Our game to lose

Blackwidow · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

My point is that even if ESO dwindled down to 1000 active players, they have no reason to go free to play, they have no reason to close up shop.

I read the whole post.

I have to say I think you don't have a real grasp how things work in the business.

If you really believe that if they got down to 1000 players they would not be shut down, I can't help ya.

Threatening to leave and bad mouthing the developers over every little bit of criticism is only going to hurt the thing you want to be entertained by.

Just like "go back to wow!" "If you don't like it, leave!" probably does not set a good tone.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be giving our feedback, & criticizing faults in the game.

Good to know.

I'm saying that when you attempt to hurt Zenimax by throwing a tantrum, taking your ball and going home, you're actually hurting the community(the other players). From a business standpoint Zenimax doesn't care, they already made $60(or $80) off you.

I think there are a lot less tantrums than constructive posts, but I'm sure a lot of die hard ESO fans would disagree.

This was a very friendly, "stop QQing" thread. No, seriously, I think you put it in a really polite way and I appreciate that.

However, at the end of the day, it will be ESO's systems and the stability of the game that will make it or break it.

Have a nice day.

Dayv · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.

Relax. It's only a video game and yes they do come to an end.

I was relaxed until I realised people were reading non-existent desperation into it.

Mablung · June 2014

Dayv wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.

Relax. It's only a video game and yes they do come to an end.

I was relaxed until I realised people were reading non-existent desperation into it.

What does that even mean? If you do not like what someone posts, counter instead of trolling or making a post with some feeble flame attempt.

Dayv · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.

Relax. It's only a video game and yes they do come to an end.

I was relaxed until I realised people were reading non-existent desperation into it.

What does that even mean? If you do not like what someone posts, counter instead of trolling or making a post with some feeble flame attempt.

Simply put, people are speculating on things that they don't have anywhere near enough evidence about to draw a reasonable conclusion.

Mablung · June 2014

Dayv wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.

Relax. It's only a video game and yes they do come to an end.

I was relaxed until I realised people were reading non-existent desperation into it.

What does that even mean? If you do not like what someone posts, counter instead of trolling or making a post with some feeble flame attempt.

Simply put, people are speculating on things that they don't have anywhere near enough evidence about to draw a reasonable conclusion.

Maybe so, but just simply stating that puts you in the same category.

badmojo · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

My point is that even if ESO dwindled down to 1000 active players, they have no reason to go free to play, they have no reason to close up shop.

I read the whole post.

I have to say I think you don't have a real grasp how things work in the business.

If you really believe that if they got down to 1000 players they would not be shut down, I can't help ya.

If you read it again, you'll notice I didn't say they would not shut it down, I said they would have no reason to. Obviously nobody can know(except ZOS) what they would do in that situation. But, I'm curious why you think dwindling down to a thousand active players would mean the game has to shut down. Why wouldn't they continue to make money off those thousand players? That's still $15,000 a month.

I'm not saying they could continue to develop at the same rate, or host servers at the same scale we have now. But, the game could still run on only a few servers with no updates, as long as people are willing to pay for it.

Dayv · June 2014

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.

Relax. It's only a video game and yes they do come to an end.

I was relaxed until I realised people were reading non-existent desperation into it.

What does that even mean? If you do not like what someone posts, counter instead of trolling or making a post with some feeble flame attempt.

Simply put, people are speculating on things that they don't have anywhere near enough evidence about to draw a reasonable conclusion.

Maybe so, but just simply stating that puts you in the same category.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're getting at. Possibly you're trying to indicate that you think there's something self-contradictory in my statement. That's my best guess even though I can't see it. Whatever your point is, I really don't want to pursue it any further because I get the feeling you're just looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

Mablung · June 2014

So after your initial troll post, it is I who wants to argue for the sake of arguing?

Dayv wrote: »

There's a guy in the middle of every town centre with a megaphone and a banner telling us the world is going to end soon. Nearly everyone knows he isn't privy to anymore information than the rest of us.

And yet you continued to post and see nothing contradictory with your statement. Fair enough.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

Deppends on the company really SWTOR , had a bigger franchise , had the bigger fish behind , Bioware which is under EA , still went F2P.

ers101284b14_ESO · June 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Deppends on the company really SWTOR , had a bigger franchise , had the bigger fish behind , Bioware which is under EA , still went F2P.

