To balance things out - making melee, medium and heavy armor viable.

SilverWF · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

i don`t get why people rage about it.

This is a perfect excuse for self-noobish, obviously!

Reykice · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

you guys are talking like you dont have nothing in your med skill tree.

They need to have brain to using all of this stuff, but they didn't.
I'm very rarly see melee who trying to do dodge or attack from behind a target, damn, just moving while fighting.
They are just staying in front of monster and pushing skills, no blocking, no interrupting, then died and going to complain at forums - "give us Win-Button and nerf this damn mages!"

Most of mages are more professional players than most of melee
Discuss ^^

He is a troll

When people can`t figure out that both medium and light armor users get the same crit/cost reduction/regeneration and the only difference is that the medium/heavy armor has the cost reduction on the weapon so both Medium AND Heavy Armor users can use that weapon while the Light Armor crit buff is a skill that takes up a slot...

Then my question is: Is he trolling or is everyone else trolling? because you can`t miss that they are pretty much the same in that regard.

Malmai · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

Amen but...

SilverWF · June 2014

Some stuff from med.armor users

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

deacon13 · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

There are 1.2k comments on what is wrong with NB at the top of this forum . Im glad you know sooo much .
You failed to mention that Crystal Shard STUNS the mob so a light armor could have no armor value and still have more survivability than a NB
You also failed to mention that a lot of the stam abilities have no effect on the mob like Bloodcraze doesn't work on a lot of mobs same as Sparks . Those are in the DW tree btw .
You failed to mention that Stam based abilities are the lowest damage abilities there for increasing the time of a fight and decreasing the survivability of NBs
You failed to mention that all class skills are magika based and NBs have almost no way of regening their abilities so making them use the lesser Stam based abilities .

Reykice · June 2014

This is what ZENIMAX can`t really say... they can`t go about "some players are having problems because they have bad builds, don`t interrupt enemy casters, don`t dodge attacks and so on".

On the AD side in greenshade there is a World Boss, a Storm Attronach. That`s like the first World Boss immune to CC on the AD side. I soloed that with 2 characters now, he is lvl 28 i am level 30 when i reach it as i do all the quests and so on. I have seen groups of 2-3 players die to it and i have seen Veteran 1-4 rank players die to it.

There is nothing ZENIMAX can do about that... good players will always find a way while the average player will sometimes struggle.

You can ask for separate difficulties for each area... like in Single Player games where some play on Normal while others go for the Master/Insane/Maximum difficulty.... that`s the only way to make the content fun for players of different skill levels.

Right now the content is on Medium i`d say.... you need some planning in your build and some knowledge of game mechanics to be able to solo your way with no problems...

Malmai · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

There are 1.2k comments on what is wrong with NB at the top of this forum . Im glad you know sooo much .
You failed to mention that Crystal Shard STUNS the mob so a light armor could have no armor value and still have more survivability than a NB
You also failed to mention that a lot of the stam abilities have no effect on the mob like Bloodcraze doesn't work on a lot of mobs same as Sparks . Those are in the DW tree btw .
You failed to mention that Stam based abilities are the lowest damage abilities there for increasing the time of a fight and decreasing the survivability of NBs
You failed to mention that all class skills are magika based and NBs have almost no way of regening their abilities so making them use the lesser Stam based abilities .

Try using MED armor and Siphoning Attacks and you will have unlimited Magicka, Stamina...

deacon13 · June 2014

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

bow damage already good. use armor decrease enchants.

If Bow damage was good . Why are people using Staff ?

Staff is higher DPS

Staff what? The basic attacks? Those scale via stamina and weapon damage so if he is using them he is using stamin

bg22 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

remove magicka discount and magicka regen from light armor , problem solved

And there will be no Healers and Sorcs.. Smart Thinking...

I highly doubt there would be no healers if they couldn't add -17 magicka per skill cost. But anyway... The post you quoted and your post are irrelevant.

Why would they do that ? What is point in having 750 armor vs 1700armor and no benefits ? Just because couple of guys are constantly whining and making whine threads.

@Malmai‌
The point would then be teamwork. You protect me, and I heal you kinda thing.

Ya know.. The way it's supposed to be.

Not, "oh, let me heal, use this spell and my ring and have the same armor as these guys wearing full plate."

