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Since when is Questing...
Azzuria
✭✭✭✭✭
Considered 'grinding'?
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to 'grind quests' in VR content.
Here I thought questing was the -point- of an epic fantasy game!
The same people who call questing 'grinding' also tend to complain about the lack of XP in dungeons and whine about not being able to level in PvP or by just slaughtering pack after pack after pack of mobs in the world.
Am I missing something or am I just to well-adjusted to understand that mindset?
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to 'grind quests' in VR content.
Here I thought questing was the -point- of an epic fantasy game!
The same people who call questing 'grinding' also tend to complain about the lack of XP in dungeons and whine about not being able to level in PvP or by just slaughtering pack after pack after pack of mobs in the world.
Am I missing something or am I just to well-adjusted to understand that mindset?
Brunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.
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Azzuria✭✭✭✭✭
Yes. Yes, I did. Your point?Brunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.7 -
sajackson✭✭✭It just boils down to the fact that people don't like the veteran ranks. Essentially when they hit level 50 they don't want do any more character development outside of getting new gear so it doesn't matter whether it's veteran quests or whatever they just cba to do them.
Between that and the constant whinging about the game not being f2p its all a bit of a ballache really. I wish the moaners would all just rage-quit and leave us in peace tbh.Edited by sajackson on June 10, 2014 6:19PM19 -
Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't consider the VR questing "grind", though I do dislike having to do the other alliance's zones in order to level my Vet rank.
Helping the the factions I spend the entire EP questline undermining, sabotaging and killing makes no sense to me, and being forced to do it in order to level my Vet rank annoys me. Sure, I could grind Vet dungeons/Vet mobs, but I swore a solemn oath to never grind in an Elder Scrolls game.Edited by Lord_Draevan on June 10, 2014 6:31PMI'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server7 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anything that you're forced to do to progress which is repetitive and boring can be considered grinding.
Having to play the game all the way through two more times for a mere ten non-levels worth of stat buffs just to get to the end-game content is, for a lot of people, repetitive and boring. Especially if you've already sen the content before on an alt or something. Add the enhanced difficulty, and associated frustration, on top of it and you've got a recipe for discontent.
Honestly, I think people would complain less about VR content if VR levels went up to like 30. Don't have to change the stats or anything, just the number of VR levels. Part of the problem with VR content is psychological... It's a lot of work for what appears to be very little gain. When you giveyourself a migraine trying to complete a quest only to see your XP bar nudge less than a pixel... That's a tough pill to swallow. The same amount of points divided across three times as many levels means the XP bar moves three times as fast."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?9 -
FrauPerchta✭✭✭You don't have to quest, you can grind mobs. Hell you just run around exploring things and gain a lvl or two. If you don't want to quest for XP and you don't want to grind mobs for XP what do you want to do to get XP to level? Just log on to character?7 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Any repetitive task is grinding. The key issue: "interesting content" is highly subjective. How many times can you save a village from <insert enemy here> before all the enemies look the same to you? It takes longer if you like listening to NPC stories, but even then they aren't all unique and start falling into the same patterns. And when you reach this point, there isn't much difference between saving the village and running the dungeon for the nth time. Especially when the reward is miniscule, like exp progress in veteran ranks.
People enjoy different things. Doing only one, no matter how well-designed, gets tiring.Edited by Rosveen on June 10, 2014 6:28PM6 -
Azzuria✭✭✭✭✭I can see the point of repeatative content, especially if you've seen the content on an alt. And, not being into VR content yet, I cannot speak to the disheartening nature of seeing the XP bar barely move. I do know that as I'm leveling sometimes I see the bar move too fast for my taste, that I out-level content and so am left to dominate content instead of fighting it. That's frustrating and boring to me.
But I do see your point about being forced to do stuff being 'grindy'.Brunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.1 -
Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭FrauPerchta wrote: »You don't have to quest, you can grind mobs. Hell you just run around exploring things and gain a lvl or two.
Let me take a guess... you didnt get to VRs yet.
Nobody has ever complained about 1-50 character progression.
Edited by Gisgo on June 10, 2014 6:30PM6 -
Mablung✭✭✭✭✭No carrot. The rank rewards you do get are cosmetic and bad cosmetics at that. Leveling through VR content is a chore. When people pay for entertainment they want to be rewarded early and often, that is definitely not the case with veteran content leveling.
