All I kept hearing was Sorc was OP in PVP.....

crislevin · June 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

they wasted their time beating you in a fight only to have you run and them not get points.

surely didn't stop them getting all the points to put their name high on the leadership board!

try again.

Luvsfuzzybunnies · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

So which campaign are you quoting these statistics from? funny, what I'm looking at the number one player is a sorc and the next one below that is a DK and the closest NB is 6 million points away. Go figure.

Oh, did you think the leaderboards on your campaign represented anything about what you're discussing? oh, that's so precious.

indeed so precious! Now kneel before the fact and apologize!

Dawnbreaker

Goldbrand

Bloodthorn

Volendrug

I would use this as criteria to state some sorcs know how to play but I'd be afraid that I would be lying since these numbers are still artificially inflated from Vampire and Bash spamming. Once the campaigns reset we will have a much better idea of who knows what they are doing and who was exploiting.

crislevin · June 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

I would use this as criteria to state some sorcs know how to play but I'd be afraid that I would be lying since these numbers are still artificially inflated from Vampire and Bash spamming. Once the campaigns reset we will have a much better idea of who knows what they are doing and who was exploiting.

agreed

Still, who actually exploited the vamp? from what I heard, it was DKs and Sorcs, and even with that, Sorc are nowhere near the top.

I guess we will see more with shorter duration campaigns soon.

Cody · June 2014

well, tbh, most sorcs I see constantly spam bolt escape, and run away 90% of the time. the few that DO stay and fight, can decimate entire groups. They are more powerful than NBs and DKs, it just that DKs and NBs don't have a get out of jail free ability, they HAVE to stay and fight to some degree, where as a sorc can just spam bolt escape and do basically no fighting.

crislevin · June 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

well, tbh, most sorcs I see constantly spam bolt escape, and run away 90% of the time. the few that DO stay and fight, can decimate entire groups. They are more powerful than NBs and DKs, it just that DKs and NBs don't have a get out of jail free ability, they HAVE to stay and fight to some degree, where as a sorc can just spam bolt escape and do basically no fighting.

if sorcs are so powerful, where are they on the leadership board? do they just log on once every 30 days to show their prowess then log off?

I believe that was the original question to begin with.

jelliedsoup · June 2014

crislevin wrote: »

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

*Looks frustrated at the sorcerer blinking away into the distance.*

"Man those guys are OP, they can't be killed, bloody sorcerers!"

*Walks away not realizing he's alive and the sorcerer just ran for his life*

(I don't play a sorcerer btw, unless you count my lvl 7 alt)

yeah, funny how people thinks, lol

The point is sorcs can escape. NBS and templars die. Dks use a banner and talons.

crislevin · June 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

fyendiarb16_ESO wrote: »

*Looks frustrated at the sorcerer blinking away into the distance.*

"Man those guys are OP, they can't be killed, bloody sorcerers!"

*Walks away not realizing he's alive and the sorcerer just ran for his life*

(I don't play a sorcerer btw, unless you count my lvl 7 alt)

yeah, funny how people thinks, lol

The point is sorcs can escape. NBS and templars die. Dks use a banner and talons.

lol, the point is those NB/temp/DK on the leader board surely kills more than dies.

jeradlub17_ESO · June 2014

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

Yes you also deprive the other person who was fighting you the points as well which isn't a problem(except were all talking about PvP here and if one class can deny the reward of PvP to another or all then that class needs to be looked at and balanced) for you, you got away but they wasted their time beating you in a fight only to have you run and them not get points. All because you have the only ability in the game that guarantees escape if you aren't half brain dead face rolling. Sure that's fair game play. I will propose a fix and we can give you back your precious bolt escape. Anytime you engage in fights with sorcs they deal damage to you or you them, if said sorc tries to run using bolt escape more than 3 times the player(s) they are fighting receives AP's equal to the amount they would have had you died. Then it would be worth fighting your class with that ability. Ill use the /wave counter all day long. As this will not be an acceptable fix we will have to make due with the fix they implemented for the ability as is.

Yeah sure tell you what they can do that when i get x times the ap for each time a dk heals himself to full during fights from only 10% life since it is basically killing him 3-4 times or more over and over again. Same for templars. Or we get the AP for the NBs that vanish repeatedly mid fight using it to escape eventually even when they are 2 ft away as if you could lose sight of something that close.