The benefit is you can heal. I thought that was obvious?

You can always add -17 stamina on rings... just like you can magicka...

You make it sound like you can only do it one way....

Also, staff spells scale with WEAPON DAMAGE. Not Spell Power like Class Skills... so a caster has to decide what to use as he can`t really use both....

As for Armor... the real Heavy Armor users are the ones hitting the Hard Cap... that`s 50% mitigation compared to the 15% light armor gets, its a huge difference.
Getting Armor Soft Capped is not hard because it doesn`t really do much... the Hard Cap is where its at.

a thousand times this ^^

Healing cookie cutter build robe users who think that armr doesn't matter is such a pain I stopped doing it. Healing a tank who is in heavy armr with hard cap is a joy. So sick of people who think soft cap matters.

Reykice · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

There are 1.2k comments on what is wrong with NB at the top of this forum . Im glad you know sooo much .
You failed to mention that Crystal Shard STUNS the mob so a light armor could have no armor value and still have more survivability than a NB
You also failed to mention that a lot of the stam abilities have no effect on the mob like Bloodcraze doesn't work on a lot of mobs same as Sparks . Those are in the DW tree btw .
You failed to mention that Stam based abilities are the lowest damage abilities there for increasing the time of a fight and decreasing the survivability of NBs
You failed to mention that all class skills are magika based and NBs have almost no way of regening their abilities so making them use the lesser Stam based abilities .

And yet there is a popular video showing a Nighblade Soloing 4 man content in Craglorn... as i said before, its the player.

You know when they made the Veteran NPC`s have 50% extra HP and Damage? A NB made a video of how he was soloing 3 NPC`s with no problems... look that one up too.

As for regenerating resources... the NB has the BEST regeneration in the game with Siphoning Strikes. You can pretty much NEVER run out of resources when using that and the damage reduction is about 10%... the TOP Nightblades are using that skill to beat Sorcs/DK`s in damage per second....

As for Crystal Shard yes if you spam it at one NPC it stuns him... very nice when its ONE NPC... but i doubt anyone is having problems with ONE lonely NPC. Its when its 2 or 3 people have trouble and Crystal Shard won`t help you there either.

Really, what people need are guides, there are builds for every class that enable a player to solo well but most never find them.

Look up the ones mentioned above, if they are able to solo 4 man group content you should have no problems in normal PvE. At least you will know what works.

Malmai · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

A V10 before nerf. Probably in end game gear and also Emperor owning some 20-30 newbies ye?

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Also, staff spells scale with WEAPON DAMAGE. Not Spell Power like Class Skills... so a caster has to decide what to use as he can`t really use both....

As for Armor... the real Heavy Armor users are the ones hitting the Hard Cap... that`s 50% mitigation compared to the 15% light armor gets, its a huge difference.
Getting Armor Soft Capped is not hard because it doesn`t really do much... the Hard Cap is where its at.

So the fact that a staff has near identical weapon damage to a 2h sword (maybe falling 10% short) suddenly makes the staff spells (that scale with magicka) ***?

Reykice · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

That has nothing to do with armor:))

Those are all DK class skills, most were nerfed. That video was made 2 months ago...

That player is also an Emperor as in he has TWICE the magicka and stamina a normal character has... so he does a lot more damage and he is able to heal himself a lot better....

He is using the Resto Staff for the 10% damage bonus so he has no staff damage skills as the Resto Staff has none.

That`s like showing a Vampire soloing 20 people... yes he could do that but they were also nerfed, its history by now.

As the user above said, Siphoning Strikes = unlimited resources no matter the Armor Type... a Nightblade only skill. No other class has that. Templars used to have something similar but it was nerfed as it was OP... and it was only restoring Magicka... so go figure.

You see what i was saying about trolling tho? You say NB`s can`t regen resources while the actual truth is that they are the best at regenerating stamina/magicka out of all the classes. No other class even compares to them...

Reykice · June 2014

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Also, staff spells scale with WEAPON DAMAGE. Not Spell Power like Class Skills... so a caster has to decide what to use as he can`t really use both....

As for Armor... the real Heavy Armor users are the ones hitting the Hard Cap... that`s 50% mitigation compared to the 15% light armor gets, its a huge difference.
Getting Armor Soft Capped is not hard because it doesn`t really do much... the Hard Cap is where its at.

