Syrrisdevlin wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

plamillusionub17_ESO wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't gap closers require a target, and BE does not?
Perhaps they could revert the changes and make BE function similar to how storm atronach does (ground target reticle), giving it a skill element and not just a spammable "get out of jail free" card. /shrug

it still needs a general direction, you sure don't want to BE into an enemy's open arm.

ground target would be another big nerf, no gap closer requires you precisely aim and click the enemy.

yes they do you must have a clear highlight of your target when you us charge or any thing of that nature I cant just click charge while facing your general direction and charge to you I must have you highlighted so if your a smaller avatar then yes it req a little bit more skill to highlight you and use...with BE you can use it when ever you want in any direction ive seen guys BE up to me and the right past me and keep going and begone befor I can even mount up im glad they nerfed it but I agree we need more buffing not nerfing

I guess the question is, with lesser requirement on hard target being said, should it be nerfed to a point, that it practically needs 800 magicka (nearly best case scenario) to get out of gap closer's range?

if somebody have a problem with sorc traveling with BE in pvp, nerf that in pvp, I can't imagine nerfing to for both pvp and pve, for travel and for combat, altogether, and to such extent, just because somehow one aspect is broken.

Switch the mentality of bringing others back into line with another class for the sake of balance. Why not bring the class up to par with the others.
Why must it be a nerf? The word Nerf even sounds bad.
Lets change our thinking, if there is a weaker class or such, bring him up, not the others down. The skies the limit.

Let my people go!!

Venithar wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

the thing about gap CLOSERS is they can get you killed, pulled a guy onto a tower once using silver leash, got *** horribly.

Speaking of...

Teleport strike allows you to go through keep doors.
Dragon Leap allows you to jump from a tower to the top of a keep.

Bolt Escape allows you to waste magicka and not escape.

Lol true I've seen someone use teleport strike on someone as they went through a door, crazy thing, they died 5 seconds later, as they were trapped inside the keep walls with, unable to go back through the door. Dragon leap with the take flight morph does indeed allow a dk in the right keeps to jump from wall to top of keep, which usually means he gets a few kills then gets stomped by the whole defensive force.
With teleport strike it's just a weird timing issue, TS gets hit just before person clicks door, and target is still in range, so be it but nb is dead either way.
With Take flight, it's cool, kinda badass, but it more than likely will just get the dk killed.



oh and btw I've seen a sorc use bolt escape from a high point almost make it onto a keep wall, in just the right place it could easily happen.

Gisgo wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Corn Flower, Wormwood, Water = Problem solved (I also throw in Lady's Smock to round out mine as a Magicka pot).

Stop playing TESO at youtube!
Potions have 30 sec cooldown!

And a 10 seconds duration.
So they potentially can be up 33% of the time, with three people spamming potions you can keep the effect up 100% of the time.

Also im almost sure the effect of detection potions is shared by your group. Not sure its a bug.

It is, it's like any detection, if one person sees them every ally sees them.

drackonir wrote: »

And guess what guys? I see you all trying again to discuss with crislevin He will troll you all in everything that is about sorcerers skills. In his small word only other classes are prone to nerfs and balance but not sorcerers so talking to him is like attempting a kicking contests with a horse

at least give me credit for being so successful!

crislevin wrote: »

It should be balance, right? Bolt escape has a travel distance of 15 meters.

DK's chain reaches 22 meters and cost the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out of range fast, and two BE in a roll now cost (base)1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

NB's teleport strike also reaches 22 meters, cost about the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Edit, as suggested:

Templar's Focused Charge and it's morphs also reaches 22 meters, cost even less than bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Silver Leash (morph of Silver Bolt of Fighters Guild) reaches 28 meters!, doesn't even cost magicka, a sorc definitely need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Either these need out right higher cost (to 1000 base magicka or stamina, just as two BE in a roll would cost a sorc), or their ranges need to be shortened to 10 meters.

Absolutely right!
I'll hope that Zos make it, cause it would be fair and game must be balanced.
And after this changes i'll probably return to Cyrodiil.

Mykah wrote: »

The difference between gap closers and teleport is that gap closers are a gap closer and teleports are teleport. This is why they cost different amounts of resource.

Please feel free to use 2h and Shield gap close abilities since you feel they are so strong, they are available to every class.

wait, so a sorc shouldn't play ranged style at all without accepting the disadvantage in the resource cost? and everybody should just melee out?

then take out all classes and leave only one melee class, who need diversity here, right?

crislevin wrote: »

It should be balance, right? Bolt escape has a travel distance of 15 meters.