Or since we are are being forced to give up our only defense then you all can give up yours.

Ker.Rakb16_ESO · June 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

pbtanashb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok the leaderboard represents how strong a class is not the time spent in pvp...nice "facts".

So non-Sorc players spend more time in PVP overall? I wonder why?

This is what is called a "leading question", but I'll bite.

Templars and NBs spend a disproportionate amount of time in PvP because they're below average PvE soloers and are less desired in trial groups. What else are they supposed to do?

Ragekniv · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

Pretty much this.

NBs are one shotting things from stealth.

DKs can just stand there and kill 20 players.

Sorcs used to be able to run away, but now they're just as bad as Templars.

***Sigh***

Templars, always the joke.

Balance all classes sustained DPS and resource mechanics!

Next round of OP nerfs please!

crislevin · June 2014

Ker.Rakb16_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

pbtanashb16_ESO wrote: »

Ok the leaderboard represents how strong a class is not the time spent in pvp...nice "facts".

So non-Sorc players spend more time in PVP overall? I wonder why?

This is what is called a "leading question", but I'll bite.

Templars and NBs spend a disproportionate amount of time in PvP because they're below average PvE soloers and are less desired in trial groups. What else are they supposed to do?

lol, if you want me to believe a v10-v12 temp/nb is somehow bad soloers.

and that your reasoning somehow only applies to nb/temp, but not dks,

... lets just say I think other explanations are more likely.

Fuzzylumpkins · June 2014

Could it be that the types that play NBs are the jobless 20 hour a day types? I mean honestly the boards are based on ap and ap only. Not activity , kills, keep takes defences or anything relative to class/abilities.

On my sorc I am down to logging in game strictly to do the 20 player kill quest and logging off each day. It takes me 10-15 minutes to complete the quest. I'm sure if I gave 16 hours a day to the game repeating mission quests between keep/gate farms I could hit some of those numbers, anyone can.

Save this thread to favourites and repost after the leader boards wipe at the end of campaign. It will be players, not classes that stay at the top. Looking at leader boards and player times for things like this or pve encounters is setting a standard for false competition to try and draw players into feeling they need to play all the time, keeping subs up and achieve some virtual status. It doesn't mean anything.

At all.

crislevin · June 2014

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Looking at leader boards and player times for things like this or pve encounters is setting a standard for false competition to try and draw players into feeling they need to play all the time, keeping subs up and achieve some virtual status. It doesn't mean anything. At all.

If its clever marketing, I don't think its working.... lol

jeradlub17_ESO · June 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

well, tbh, most sorcs I see constantly spam bolt escape, and run away 90% of the time. the few that DO stay and fight, can decimate entire groups. They are more powerful than NBs and DKs, it just that DKs and NBs don't have a get out of jail free ability, they HAVE to stay and fight to some degree, where as a sorc can just spam bolt escape and do basically no fighting.

If they have been fighting they aren't going to be able to spam much of anything even as it was pre-nerf since they are going to have only 1/4 to 1/2 power at that point which used to be about 4 teleports (just out of bow range) will now only be 2 (dead sorc). The only way they went further than that before is if they just flat ran from the beginning with a full power bar getting 8-9 ports. 2 more if they drop a pot. Anything beyond that was the hack.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

BE is OP and im glad the devs are trying to balance it, not that it seems to be working a full magicka sorc can still spam it over the hills.

But it is a start for now.

To begin with , they should never have made such a skill , it should have a target , and it should have been for either staying away from melee or jumping in melee (could even be a morph for each), because the devs wanted to keep both options open all the time , they did not add the target , which is what made this skill broken and OP to begin with.

jeradlub17_ESO · June 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

BE is OP and im glad the devs are trying to balance it, not that it seems to be working a full magicka sorc can still spam it over the hills.

But it is a start for now.

To begin with , they should never have made such a skill , it should have a target , and it should have been for either staying away from melee or jumping in melee (could even be a morph for each), because the devs wanted to keep both options open all the time , they did not add the target , which is what made this skill broken and OP to begin with.