So the fact that a staff has near identical weapon damage to a 2h sword (maybe falling 10% short) suddenly makes the staff spells (that scale with magicka) ***?

Staff auto attacks scale with Weapon Damage and Stamina while their spells scale with Magicka and Weapon Damage. Staff auto attacks and abilities use Spell Crit.

So unless you have some build that has Weapon Damage, Stamina, Magicka and HP at Soft Cap + Spell Crit... i`d say it doesn`t compare.

Also... a Staff has a lot less Weapon Damage by default compared to a Two Hander or Duel Wield... a lot less actually. Where did you see they are even remotely close?

Malmai · June 2014

There are so many factors here involved how to get better like change build try something new you don't know all and you didn't tried all skills, get decent set gear, get some food, potions, do combos, tactics this guys on youtube did all that they calculated everything and they are playing with brains not automode. Easiest way is to call for something that you don't know how to deal with.

Reykice · June 2014

Yes... having a food buff always on and making sure you craft new weapons every 2 levels and new gear + enchantments every goes without saying...

Also, the Soft Cap is just that, a Soft Cap... don`t stop just because you reach it go over it, you still get benefits and if you are looking at melee weapons you really have no reason not to overcharge stamina... same for magicka builds....

Daethz · June 2014

buff all medium and heavy armor benefits, buff all melee weapon spells and passives.
Don't touch bow and mabye even nerf it a little, its already too strong in pvp.

jelliedsoup · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

That has nothing to do with armor:))

Those are all DK class skills, most were nerfed. That video was made 2 months ago...

That player is also an Emperor as in he has TWICE the magicka and st

You see what i was saying about trolling tho? You say NB`s can`t regen resources while the actual truth is that they are the best at regenerating stamina/magicka out of all the classes. No other class even compares to them...

At the cost of reducing the amount of damage when they deal low DPS anyway. Many NBS are medium armour and squishy. So we need to hit hard and fast or we're dead. Siphoning strikes doesn't even come into it for me as things are over fairly quickly.

deacon13 · June 2014

Read the above
Fixing melee and medium and heavy armor
Forcing NBs to equip Resto Staff to compete is not fixed Melee combat .
Last I looked Sipohoning Strikes was around a 20% decrease to damage , could be less now but the regen was nerfed on a patch not to long ago also from like 4% to like 3% . Heck it might have been reduced to 2% .

So lets say your right and it decreases damage by 10% that effectively turns 10 abilities into 9 . So you just wasted lets say 300 Magika . You have 1500 magika and get 3% for 10 abilities that's 450 magika return . If that great I need to look up the definition . Now remember you are getting hit while taking longer to kill the mobs where exactly is the upside ? As far as Stam regen ...who cares ? Worst skills in the game .

If you are stupid enough to wear medium armor you will figure out how fast you will die all by yourself .

All the comments on this post appear to be written by non NBs who have no idea or experience with the class .

.

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

That has nothing to do with armor:))

Those are all DK class skills, most were nerfed. That video was made 2 months ago...

That player is also an Emperor as in he has TWICE the magicka and stamina a normal character has... so he does a lot more damage and he is able to heal himself a lot better....

He is using the Resto Staff for the 10% damage bonus so he has no staff damage skills as the Resto Staff has none.

That`s like showing a Vampire soloing 20 people... yes he could do that but they were also nerfed, its history by now.

As the user above said, Siphoning Strikes = unlimited resources no matter the Armor Type... a Nightblade only skill. No other class has that. Templars used to have something similar but it was nerfed as it was OP... and it was only restoring Magicka... so go figure.

You see what i was saying about trolling tho? You say NB`s can`t regen resources while the actual truth is that they are the best at regenerating stamina/magicka out of all the classes. No other class even compares to them...

Malmai · June 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

That has nothing to do with armor:))

Those are all DK class skills, most were nerfed. That video was made 2 months ago...

That player is also an Emperor as in he has TWICE the magicka and st

You see what i was saying about trolling tho? You say NB`s can`t regen resources while the actual truth is that they are the best at regenerating stamina/magicka out of all the classes. No other class even compares to them...