Factor in also that it seems to have been an afterthought by the developers but the design to force you to play the other 2 factions stories is bad. We have multiple characters slots for character creations, who wants to go through all of that multiple times without any sort of solid reward?6 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭Considered 'grinding'?
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to 'grind quests' in VR content.
Here I thought questing was the -point- of an epic fantasy game!
The same people who call questing 'grinding' also tend to complain about the lack of XP in dungeons and whine about not being able to level in PvP or by just slaughtering pack after pack after pack of mobs in the world.
Am I missing something or am I just to well-adjusted to understand that mindset?
Questing through the zone you picked is one thing, but then having to quest through all the enemies zones doing a story line that contradicts the entire idea of picking a faction is not very "epic".6 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭First let me say i kind of enjoy the game in the same way you do OP , i did not mind doing all quests up to the vr9 zone and now i only have left the vr10 zone.
My problem is when they intend to toss me into craglorn to quest in groups , which i dont want to do at all , and thus would rather grind/farm the exp in a zerg.
With that said , any action can be grindy , like said above , to grind , it is to just keep repeating the same thing over and over.
It does not need to be annoying at all to the person , i used to spend hours grinding for mats/gold... In other RPGs , could be just killing a few mobs in an area over and over again , not always it was boring or got me annoyed , for the most part i do enjoy grinding.
If we go back to GW2 , the MMO i believe i grinded the most of them all , each set of lvls there was a place where it would keep spamming tons of mobs in an event , you usually would see a LOT of players there to keep doing that same event over and over again. Then again , one of the few MMOs i ever lvled 3 chars to max lvl also."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
FrauPerchta✭✭✭FrauPerchta wrote: »You don't have to quest, you can grind mobs. Hell you just run around exploring things and gain a lvl or two.
Let me take a guess... you didnt get to VRs yet.
Nobody has ever complained about 1-50 character progression.
Wrong. And should you read the other comment folks aren't talking about VR content.
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Gisgo✭✭✭✭✭FrauPerchta wrote: »
Wrong.
Then you should know exploration doesnt get you xp, and killing doesnt get you enough of it.
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FrauPerchta✭✭✭Considered 'grinding'?
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to 'grind quests' in VR content.
Here I thought questing was the -point- of an epic fantasy game!
The same people who call questing 'grinding' also tend to complain about the lack of XP in dungeons and whine about not being able to level in PvP or by just slaughtering pack after pack after pack of mobs in the world.
Am I missing something or am I just to well-adjusted to understand that mindset?
Questing through the zone you picked is one thing, but then having to quest through all the enemies zones doing a story line that contradicts the entire idea of picking a faction is not very "epic".
ESO is not a very well thought out game. The forced playing through other factions' zone is nothing but lazy Devs.
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jambam817_ESO✭✭✭I would love some group content now that I'm VR2... in fact once i hit vet levels, i was unable to really find a group for anything.
Being in guilds from Launch day is sad, as they are very inactive now. Its rough finding a good, active guild here. Especially since we are limited by Faction on who we can play with. I wish that wasn't the case in PVE.1 -
andersan✭✭✭Just curious for those that played WoW. If, after finishing up your quests for the Alliance you were forced to do all the Horde quests to get to raiding would you have liked it?Edited by andersan on June 10, 2014 6:44PM3
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Mercurio✭✭✭Everyone wants to play MMO(RPG)s these days, but none of them like RPG mechanics. I guess they didn't play the same games I grew up playing, where questing was the point : the only thing beyond stat advancement and exploration. Once you were done so was the game.7 -
sajackson✭✭✭FrauPerchta wrote: »ESO is not a very well thought out game. The forced playing through other factions' zone is nothing but lazy Devs.
It's only upset the lazy players.6 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Considered 'grinding'?
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to 'grind quests' in VR content.
Here I thought questing was the -point- of an epic fantasy game!
The same people who call questing 'grinding' also tend to complain about the lack of XP in dungeons and whine about not being able to level in PvP or by just slaughtering pack after pack after pack of mobs in the world.
Am I missing something or am I just to well-adjusted to understand that mindset?
I completely agree with you. However that Mindset is the Mindset from the past decade of MMO players:Other MMO Quests:- Quest Hubs: Where you pick up 5 quests, and run in each direction. Come back pick up another 5. -> Get another "talk quest" and move on to the next quest hub.
- Generic Quests: Basically it's mostly kill 10 of that 10 of this. Or just pick up bear ass on every 2nd-3rd kill.