DK's chain reaches 22 meters and cost the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out of range fast, and two BE in a roll now cost (base)1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

NB's teleport strike also reaches 22 meters, cost about the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Edit, as suggested:

Templar's Focused Charge and it's morphs also reaches 22 meters, cost even less than bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Silver Leash (morph of Silver Bolt of Fighters Guild) reaches 28 meters!, doesn't even cost magicka, a sorc definitely need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Either these need out right higher cost (to 1000 base magicka or stamina, just as two BE in a roll would cost a sorc), or their ranges need to be shortened to 10 meters.

I do agree on the nerf, but you might be on to somthing ( But then agian you can use it very easy twice )

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

It should be balance, right? Bolt escape has a travel distance of 15 meters.

DK's chain reaches 22 meters and cost the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out of range fast, and two BE in a roll now cost (base)1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

NB's teleport strike also reaches 22 meters, cost about the same as bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Edit, as suggested:

Templar's Focused Charge and it's morphs also reaches 22 meters, cost even less than bolt escape, a sorc need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Silver Leash (morph of Silver Bolt of Fighters Guild) reaches 28 meters!, doesn't even cost magicka, a sorc definitely need two BE to get out the range, and two BE in a roll now cost (base) 1000 magicka and 700 with ALL the cost reductions.

Either these need out right higher cost (to 1000 base magicka or stamina, just as two BE in a roll would cost a sorc), or their ranges need to be shortened to 10 meters.

I do agree on the nerf, but you might be on to somthing ( But then agian you can use it very easy twice )

that is true if all of ranged dps Sorcs skills are instant cast in the 3 free slots of the hot bars. that are not taken up by mage light and / or BE. I can live with the 4 sec cast increase in cost, but to add magicka regen on top of that it's overkill. If they intend to have both added, increase the range of BE.

Aint we all using innerlight ? I actually think the nerf is rly good, finnaly they cant escape the last 10% hp like a troller.. ALWAYS..

Now you can catch up if you have more mana then him

Disagree 100%. Closers should have a longer range than extenders. Did it ever cross your mind that fighting and actually playing the game is what the devs intended? Not running away and hiding. That isn't fun for anyone.

crislevin wrote: »

Insightful for sure, thanks for taking time to think and write these.

For 1 v1 and when I get sneaked upon, your theory probably works.

In a battle, where I have to participate, am I able to reserve 1/3 to 1/2 of my magicka to use two BE in a roll? 3 in a roll is simply impossible, and how can I be sure I am out of EVERYBODY's range, since every other class can close on me?

Then you have to be cognizant of what's going on around you. You're looking at BE as if it's literally supposed to fix every dumb thing you did up to the point that you use it. It cannot be a 100% failsafe, because that would mean it's broken. You have to be aware and think about positioning now, just like every other class in the game. This is balance. This one ability allowed you to escape essentially every bad situation in the game every time, now it will still do that but you actually have to think about what you're doing instead of just jumping into the middle of a pack of enemies knowing that you can easily get out of that pack. You have to think about your resources at least a little bit, you have to think about the terrain, you have to think about what your enemies are doing. If you do these things, you'll be just as successful with BE as you were before, save when you're fighting a player who's even better at doing these things. Balance.

Case in point, last night I was involved in a small encounter, 5-6 randoms on my side vs 5-6 enemies in a group. We won, but guess who got away? The sorcerer. After a decently long fight, he saw that they were being wiped, and started bolting away. He bolted 5 times in a row. I was the only one who pursued but I didn't manage my resources too well. I'm in full leather (read: very fast sprint speed) and was sprinting over Refreshing Path casts. I was moving at the speed of an average horse and I had to pop a magicka potion halfway through the chase. He used the terrain to break line of sight and confuse me just long enough that he had time to cast Dark Exchange as I was coming around a rock. I was pretty much out of resources at this point, even though I had caught up to him. Because he was smarter about his resource management, use of terrain, and timing, he had full health and magicka again and easily killed me. Then he ran away jumping for joy.

The point is, that encounter could have gone either way and what determined it was player skill, not who had the better active ability slotted. This wasn't the case before. If a sorcerer started to BE, I would literally ignore them because there was roughly zero chance of catching them, even if I was a far better player in general.

Venithar wrote: »

Your math is wrong, ZoS doesn't know how to nerf things properly. *IF* I only had to pay 1.5x my pre-patch cost, I wouldn't mind; however, it's 1.5x the base cost, not the reduced cost from armor and what not. Further, we are double penalized, we get a mana regen stop when we cast it as well, so we lose more mana there as well.

