Bolt Escape/Streak

AshleyLee · June 2014

As a sorcerer and Streak user, I am ok with the change. I have tested on the PTS, which is open to everybody now, and it seems to work as newly described. The tooltip even updates during the 4 seconds to the higher cost. if u keep using it within 4sec, it stays at the higher cost, so the "timer" resets each time u use it within a 4second period. But it does NOT go above the 50% increase from your base.

Update: The 50% calcuation is "bugged". My cost of streak is 220, with passives and 2 pieces of jewerly. 50% more should be 330. But its 399. I removed jewerly to see if those change the calucation and it is still more than 50%. I also verified its not a tooltip bug it does use what the tooltip says.

Nijjion · June 2014

So BE goes

220 -> 330 -> 330 -> 330

Sounded like it should work like this

220 -> 330 -> 495 -> 742.5.

IMO really as 330 cost isn't going to stop the problem everyone is worried about.

Slantasiam · June 2014

Nijjion wrote: »

So BE goes

220 -> 330 -> 330 -> 330

Sounded like it should work like this

220 -> 330 -> 495 -> 742.5.

IMO really as 330 cost isn't going to stop the problem everyone is worried about.

there never was a problem with it name one class a sorc could 1vs1 against now they cant kill anyone or run....

Nijjion · June 2014

@Slantasiam

DK, Temp, NB and Sorc... I named all 4 for you. The point of the problem is the potential is there because they have the mobility... no single class should have that kind of mobility in a RvR game... creates a very big imbalance to the dynamic and meta of the type of PvP.

Don't want the meta to be all sorcs when the DK hype is over due to nerfs. See this in GW2 where only the people with getaways and mobility have a chance in RvR.

NordJitsu · June 2014

It was a bad change.

Thank god it didn't mean a 50% increase on each cast.

Doesn't really matter though because the ability has already been rendered useless. All you whiney bads got your way.

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

It now halves your magicka regen for 4 secs AND increases the cost if cast again within 4 secs.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Really glad ZOS is keeping their promise about no cool downs. /sarcasm

jvh808 · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

It was a ad change.

Thank god it didn't mean a 50% increase on each cast.

Doesn't really matter though because the ability has already been rendered useless. All you whiney bads got your way.

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

It now halves your magicka regen for 4 secs AND increases the cost if cast again within 4 secs.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Really glad ZOS is keeping their promise about no cool downs. /sarcasm

Awesome way to look at things! This ability was making every sorcerer build out there, including the melee and stealth sorcs extremely OP'd and essentially causing PvP to not be fun whatsoever and if unchanged would in the long run destroy an entire aspect of the game, instead of simply making that ability cost more, which I think was the best way Zenimax could have played it on that skill. Way to be completely bias and empathetic! As far as your comment on a "cooldown," I have yet to see any cooldowns outside of potions and weapon glyphs...

Baskat · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

Interestingly a lot of Sorcs still use it.
So question is:

A. Are they stubborn, blind idiots using an "destroyed" ability?
B. Are you exaggerating?

Devlinne · June 2014

Hmmmm....so far in pvp(which is all i ever do) I notice no REAL change. Sorcs still disappearing into the sunset....
Well to be fair. More time and experience is needed on this. I'll see if i can get a few videos and such before i really say if this change was indeed a real fix or just a smoke bomb thrown to pacify ppl.

I've always been a firm believer in Videos of actual ingame occurances is better than all the amount of words put together in these forums....

Heishi · June 2014

You know, I've been seeing a lot of these popping up and I really don't understand the people complaining. I'll admit up front I don't actively play a sorc. I have one or two I've tested out but that's about it. My understanding from reading about the ability is that it's intended purpose, was to give you a quick escape out of melee range to give you time to get off another spell and continue fighting. Given the nerf to it, I suspect I am correct on their intent.

So given that, what we basically have is ability not being used for it's intended purpose, but to ride off into the sunset unscathed. For multiple use I could see it intended to keep popping around enemy keeping them at a distance. I could also see it useful to quickly get out of an AoE since you're average sorc type shouldn't really have a lot of stamina for dodge roll and block.