- Number of Quests and Time it takes to do them: There is usually small zones with a lot of quests in them. However they are very basic and usually don't even take more than a minute, or max 5min per quest. In WoW I used to average about 200+ quests per day
- Quest Depth and Story: Well if I take SWTOR out of the picture, quests don't really have any story, and there is definitively no depth. It's just mindless killing and looting. Mindset -> faster you're done with it, the better.
- Quests XP: Well it's definitively not the fastest way to level, but still feels to fast. I ended up in pretty much every zone extremely overleveled. Not that it matters in WoW, as I could just pick up on the group of mobs that were 5 lvls higher than me with no problem at all.
- Quests Danger and Difficulty: Simply put there isn't one. If you can't put 10 mobs in the grave in 1min, and you keep doing that from lets say mid level to max you are just considered a bad player.
Has anyone ever thought about the word "Quest", it's something that is supposed to have a very engaging and unique experience. And what has been happening with that in the last decade? Well you can see above, but as you can see Quests in other MMOs are a bad way to level up and bring nothing worth the "Grind" to the table.Luckily ESO went on the right path:ESO Quests:- Quest Hubs: I don't remember picking up more than 2 quests at once ever and usually tasks are not scattered throughout the whole zone.
- Number of Quests and Time it takes to do them: I wouldn't say there is a lot of quests in the zone (1 zone is as big as 5 other MMO zones combined, but with same number of quests), certainly not as much as I would like. The time it takes to do them varies, but there are many that take more than 30+ minutes to do them.
- Quest Depth and Story: It's currently best on the market along with SWTOR, still i'd say it's a bit better. I dont remember the last time I've had so much fun questing, or just reading everything. This quest system has more depth and story than 95% of RPG games released to date.
- Quests XP: Some would say not enough and they can prove it with facts that if you complete every quest in the zone you'll most likely not level up. But I think this is a good thing othervise we'd all end up overleveled. It's a genious thought to force you complete everything in the zone if you want to level up. Mindset -> If you want to progress, earn it.
- Quests Danger and Difficulty: There is plenty of dangers, from Skeevers to World Bosses. While I agree that they should fix classes as soon as possible, I really hope they don't nerf the content as well. It wouldn't be bad to add options for normal and hard difficulty. If you are struggling now, I'm honestly doubting that you will be doing anything that much better if they fix your class.
- Voice and Choices: This is something that is a MUST. I wish they improve voice acting and add more choices though.
ESO questing and veteran questing is NOT a grind. If you prefer generic quest models, then this just not your game. (Though it makes me wonder if anyone would complain if they completely removed quests from other MMOs - my guess? Probably not.
On contrary if you prefer engaging story and a quest model that makes you put quite an effort in it, then this is just the game you're looking for.
There are some things that need to be improved. At least more options for others to level up faster. Overally this department of the game is still incredibly well designed and could use just more content. On the other hand what really needs some fixes is - class balance and skills.17 -
Azzuria✭✭✭✭✭I'm not overly fond of playing the exact same quest in opposing faction lands, but doing it with a different class / builld mitigates that somewhat.
It would have been more interesting if the Faction-specific quests were replaced with ones that undermined the Faction, making you more of a spy-in-enemy-territory or gave you an opportunity to indirectely effect faction war outcomes in Cyrodiil. With only a little extra effort on the part of Devs we could have a viable, logical reason to be in opposing faction lands and a goal for completing the quests.Edited by Azzuria on June 10, 2014 7:50PMBrunhilda Icehammer - Nord Dragonknight, 'Smith & Enchantress 'What is 'ranged? I need to hit something!!'
Laehl Direthorn - Bosmer Nightblade, Purveyor of fine Clothes, Bows and Staves
Reeza gra-Zuni - Orc Templar 'War Shaman' and Apothecary
Noemi Snowpaw - Kajiit Dragon Knight - I laugh... or I'd have to kill you.
Kitera Dreamon - Breton of The Dominion: Because those Daggers don't appreciate a great Mage.
Lysara Shadowcroft - Dunmer Bloodmage: This will only hurt a lot.3 -
andersan✭✭✭I'm not overly fond of playing the exact same quest in opposing faction lands, but doing it with a different class / builld mitigates that somewhat.