At the cost of reducing the amount of damage when they deal low DPS anyway. Many NBS are medium armour and squishy. So we need to hit hard and fast or we're dead. Siphoning strikes doesn't even come into it for me as things are over fairly quickly.

They do help but rest depends on you, also even in Heavy Armor you can't just stand there you must act quick learn the mechanics. The game gets more challenging... force you to think and fit up your build.

deacon13 · June 2014

Malmai wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

That has nothing to do with armor:))

Those are all DK class skills, most were nerfed. That video was made 2 months ago...

That player is also an Emperor as in he has TWICE the magicka and st

You see what i was saying about trolling tho? You say NB`s can`t regen resources while the actual truth is that they are the best at regenerating stamina/magicka out of all the classes. No other class even compares to them...

At the cost of reducing the amount of damage when they deal low DPS anyway. Many NBS are medium armour and squishy. So we need to hit hard and fast or we're dead. Siphoning strikes doesn't even come into it for me as things are over fairly quickly.

They do help but rest depends on you, also even in Heavy Armor you can't just stand there you must act quick learn the mechanics. The game gets more challenging... force you to think and fit up your build.

Forces you to think ? This is the easiest combat system there is ! Its freakin console combat .
Its broken . Absolutely no MELEE build comes close to Staff builds in dps or survivability .
The very game mechanics like mobs spamming AOEs destroy any change to do melee combat

Xsorus · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

The difference between a Caster DPS build, and a Stamina DPS build right now is 500 dps

So yea...please stop posting... your wrongness is physically hurting me with how wrong it is.

Reykice · June 2014

deacon13 wrote: »

Read the above
Fixing melee and medium and heavy armor
Forcing NBs to equip Resto Staff to compete is not fixed Melee combat .
Last I looked Sipohoning Strikes was around a 20% decrease to damage , could be less now but the regen was nerfed on a patch not to long ago also from like 4% to like 3% . Heck it might have been reduced to 2% .

So lets say your right and it decreases damage by 10% that effectively turns 10 abilities into 9 . So you just wasted lets say 300 Magika . You have 1500 magika and get 3% for 10 abilities that's 450 magika return . If that great I need to look up the definition . Now remember you are getting hit while taking longer to kill the mobs where exactly is the upside ? As far as Stam regen ...who cares ? Worst skills in the game .

If you are stupid enough to wear medium armor you will figure out how fast you will die all by yourself .

All the comments on this post appear to be written by non NBs who have no idea or experience with the class .

So the best way to regen magicka/stamina is not enough...

Also NB`s doing low dps really? Since the last patch that nerfed DK`s they are doing the same DPS as sorcs/dk`s...

As for Resto staff... its one way to heal yourself, you can use other things but you must use something... you can`t expect to go all full glass cannon and tank 3 NPC`s in the VR levels....

Also if you are a caster in Light Armor like you say you won`t have 1500 magicka, you will have 2000 or more... and you won`t use a 300 magicka damage spells after Light Armor Cost Reduction as NB`s have none... that`s the Sorcerer.... the NB ones are more like 200 - 230 magicka when you factor in the Light Armor cost reduction.

As for siphoning strikes yes it reduces Spell and Weapon POWER by 22%... but any ability has at least 2 things that increase its damage...

The people who use that ability are the ones in the top guilds, the ones on the Trial leaderboard... if you can make a better build feel free to...

deacon13 · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Some stuff from med.armor users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56cCjvIbfm0

Armor doesn't matter, but player does...

Lets see you PvPd and actually won with help .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWkd7pM2r1A
That's the difference .
Do you get it now ?

That has nothing to do with armor:))

Those are all DK class skills, most were nerfed. That video was made 2 months ago...

That player is also an Emperor as in he has TWICE the magicka and stamina a normal character has... so he does a lot more damage and he is able to heal himself a lot better....

He is using the Resto Staff for the 10% damage bonus so he has no staff damage skills as the Resto Staff has none.

That`s like showing a Vampire soloing 20 people... yes he could do that but they were also nerfed, its history by now.

As the user above said, Siphoning Strikes = unlimited resources no matter the Armor Type... a Nightblade only skill. No other class has that. Templars used to have something similar but it was nerfed as it was OP... and it was only restoring Magicka... so go figure.

You see what i was saying about trolling tho? You say NB`s can`t regen resources while the actual truth is that they are the best at regenerating stamina/magicka out of all the classes. No other class even compares to them...