I could be entirely crazy here, but the patched BE seems like Zeni's attempt to push it more toward that kind of use.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

It was a bad change.

Thank god it didn't mean a 50% increase on each cast.

Doesn't really matter though because the ability has already been rendered useless. All you whiney bads got your way.

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

It now halves your magicka regen for 4 secs AND increases the cost if cast again within 4 secs.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Really glad ZOS is keeping their promise about no cool downs. /sarcasm

Where is the cooldown? I have never once seen the ability with a countdown to next use. If you have the mana you can use the skill there fore no CD thanks for your oh so wise opinion. So basically you are saying if I lack the resource to cast my skill at a particular moment it has a cooldown. ZOMG Zeni please take the CD off my abilities too and make my resources infinite so I can lay my face on the keyboard and roll it back and forth screaming iWin while trying to also bite my ear.

Also I would just like to point out for all the whining anyone else does you return it ten fold. Not sure if you realized that or not but I think its funny. You say this one ability makes or breaks the sorc class. As far as I knew you had two other class lines with skills on them as well like everyone else you have told to learn to play. Enjoy using them.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · June 2014

Baskat wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

Interestingly a lot of Sorcs still use it.
So question is:

A. Are they stubborn, blind idiots using an "destroyed" ability?
B. Are you exaggerating?

Good show sir you may have just taught him a lesson. He sounds like the DK's now. Nuuuuuuuuuuu you decreased the damage my superior OP ability used to do I used to wreck everybody. Now I can't kill anybody if the class isn't broken how I am I losing to noobs he says. Well the problem with the two most OP classes in this game is that the people playing them never really learned to play them to begin with. Your abilities had so much damage and utility or both that you never had to you got to spam 2 buttons and hold block while laying waste. Now that you actually have to support group dynamics you're lost. It's a long way to the top if you didn't learn your class the first time around.

xDonMega · June 2014

It was a bad change.

Just let your butthurt go over the weeks of QQ sorc escape, and just accept a bad change as a bad change..

It's that simple.

NordJitsu · June 2014

Baskat wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

Interestingly a lot of Sorcs still use it.
So question is:

A. Are they stubborn, blind idiots using an "destroyed" ability?
B. Are you exaggerating?

@Baskat‌

Well first of all, yes, there are a lot of blind idiots who don't know how to play and use terrible skills. Have you seen anyone using a pet? They are willfully gimping themself.

Second, the nerf hit exactly the wrong kind of Bolt Escaper. People can still use it well enough to run away. You can spam it enough times to get out of a fight often enough.

When I say it was destroyed, I mean that they destroyed the part that no one was complaining about which is using it in combat. The magicka penalties are so harsh that you'd have to be dumb (which many people are) to use this actively as part of a DPS build. You'd be so severely hurting your ability to do damage with your damage abilities (its already a DPS loss since you're choosing not to slot a DPS skil there) that it would be a terrible idea to use this in a fight.

Again, what they should have done was add Counterplay options. Using BE should remove CC immunity from any source, so that other players can effectively knock you down, stun you, ect. when you try to get away.

Nijjion · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

When I say it was destroyed, I mean that they destroyed the part that no one was complaining about which is using it in combat.

Well the main problem of it was sorcs getting away from ganks and losing fights on >10% health.... if that's not using it in combat I don't know what is.

wllstrt75b14_ESO · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Baskat wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

Interestingly a lot of Sorcs still use it.
So question is:

A. Are they stubborn, blind idiots using an "destroyed" ability?
B. Are you exaggerating?

@Baskat‌

Well first of all, yes, there are a lot of blind idiots who don't know how to play and use terrible skills. Have you seen anyone using a pet? They are willfully gimping themself.

Second, the nerf hit exactly the wrong kind of Bolt Escaper. People can still use it well enough to run away. You can spam it enough times to get out of a fight often enough.

When I say it was destroyed, I mean that they destroyed the part that no one was complaining about which is using it in combat. The magicka penalties are so harsh that you'd have to be dumb (which many people are) to use this actively as part of a DPS build. You'd be so severely hurting your ability to do damage with your damage abilities (its already a DPS loss since you're choosing not to slot a DPS skil there) that it would be a terrible idea to use this in a fight.

