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Racism in zone chats.
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭driosketch wrote: »You didn't say jokes, you said making fun of.
Making a joke or making fun of a religion is synonymous to me.
Making a joke about religion is not laughing at anyone. If you have a sense of humor, you would be laughing with them.
Look, if you think that making a joke about a religion is crossing the line in your book, fine. I'm not going to try to lighten you up. We all have sticks in our butts about something. I'm no exception.
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Mablung✭✭✭✭✭Offensive material is in the eye of the beholder. What one may find offensive another might not. That does not excuse the fact that it was offensive to any single person. 1 person is all that it takes for something to have gone over the line.
A couple of things to consider, right click and report the individual for offensive statement or place them on ignore. But the best option is to turn zone chat completely off. For the most part they are all used to sell things or a form of barrens chat anyway.3 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Never said there was anything wrong with jokes. Jokes are fine.Blackwidow wrote: »driosketch wrote: »You didn't say jokes, you said making fun of.
Making a joke or making fun of a religion is synonymous to me.
Making a joke about religion is not laughing at anyone. If you have a sense of humor, you would be laughing with them.
Look, if you think that making a joke about a religion is crossing the line in your book, fine. I'm not going to try to lighten you up. We all have sticks in our butts about something. I'm no exception.
It doesn't sound like that's where you're coming from though. And if that's your personal stick, as you put it, so be it. I'm not here to change minds.
But if we can agree to keep things civil at least, all the better.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Your faith is a personal choice and belief system that you embrace. If you choose to bring it up in chat, you don't get to complain when it's attacked.
Oh I dunno about that.
If somebody says something along the lines of "All @#$%!! <insert religious faction here> are the @#^$ing bane of the earth and all deserve to hang any their @#$#! for their %@#$!ing evil ways! <insert more explicit vulgarities here in any random order>"
Then yeah... I do believe they are allowed to complain.
Yes, for the profanity. But since most religious debates between people of faith pretty much come down to "[X] is going to burn for all eternity for their beliefs," the rest is to be expected when you bring up faith in a computer game.
While I realize to disagree with you, Nerevarine, is to automatically be wrong, by all your posts and standards, I would ask where the OP mentioned ever having made any initial comment about his/her faith in zone chat, or indeed in the post you responded to in the quoted text? To my woefully ignorant and untrained eye, it appears that this instance quoted,for example, is one of a random person simply spouting off hate speech, but since your expert Holmesian perception indicates someone bringing up faith prior to the anti-faith comment, surely I am in error and you can explain it to me, and all the others in this discussion.
We await with baited breath sir.
While I don't understand your insistence on making a debate intensely personal, the OP made a thread about racial slurs and slipped in something about attacks on his religion. Generally, one doesn't wander into zone chat and, just by happenstance, find that everyone is attacking one's chosen belief system.
That said, I'm sure it could have happened like that. But religious arguments in game chats (and life) are usually fueled by someone deciding that they ought to mention why their religion is the best religion.----
Murray?3 -
tilolyen_ESO✭✭✭attacking people of faith.
So let me get this straight...... You come here and complain about racism (which is a legitimate issue) and then throw in people of faith? You are playing a game with numerous overtones of evil / satanic situations and you complain about players attacking your faith? Hypocrite much?6 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭tilolyen_ESO wrote: »attacking people of faith.
So let me get this straight...... You come here and complain about racism (which is a legitimate issue) and then throw in people of faith? You are playing a game with numerous overtones of evil / satanic situations and you complain about players attacking your faith? Hypocrite much?
This as you stated is a game with imaginary deities. Anyone attacking a persons faith that is derived from real life beliefs and being offended by such an attack is just as offensive as an attack on race. Religious practices in the real world are not representative in an imaginary, pixelated game such as this.
I am not sure what you mean by calling this individual a hypocrite. I do not think the word means what you think it means.2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tilolyen_ESO wrote: »attacking people of faith.
So let me get this straight...... You come here and complain about racism (which is a legitimate issue) and then throw in people of faith? You are playing a game with numerous overtones of evil / satanic situations and you complain about players attacking your faith? Hypocrite much?
This as you stated is a game with imaginary deities. Anyone attacking a persons faith that is derived from real life beliefs and being offended by such an attack is just as offensive as an attack on race. Religious practices in the real world are not representative in an imaginary, pixelated game such as this.
I am not sure what you mean by calling this individual a hypocrite. I do not think the word means what you think it means.
