. I honestly believe they could turn around and shut down ESO tomorrow, and ZeniMax Media would be fine. They're a filthy rich company, who has probably already gotten back most of their investment, simply from all the sales of this game. Not to mention, the console version hasn't even released yet, there's even more money in the bank for them, a lot of money, after all console gaming is a bigger money maker than PC gaming, let's not forget that.
My point is that even if ESO dwindled down to 1000 active players, they have no reason to go free to play, they have no reason to close up shop. They could simply scale back their servers to accommodate the lesser demand, and they would still be making money off those 1000 people. That's the thing with online games, the players cost the money, if there are fewer players, the servers will cost less.
So, it's my opinion that this community needs to start to recognize that this is now OUR game to lose. This game now exists to entertain its subscribers. Threatening to leave and bad mouthing the developers over every little bit of criticism is only going to hurt the thing you want to be entertained by.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be giving our feedback, & criticizing faults in the game. I'm saying that when you attempt to hurt Zenimax by throwing a tantrum, taking your ball and going home, you're actually hurting the community(the other players). From a business standpoint Zenimax doesn't care, they already made $60(or $80) off you.
[DC/NA]
24
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Bryong9ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭You know what's really sad? People were talking trash on this game before the beta even came out. People started judging this game before they even had a clue what it was going to be like. I think people had way to high of expectations for this game. I ignored it all and went into this game free of others opinions and guess what?, I love it. I enjoy playing this game and I'm looking forward to all it will offer in the future. Its just sad that the majority of people are arrogant spoiled a-holes that expect way to much.20 -
MaxBat✭✭✭Which is why the smart kids didn't buy the game ..."Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."
Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...11 -
sajackson✭✭✭There are enough people enjoying the game so don't worry about it.
Haters will keep hating.7 -
Swordguy✭✭✭The best example is Anarchy Online which released in 2001 and started development in 1995, with probably subs under 10k atm, are still $15 a month, and Funcom is dirt poor.
totally agree. people saying that the wealthiest and most profitable private gaming company around is going to sink because ESO was a crappy 1st mmo? yeah... not gonna happen.Edited by Swordguy on June 14, 2014 1:03AMIN SOVIET RUSSIA, GUN LOADS YOU!
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭The best example is Anarchy Online, with probably subs under 10k, are still $15 a month, and Funcom is dirt poor.
totally agree. people saying that the wealthiest and most profitable private gaming company around is going to sink because ESO was a crappy 1st mmo? yeah... not gonna happen.
Where are these mythical post stating that the company is going to sink? All that I have read is that this specific game is failing. I believe the interpretation to be more along the lines as failing from what is expected from an MMO.
Financially failing as far as what the goal for this particular title is? Who can say? Not any of us unless Zenimax releases their sales number which they most likely will not do. If they do then that means they see the game as a financial success and want to promote more growth. If they don't then we can all assume the rest.
Anyhow, I do not see the company as a sinking ship, failing or however you want to term it. They have too many solid IP's for that. This specific title however could be a first for them.
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man, don't understand the hate on this game, its pretty fun. Lots to do ,looks great , the "mmo over analyzers" and "locusts" need to really tone it down. Every game has issues, that hopefully get worked out. I don't understand folks who cant just enjoy this game for what it is instead of what its not(to them)
im not a fan boy.I play tons of games, mmo's and non mmos alike, have played dozens of mmos......this is an awesome game
haters need to give it a rest and just go away ............9 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Rodoscrolls wrote: »man, don't understand the hate on this game, its pretty fun. Lots to do ,looks great , the "mmo over analyzers" and "locusts" need to really tone it down. Every game has issues, that hopefully get worked out. I don't understand folks who cant just enjoy this game for what it is instead of what its not(to them)
im not a fan boy.I play tons of games, mmo's and non mmos alike, have played dozens of mmos......this is an awesome game
haters need to give it a rest and just go away ............