By your logic the NB should lose all of their vanish and escape abilities too. Not saying I agree with that but that is the logic you are using. Just cause one class doesn't have it noone should? That doesn't make any sense at all. Classes need uniqueness.

Fuzzylumpkins · June 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

BE is OP and im glad the devs are trying to balance it, not that it seems to be working a full magicka sorc can still spam it over the hills.

But it is a start for now.

To begin with , they should never have made such a skill , it should have a target , and it should have been for either staying away from melee or jumping in melee (could even be a morph for each), because the devs wanted to keep both options open all the time , they did not add the target , which is what made this skill broken and OP to begin with.

No worries Nox. Your ideal gameplay of single damage linear abilities and frankly no one to play against is coming your way sooner than others can cry nerf >;)

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

BE is OP and im glad the devs are trying to balance it, not that it seems to be working a full magicka sorc can still spam it over the hills.

But it is a start for now.

To begin with , they should never have made such a skill , it should have a target , and it should have been for either staying away from melee or jumping in melee (could even be a morph for each), because the devs wanted to keep both options open all the time , they did not add the target , which is what made this skill broken and OP to begin with.

By your logic the NB should lose all of their vanish and escape abilities too. Not saying I agree with that but that is the logic you are using. Just cause one class doesn't have it noone should? That doesn't make any sense at all. Classes need uniqueness.

Mate you can spam vanish , you will probably not even cover half the gap , plus people can AoE and so on. Sorry , but NB got nothing that broken , they do open with tons of damage , but then again , that is one way to go fighting and it is how rogues usually work.

BE is a get out of jail card. You use , you are out if you actually know how to use it.

Templars/DK can just stop fighting there and watch , NB can try to run after , but probably even them wont catch the sorc also.

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

BE is OP and im glad the devs are trying to balance it, not that it seems to be working a full magicka sorc can still spam it over the hills.

But it is a start for now.

To begin with , they should never have made such a skill , it should have a target , and it should have been for either staying away from melee or jumping in melee (could even be a morph for each), because the devs wanted to keep both options open all the time , they did not add the target , which is what made this skill broken and OP to begin with.

No worries Nox. Your ideal gameplay of single damage linear abilities and frankly no one to play against is coming your way sooner than others can cry nerf >;)

I do hope balance the game sooner rather than later , people are getting used to OP things and will have even greater problems when they are tossed back into the normal game.

NerfEverything · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Sorcs used to be able to run away, but now they're just as bad as Templars.

Yay! We have some company at the bottom.

The problem is that the devs have no interest in buffing up Templars to bring them in line with the other classes. So the only other options are to leave things unbalanced, or to nerf the other classes. Neither of which will make people happy.

SilverWF · June 2014

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

Applause!

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Sorcs used to be able to run away, but now they're just as bad as Templars.

Yay! We have some company at the bottom.

The problem is that the devs have no interest in buffing up Templars to bring them in line with the other classes. So the only other options are to leave things unbalanced, or to nerf the other classes. Neither of which will make people happy.

From i have seen on the patch notes , outside the nerf on bitting jabs , which they went back with , i did not see the devs say they will not buff the templar , actually saw some upgrades even if not big , where is people getting this from?

Did they actually post this? Cause if they did all classes can start crying now.

SilverWF · June 2014

Just PrntScr'ed at Wabbajack (EU)

NerfEverything · June 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Sorcs used to be able to run away, but now they're just as bad as Templars.

Yay! We have some company at the bottom.

The problem is that the devs have no interest in buffing up Templars to bring them in line with the other classes. So the only other options are to leave things unbalanced, or to nerf the other classes. Neither of which will make people happy.

From i have seen on the patch notes , outside the nerf on bitting jabs , which they went back with , i did not see the devs say they will not buff the templar , actually saw some upgrades even if not big , where is people getting this from?

Did they actually post this? Cause if they did all classes can start crying now.

I was referring to "The Road Ahead" post (http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/news/post/2014/06/04/the-road-ahead--june-4th) where they said they will fix NBs and nerf the sh*t out of DKs and no mention of Templars or Sorcs.

