Make weapon and armour class specific

Ser Lobo · June 2014

We have different definitions of 'play', then. I think you're taking it far too literal. As with the 'what about goblins' analogy, you're now focusing entirely on specific skills.

I picked an archer, and made him work by adding ranged attacks from my class line, the fighters guild line and even from the soul line.

The skills didn't define what I chose. It was the bow. The medium armor.

As well, playing also entails teamwork, at least in many cases. Though ESO kinda dropped the ball on this. If a boss is harder than your character can defeat on their own, they might need to get other players to help. Playing cooperatively as well as solo, but still playing.

By narrowing the focus of your argument, you see where the discrepencies come in. A player doesn't just have to make a character, and pick the weapons and armor and race he wishes. No, now he has to be able to use specific abilities during all levels of conflict, and the game cannot be too difficult (or probably too easy, but that's an assumption), and do the content solo.

Do you not think that you might be intentionally trying to break the statement?

Again, you can't play as a Krogan Necromancer, either. Why don't you just settle on the obvious to make the statement false?

Phantorang · June 2014

They need time to balance the classes and abilities, if that takes some nerfs and some boosts the next couple of months, I will be very happy.

And im happy they wont do what you suggest, then I would demand getting to choose my class over again and get my xp. Or even most likely quit, as this is one of the fun things with the game.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

People are LOOKING and I mean looking searching HARD to find every single flaw they can in this game. They split hairs, misinterpret wording to their benefits to the demise of the game and fabrication actions and motives at every chance they get to hopefully bring this game to its knees as they DONT want it to be good.

They say they want to better the game but I cant see how focusing on the negative does that. Then again you say "don't focus on the negatives" to the haters translates to "turn a blind eye to everything wrong".

Your stuck on these forums either blindly hating the game or just faithfully loving like an absent deity that can do no wrong.

snowmanflvb14_ESO · June 2014

considering that most of the people like the idea of being able to play how you want the OPs suggestions would ruin the game for most. I know I for one like the fact that no matter what class i choose I can adapt them to play any role.

snowmanflvb14_ESO · June 2014

Selstad wrote: »

"Play how you want" is a fluke, if people are still buying into that, they need a reality check. You have the cookie gutter build with the cookie gutter setup using the cookie gutter rotation that has been tested and tried. You are led through the different zones, without any choice what zone to level in. "play as you want" was used and bought into by many, included me. The reality however was a bit different.

About it being a generic RPG, no, it wouldn't. It would actually be more dynamic than it is today. It would also encourage people to try out alts, though, they have to work way more on levelling experience before I consider doing any alts in this game. There is a reason that MMORPG these days are more or less holding to a class specific setup, it doesn't make them generic in any terms, they just realize that it's a tried and tested method that works in an RPG scenario. As said the only game I've tried that doesn't have class specifics is The secret world.

not sure why you think it isa fluke as I see people doing it all the time. Take tempalrs I have seen them as melee dps, range dps, tanks and healers. The same for NB's. I have seen sorc as tanks and melee dps let alone healers and range dps. All doen by wearing different combinations of armor and weapons

snowmanflvb14_ESO · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to Star Wars Galaxies.

I literally hate references to SWG in MMO after MMO. Some have even likened it to the 'Hiltler' argument. But I see it as valid.

Take an outstanding MMO with variety and diversity. Listen to players who don't enjoy variety and diversity because they cannot fathom being 'less than optimal' (as there is no way to make every possible build optimal, due to the very definition of optimal). Completely destroy the premise of the game, and then realize that without that diversity of class, it's just a standard, generic RPG that wasn't designed from the ground up to be that way.

I tank it you played SWG before the big change as well. They ruined a very nice game and drove people away just by doing what the OP in this thread is suggesting

Ser Lobo · June 2014

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to Star Wars Galaxies.

I literally hate references to SWG in MMO after MMO. Some have even likened it to the 'Hiltler' argument. But I see it as valid.