Me and one guy talked about that when it first came out. I was like what if it sucks?. "He goes "Its Bioware and StarWars! how could it go wrong"

My Reply "Dragon age 2, Phantom menace"

Blackwidow · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

If you read it again, you'll notice I didn't say they would not shut it down, I said they would have no reason to.

First, saying they would have no reason to shut down, equates to they would not do it.

Second, they would have a reason to shut down. They only had 1,000 players!

Obviously nobody can know(except ZOS) what they would do in that situation.

Yes. Yes we do.

But, I'm curious why you think dwindling down to a thousand active players would mean the game has to shut down. Why wouldn't they continue to make money off those thousand players? That's still $15,000 a month.

One word. Overhead.

Kingslayer · June 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Deppends on the company really SWTOR , had a bigger franchise , had the bigger fish behind , Bioware which is under EA , still went F2P.

1. Zos is owned by zenimax media which is a massive privately owned company.
2. Bioware had the bigger franchise based on movies which have hadgod only knows how many failed games behind them.
3. ESO had a dedicated gaming franchise to work with, which has a significant fan base to it.
4. Just because star wars is a bigger franchise in the grand scheme of it doesn't mean it is in the gaming world.

That being said i believe this game will fail and fail hard at some point but the company won't, [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on insults] Edited because zos don't like negative comments which speak the truth They may even sell the game if the price and conditions are right.

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

MaxBat wrote: »

Maxbat, you can't stop watching. What's more, you can't complain about watching. You just have to sit here and keep watching and keep your mouth shut about how bad it is because, you know, we want to watch.

Kenthros · June 2014

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

You know what's really sad? People were talking trash on this game before the beta even came out. People started judging this game before they even had a clue what it was going to be like. I think people had way to high of expectations for this game. I ignored it all and went into this game free of others opinions and guess what?, I love it. I enjoy playing this game and I'm looking forward to all it will offer in the future. Its just sad that the majority of people are arrogant spoiled a-holes that expect way to much.

Some people started judging this game because we are super and I mean SUPER passionate about elder scrolls. I never looked at this game with other peoples views on YT or Twitch, I judged it right when i saw and heard about it. The opening video deemed them wrong right off the get go for me with the combat, as someone whose played a MMO you could almost make out the rotation move in combat which they were claiming wasn't going to be in the game. Then I saw the werewolf, what a joke, if you want a ferocious view of a werewolf where the sounds of the howling give you chills down your spine then look up some of the mods and see what I am talking about. Speaking of mods, with that part of the game elder scrolls is about being immersed in a world how YOU want to be. Want to try and stay alive against the cold of Skyrim while eating stew huddling near a campfire there is a mod for that. Want crazy animals running around and become a ninja with boobs the size of tractor wheels, guess what there is a mod for that. You play how you want to. That is a elder scrolls game, and I know from playing and enjoying MMOs how can you have that in a game like this, well you can't. Just from that I wasn't going to get into this game. Then my wife got into this beta and really enjoyed it, however from what i saw it looked horrible, still wasn't convinced. We also saw these other companies releasing MMOs for quick hype grab and drop after release sales which is what I figured what was going on here. I was not going to play this game at all. However the wife really really wanted to play so i had to get it. Once I tried it I really enjoyed the game play and really got into it, there are some things i don't agree with but i can look passed that because they are minor. I went into this game looking at it as a nice fantasy MMO not a elder scrolls game and once I look at it that way the game looks pretty nice. And yes if we are spoiled A holes because we love something as a community A LOT then so be it. I feel no shame in expecting nothing but the best when you make a game as groundbreaking as a elder scrolls game. In the end I am glad my wife pushed me to get it because it is a nice game and I have a lot of hope that the company decides to keep up with it.

/rant sorry just alot of horse crap typing.

GrimlockSaves · June 2014

"Inc."

This isn't Tamriel no matter how much you want to fantasize. This is the real world, and this is business.

Filthy rich stock holders want to be fed and won't settle for a return on investment. They will do anything to make more money.

If f2p would make more than subs, they'll do it. They're not going to decide to NOT make more money because they take pride in their work or because they are already rich.

Investors don't care about entertaining subscribers. They care about money and leave it up to the developers and the business to deliver. Businesses in these cases need to think quick, because investors don't stick around on a sinking ship.

indytims_ESO · June 2014

As usual, in every forum I've read for every MMO I've played, there will be a very vocal minority that whines/cries/sheds tears of angst because the game isn't what -they- envisioned it would be.