Fair enough. My calculation may be wrong. However, my starting point of 8 casts pre-patch must have been wrong as well. I'd like to point to my experience last night again as direct evidence: the sorcerer I fought bolted 5 times in a row at the end of a tough fight where he was clearly using up resources. Maybe he used potions, too, though? Ok, so now all that's changed is sorcerers actually have a use for potions. Again, the point of the change is that it removes literal invincibility from sorcerers but leaves it for smart sorcerers.

joshisanonymous wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

Insightful for sure, thanks for taking time to think and write these.

For 1 v1 and when I get sneaked upon, your theory probably works.

In a battle, where I have to participate, am I able to reserve 1/3 to 1/2 of my magicka to use two BE in a roll? 3 in a roll is simply impossible, and how can I be sure I am out of EVERYBODY's range, since every other class can close on me?

Then you have to be cognizant of what's going on around you. You're looking at BE as if it's literally supposed to fix every dumb thing you did up to the point that you use it. It cannot be a 100% failsafe, because that would mean it's broken. You have to be aware and think about positioning now, just like every other class in the game. This is balance. This one ability allowed you to escape essentially every bad situation in the game every time, now it will still do that but you actually have to think about what you're doing instead of just jumping into the middle of a pack of enemies knowing that you can easily get out of that pack. You have to think about your resources at least a little bit, you have to think about the terrain, you have to think about what your enemies are doing. If you do these things, you'll be just as successful with BE as you were before, save when you're fighting a player who's even better at doing these things. Balance.

Case in point, last night I was involved in a small encounter, 5-6 randoms on my side vs 5-6 enemies in a group. We won, but guess who got away? The sorcerer. After a decently long fight, he saw that they were being wiped, and started bolting away. He bolted 5 times in a row. I was the only one who pursued but I didn't manage my resources too well. I'm in full leather (read: very fast sprint speed) and was sprinting over Refreshing Path casts. I was moving at the speed of an average horse and I had to pop a magicka potion halfway through the chase. He used the terrain to break line of sight and confuse me just long enough that he had time to cast Dark Exchange as I was coming around a rock. I was pretty much out of resources at this point, even though I had caught up to him. Because he was smarter about his resource management, use of terrain, and timing, he had full health and magicka again and easily killed me. Then he ran away jumping for joy.

The point is, that encounter could have gone either way and what determined it was player skill, not who had the better active ability slotted. This wasn't the case before. If a sorcerer started to BE, I would literally ignore them because there was roughly zero chance of catching them, even if I was a far better player in general.

Venithar wrote: »

Your math is wrong, ZoS doesn't know how to nerf things properly. *IF* I only had to pay 1.5x my pre-patch cost, I wouldn't mind; however, it's 1.5x the base cost, not the reduced cost from armor and what not. Further, we are double penalized, we get a mana regen stop when we cast it as well, so we lose more mana there as well.

Fair enough. My calculation may be wrong. However, my starting point of 8 casts pre-patch must have been wrong as well. I'd like to point to my experience last night again as direct evidence: the sorcerer I fought bolted 5 times in a row at the end of a tough fight where he was clearly using up resources. Maybe he used potions, too, though? Ok, so now all that's changed is sorcerers actually have a use for potions. Again, the point of the change is that it removes literal invincibility from sorcerers but leaves it for smart sorcerers.

Sums it up. Great Job. Now they close this thread and label it as "answered"

NerfEverything wrote: »

AlexDrago wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Disagree 100%. ....

Of course you are. But that is because you are not Sorc, right, and have those OP gap closer abilities.

LOL @ the only class with both a gap closer and gap extender crying that the other classes are OP. Sorry buddy, but no one cares about your tears.

But i'm not crying, as DK or NB abot "running away" sorc. You know, i just want a fair play, no more.
And i' m not your buddy, find anyone else.

crislevin wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Disagree 100%. Closers should have a longer range than extenders. Did it ever cross your mind that fighting and actually playing the game is what the devs intended? Not running away and hiding. That isn't fun for anyone.

fight is intended, are sorc all supposed to fight in melee range?

Nope, that is exactly why they made the change. To prevent it from being spammed as a way to get out of fights. The new bolt escape functions perfectly for keeping sorcs in casting range without allowing them free outs.

Maybe you need to rethink what you are complaining about.

FunkyBudda wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Disagree 100%. Closers should have a longer range than extenders. Did it ever cross your mind that fighting and actually playing the game is what the devs intended? Not running away and hiding. That isn't fun for anyone.

so all fighting should be melee, and range combat is for PvE only? Sure, show me one successful MMOs that have done it and embraced by their intended target audience.

it really looks like you're saying that no one should be able to close range with a ranged fighter for long enough to get a kill, yeah that sounds balanced.