Because those people paid for a product and feel that they did not get what that product said it would deliver. They have just as much right to vent and complain as you do to (over)hype it up.6 -
Leesha✭✭✭The same kind of negativity has been spread on other game forums for years. These exact same cries of gloom and doom have been posted on the wow forums for... what.. 10 years now?
I believe these people are a special breed of gamers who set out to verbally destroy every game they don't have the skill to play the way it was intended. These are the same people who act like their mother was just murdered when they see patch notes stating their class/spec is getting adjusted down to be more in line with others. These are the people who cannot under any circumstances adjust to the changes because they need a big I WIN button to find anything fun. They are absolutely miserable (or that's what they display at least) and want to rally the masses because they feel their one small voice isn't being heard.9 -
MaxBat✭✭✭
Am I saying I'm stupid? No, I'm not stupid. But since you asked, Badmojo, let's consider the very business plan you outlined in your original post.
If you want to play TESO, you have to buy the game. You HAVE to buy it. There's no demo, no way to test it, nothing. You want to play, you have to pay $60 or $80 dollars or whatever. You pay, you play. You don't, you won't.
You keeping up?
So once you pay for it, you're stuck with it. Your money's gone and you're not getting a refund. Now you have to pay a subscription fee. So it isn't even that you pay for the purchase of the game, you're now out a monthly fee. And if you did what I did and trusted Zenimax, you paid for six months, taking advantage of the discount.
Now I'm out over a hundred dollars. You still keeping up?
Then every couple of weeks, Zenimax makes some significant change in gameplay ... all in the name of leveling or balancing. A group of people complain on a forum, and they nerf. Another group complains and they nerf again. And so on. They keep changing things until the game isn't even what it was when it was when they first released it. So it doesn't even matter that I got in at pre-launch because in all the nerfing, Zenimax had completely screwed up my original character(s). And that's not to mention the other changes that came afterwards.
The thing is: I think you're right on. I think the price mark of this game was designed to ensure that - whatever happened - Zenimax wouldn't loose money. That's why there was no demo. Because if people got in and saw what the game was like, they wouldn't buy it. They surely wouldn't have the sales they have otherwise.
Then along comes someone telling me it's my responsibility to fix this mess.
It's as if I'm watching a really crappy television program and now someone is telling me: Maxbat, you can't stop watching. What's more, you can't complain about watching. You just have to sit here and keep watching and keep your mouth shut about how bad it is because, you know, we want to watch.
Believe you me, if this game goes under, it won't be because people weren't "nice enough" to Zenimax. I'm sorry, guy, but I paid for the game, just like you did, and I feel like I've been nice enough already.Edited by MaxBat on June 14, 2014 1:18AM"Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."
Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...11 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭The same kind of negativity has been spread on other game forums for years. These exact same cries of gloom and doom have been posted on the wow forums for... what.. 10 years now?
I believe these people are a special breed of gamers who set out to verbally destroy every game they don't have the skill to play the way it was intended. These are the same people who act like their mother was just murdered when they see patch notes stating their class/spec is getting adjusted down to be more in line with others. These are the people who cannot under any circumstances adjust to the changes because they need a big I WIN button to find anything fun. They are absolutely miserable (or that's what they display at least) and want to rally the masses because they feel their one small voice isn't being heard.
Pot meet kettle. Why is it ok to cleverly insult a group of players who view things differently? Who may not experience the game or the way it is played as you do? I am not arguing that balances/nerfs/fixes do not need to be applied but that it is not fair for them to be silenced no matter how loud and abrasive they may be. They still have a right to voice their unhappiness with the product they purchase.
The majority of the time they are expressing discontent with the developers, especially early on in release, yet we still see posts like this belittling what they feel and experience in the game.5 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭
I read one post in that thread that was stating ZOS was going out of business. Let's be honest, if you bought what that poster was trying to say then I have something I would like to sell you as well.
In any case, that post was quickly shot down and discredited. So again I ask where are these mythical threads you speak of?3 -
Everything you stated here pretty much applies to every MMO that has come out, and every future MMO still to come. Whether those games were a hit or a miss does not matter, because in the end, it's the individual's money, and they have a right to spend it however they wish.