Well, for those people, all I can offer is to log in and knit them a spidersilk hanky to cry into... and show them the door.

There are folks enjoying the game. It's a common fact that folks who enjoy something DON'T usually waste their time going around saying how much they enjoy it on a forum - they're likely busy playing. Most "customer service" lines for most industries are used by folks who are upset - not by folks who are perfectly happy paying for and receiving what they expected. Angry folks want to be heard - content folks got what they paid for, and have no reason to sound off. This is common sense.

The vocal minority are those who are so full of angst/rage/tears that they come to forums (like this one) to wallow in misery with like-minded folks.

ESO is not 'going out of business'. The game has been out about 10 weeks. Players who come here touting the 'end of the world' are hilarious, and nothing more. They don't work for Zeni, and they don't have any sort of special insight into what's going on.

"The smart people didn't buy this game". LOL. Get a life. "Smart" people who "hate" this game wouldn't be wasting their life posting their drivel here on a daily basis.

Is Zeni 'sinking'? Do you work for Zeni? Have you seen fullproof evidence somewhere that they are? If not - why even bother spreading rumors? It doesn't benefit anyone.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

indytims_ESO wrote: »

As usual, in every forum I've read for every MMO I've played, there will be a very vocal minority that whines/cries/sheds tears of angst because the game isn't what -they- envisioned it would be.

Well, for those people, all I can offer is to log in and knit them a spidersilk hanky to cry into... and show them the door.

There are folks enjoying the game. It's a common fact that folks who enjoy something DON'T usually waste their time going around saying how much they enjoy it on a forum - they're likely busy playing. Most "customer service" lines for most industries are used by folks who are upset - not by folks who are perfectly happy paying for and receiving what they expected. Angry folks want to be heard - content folks got what they paid for, and have no reason to sound off. This is common sense.

The vocal minority are those who are so full of angst/rage/tears that they come to forums (like this one) to wallow in misery with like-minded folks.

ESO is not 'going out of business'. The game has been out about 10 weeks. Players who come here touting the 'end of the world' are hilarious, and nothing more. They don't work for Zeni, and they don't have any sort of special insight into what's going on.

"The smart people didn't buy this game". LOL. Get a life. "Smart" people who "hate" this game wouldn't be wasting their life posting their drivel here on a daily basis.

Is Zeni 'sinking'? Do you work for Zeni? Have you seen fullproof evidence somewhere that they are? If not - why even bother spreading rumors? It doesn't benefit anyone.

Nah to me it is people like you that make me laugh the most heh.

While i dont believe the game is going F2P for sure in the future and stuff like that , people that come and toss this , everything is fine , the forums is just a vocal minority , you can ignore their insatisfaction , blablabla...

I heard this so many times, in so many dif MMOs , know what almost all of those got in common?

They eventually did went F2P.

So yeah , this crap about how everything is always fine , there are for sure more than enough to keep the game going happy playing , blablabla...

That does not cut it anymore , people just are not fooled by it.

So yeah , maybe the game will go F2P , maybe it wont , but atleast people that say it will are making a good bet since most eventually do , while other saying it wont happen do seem just reaching and going against the huge odds right before them.

GrimlockSaves · June 2014

indytims_ESO wrote: »

As usual, in every forum I've read for every MMO I've played, there will be a very vocal minority that whines/cries/sheds tears of angst because the game isn't what -they- envisioned it would be.

Well, for those people, all I can offer is to log in and knit them a spidersilk hanky to cry into... and show them the door.

There are folks enjoying the game. It's a common fact that folks who enjoy something DON'T usually waste their time going around saying how much they enjoy it on a forum - they're likely busy playing. Most "customer service" lines for most industries are used by folks who are upset - not by folks who are perfectly happy paying for and receiving what they expected. Angry folks want to be heard - content folks got what they paid for, and have no reason to sound off. This is common sense.

The vocal minority are those who are so full of angst/rage/tears that they come to forums (like this one) to wallow in misery with like-minded folks.

ESO is not 'going out of business'. The game has been out about 10 weeks. Players who come here touting the 'end of the world' are hilarious, and nothing more. They don't work for Zeni, and they don't have any sort of special insight into what's going on.

"The smart people didn't buy this game". LOL. Get a life. "Smart" people who "hate" this game wouldn't be wasting their life posting their drivel here on a daily basis.