Take an outstanding MMO with variety and diversity. Listen to players who don't enjoy variety and diversity because they cannot fathom being 'less than optimal' (as there is no way to make every possible build optimal, due to the very definition of optimal). Completely destroy the premise of the game, and then realize that without that diversity of class, it's just a standard, generic RPG that wasn't designed from the ground up to be that way.

I tank it you played SWG before the big change as well. They ruined a very nice game and drove people away just by doing what the OP in this thread is suggesting

You'd be right. From beta through to closing. And hating SOE even today because of it.

And yeah, they did EXACTLY what the op is suggesting.

Sakiri · June 2014

@OP

How about "no"?

Thats one of the key features of TES....

SFBryan18 · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

People are LOOKING and I mean looking searching HARD to find every single flaw they can in this game. They split hairs, misinterpret wording to their benefits to the demise of the game and fabrication actions and motives at every chance they get to hopefully bring this game to its knees as they DONT want it to be good.

Many people believe they know what makes a game good. These people have played other games, and it is nostalgia that gives them their bias opinion. A friend of mine won't even try ESO because he is certain it is a clone of every MMO, and he hates the "treadmill" it puts you on. I personally loved Oblivion and Skyrim, and never played an MMORPG, so my opinion of the game will be much different. I think we can just assume that these game hoppers will eventually move on to the next game to criticize.

Game hoppers are the plague of every forum. Some of us will pick our favorite game and play it for hours. The game hoppers play every game they get as fast as they can and then complain about it and move on. They call themselves "gamers" because they play hundreds of titles, but they never play any game for very long. All these players who have played multiple MMO's, for example, makes me question why they aren't playing them anymore. First thought is that they didn't like them so maybe that's why they don't like this game.

If you come in expecting failure, then that's exactly what you will get because the human mind usually tries to believe what it wants to believe.

Aoifesan · June 2014

SWG was an abortion in the womb when they signed with S(ucks)O(nline)E(ntertainment).

It was EQ in space. You hit a womprat for 10 damage for 2-3minutes before it died. I played a demo at a friends house, realized it was what I predicted it would be and never bought the game.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

Aoifesan wrote: »

SWG was an abortion in the womb when they signed with S(ucks)O(nline)E(ntertainment).

It was EQ in space. You hit a womprat for 10 damage for 2-3minutes before it died. I played a demo at a friends house, realized it was what I predicted it would be and never bought the game.

Should probably stay clear of EQNext that game actually looks good.

Crisscross · June 2014

I'll paraphrase what I posted in a previous thread: Even if they made ESO have traditional classes now, it would still suck bigtime. ESO only has 4 classes. WoW has ten. SWTOR has eight. Rift has three billion. ESO cannot compete against traditional class-based MMOs with only 4 (really weird) classes. It would also become a laughingstock for being the Elder Scrolls game to end up with LESS diversity than friking Everquest.

The fact that there are classes at all was already born from this wishy-washy pandering to a perceived "MMO Crowd" for the sake of remaining traditional. ESO has to start doing things for the sake of making a good game, and nothing more.

Crisscross · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

They say they want to better the game but I cant see how focusing on the negative does that.

Because... then the devs... would more likely turn it... into a positive...? Seems like logic 101 to me.

Not focusing on the negative helps your perception of the game, it does not help the game itself.

Sakiri · June 2014

Aoifesan wrote: »

SWG was an abortion in the womb when they signed with S(ucks)O(nline)E(ntertainment).

It was EQ in space. You hit a womprat for 10 damage for 2-3minutes before it died. I played a demo at a friends house, realized it was what I predicted it would be and never bought the game.

Funny, considering its popularity.

And I hate star wars.

Sakiri · June 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

SWG was an abortion in the womb when they signed with S(ucks)O(nline)E(ntertainment).

It was EQ in space. You hit a womprat for 10 damage for 2-3minutes before it died. I played a demo at a friends house, realized it was what I predicted it would be and never bought the game.