1 .Has nothing to do with armor ? LOL not even gonna comment
2 That is NOT a DK skill he is spamming that is called Impulse look it up .
3 Yep twice the magika . Do you see him using Stam based abilities ? NO they are horrible .
4 .Nope he is using a Fire Staff

Again someone who should think before posting

Reykice · June 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

The difference between a Caster DPS build, and a Stamina DPS build right now is 500 dps

So yea...please stop posting... your wrongness is physically hurting me with how wrong it is.

Read the thread title... it is about Armor types...

The DPS difference doesn`t come from the Armor, it comes from bad stamina and weapon scaling, this includes ALL the weapons, including the staff... they all scale a lot worse compared to class skills. This is why most use Class Skills + Resto staff...

Xsorus · June 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

bow damage already good. use armor decrease enchants.

If Bow damage was good . Why are people using Staff ?

Staff is higher DPS

Staff what? The basic attacks? Those scale via stamina and weapon damage so if he is using them he is using stamin

bg22 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

remove magicka discount and magicka regen from light armor , problem solved

And there will be no Healers and Sorcs.. Smart Thinking...

I highly doubt there would be no healers if they couldn't add -17 magicka per skill cost. But anyway... The post you quoted and your post are irrelevant.

Why would they do that ? What is point in having 750 armor vs 1700armor and no benefits ? Just because couple of guys are constantly whining and making whine threads.

@Malmai‌
The point would then be teamwork. You protect me, and I heal you kinda thing.

Ya know.. The way it's supposed to be.

Not, "oh, let me heal, use this spell and my ring and have the same armor as these guys wearing full plate."

The benefit is you can heal. I thought that was obvious?

You can always add -17 stamina on rings... just like you can magicka...

You make it sound like you can only do it one way....

Also, staff spells scale with WEAPON DAMAGE. Not Spell Power like Class Skills... so a caster has to decide what to use as he can`t really use both....

As for Armor... the real Heavy Armor users are the ones hitting the Hard Cap... that`s 50% mitigation compared to the 15% light armor gets, its a huge difference.
Getting Armor Soft Capped is not hard because it doesn`t really do much... the Hard Cap is where its at.

a thousand times this ^^

Healing cookie cutter build robe users who think that armr doesn't matter is such a pain I stopped doing it. Healing a tank who is in heavy armr with hard cap is a joy. So sick of people who think soft cap matters.

The difference between Hardcap on Armor and Softcap is 10% damage reduction.

You can pretty much tank this game with 5 light and 2 heavy. There is no reason to run full heavy or 5 heavy....

deacon13 · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

deacon13 wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I think the fix is fairly simple in order to let ppl play they want, rather than having 90% of your population run around in LA w/ staves:

-Increase base weapon damage (significantly)
-get rid of weapon damage soft caps
-Increase medium and heavy armor value so that they cannot be reached while wearing LA even with jewelry(which would require the raising of soft caps as well). Basically LA could reach MA armor via 2x + armor rings, and MA could reach HA via 2x + armor rings. Basically each armor type would have a difference of roughly 1200 armor rating (if wearing a full set). Which equates to a 12% damage mitigation difference per armor type.
I honestly believe that with these three changes it would solve a multitude of "balance issues".

I play 5/2 h/l s+b or bow dk tank . I do not agree. Firstly melee balance is hard as survivability is very high so increasing damage significantly can make them OP which leads to a nerf

First point : I would not think a huge increase was needed maybe 10% but not more than that

Second point : weapon dame soft cap for me is high 170 I'm one handed so I'm are 130 do t see the issue

Third point: will break our builds we rely on the passives of am and la to increase damage output through magicka etc

I believe it comes down to learning the class - I can hit 340 or so dps now with a particular rotation - single target. I burst past 750 on 3 mobs during a AoE with ultimate - 450 without. Given also the level of cc on demand available I would think any significant increase to say 450 single target would make me unstoppable ( shield bash did that in older days)

Yes, ipeople fail to realize that having more armor, more block, more stamina, reduced cost on Dodge Rolling and so on is something no magicka build has...

Also, let`s consider the best Sorc spell... Crystal Shards... it has a 420 magicka cost. With 25% reduction(light armor + passives) its 315 Magicka. The Magicka Soft cap is at 1950ish and the Regen Soft cap is 90ish..