Is Zeni 'sinking'? Do you work for Zeni? Have you seen fullproof evidence somewhere that they are? If not - why even bother spreading rumors? It doesn't benefit anyone.

Chill man. All is well, don't be so mad and angry at people. They game will be good, the game will be good. Being rude doesn't solve anything. Take a chill pill and go farm Crow's Wood to cool down.

hk11 · June 2014

Im sure there are enough people who like playing casters to keep it afloat.

Loco_Mofo · June 2014

Still have plenty of people that haven't reach VR yet, so there's those folks too.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

Dayv wrote: »

Simply put, people are speculating on things that they don't have anywhere near enough evidence about to draw a reasonable conclusion.

So?

sajackson · June 2014

There seems to be an assumption in the community that if they say f2p enough on the forums it will happen.

Fact is to go f2p would mean operating the game at a huge loss. In all likelihood they would just close it down and cut their losses.

I don't believe we're even remotely near to that happening though.

Mablung · June 2014

sajackson wrote: »

There seems to be an assumption in the community that if they say f2p enough on the forums it will happen.

Fact is to go f2p would mean operating the game at a huge loss. In all likelihood they would just close it down and cut their losses.

I don't believe we're even remotely near to that happening though.

For everyone who thinks that F2P is in the near future (within 6mos) here is why it will not happen.

Game is being developed for console.
Game is still in beta
No mention of micro transactions as part of the future of ESO
Bethesda - The sugar daddy for ZOS
Nothing to sell in an ingame store - game needs serious itemization overhaul and cosmetic features.

I am sure I missed others but if they want a F2P model to work, they have to have a plan that makes it more profitable to keep it in development and show some sort of positive gain over the active subscriptions.

fredarbonab14_ESO · June 2014

^^^ "Because those people paid for a product and feel that they did not get what that product said it would deliver. They have just as much right to vent and complain as you do to (over)hype it up."

Really what expectations are those? If the game doesn't meet them, don't play it, but YOUR expectations are YOUR mental creation, no one else's. And there is no inherent 'right' extended to a subscriber to vent and complain as you see fit, IF the company who ~owns~ this forum deems them to be more a negative than a positive. Judging by these forums now, many may be hesitant to play the game, judging by what fun people are having INSIDE this packed game, few would not want to continue to play it.

kevlarto_ESO · June 2014

babylon wrote: »

I think as customers the most important thing we can do aside from buy the product or service, is to give feedback on what works and what does not work.

I agree, reporting bugs, giving contructive feedback, suggestions for new features, is something we should be doing as a fan of the game.

We do not know how many subs ZOS is shooting for to be in the profit range they desire, and since they are a private company we will never know, they don't have to tell us

Gloom and Doom comes with every game made these day it seems, for some reason there is a loud minority, that thinks being on the hate train is cool or somethign silly like that..

Dayv · June 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Simply put, people are speculating on things that they don't have anywhere near enough evidence about to draw a

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Dayv wrote: »

Simply put, people are speculating on things that they don't have anywhere near enough evidence about to draw a reasonable conclusion.

So?

So it really doesn't mean jack if someone on this forum is saying the game's going to be going in 10 years or it's going to close by the end of the month.

ThisOnePosts · June 2014

I agree with the OP to the point that it is OUR game, however I disagree with the OP saying how ZOS doesn't care. Of course they do, they aren't looking at % they are looking at overall profit and a happy player base = more secure profits over a longer period of time. That is in everyone's best interest, ZOS and ours included.

Aeradon · June 2014

Agreed. In fact MMO presence is so important to Zenimax that they acquired and are starting up a new studio, with another MMO in development.

Should they want to shut down ESO, they already have a back up plan to utilize the servers and whatever resources they have.

Even if ESO makes Zen lose few millions per annum, they would keep the game up just to not lose the fame of the franchise. It's an ES game after all. Just like how FF never lose.

Morticielle · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Obviously ZOS & their parent company ZeniMax Media want this game to do well, they want to sell millions of copies and have millions of subs paying every month.

Please link the sources for the numbers of subscribers. Without links to sources your words are only ramblings of a fanboy.

steveb16_ESO46 · June 2014

The word 'want' does not imply 'is' so there's no requirement for him to provide numbers.

We don't know what the numbers are. All we know is that Zenimax certainly aren't bragging about them.