Gap closer needs nerf now gap extender is nerfed
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LordEcks✭✭✭Really dont understand why Sorcs feel they are entitled a nearly 100% fool-proof escape method.
IMO the only class who should get that is NB, in the form of some kind of med/long duration stealth/invis ability.2 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, they need to "fix" Dark Cloak too - this is not intended! Damn, they able to use it 5-7 times per row and sitting in stealth for 20 sec!
With vampire last passive they able to run from on keep to another in stealth!
Not intended!
Fix it ASAP!- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
bull crap, manipulating distance isn't part of fighting? where did you goto military school? east point?infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
Because there's a difference between manipulating distance and exploiting a poorly designed ability system. For example lets look at your nerfed escape ability.
Most MMO's have these sort of escape abilities but most MMO's also have a cool down system. Idea is that you use these abilities on emergency situations only like a big red AoE you need to get out of but after that it goes on a long cool down and you can't use it for a period of time, it's what we'd call a defensive cool down.
In this game though there is no cool down system, instead we rely on managing resources to use our abilities which quite frankly is not compatible with these type of defensive abilities and anyone in the right build/gear set can just spam these emergency abilities to keep alive. What they've done now to sorcs however by introducing a penalty for over-abuse of these sort of defensive abilities is a step in the right direction. If anything sorc's are lucky they aren't gutting the class like they are doing with others atm.
As for your gap closer argument, why should they balance gap closers around an ability that only one class has? How do you think everyone else manages without BE?
Good question, I know how they manage without BE, they close gap and stun lock others! With CHEAP gap closer, I might add.
You truly believe increase cost by 100% is the way to nef BE?
But your sorc can use gap closers/stuns, nobody else has a gap opener ability i.e. they can't jump 15 meters away from the target instantly. So why should all gap closers be balanced around an ability only one class has?
because they are crying children who are terrible at pvp who are upset they cant spam bolt escape anymore.
lets dont get carry away and name calling people, shall we?0 -
Valn✭✭✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
bull crap, manipulating distance isn't part of fighting? where did you goto military school? east point?infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
Because there's a difference between manipulating distance and exploiting a poorly designed ability system. For example lets look at your nerfed escape ability.
Most MMO's have these sort of escape abilities but most MMO's also have a cool down system. Idea is that you use these abilities on emergency situations only like a big red AoE you need to get out of but after that it goes on a long cool down and you can't use it for a period of time, it's what we'd call a defensive cool down.
In this game though there is no cool down system, instead we rely on managing resources to use our abilities which quite frankly is not compatible with these type of defensive abilities and anyone in the right build/gear set can just spam these emergency abilities to keep alive. What they've done now to sorcs however by introducing a penalty for over-abuse of these sort of defensive abilities is a step in the right direction. If anything sorc's are lucky they aren't gutting the class like they are doing with others atm.
As for your gap closer argument, why should they balance gap closers around an ability that only one class has? How do you think everyone else manages without BE?
Good question, I know how they manage without BE, they close gap and stun lock others! With CHEAP gap closer, I might add.
You truly believe increase cost by 100% is the way to nef BE?
But your sorc can use gap closers/stuns, nobody else has a gap opener ability i.e. they can't jump 15 meters away from the target instantly. So why should all gap closers be balanced around an ability only one class has?
because they are crying children who are terrible at pvp who are upset they cant spam bolt escape anymore.
lets dont get carry away and name calling people, shall we?
name calling? what's wrong with calling someone a child when they are acting like and crying like child? do you have something against children or something?0 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
bull crap, manipulating distance isn't part of fighting? where did you goto military school? east point?infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
Because there's a difference between manipulating distance and exploiting a poorly designed ability system. For example lets look at your nerfed escape ability.
Most MMO's have these sort of escape abilities but most MMO's also have a cool down system. Idea is that you use these abilities on emergency situations only like a big red AoE you need to get out of but after that it goes on a long cool down and you can't use it for a period of time, it's what we'd call a defensive cool down.
In this game though there is no cool down system, instead we rely on managing resources to use our abilities which quite frankly is not compatible with these type of defensive abilities and anyone in the right build/gear set can just spam these emergency abilities to keep alive. What they've done now to sorcs however by introducing a penalty for over-abuse of these sort of defensive abilities is a step in the right direction. If anything sorc's are lucky they aren't gutting the class like they are doing with others atm.
As for your gap closer argument, why should they balance gap closers around an ability that only one class has? How do you think everyone else manages without BE?
Good question, I know how they manage without BE, they close gap and stun lock others! With CHEAP gap closer, I might add.