Should probably stay clear of EQNext that game actually looks good.

Too sandboxy.

crislevin · June 2014

Slash8915 wrote: »

This would go against their entire model of "Play how you want", and it would take a more traditional RPG approach. People would complain.

lol, like thats somehow a problem.

Leesha · June 2014

Crisscross wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

They say they want to better the game but I cant see how focusing on the negative does that.

Because... then the devs... would more likely turn it... into a positive...? Seems like logic 101 to me.

Not focusing on the negative helps your perception of the game, it does not help the game itself.

Focusing on what you want the game to be rather than what it is, does not help you or the game either.

iuki · June 2014

First sin they did to the ES series is this...

They make you choose a class right off the bat and you are stuck with that unless you roll an alt.

This breaks every thing that made the previous ES series stand out.

There should be no starter 'classes', period; there should be quest lines that you can do for all the classes and then let the player decided based on that. Also should be ability to switch classes on a single (for a fee + maybe a CD timer) character. This is called CHOICE, which is what ES is all about. There is no set paths in previous games, you decide through game play what you want to be and not forced to decide upon character selection.

ie. want to be a sorc? well do a mage quest line and at the end it asks you if you want to be one permanently.

This is what I call choice and is something that all ESO games, even the first one let you decide. No automatic pigeon holing the moment you make a character like in ESO. Did zeni decision makers even play any previous ES game at all? Don't look like it.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2014

Thralgaf wrote: »

Congrats, you just made traditional classes. That's not the premise behind this game. They don't need to do all that. They just have to tweak class specific ABILITIES.

Your actually clueless to what is wrong . Class abilities are the distinction . What needs to be addressed is the armor and weapon skill lines. Both are incredibly underpowered when stacked against staves and light armors. Medium heavy and all melee are not even really viable in vet content.becareful for what you wish for everyone will end up like the dk. Having its uniqueness gutted. Robes and staves>everything else.

shad0w18 · June 2014

IMO they need to open up ALL of the class skill lines aside from world skill to everyone from the start. That's the only way they can truly have a 'play as you want' experience. Else, like the OP said you'll need class specifics. Balancing is already horrendous because they shot them self in the foot from the get-go with the locked class skills. If they really wanted a 'play as you want' experience they should made the start of the game like Skyrim. You started off as lv1 Joe Smoe with all abilities open, locked to nothing. From there, they can incorporate ESO's shard system but at the moment it's just a mess balancing anything.

That's my 2 cents. Thoughts?

Blade_07 · June 2014

To the poster, this not going to happen. Personally I agree with you cuz seeing a sorc in heavy armor is just wrong. But Zenimax wanted to give us the ability to customize our class as we seen fit to mix things up.

Preachan · June 2014

If you limit players to class specific armors and weapons, this is against all what Elder Scrolls stands for.
Limited skill system are an absolute no go for me in any MMO; even more in an TES game.

Evergnar · June 2014

Balancing is not a one time thing. It's a process that never ends. Thinking it can "solved" would really be chasing the wind. I just hope they continue to improve on their process of implementing these adjustments and in a shorter time frame.

Exarch · June 2014

Because making fewer choices available to players always pays huge dividends. Addressing issues with combinations of options by removing options isn't a solution, it's an admission of defeat.

Sleepydan · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

The fact that this game went so far as to include classes and traditional levels actually kinda pissed me off, instead of them making it entirely skill based.

This guy gets it.

Everything done in the name of "we're doing this because it's an mmo" was a terrible idea.

Has anybody played ultima online? I want that games skill choice system.

Shaun98ca2 · June 2014

I will overly admit I would have probably enjoyed this game way more if there weren't any classes and they had an abundance of schools of magic like Oblivion and Skyrim.

Aett_Thorn · June 2014

Said this in a couple of other threads, but I'd be fine if the classes as we have them were left in as optional skill bundles, but we should have been able to choose any three skill lines from the beginning.