This all may be getting a little too philosophical, but all deities that aren't your deity are imaginary. There's a massive difference between religion and race: you choose your religion, and beliefs should always be subject to evaluation and criticism.----
Murray?2 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭tilolyen_ESO wrote: »attacking people of faith.
So let me get this straight...... You come here and complain about racism (which is a legitimate issue) and then throw in people of faith? You are playing a game with numerous overtones of evil / satanic situations and you complain about players attacking your faith? Hypocrite much?
So, anyone playing a game that has antagonists with evil overtones or "satanic" situations is a hypocrite if they object to specific insults to their religion or religious beliefs in zone chat? That makes no sense at all.This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
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Blackwidow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭driosketch wrote: »Never said there was anything wrong with jokes. Jokes are fine.
I'm glad we agree.It doesn't sound like that's where you're coming from though.
Let me very clear. That is where I am coming from.But if we can agree to keep things civil at least, all the better.
Of course.
Edited by Blackwidow on June 11, 2014 2:23AM1 -
seaef✭✭✭✭✭Just turn off zone chat.
I turned it off at launch and haven't turned it on since. The five guilds I belong to provide me with a constant stream of chat."The Illuminati are very achievement focused. It's like Xbox - only everything is hardcore."
- Kirsten Geary3 -
seanolan✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Your faith is a personal choice and belief system that you embrace. If you choose to bring it up in chat, you don't get to complain when it's attacked.
Oh I dunno about that.
If somebody says something along the lines of "All @#$%!! <insert religious faction here> are the @#^$ing bane of the earth and all deserve to hang any their @#$#! for their %@#$!ing evil ways! <insert more explicit vulgarities here in any random order>"
Then yeah... I do believe they are allowed to complain.
Yes, for the profanity. But since most religious debates between people of faith pretty much come down to "[X] is going to burn for all eternity for their beliefs," the rest is to be expected when you bring up faith in a computer game.
While I realize to disagree with you, Nerevarine, is to automatically be wrong, by all your posts and standards, I would ask where the OP mentioned ever having made any initial comment about his/her faith in zone chat, or indeed in the post you responded to in the quoted text? To my woefully ignorant and untrained eye, it appears that this instance quoted,for example, is one of a random person simply spouting off hate speech, but since your expert Holmesian perception indicates someone bringing up faith prior to the anti-faith comment, surely I am in error and you can explain it to me, and all the others in this discussion.
We await with baited breath sir.
While I don't understand your insistence on making a debate intensely personal, the OP made a thread about racial slurs and slipped in something about attacks on his religion. Generally, one doesn't wander into zone chat and, just by happenstance, find that everyone is attacking one's chosen belief system.
That said, I'm sure it could have happened like that. But religious arguments in game chats (and life) are usually fueled by someone deciding that they ought to mention why their religion is the best religion.
Actually, it happens all the time. I have logged into the game and found discussions bashing gays, bashing Jews, blacks, Muslims, Chinese, women, almost any minority you can name. As a gay man, I did take offense at the gay bashing, and felt a sense of personal attack, as you can hardly say "all gay men are X" and expect me to not feel included in that attack. As a person of conscience, I felt offended at the attacks on minorities I was not a member of, in spite of not being included in the sweeping attack. So yes, it is possible to feel attacked without ever having mentioned ones own beliefs or race or religion.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on June 11, 2014 2:55AM6 -
Moiskormoimi✭✭✭✭I actually thought we were going to have a discussion about how dirty dark elves are. Vile scum of the earth they are.
What a let down.
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Kingslayer✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Saying the "n" word once is fine, he might now know... saying multiple racial words on purpose and so on then yea ban his ass.
Saying the "n" word once, is never fine. Nor would any derogatory word with a negative connotation towards any race be okay to ever say... not even once.
He may not know... you hear it in movies all the time, do you think most white people who have no black people in their country know that only black people can use it?:)) I assure you they don`t.
I find it stupid anyway, if anyone can use it then all should be able to, its racist towards white people not to allow them to use it when every movie out there has black people saying it no problem. There are even songs with the name in the title...
EDIT: Also, if anyone say the "N" word, how can you see, in a video game, if he is white or black?
EDIT2: What if i just write lyrics of a song that is on the radio... a song that has the "n" word once per lyric?