You truly believe increase cost by 100% is the way to nef BE?
But your sorc can use gap closers/stuns, nobody else has a gap opener ability i.e. they can't jump 15 meters away from the target instantly. So why should all gap closers be balanced around an ability only one class has?
because they are crying children who are terrible at pvp who are upset they cant spam bolt escape anymore.
lets dont get carry away and name calling people, shall we?
name calling? what's wrong with calling someone a child when they are acting like and crying like child? do you have something against children or something?
Actually it makes you seem like a child when you call others one.0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
bull crap, manipulating distance isn't part of fighting? where did you goto military school? east point?infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
Because there's a difference between manipulating distance and exploiting a poorly designed ability system. For example lets look at your nerfed escape ability.
Most MMO's have these sort of escape abilities but most MMO's also have a cool down system. Idea is that you use these abilities on emergency situations only like a big red AoE you need to get out of but after that it goes on a long cool down and you can't use it for a period of time, it's what we'd call a defensive cool down.
In this game though there is no cool down system, instead we rely on managing resources to use our abilities which quite frankly is not compatible with these type of defensive abilities and anyone in the right build/gear set can just spam these emergency abilities to keep alive. What they've done now to sorcs however by introducing a penalty for over-abuse of these sort of defensive abilities is a step in the right direction. If anything sorc's are lucky they aren't gutting the class like they are doing with others atm.
As for your gap closer argument, why should they balance gap closers around an ability that only one class has? How do you think everyone else manages without BE?
Good question, I know how they manage without BE, they close gap and stun lock others! With CHEAP gap closer, I might add.
You truly believe increase cost by 100% is the way to nef BE?
But your sorc can use gap closers/stuns, nobody else has a gap opener ability i.e. they can't jump 15 meters away from the target instantly. So why should all gap closers be balanced around an ability only one class has?
because they are crying children who are terrible at pvp who are upset they cant spam bolt escape anymore.
lets dont get carry away and name calling people, shall we?
name calling? what's wrong with calling someone a child when they are acting like and crying like child? do you have something against children or something?
I have problem with child name calling other people child.0 -
Valn✭✭✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
bull crap, manipulating distance isn't part of fighting? where did you goto military school? east point?infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »
Because there's a difference between manipulating distance and exploiting a poorly designed ability system. For example lets look at your nerfed escape ability.
Most MMO's have these sort of escape abilities but most MMO's also have a cool down system. Idea is that you use these abilities on emergency situations only like a big red AoE you need to get out of but after that it goes on a long cool down and you can't use it for a period of time, it's what we'd call a defensive cool down.
In this game though there is no cool down system, instead we rely on managing resources to use our abilities which quite frankly is not compatible with these type of defensive abilities and anyone in the right build/gear set can just spam these emergency abilities to keep alive. What they've done now to sorcs however by introducing a penalty for over-abuse of these sort of defensive abilities is a step in the right direction. If anything sorc's are lucky they aren't gutting the class like they are doing with others atm.
As for your gap closer argument, why should they balance gap closers around an ability that only one class has? How do you think everyone else manages without BE?
Good question, I know how they manage without BE, they close gap and stun lock others! With CHEAP gap closer, I might add.
You truly believe increase cost by 100% is the way to nef BE?
But your sorc can use gap closers/stuns, nobody else has a gap opener ability i.e. they can't jump 15 meters away from the target instantly. So why should all gap closers be balanced around an ability only one class has?
because they are crying children who are terrible at pvp who are upset they cant spam bolt escape anymore.
lets dont get carry away and name calling people, shall we?
name calling? what's wrong with calling someone a child when they are acting like and crying like child? do you have something against children or something?
I have problem with child name calling other people child.
thats nice to know.1 -
ThreeEyedCrow✭✭✭Did you ever heard about crouching?
Doesn't that go both ways?
If you are afraid of stealthed melee gankers, then go stealth yourself.
If any class is lollygagging around on a horse through hostile territory, they are probably going to get ganked by any other class.V12 Corporal
Victoria Concordia Crescit0 -
Bolo_Bob✭✭✭this popcorn tastes great, because it was cooked with the flames from this thread.
looks like to me the balance argument only applies when most pro nerfers are not playing/using the class/skill being nerfed.
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ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭please show a screenshot of your cloak cost and equipment of cost reductions.
I'm pretty sure you can just look up the skill details. As a non-mage NB I have to balance my regen and cost reductions. I can't just put everything into one magicka basket like sorcerers and spam the bejeezus out of any button.