This means that a sorcerer can cast 7 spells before going out of magicka while a melee can just keep on going.

Anyone see the problem if at any point the melee will do the same damage? This is why with the current design they can`t do that. You can ask for more armor(you already have more) and other things but you can`t expect equal damage with this system...

To make melee do the same damage they would have to make light/heavy attacks use stamina so a heavy attack would do as much damage as a spell... but you can only do 7-8 before running out of stamina. I doubt you would like that.

The Light Armor adds a 21% reduction to magicka skills... that means that they can cast 5 spells where you can cast 4.... not that big of a deal. It also adds 28% magicka regen... so while you regen 40 magicka per second they regen 52 magicka. With a spell cost of 300 it would take 30 seconds before that regen translates into an extra spell.

Again, the difference is not all that great... i don`t get why people rage about it.

There are 1.2k comments on what is wrong with NB at the top of this forum . Im glad you know sooo much .
You failed to mention that Crystal Shard STUNS the mob so a light armor could have no armor value and still have more survivability than a NB
You also failed to mention that a lot of the stam abilities have no effect on the mob like Bloodcraze doesn't work on a lot of mobs same as Sparks . Those are in the DW tree btw .
You failed to mention that Stam based abilities are the lowest damage abilities there for increasing the time of a fight and decreasing the survivability of NBs
You failed to mention that all class skills are magika based and NBs have almost no way of regening their abilities so making them use the lesser Stam based abilities .

And yet there is a popular video showing a Nighblade Soloing 4 man content in Craglorn... as i said before, its the player.

You know when they made the Veteran NPC`s have 50% extra HP and Damage? A NB made a video of how he was soloing 3 NPC`s with no problems... look that one up too.

As for regenerating resources... the NB has the BEST regeneration in the game with Siphoning Strikes. You can pretty much NEVER run out of resources when using that and the damage reduction is about 10%... the TOP Nightblades are using that skill to beat Sorcs/DK`s in damage per second....

As for Crystal Shard yes if you spam it at one NPC it stuns him... very nice when its ONE NPC... but i doubt anyone is having problems with ONE lonely NPC. Its when its 2 or 3 people have trouble and Crystal Shard won`t help you there either.

Really, what people need are guides, there are builds for every class that enable a player to solo well but most never find them.

Look up the ones mentioned above, if they are able to solo 4 man group content you should have no problems in normal PvE. At least you will know what works.

1 This is someone who does not play a NB !
2 Sipohning Strikes is Horrible with a melee build do the math !
3 If you need a guide to be told how to build your class this game has failed . remember what they advertised about the game ?
4 As for the vids you mentioned . Yeh I saw some where a NB was exploiting a ability and soloing stuff , btw that has been stoped
5 I honestly believe you are someone trying to protect his class and not fix a broken one .

Reykice · June 2014

Since then all those skills have been nerfed...

Impulse - nerfed
Talons - nerfed twice
standard - nerfed
ultimate generation - nerfed

Other DK skills - nerfed.

He can`t do that now that was the whole point.

DK`s now do the same dps as NB`s and Sorcs... i`m all for buffing Weapons and Stamina... they just need to be careful as not to buff Magicka Nb`s more.

That`s what i was saying really, the issue is with the weapons not scaling and not with the NB class or any class...

But as i also said i doubt they can make auto attacks do as much damage as actual abilities... it would not be balanced at all... but its their call not mine.

Paladin_echo1 · June 2014

And someone here Is a Sorc for a main character of whom melee attacks do not matter

,

jelliedsoup · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Since then all those skills have been nerfed...

Impulse - nerfed
Talons - nerfed twice
standard - nerfed
ultimate generation - nerfed

Other DK skills - nerfed.

He can`t do that now that was the whole point.

DK`s now do the same dps as NB`s and Sorcs... i`m all for buffing Weapons and Stamina... they just need to be careful as not to buff Magicka Nb`s more.

That`s what i was saying really, the issue is with the weapons not scaling and not with the NB class or any class...

But as i also said i doubt they can make auto attacks do as much damage as actual abilities... it would not be balanced at all... but its their call not mine.

Nerfed and still op....tells you how much zos missed the boat by.