Lol dude people who have no black people in their country?. That's facile reasoning, Thats like Saying "well theirs no black people where i lived and i never met one" and saying you don't know. Its what the enlightened like to term as ignorance. Its racism all the same. And don't get me started on all this gangster rap mentality with the "n" word No wonder half of them get shot lol2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually, it happens all the time. I have logged into the game and found discussions bashing gays, bashing Jews, blacks, Muslims, Chinese, women, almost any minority you can name. As a gay man, I did take offense at the gay bashing, and felt a sense of personal attack, as you can hardly say "all gay men are X" and expect me to not feel included in that attack. As a person of conscience, I felt offended at the attacks on minorities I was not a member of, in spite of not being included in the sweeping attack. So yes, it is possible to feel attacked without ever having mentioned ones own beliefs or race or religion.
[Redacted due to irrelevance.]
I also take offense at homophobia and racism in zone chat (and attacks on Jews/Muslims tend to be fueled more by racism than ideology, but that's a whole different can of worms). The OP does not appear to have been offended as mucy by that as he was by an attack on his religion. And if I had to venture a guess, I'd say that his religion is Christianity.
Again, he may have walked in to an ongoing discussion, but based on the phrasing of the OP, I doubt it.----
Murray?1 -
After reading some of the in this thread comments I'm shocked by some of the ignorance here. Regardless of whether someone stated what race/religion they are first is irrelevant, ZOS as a professional company should be doing all they can to stamp this type of behaviour out of the game, not brushing it under the carpet like a lot of posters seem to suggest.
Here in the UK and many other countries across the world this sort of thing is actually illegal, and people have been dragged through the courts for saying things online thinking they are safe behind a computer screen.
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Kingslayer✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »After reading some of the in this thread comments I'm shocked by some of the ignorance here. Regardless of whether someone stated what race/religion they are first is irrelevant, ZOS as a professional company should be doing all they can to stamp this type of behaviour out of the game, not brushing it under the carpet like a lot of posters seem to suggest.
Here in the UK and many other countries across the world this sort of thing is actually illegal, and people have been dragged through the courts for saying things online thinking they are safe behind a computer screen.
Yet here in the uk its full of ignorance as i am sure you will agree.1 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »tilolyen_ESO wrote: »attacking people of faith.
So let me get this straight...... You come here and complain about racism (which is a legitimate issue) and then throw in people of faith? You are playing a game with numerous overtones of evil / satanic situations and you complain about players attacking your faith? Hypocrite much?
This as you stated is a game with imaginary deities. Anyone attacking a persons faith that is derived from real life beliefs and being offended by such an attack is just as offensive as an attack on race. Religious practices in the real world are not representative in an imaginary, pixelated game such as this.
I am not sure what you mean by calling this individual a hypocrite. I do not think the word means what you think it means.
This all may be getting a little too philosophical, but all deities that aren't your deity are imaginary. There's a massive difference between religion and race: you choose your religion, and beliefs should always be subject to evaluation and criticism.
Not worth my time. Edited by Mablung on June 11, 2014 2:44AM0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »After reading some of the in this thread comments I'm shocked by some of the ignorance here. Regardless of whether someone stated what race/religion they are first is irrelevant, ZOS as a professional company should be doing all they can to stamp this type of behaviour out of the game, not brushing it under the carpet like a lot of posters seem to suggest.
Here in the UK and many other countries across the world this sort of thing is actually illegal, and people have been dragged through the courts for saying things online thinking they are safe behind a computer screen.
And thankfully, one of the nice things that the U.S. Constitution provides is freedom of speech, even when it's offensive. That doesn't mean that ZO can't moderate their own game, but it means that I can't go to jail for offending your sensibilities and vice-versa.
It may seem like that's a less polite way to live, but it's also the only way to ensure the free exchange of ideas.----
Murray?3 -
Sandmanninja✭✭✭✭I seldom speak in Zone Chat because gold spammers can get your name from Zone Chat and then target you.
I have seen very rude people, with no prompting or provication, slander and verbally abuse religious icons and deities.
While I'm not religious, I do see that it offends people. When they say something ("please stop", for instance), that's when the abuser gets personal.
I consider it an extreme form of trolling that is almost always guaranteed to strike a raw nerve.
I always report them, including a screen shot with the zone chat visible.
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hk11✭✭✭✭If you say something about homosexuals you get publicly stoned to death, but its fine to rag on people's faith. I'm not even a religious guy but what's good for the goose.... It should be equally unacceptable to down someone's faith.
Anything else is bigotry.