So, please, "nerf" Cloak like BE. Bring the initial cost down to BE level (oh yeah please) then have the "nerf" make it cost the same as it currently does and "nerf" our magicka regen while cloaked (like it currently does). Bring in this "nerf" now. Where do I sign?!
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crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »please show a screenshot of your cloak cost and equipment of cost reductions.
I'm pretty sure you can just look up the skill details. As a non-mage NB I have to balance my regen and cost reductions. I can't just put everything into one magicka basket like sorcerers and spam the bejeezus out of any button.
So, please, "nerf" Cloak like BE. Bring the initial cost down to BE level (oh yeah please) then have the "nerf" make it cost the same as it currently does and "nerf" our magicka regen while cloaked (like it currently does). Bring in this "nerf" now. Where do I sign?!
open a thread and sign it!
don't forget the initial cost is about the same! 400 vs 400, next cast, enjoy your 600 cloak! glad you like it!
wait, it is not even a gap closer, how did you get into this discussion again?3 -
ferzalrwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭open a thread and sign it!
don't forget the initial cost is about the same! 400 vs 400, next cast, enjoy your 600 cloak! glad you like it!
wait, it is not even a gap closer, how did you get into this discussion again?
You left out the bit where I said bring the initial cost down to current BE level.
As for it not being in the discussion.. it's being thrown around with, well, just about anything and everything. Nerf everything! Because one button is now only very spammable instead of infinitely spammable for sorcerers.
Whine whine whine whine. Funny stuff. Keep going.
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Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, they need to "fix" Dark Cloak too - this is not intended! Damn, they able to use it 5-7 times per row and sitting in stealth for 20 sec!
With vampire last passive they able to run from on keep to another in stealth!
Not intended!
Fix it ASAP!
Corn Flower, Wormwood, Water = Problem solved (I also throw in Lady's Smock to round out mine as a Magicka pot).
Stealth/Invisibility countering is legitimatly a "Learn To Play" issue...I murder Nightblade's all the time when they think they can use invisibility to GTFO.
But that's irrelevant. Bolt Escape was never a problem... Magicka Spamming anything due to stacking cost reduction, compounded with the innate synergies wearing a bath robe and using a razzle dazzle stick make a complete mockery of any intended game balance. Using Bolt Escape is fine, just like Impulse, Dark Talons, Biting Jabs, etc. Being able to use them 10+ times back to back was the problem. But do they fix the root cause? Nope! ZOS would rather play wack-a-mole with the Nerf hammer.
@ZOS BUFF MEDIUM ARMOR. BUFF HEAVY ARMOR. BUFF STAMINA/WEAPON SKILLS. NERF LIGHT ARMOR COST REDUCTION. NERF LIGHT ARMOR SPELL RESIST BYPASS. NERF ULTIMATE COST REDUCTION. NERF ULTIMATE GENERATION FROM AOE.
= PROBLEM SOLVED
...oh and undo the Nerf to Biting Jabs, Dark Talons, and Bolt Escape while your at it. Fix the effin' Nightblade already, and for the love of all that is holy make the Werewolf not suck a giant bag of donkey ***2 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »open a thread and sign it!
don't forget the initial cost is about the same! 400 vs 400, next cast, enjoy your 600 cloak! glad you like it!
wait, it is not even a gap closer, how did you get into this discussion again?
You left out the bit where I said bring the initial cost down to current BE level.
As for it not being in the discussion.. it's being thrown around with, well, just about anything and everything. Nerf everything! Because one button is now only very spammable instead of infinitely spammable for sorcerers.
Whine whine whine whine. Funny stuff. Keep going.
I didn't, BE has a base cost of 400 magicka, that IS initial cost. Maybe you should do some research before making repeated false statement?0 -
Venithar✭✭✭infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »As for your gap closer argument, why should they balance gap closers around an ability that only one class has? How do you think everyone else manages without BE?
self heals/HoTs0 -
InvictoNZ✭✭✭Because going into combat is identical to exiting combat...
PvP is about getting AP, not denying AP. If dying is a hindrance, try not dying in the first place.
I personally go into combat against odds expecting to die, only to have my group pull though. (laughs at AD zergs last night).
Having a Sorc run from every fight is so boring. Fight win/die, repeat.
Real Sorc use BE to enter combat. Only noobs use it to exit combat.
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭2 months ago i was one of those hoping for BE nerf, then i realized i could just stop chasing the sorcs for 30 minutes and let them go home in peace...
bolt escape was not OP.