It would have been more interesting if the Faction-specific quests were replaced with ones that undermined the Faction, making you more of a spy-in-enemy-territory or gave you an opportunity to indirectely effect faction war outcomes in Cyrodiil. With only a little extra effort on the part of Devs we could have a viable, logical reason to be in opposing faction lands and a goal for completing the quests.
The questing in contested zones in other games (have to use WoW) does this right. Both factions NPC's are undermining each other with the quests you do there.
FYI: Don't like WoW but it's got some good points to pull from (along with many bad points to avoid). I hoped ESO would use the good examples from other games along with adding in there own better newer stuff.
Edited by andersan on June 10, 2014 7:55PM2 -
hk11✭✭✭✭I like questing. But there is something about ESOs questing that is sort of brutal and exhausting. Maybe there are just too many? Maybe less with greater xp gain would have been better? I can't put my finger on it, but I just get exhausted after a while.1
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FunkyBudda✭✭✭FrauPerchta wrote: »You don't have to quest, you can grind mobs. Hell you just run around exploring things and gain a lvl or two. If you don't want to quest for XP and you don't want to grind mobs for XP what do you want to do to get XP to level? Just log on to character?
show me how you can run around, get exploration exp and gain a level or two in Veteran Ranks, that's what the OP was referring to.
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Belitseri✭✭✭I'm a reader. The greatest thing ever invented for me was a kindle. Now I don't look like I live in a fantasy library. So for me, questing is all about storylines. ESO fulfills my need to interact in a great novel. I get so caught up in just living the story that I don't even notice my level (vr1 right now) - much to the chagrin of my daughter who is trying to catch up lol. I'm a sot, I admittedly agonized over the sacrifice of the companion for Molog Bal, I get gleeful when dealing with Sheogorath, I adore Cadwell... so I'm having a great time just having fun. I'm actually laughing at myself for feeling conflicted about Angof in vr1 DC. I really felt for him in Coldharbour. /blush/ Yeah, some things are a bit tough and I tend to die here and there, usually being stupid, but who cares! I love the freedom of playing which reminds me a bit of old Ultima Online. I also admit I loved WoW and devoured the books more than felt all involved and caught up IN the game. That game was about raiding and lewts for me, it burned me out. So, ESO is awesome for the interaction/storyline stuff. No complaints there. Now if my Templar could be a bit more mana managing and fighty capable with a sword and board, I wouldn't mind that so much lol.5 -
Crisscross✭✭✭
ESO questing and veteran questing is NOT a grind. If you prefer generic quest models, then this just not your game. (Though it makes me wonder if anyone would complain if they completely removed quests from other MMOs - my guess? Probably not.Considered 'grinding'?
I see a lot of people complaining that they have to 'grind quests' in VR content.
Here I thought questing was the -point- of an epic fantasy game!
The same people who call questing 'grinding' also tend to complain about the lack of XP in dungeons and whine about not being able to level in PvP or by just slaughtering pack after pack after pack of mobs in the world.
Am I missing something or am I just to well-adjusted to understand that mindset?
On contrary if you prefer engaging story and a quest model that makes you put quite an effort in it, then this is just the game you're looking for.
There are some things that need to be improved. At least more options for others to level up faster. Overally this department of the game is still incredibly well designed and could use just more content. On the other hand what really needs some fixes is - class balance and skills.
ESO questing is a grind. Other games' questing is also a grind. To the OP, questing has ALWAYS been able to be considered a grind. I'm... not sure what rock you've been playing under.
ESO quests are more enjoyable, yes, but they still become a grind very very easily to most people. Not everyone can play Mass Effect 8 times, you know, which is the number of character slots we have in ESO.Edited by Crisscross on June 10, 2014 8:18PM4 -
HandofBane✭✭✭✭FunkyBudda wrote: »FrauPerchta wrote: »You don't have to quest, you can grind mobs. Hell you just run around exploring things and gain a lvl or two. If you don't want to quest for XP and you don't want to grind mobs for XP what do you want to do to get XP to level? Just log on to character?
show me how you can run around, get exploration exp and gain a level or two in Veteran Ranks, that's what the OP was referring to.
How sad I was when I realized the amount of XP given for exploration as a veteran level character... 4/7 of my V1 armor pieces had the Exploration trait on them.1 -
Elirienne✭✭✭✭FrauPerchta wrote: »If you don't want to quest for XP and you don't want to grind mobs for XP what do you want to do to get XP to level? Just log on to character?
This quote should be carved in stone and put on every logon screen.
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