Fyrakin wrote: »

Templar skills are not meant to be be in line with sorcerer TBH, I know game says you can play the way you want, but sometimes your earlier choices leave you with little to no options. For that very reason I have 2 characters, 1 for support another for DPS.

Templar pets will of course never be in line with Sorcerer pets, justa as Sorcs will never get any class specific group heals.

So other than that, I see no reason Templar shouldnt do same damage as a Sorc, without adding Templar Pets or Sorcerer Pet dps of course. Meaning, Templar should do just as much DPS as any other class, but Sorcerer can add Pet dps on top of it.

I have no problem with Sorc doing more damage, there are counters to that. My issue is Sorc can be better healers as well with a better mana pool. I picked Templar cause I thought we would be the main healing/buff class. But we go through mana to fast. Buffs cost to much and heals are way to slow to cast. Most healers are using reto staff spells which really shouldn't be the case for Templars.

I've noticed since patch grps of 3 mobs 70% of the time will hammer on me, before I could sneak, range, cast, and if the got close BJ, block switch to bow for knock backs and pew, pew. Now if they even get close they smoke me before I can even cast a heal on myself. Like I said I'm fine for lower dps and longer fights but if our heals don't work then we're gimped.

NerfEverything wrote: »

It is not possible to hit 700 sustained DPS as a templar. Even in full gold and max scroll buffs with animation canceling. I would be impressed to see someone do 600.

I know that, I do 350 DPS sustained (over 5 minutes). I'm a min-maxer, and trust me that I've tried every possible combination. That's why I offer 25000 gold to anyone proving me wrong. There are at least 3 posters on this thread who say they can do 800 DPS sustained. I don't believe them, I haven't seen anyone do more than 350DPS sustained on a Templar, but like I said, I have 25000 gold waiting to whoever proves me wrong.

Poxxerom wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

It is not possible to hit 700 sustained DPS as a templar. Even in full gold and max scroll buffs with animation canceling. I would be impressed to see someone do 600.

I know that, I do 350 DPS sustained (over 5 minutes). I'm a min-maxer, and trust me that I've tried every possible combination. That's why I offer 25000 gold to anyone proving me wrong. There are at least 3 posters on this thread who say they can do 800 DPS sustained. I don't believe them, I haven't seen anyone do more than 350DPS sustained on a Templar, but like I said, I have 25000 gold waiting to whoever proves me wrong.

I will add another 25k to that pot.

this thread has been going a week now and not one post from ZOS saying we are looking at templars.... its pathetic

Poxxerom wrote: »

As an incentive for all templars who thing they can pull it off, I will give 25.000 gold to whichever Templar first posts a video of himself doing 700+ solo, single target DPS against a VR dungeon boss within 3 days from the date of this post.

So there's a 25000 gold reward prize waiting for you guys, just put your word where your mouth is and prove me wrong and it's all yours !

Edit: I'm on NA server, so prize will only go for american server characters. My in-game character name is @poxxerom, and I created the VeteranBosses addon, the prize is real and I won't back down or change my mind, but the rules above need to be followed (and please don't modify CLS to show a higher DPS , that's cheating, we need to see the actual boss HP). You have 3 days to complete the challenge !

One of the only Templars pulling 700 DPS. It is the only option we have for DPS and it doesn't work out in PVP.

Errr sorry I stopped reading at "I manage 300 dps at vr12"

Sorry but I can muster 300 dps at vr3, You must be doing something wrong.

Dralik wrote: »

Epic question: When the devs will say someting about this post?

Devs have been ignoring templars since they got nerfed in beta. They have been ignoring them so hard that they won't even put a templar in their group for the dev videos. I don't know if it is because they want to pretend the problem doesn't exist, or because they can't do the content if they bring a templar because the class is completely broken.

SilverWF wrote: »

This is pretty L2P-issue

No worth replying to theses anymore

SilverWF wrote: »

Didn't try to edit your post, I've seen it!

Natjur wrote: »

That video is of a L32 Templar, my Grandma can level 1 to 50 with only 3 skills loaded. Any class with any build can get to L50 easy.

This video from Vet10 Templar and he is killing the same levels, +/-

That video is quite interesting. Would it work for PVE too I wonder?
I suppose you would have to question if that means Templars currently have to have a 'cookie cutter' build to get anywhere. I don't think that was the type of play Zenimax was advertising

TieFighter wrote: »

SORCs need a swift kick with a nerf bat... sorc teleport is way to cheap costing and is ridiculous to see a sorc spam teleport away- fuggin ridiculous! AND... their regen swaps out stamina?? that is so...*sigh* OP... but they gave us templars a trade-off for our health? OMFG... they should have mad it the other gosh darn way... sorcs all ready have the highest dps and when they are in danger of being low on mana they can teleport away 10 times(yes- while low on mana)- regen mana from stamina... then come back to a fight?