There is a guild that recruits publicly on my server and fills chat with comments about how gay they are and jerking each other off etc. but if some poor sap mentions he is religious, every fedora wearing idiot comes to life as if claiming to be an atheist somehow makes you more intelligent. Should not be allowed.Edited by hk11 on June 11, 2014 3:13AM0 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seriously, I don't like Redguards, Orcs, or Argonians. They need to go back to where they came from.
When you speak about religion, you're going to offend someone. Welcome to the internet.Edited by SFBryan18 on June 11, 2014 3:13AM2 -
xanikk999✭✭✭If you say something about homosexuals you get publicly stoned to death, but its fine to rag on people's faith. I'm not even a religious guy but what's good for the goose.... It should be equally unacceptable to down someone's faith.
You have an extreme case of observational bias there.
In any professional or public setting involving many many people I can't picture either of what you said as acceptable in mainstream western society.
Personally why do you feel the need to hate on anyone?1 -
hk11✭✭✭✭If you say something about homosexuals you get publicly stoned to death, but its fine to rag on people's faith. I'm not even a religious guy but what's good for the goose.... It should be equally unacceptable to down someone's faith.
You have an extreme case of observational bias there.
In any professional or public setting involving many many people I can't picture either of what you said as acceptable in mainstream western society.
Personally why do you feel the need to hate on anyone?
I am just an observer.
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you say something about homosexuals you get publicly stoned to death, but its fine to rag on people's faith. I'm not even a religious guy but what's good for the goose.... It should be equally unacceptable to down someone's faith.
You have an extreme case of observational bias there.
In any professional or public setting involving many many people I can't picture either of what you said as acceptable in mainstream western society.
Personally why do you feel the need to hate on anyone?
In western society, most people are smart enough to stay quiet in public and professional places. Those individuals who fail to meet social standards are usually ignored and probably judged as having some kind of mental problem. I mean, there is always going to be religious conflict in the world because we will never all believe the same stuff, so the best thing to do is keep it to yourself.
I hate the double standard set on atheism. It's ok to speak about your faith in the lord, but anyone who says there is no God is considered offensive. It could be equally offensive to the nonbeliever when they hear about God in the first place. One of those situations you should just avoid.
On the internet, trolls will do what they can to get you angry. The more you feed them, the more they will get what they want.Edited by SFBryan18 on June 11, 2014 3:22AM1 -
GrimCyclone✭✭✭✭✭*looks at topic title*
*sees three pages of posts*
Ah, the cacophony of white-guilt libbies!
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nerevarine1138 wrote: »infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »After reading some of the in this thread comments I'm shocked by some of the ignorance here. Regardless of whether someone stated what race/religion they are first is irrelevant, ZOS as a professional company should be doing all they can to stamp this type of behaviour out of the game, not brushing it under the carpet like a lot of posters seem to suggest.
Here in the UK and many other countries across the world this sort of thing is actually illegal, and people have been dragged through the courts for saying things online thinking they are safe behind a computer screen.
And thankfully, one of the nice things that the U.S. Constitution provides is freedom of speech, even when it's offensive. That doesn't mean that ZO can't moderate their own game, but it means that I can't go to jail for offending your sensibilities and vice-versa.
It may seem like that's a less polite way to live, but it's also the only way to ensure the free exchange of ideas.
I don't know, of course people should have the freedom to exchange ideas and opinions however a line has to be drawn somewhere. Freedom of speech shouldn't be used as an excuse to harass or incite hate against some for their race or religion.
Of course I don't like it when the law is abused/overreacted on for random twitter rants and such but when I read articles like this I'm glad the UK has that line in the sand to keep the plebs like this out:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2652041/Revealed-Inside-vile-***-***-Klan-rally-bigoted-members-say-preparing-race-war-military-style-combat-training.html0 -
Bigtuna✭✭✭Not going to say I condone it but I don't think it is the job of admins to police it either. There are language filters built into the game for a reason, if there are offensive words that are not filtered out I'm sure if you petition ZOS they will either add those words into the filter or add the ability to censor words by command, if it is not already available.
Above and beyond that I feel that if someone is engaging in speech that you don't agree with you have the choice to enter into dialogue with that individual or ignore them. Speech is speech, refer to the first amendment of the United States constitution if you need a more elaborate dissection of my views on the topic.
Also there is always the /ignore function. Comes in very handy for censoring your exposure to ignorance.Edited by Bigtuna on June 11, 2014 3:58AM1 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭After the Patriot act, no one is free. Anything you say can be defined as terrorism and you can be detained and interrogated (tortured) indefinitely. Welcome to the New World Order.1
This discussion has been closed.