(templar here) VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer1 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because going into combat is identical to exiting combat...
PvP is about getting AP, not denying AP. If dying is a hindrance, try not dying in the first place.
I personally go into combat against odds expecting to die, only to have my group pull though. (laughs at AD zergs last night).
Having a Sorc run from every fight is so boring. Fight win/die, repeat.
Real Sorc use BE to enter combat. Only noobs use it to exit combat.
LOL, except you don't get to demand what a sorc do, as long as they pay the sub, they can play whatever style they want.
Now get back to the numbers and facts.0 -
HelpingHand✭✭✭It does say Escape in the name. Used to escape? Requires no target to use. Sorcs have been abusing this ability left and right. The rest of us used what we had access to so that we could attempt to 'keep' up with you, running off into the distance because you failed to be sneaking, or just don't know how to maintain a safe distance. Eat your adjustment like the rest of us and get over it. ZOS isn't going to 'nerf' gap closers. They are balanced with your 'Escape' just fine.Edited by HelpingHand on June 10, 2014 1:45AM0
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Yasha✭✭✭✭✭So how does the Templar/NB/DK escape from those gap closers?
BE is still one of the most powerful abilities in the game and lets sorcerers do something that no other class can do- teleport with no target.
It is also an instant cast stun that again requires no target.
It just sounds like people have built themselves around the near invincible BE skill and haven't really had to think how to fight like every other class does.0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chains almost never work in PvP, it's suppose to pull the player to you but it bugs more often than not.0 -
crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭So how does the Templar/NB/DK escape from those gap closers?
BE is still one of the most powerful abilities in the game and lets sorcerers do something that no other class can do- teleport with no target.
It is also an instant cast stun that again requires no target.
It just sounds like people have built themselves around the near invincible BE skill and haven't really had to think how to fight like every other class does.
Wait, are you saying melee classes don't know how to melee? and ranged class should stick around and melee? fascinating.tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Chains almost never work in PvP, it's suppose to pull the player to you but it bugs more often than not.
well, tell to the DK who pull me over from keep wall. Is that supposed to be a legit argument?
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Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorc needed a hard counter, suck it up.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
Yasha✭✭✭✭✭So how does the Templar/NB/DK escape from those gap closers?
BE is still one of the most powerful abilities in the game and lets sorcerers do something that no other class can do- teleport with no target.
It is also an instant cast stun that again requires no target.
It just sounds like people have built themselves around the near invincible BE skill and haven't really had to think how to fight like every other class does.
Wait, are you saying melee classes don't know how to melee? and ranged class should stick around and melee? fascinating.
Where did I say "melee class" and why do you imply sorc is ranged?
You are just proving my point that you have not really thought deeply about how things work in this game because you have relied on a very OP skill to do all the lifting for you.
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I think everyone is overreacting. DKs can pull with chain, cool. I get pulled in a lot. I roll away. NBs close gap and stun. Suck it up and pound them when u recover. Sorcs can run away with BE?? Who cares?? Run away and live to fight see if I care. One less person between me and my objective. And if you're running with BE, odds are there is a person near me on my side who has it too and they will chase. It evens out. I say give the Sorcs back BE if they just want to run. I use NB gap close to fight. I use stealth when I run out of stamina from sneaking. Both hurt a NB. No stam? Less damage and can't roll out of attacks/dodge/block. No magicka from spamming cloak? Can't use skills to do bigger damage or even gap close. People just need to play smarter and use strategy. I vote no more nerfing of any skills. I actually like running into a powerful sorc or DK that takes some tactics and a few teammates to take down. Adds some variety to a battle.2
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crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
✭
right, sorc is not ranged, and temp/NB/DK is not melee. Your statement gets more and more fascinating.So how does the Templar/NB/DK escape from those gap closers?
BE is still one of the most powerful abilities in the game and lets sorcerers do something that no other class can do- teleport with no target.
It is also an instant cast stun that again requires no target.
It just sounds like people have built themselves around the near invincible BE skill and haven't really had to think how to fight like every other class does.
Wait, are you saying melee classes don't know how to melee? and ranged class should stick around and melee? fascinating.
Where did I say "melee class" and why do you imply sorc is ranged?
You are just proving my point that you have not really thought deeply about how things work in this game because you have relied on a very OP skill to do all the lifting for you.
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HelpingHand✭✭✭right, sorc is not ranged, and temp/NB/DK is not melee. Your statement gets more and more fascinating.
You can build a melee Sorc. I have one. Dual wield.Edited by HelpingHand on June 10, 2014 2:13AM1