Calling people stupid because they choose to spend their money on what they deem enjoyable (or not) is really disrespectful and childish.
How would you like it if people were to start berating you because of the choice of food you eat, movies you watch, etc, simply because in their opinion it was a stupid thing to do? Wouldn't feel very nice, would it?
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Fleymark✭✭✭✭✭Nothing wrong with taking a chance on a new game. Never know till you try it.
But never EVER buy multi month subscriptions until you know for sure. Actually, usually not in the first year or two. It's worth paying double knowing you can walk at anytime with any patch etc. Too many promising games have bad releases or go thru sweeping changes early on to chance it. You need to know you can trust the dev team first, if ever.Edited by Fleymark on June 14, 2014 1:29AM4 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭Personally, I think that 1-50 is well worth the original cost (and is highly discounted now). My recommendation to new players is play the hell out of the 1-50 with alt characters and move along to the next games. UNLESS you are dedicated MMOer. For Elder Scrolls/Single player types, move on.
VR and CragCrap ain't worth the monthly sub for the latter groups. 1-50 is a work of art to me, after that garbage (maybe art to someone). To each their own."Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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sajackson✭✭✭I don't have an issue with people not liking the game, they can always cancel their subs whenever they want.
I just wish they wouldn't post trying to tell everyone else that they should quit as well. Plenty of us are still enjoying the game.
If you don't like the game you know what you need to do. Don't make a drama out of it as well.7 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
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I read one post in that thread that was stating ZOS was going out of business. Let's be honest, if you bought what that poster was trying to say then I have something I would like to sell you as well.
In any case, that post was quickly shot down and discredited. So again I ask where are these mythical threads you speak of?
So now they need to be whole threads dedicated to it?
I gave you an example, if you don't like that one, go find another. I have a hard time believing you've never seen someone suggest that this game will go free to play because it's not making enough money. Really? Never?[DC/NA]2 -
sajackson✭✭✭
I read one post in that thread that was stating ZOS was going out of business. Let's be honest, if you bought what that poster was trying to say then I have something I would like to sell you as well.
In any case, that post was quickly shot down and discredited. So again I ask where are these mythical threads you speak of?
So now they need to be whole threads dedicated to it?
I gave you an example, if you don't like that one, go find another. I have a hard time believing you've never seen someone suggest that this game will go free to play because it's not making enough money. Really? Never?
It might go f2p, but not for several years at least.
Commercially Zeni need to recoup a lot of development capital. They would simply fold if they tried to go f2p now.0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »Personally, I think that 1-50 is well worth the original cost (and is highly discounted now). My recommendation to new players is play the hell out of the 1-50 with alt characters and move along to the next games. UNLESS you are dedicated MMOer. For Elder Scrolls/Single player types, move on.
VR and CragCrap ain't worth the monthly sub for the latter groups. 1-50 is a work of art to me, after that garbage (maybe art to someone). To each their own.
i have to concur with this.. 1-50 was epic fun for me. well worth the box price.. i have no regrets there. after that its just been downhill sadly.
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sajackson✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »Personally, I think that 1-50 is well worth the original cost (and is highly discounted now). My recommendation to new players is play the hell out of the 1-50 with alt characters and move along to the next games. UNLESS you are dedicated MMOer. For Elder Scrolls/Single player types, move on.
VR and CragCrap ain't worth the monthly sub for the latter groups. 1-50 is a work of art to me, after that garbage (maybe art to someone). To each their own.
i have to concur with this.. 1-50 was epic fun for me. well worth the box price.. i have no regrets there. after that its just been downhill sadly.
For you.3 -
Swordguy✭✭✭
Am I saying I'm stupid? No, I'm not stupid. But since you asked, Badmojo, let's consider the very business plan you outlined in your original post.
If you want to play TESO, you have to buy the game. You HAVE to buy it. There's no demo, no way to test it, nothing. You want to play, you have to pay $60 or $80 dollars or whatever. You pay, you play. You don't, you won't.
You keeping up?