Again, what they should have done was add Counterplay options. Using BE should remove CC immunity from any source, so that other players can effectively knock you down, stun you, ect. when you try to get away.

I am confused or you are..BE was never used as a damage dealing ability, the name says it all.

You complained or someone did that they ruined the class with this? Sorcs can still do a ton of damage, What this did was prevent sorcs from running through a pac of 30 stunning everyone along the way then escaping into the sun set making them basically unkillable. When used in conjunction with timely ultimate s like standard that 1.5 second stun was devastating.

So they did solve one of the issues as you mentioned people would be foolish to use it other then escaping. Now they did not nerf it enough as really good players can still spam it 4-5 times and escape into the sunset even after getting a few offensive spells off, but I have no issues with very good players being smart.

And if CC worked on BE the whole point of BE would be useless as DK's would talon you to death like everyone else..your ideas are not well thought out.

Mystborn · June 2014

AshleyLee wrote: »

As a sorcerer and Streak user, I am ok with the change. I have tested on the PTS, which is open to everybody now, and it seems to work as newly described. The tooltip even updates during the 4 seconds to the higher cost. if u keep using it within 4sec, it stays at the higher cost, so the "timer" resets each time u use it within a 4second period. But it does NOT go above the 50% increase from your base.

Update: The 50% calcuation is "bugged". My cost of streak is 220, with passives and 2 pieces of jewerly. 50% more should be 330. But its 399. I removed jewerly to see if those change the calucation and it is still more than 50%. I also verified its not a tooltip bug it does use what the tooltip says.

How much % based Spell Cost Reduction do you have?

How much static Spell Cost Reduction do you have?

SteveCampsOut · June 2014

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

I am confused or you are..BE was never used as a damage dealing ability, the name says it all.

You complained or someone did that they ruined the class with this? Sorcs can still do a ton of damage, What this did was prevent sorcs from running through a pac of 30 stunning everyone along the way then escaping into the sun set making them basically unkillable. When used in conjunction with timely ultimate s like standard that 1.5 second stun was devastating.

Obviously you are confused when your first paragraph claims it was never used for damage and your second paragraph then goes on to explain exactly how it was used to cause damage! Drugs are bad! M'Kay?

NordJitsu · June 2014

Nijjion wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

When I say it was destroyed, I mean that they destroyed the part that no one was complaining about which is using it in combat.

Well the main problem of it was sorcs getting away from ganks and losing fights on >10% health.... if that's not using it in combat I don't know what is.

@Nijjion‌

I'd call that using it to get out of combat.

I'm referring to people who use BE to position in fights, deal damage (Streak), and CC.

Those are the people this nerf hits while the people who "get away from ganks and losing fights" are largely unaffected.

Drachdhar · June 2014

I'd say NordJitsu is right here. The nerf hurts people who use it(Streak) properly, whereas the escapers still escape. Because, lets face it, most sorcs can spam that ability enough to get away from anyone still at least 70% of the time.

Using it in combat as a tool to actually fight punishes you with halved magicka regen... This is an effective cost increase on every spell you cast.
Keep the cost increase, get rid of the mana regen hit.

Btw, dont even have a sorc thats high enough to use that skill yet. But since it was a skill I was looking forward to... Basically the only really cool ability that sorcs have for that matter.

Artis · June 2014

>>Again, what they should have done was add Counterplay options. Using BE should remove CC immunity from any source, so that other players can effectively knock you down, stun you, ect. when you try to get away.

But how would they do it if you are out of range already? Come up with other ideas.

Drachdhar · June 2014

Out of range? Get closer. Or just ignore the sorc, if its running away its not currently trying to kill you. And if it is in range to hurt your ass, you can just hurt it right back.
Seriously, chasing down one guy to kill it real good is always a bad tactical decision and especially if you are in a group. You might run into a trap, or you are just wasting time better spent capping an objective or dealing with actual threats.

Artis · June 2014

Get closer to a BE user? Do you understand what we are discussing here? the fight already started. He can do anything. Who said he's almost dead? He can blink to regen some resources and shoot some spells in you, then blink back for aoe.