Maybe they are happy with sorcs now after the BE change and they will just bring DKs in line with Sorcs and NBs and leave Templars at the bottom. Biting jabs got nerfed once and was left out of the patch notes, then nerfed again, but differently in the next patch. So the biting jabs nerf was never undone and it did significantly affect Templars DPS.

Templar's resource management was nerfed HARD in beta and that is where a lot of their problems come from. It is alright to be "the healing class" with lower DPS (although Sorcs and NBs still outheal Templars), but Templars cannot sustain 400 DPS because they run out of resources. Resource management would solve the problem of DPS and healing because they do have stronger class heals, but can't maintain either class or resto staff heals, while Sorcs and NBs can spam resto staff heals indefinitely.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · June 2014

NB will own you PvP. Only the rejects are crying about NB. Sure some skills need to be fixed because mechanically they are broken, but NB is far from the bottom in PvP...

Liquid_Time · June 2014

I think it is funny when others claim their class is weak in PvP.. Especially when its the same class I play.

Brings a smile to my face most times.

Broken skills? Yes.
Weak in PvE? Yes, but I manage.
Weak in PvP? Depends on who/how I engage the fight.

I know what I can kill and I know what I cannot kill..

That being said.. I will often challenge my own abilities and the two classes that I have the most trouble with is DK's and Sorc's. I am not saying they are Op, but there seems to be a noticeable difference on their survivability compared to others.

DK's:
They are simply tanks.. I cannot seem to get enough damage out fast enough before they are able to recover. This poses a challenge for me since I can't sustain long term DPS and I have now learned avoid them unless their build appears to be a squishy mage setup.

Sorc:
The only issue I had with them was simply the BE. To this day I have not had a good 1v1 with a sorc. If I had the jump they would often BE away (which is expected, don't get me wrong).

Every face to face match I have had that I can recall has been interrupted by another player. I am looking forward to the recent BE change. I want to see how well my skills and build of choice compare in both gank situations and face to face situations.

FunkyBudda · June 2014

jonal11_ESO wrote: »

You see, running away and not getting points is overpowered. Standing still, killing everything around you, well that's just underpowered.

Duh.

So true.

Yet Zenimax rushed out the BE nerf ahead of the other glaring issues plaguing the game, bravo.

Cimos · June 2014

I am a little disappointed in you guys. No one has mentioned the most likely theory.

Typically in MMOs, players who are PvP focused like to stealth. What else do they like to do? Survive. Based on what information was available to you in the beginning of April, if you were a PvP Player, you most likely chose Nightblade or DragonKnight because those classes were thought of as "stealth" and "tank".

Now, if you were a PvE focused player, you probably thought it would be far easier to DPS as a sorcerer. It's common in most MMOs for ranged DPS to be the easiest DPS class to play because you can dodge AOEs and such while still DPSing. In additon, PvE players who are healers probably rolled Templar or Sorcerer. Most people who plan to be healers from the beginning, are PvE focused.

Now, obviously this doesnt apply to everyone in every situation, but with thousands of players (most of which have MMO exp) there will be trends.

So based on the information above...why are people surprised that NB and DK top leaderboards in PvP, while Sorcs top leaderboards in PvE DPS? It's the people playing...not the class balance!

Daethz · June 2014

And guess what, i bet all top 20 players.
USE DESTRO STAFFS, or bows.

Nooblet · June 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

well, tbh, most sorcs I see constantly spam bolt escape, and run away 90% of the time. the few that DO stay and fight, can decimate entire groups. They are more powerful than NBs and DKs, it just that DKs and NBs don't have a get out of jail free ability, they HAVE to stay and fight to some degree, where as a sorc can just spam bolt escape and do basically no fighting.

That's because those that stay and fight are not sorcs, they're DKs with light armor and staff.

Define "entire groups".

Define "more powerful".

You are spewing random opinions as if they are fact, when they are not even close to reality.

Singular · June 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

The real hinderance for nightblades is dual wield, which many (like myself) just can't seem to make work efficiently.

This seems to be the basis of a lot of NB complaints, yet they fail to realize dual wield (or any physical dmg weapon) does not work efficiently compared to either staff.

Yes. I failed to realize this. Arg! So I rerolled into a sorc. Arg! A newly nerfed sorc.

Damn you, DKs, daaaaamn you!!!