Did you missed last patch or what?
And if you are so slow to not use your gap-closer on sorcerer - this is not sercerers problem

And yes, I've never seen sorcerers-BOTs - it Templars always

bolt should be capped how many times it can be spammed, and then call it class balancing like the sorc's called for DK's. sorcs shouldnt be on the front lines anyways only to bolt away 10 times, also lets fix light armor... oh yeah- of coarse you would make it seem like sorc has been balanced with the small tweaks but it hasn't even touched how over powered they are still compared to the weakness they have which is none!. If you havent bolt escaped enough times to use dark deal then you dont know what youre doing because i still see it being done today

Poxxerom wrote: »

Healing:
We have played and completed most VR dungeons (including VR1-VR10). We stopped using templar class specific healing skills after level 15 and never used them again, mostly due to cast times or expensive mana costs. The only skill from the Templar resto skill line we use is Cleanse which admittedly is a great utility tool, it also is the only thing we bring to the table that sorcerers can't match, but it is rarely used in boss fights, and it is not used in trash fights at all. Illustrious Healing (resto staff) and Rapid Regeneration (resto staff) are the healing skills we use in dungeons, and the Templar class skills, although seemlingly useful, somehow aren't useful enough to make it on to the 5-slot bar. We prefer the Resto staff skills for healing because of two reasons: The resto staff spells are mana efficient and instant cast, which becomes more important in higher VR dungeons because you are required to move almost continuously to evade dangers. We do enjoy the Templar restoration passives, however none of them really help with mana regeneration ( I believe there is a single skill that reduces the mana cost of all spells by 4%, which isn't a lot. The result is that we run out of mana most trash fights, and every boss fight. We counter that by using the heavy resto staff attacks (which regenerate 10% mana per heavy attack and by chugging mana pots as often as we can, usually every 30 seconds. The mana pots are expensive and the result is that the Templar class becomes a very expensive class to play as healer. Mostly, we are unable to use Equilibrium because losing 50% HP, and being low on hp for at least 5 seconds during a high level VR dungeon can often result in a wipe: Too many bosses and even trash groups can randomly hit healers for 50-80% hp in a single hit. The result is that for healers, at VR12, equilibrium isn't an option. I hear sorcerers have a skill called "Dark Exchange" that swaps stamina for mana. This is a much better option than swapping health for mana (Equilibrium) as having 0 stamina does not equate death, as is the case for 0 health. I plead to the developers to give us "Light Exchange" which is identical to "Dark Exchange", this would resolve our healing issues without giving us an unfair advantage over other classes. Please replace "Backlash" with "Light Exchange" for the reasons explained below.

While I agree, that overall Templar need more tools to regen their magika. I think you missed somethings about templar healing capabilities and the way to play it (may be you need more experience in trial ?).

First of all, Templar restoring skills :
You assess that except for purify, all those skill are weak, not mana efficient etc.
For me, birth of life is a must have in your bar. As you said, considering high amount of damage received in group content. Not using this skill is a major failure in your healing rotation.

You complain about mana regeneration, but you don't seem to use Channeled focus, which is absolutely necessary in my opinion for healing templar.
It provides you so much resist that you can tank almost anything in light armor. Some people are considering that you have to move and that make this skill useless. Quite the opposite indeed. With this skill on, except for massive aoe damages, you can just stay in your circle and take low damages while regenerating a good amount of magika (even better when blocking with resto staff)

Other restoring light skills...
Well, I agree that healing ritual is most of the time useless due to long cast time. Overall I only use this skill for 2nd boss in AA trial...
Restoring aura... Personally I love repentance for PvP purposes. It's not your main concern, I can understand that. Never the less, I use this skill in dungeon with bow when I have to both dps and heal at the same time.
With Potl you dislike so much and this skill. I can substain a 350 dps pretty easly while using my mana with birth of life for the group.
It's not a pure healing skill, but still if you want to both dps and heal in some fight without running low mana. It's quite efficient.
On the opposite, I don't like cleansing ritual at all. Because it can disable more interesting synergies and that ppl have to use it, which they don't usually... So I prefer purge which, once morphed, is a lot better in my opinion.

When coming to your statement regarding healing staff vs restoring light skill lines. I'm totally amazed you don't use Healing spring instead of Illustrious healing... Mana regeneration provide by this skill, especially in trial is really strong.
And you don't use Combat Prayer... Again a really strong add resist and dps for your group...

At last, equilibrium / spell symmetry with mage guild passive can be very useful (magika regeneration, spell cost reduction, spell power increase). Just a little risky, but a little life tap shouldn't kill you.

So, I'm sorry to say that you might not really using your skills correctly, which discredit a little bit your whole statement.

Overall, your templar should not have any magika regeneration problem in VR dungeon if your group is not slacking in aoe (but thats your group fault, not yours).

When it comes to Trial now. Yes there are some problems when compared to sorcerers. Your analysis concerning lack of a "dark exchange like" skill is pretty accurate.

Poxxerom wrote: »

DPS:
My VR12 templar has full epic VR11 gear including full epic jewelry and full epic weapons. Despite my pretty decent gear and high level, I only manage to do about 300 DPS on my templar at VR12 [...]. The sorcerer pulled 700 DPS in identical gear.

I'm sorry to say that 300 DPS is low... If you cannot do more DPS than that, it means you have skills/gear/gameplay problems.
On the opposite hand Sorcerers with 700 DPS on mono target are at their Top DPS (in my raid, most sorcerers are around 500 on boss fights)

So comparing a 300 DPS templar with a 700 DPS sorceres is flawn, you compare bad templar with a very good sorc... (or substain vs spike damage)

Never the less I agree that Backlash should be reworked (but not removed !!!) to be more usefull for raid purposes and overall Dawn's wrath skill line should be buffed.
I also think that if stamina was reworked a little bit, templar could just be dps killers with their stamina regeneration skill.

Even if I criticize, good post over all

Channeled focus should have been fix in patch before last one. I didn't make any test on the value of the spell, but I always used it. A must have in my PvE Healing cycle in my opinion