So once you pay for it, you're stuck with it. Your money's gone and you're not getting a refund. Now you have to pay a subscription fee. So it isn't even that you pay for the purchase of the game, you're now out a monthly fee. And if you did what I did and trusted Zenimax, you paid for six months, taking advantage of the discount.
Now I'm out over a hundred dollars. You still keeping up?
Then every couple of weeks, Zenimax makes some significant change in gameplay ... all in the name of leveling or balancing. A group of people complain on a forum, and they nerf. Another group complains and they nerf again. And so on. They keep changing things until the game isn't even what it was when it was when they first released it. So it doesn't even matter that I got in at pre-launch because in all the nerfing, Zenimax had completely screwed up my original character(s). And that's not to mention the other changes that came afterwards.
The thing is: I think you're right on. I think the price mark of this game was designed to ensure that - whatever happened - Zenimax wouldn't loose money. That's why there was no demo. Because if people got in and saw what the game was like, they wouldn't buy it. They surely wouldn't have the sales they have otherwise.
Then along comes someone telling me it's my responsibility to fix this mess.
It's as if I'm watching a really crappy television program and now someone is telling me: Maxbat, you can't stop watching. What's more, you can't complain about watching. You just have to sit here and keep watching and keep your mouth shut about how bad it is because, you know, we want to watch.
Believe you me, if this game goes under, it won't be because people weren't "nice enough" to Zenimax. I'm sorry, guy, but I paid for the game, just like you did, and I feel like I've been nice enough already.
the short of it is this:
- you paid money for a product that didn't deliver what was advertised before-hand. (so did I)
- Zenimax probably has made development money back already on PC alone, before console release happens in summer/fall of 2015. ($180M development cost = $60 * 300,000 non-imperial edition purchases)
- Graphics are equal to 2005 AAA mmo's, and even worse.
- Antagonizing trolls that post in the ESO forums (including this thread) are either
A) Zen employees
RL losers
C) drunk/high/slowly dying
- Zenimax is using PC gamers to pay for development costs, and beta test the game to weed out bugs and exploits before they can launch on console.
- Zenimax is the wealthiest private gaming company around, created by Bethesda Softworks founder to ensure funding for its projects. why is it the wealthiest private gaming company? Look at ESO, and you have your answer.
- ESO was released a year early on PC, in order to ensure that the Console versions were polished.
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but this is how business operates on a large scale.IN SOVIET RUSSIA, GUN LOADS YOU!
Do you Troll bait?
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭
I read one post in that thread that was stating ZOS was going out of business. Let's be honest, if you bought what that poster was trying to say then I have something I would like to sell you as well.
In any case, that post was quickly shot down and discredited. So again I ask where are these mythical threads you speak of?
So now they need to be whole threads dedicated to it?
I gave you an example, if you don't like that one, go find another. I have a hard time believing you've never seen someone suggest that this game will go free to play because it's not making enough money. Really? Never?
Wait. You said that you've seen lots in reference to the company sinking. I disputed that and you provided one thread with one post that was really not very good in supporting your argument. Now you switch to the argument of whether or not the game goes Free to Play and if I have seen posts on that subject?
So which is it, sinking company or free to play?1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think as customers the most important thing we can do aside from buy the product or service, is to give feedback on what works and what does not work.4 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wait. You said that you've seen lots in reference to the company sinking. I disputed that and you provided one thread with one post that was really not very good in supporting your argument. Now you switch to the argument of whether or not the game goes Free to Play and if I have seen posts on that subject?
So which is it, sinking company or free to play?
One is a result of the other. At least from the perspective of the people I've seen saying it.
It's a common thought that this game will eventually go free to play because they need to recoup losses.
Did you not even read my OP?I see a lot of people implying that if this games subscribers dwindles down, ZOS is going out of business and the game is going free to play or will just shut down. This makes me laugh.
I'm not flip flopping here when you call me out. I'm just too lazy to dig up examples for you to turn your nose up at. Like you already did.
Edited by badmojo on June 14, 2014 2:33AM[DC/NA]4 -
Dayv✭✭✭✭There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.6