There's no objective if he finds you in a random spot in Cyrodiil. and about you can hurt him back....
Don't even start about solo target DPS that sorc can deal.... No, you can't hurt him back. Especially if you're using a stamina build.

NordJitsu · June 2014

@Artemis‌

You shouldn't be able to counter anything 100% of the time. What you're asking for is to never lose a fight.

If the Sorc is already out of range, then no counter play option should exist. That's just absurd.

The point is, removing CC immunity when casting BE would allow players to prevent Sorcs from getting out of range in the first place much more often.

If you haven't slotted any ranged CC or fail to cast it in time then you lost. Same way that I lose if I shoot Crystal Fragments at a DK using Reflective Scales or a Templar using Eclipse or if I fail to break the stun when a NB hits me out of stealth.

Winning should require player action which is why counter play should have been the focus here rather than attacking the skill itself.

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

\

Artemis wrote: »

Get closer to a BE user? Do you understand what we are discussing here? the fight already started. He can do anything. Who said he's almost dead? He can blink to regen some resources and shoot some spells in you, then blink back for aoe.

There's no objective if he finds you in a random spot in Cyrodiil. and about you can hurt him back....
Don't even start about solo target DPS that sorc can deal.... No, you can't hurt him back. Especially if you're using a stamina build.

And you can't dps well why? seems to be a playstyle issue, not a sorc issue.

Sorc's "big single target damage" is very easily avoided by any class, just react in a timely manner and use interrupt/eclipse/reflect/stealth.

Artis · June 2014

@NordJitsu‌
But that's the thing. Ranged CC doesn't help. And I was replying to the post about "getting closer". Which I can't do..

Nijjion · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

When I say it was destroyed, I mean that they destroyed the part that no one was complaining about which is using it in combat.

Well the main problem of it was sorcs getting away from ganks and losing fights on >10% health.... if that's not using it in combat I don't know what is.

@Nijjion‌

I'd call that using it to get out of combat.

I'm referring to people who use BE to position in fights, deal damage (Streak), and CC.

Those are the people this nerf hits while the people who "get away from ganks and losing fights" are largely unaffected.

CC on the skill is one of the main problems with the skill as well, it's the main reason why the skill can get away from anyone, not sure which morph it is but it's unblockable... imo should be removed you have other skills such as a skill that does the highest single target DPS in the game that knockdowns at the same time, aoe root, shield that stuns and knockdowns. Plenty really.... using it for CC isn't an excuse or valid argument point to keep it unchanged.

I actually agree with you in a way but to stop the people who use it to get away all the time you would need to cut the usage down for the skill to about 2 times every 10 seconds.

How would you balance BE? and seriously be fair... because even 2 casts can get you away from the range of people. It's such a *** up skill to balance on with no cooldown and that's the only way I see it stopping people from using it as just a pure free get out of jail card all the time.

I was thinking something like a charge usage for BE. You start with 2-3 charges (pending balance tests), when BE is used it uses up a charge and un-nerfed magicka cost. For a charge to be reset a CD is put in place (4-10 seconds depending on balance tests). Though has said before 2-3 uses of BE in a row will get you out of most stuff unless, people are built for mobility themselves, maybe a longer cast time...I don't know, back to the drawing board I guess.

Obviously I should say we need to find the right balance as it should be a temporary get away but not make the skill totally pointless. With shield charge being on no cooldown and BE on no cooldown Zenimax really have a hard job on themselves. When blinks have cooldowns its so much easier to balance though I do enjoy ESO for no CDs.

Jaxom · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Baskat wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

Interestingly a lot of Sorcs still use it.
So question is:

A. Are they stubborn, blind idiots using an "destroyed" ability?
B. Are you exaggerating?

@Baskat‌

When I say it was destroyed, I mean that they destroyed the part that no one was complaining about which is using it in combat.

There was a Sorc using this in combat and completely destroying large groups of people. Hold down Block, spam Cast BE (while holding block), and casting the Invis Bats Ultimate (chain casting). You would just get bolted, stunned, killed between everything. Not much you can do about an invisible Sorc, bolting around while holding block. Fun times.

This was happening post Vampire nerf and pre BE nerf.