Sinking threads that are deemed "negative"?

Reykice · June 2014

Well i agree, players are not angels either. But that is no excuse for ZENIMAX to do this. Some may tolerate it... and its their call. But you can`t at any point say its fine... its wrong and it should not happen.

Maybe other game companies do this... but i don`t know for sure... if i did i`d never pay them to silence me or another player. All i can do is make sure i take a stand against the ones i know are doing it and hope they decide its not worth it and stop.

Next thing we know they will try and negative remove posts and articles from the entire internet and try to pass a law allowing them to do so... only because it has worked well locally on their forum so they have the courage to go global.

This is why its a big problem for me... so they stop it or when my sub is over i will quit this and never look back even if its the new WOW everyone plays.

Elgarr · June 2014

Ragekniv wrote: »

There is no reasonable explanation for a developer deliberately sinking threads!

These are public forums, debate and constructive feedback should be encouraged.

If its occurring its despicable and contrary to free speech. I hope this is simply not true.

Let's get one thing straight, it ain't a dev, the people that do this aren't that important.

I wonder what those on the Swtor forums who were no longer needed put on their resumes when they were made redundant from their voluntary jobs...

SirAndy · June 2014

There is no such thing as "free speech" on an internet forum ...
;-)

Blackwidow · June 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

Would you rather they just go on a delete spree?

Would I rather get stabbed in the back or shot in the face?

Is there a third option? Like not being attacked?

Ser Lobo · June 2014

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Well i agree, players are not angels either. But that is no excuse for ZENIMAX to do this. Some may tolerate it... and its their call. But you can`t at any point say its fine... its wrong and it should not happen.

Maybe other game companies do this... but i don`t know for sure... if i did i`d never pay them to silence me or another player. All i can do is make sure i take a stand against the ones i know are doing it and hope they decide its not worth it and stop.

Next thing we know they will try and negative remove posts and articles from the entire internet and try to pass a law allowing them to do so... only because it has worked well locally on their forum so they have the courage to go global.

This is why its a big problem for me... so they stop it or when my sub is over i will quit this and never look back even if its the new WOW everyone plays.

I think you may be confused about 'legal'.

Its their legal right to remove any negative posts from these forums. These forums can be moderated however they wish. They aren't run by a third party that governs fairness or equality, like a Better Business Bureau.

The fact that they allow ANY negative feedback is something that I never understood. But it is their right.

Also, don't be fooled if you think you will ever play a game where the MMO developers don't moderate their forums. It's bad business and bad for the health of the game, simply put.

Maybe you can exist on the point that 'if you don't know, it doesn't happen'. But now you DO know. Can you really ignore that information? Can you really go somewhere else, knowing they are probably doing the exact same thing or something close (ghost deletes was the last big issue I saw), and just pretend that it's not happening?

Whatever your chosen value system, that's your own. Whether you deem it right or wrong is up to you, and I really don't judge you for your opinion.

But I can say it's fine, and I can deal with it, and sadly, I can even agree that it should happen. I'd even go so far as to say moderation should be more strict.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Would you rather they just go on a delete spree?

Would I rather get stabbed in the back or shot in the face?

Is there a third option? Like not being attacked?

As you and I both know, that third option is not come to the forums at all.

Blackwidow · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Would you rather they just go on a delete spree?

Would I rather get stabbed in the back or shot in the face?

Is there a third option? Like not being attacked?

As you and I both know, that third option is not come to the forums at all.

Like that's an option.

Phantorang · June 2014

Nice

Selique · June 2014

You're playing in ZoS's yard. If they don't want you in the flowers, they'll make sure you stay out of them.

It isn't sleazy or low. It isn't even that bad. There are a million other things in this world to worry about rather than whether a post (The content of which has nothing to add to these forums, and may even detract from them.) was sunk.

Business wise, I can't blame them. I'd do the same thing. Not to mention I'm sick of such posts anyway.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Selique wrote: »

You're playing in ZoS's yard. If they don't want you in the flowers, they'll make sure you stay out of them.

It isn't sleazy or low. It isn't even that bad. There are a million other things in this world to worry about rather than whether a post (The content of which has nothing to add to these forums, and may even detract from them.) was sunk.

Business wise, I can't blame them. I'd do the same thing. Not to mention I'm sick of such posts anyway.

I literally cannot hit the agree button enough times.

Blackwidow wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Would you rather they just go on a delete spree?

Would I rather get stabbed in the back or shot in the face?

Is there a third option? Like not being attacked?

As you and I both know, that third option is not come to the forums at all.

Like that's an option.

Really, it's not. It's like an addiction. You know it's bad for you, yet you keep coming back.

I really do hate MMO forums. And I probably spend more time on them then in the games themselves.

Blackwidow · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Really, it's not. It's like an addiction. You know it's bad for you, yet you keep coming back.

I really do hate MMO forums. And I probably spend more time on them then in the games themselves.

Well, knowing what game it is, I can't blame you.

Goibot · June 2014

This should not surprise you at all. I mean come on we are talking about ZOS. They also bring us features like a full charge (or excuse me HOLD) on our credit card to access the 30 days we already paid for. And that is to say nothing about stealth nerfs!

When you deal with this company watch your back (and your wallet).

Ohioastro · June 2014

So, presumably, if someone wants to open a post every thirty seconds saying "ESO is ^&**(" then it's terrible, no good, very bad censorship to weed those posts out. If they set up a bot to spam every message thread with the same text every second then blocking them is "censorship." Because free speech is totally absolute, right? If someone wants to fill the front page with me me me me stuff - it has no impact on anyone else, right? So, by the same token, it's A-OK to walk into a public talk with a bullhorn chanting - because your right to free speech is so terribly important?

It's childish enough that posters, including some in this thread, feel compelled to write hundreds of posts about how much they hate this game. Without any moderation the forums go to whomever posts the most times, regardless of content.

Gokmak · June 2014

Ragekniv wrote: »

If its occurring its despicable and contrary to free speech.

Free speech LOL no such thing anymore... it died along with morality, honesty, integrity, independence, etc. Been replaced with treachery, slander, deceit, treason, the list goes on...

Ser Lobo · June 2014

I do believe that any moderation of speech means that it's not free, at all. Doesn't mean if it's moderating only the idiots and unmindful.

I don't believe that a company, on company sponsored and controlled forums, has any requirement to guarantee free speech.

Now, if they are suing over amazon reviews or BBB reports? That is where I draw the line. On their turf, their rules. Step off their turf, and too bad.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Gokmak wrote: »

Ragekniv wrote: »

If its occurring its despicable and contrary to free speech.

Free speech LOL no such thing anymore... it died along with morality, honesty, integrity, independence, etc. Been replaced with treachery, slander, deceit, treason, the list goes on...

Sadly, free speech died with the ability to insult others or hurt their feelings.

You couldn't take the right to talk away from someone, but once you started believing that people could be hurt by words, you could take away their right to say what they want.

snagallnub18_ESO · June 2014

lol sinking threads... what [snip]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Vorkk8383 · June 2014

It's pretty sad. I get them deleting some threads because some people go WAY overboard and quit threads are negative blah blah blah. When you have no reason to cancel the thread but don't like it and stop it from hitting the front page because it doesn't suit your agenda, it's pretty sad. If you don't want threads that you don't like (and let's face it-you likely do not like most threads on here) get to fixing your game. We paid for a full product and we got an MMO that likely needed 1 more year to even be ready to hit the shelves.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

It's pretty sad. I get them deleting some threads because some people go WAY overboard and quit threads are negative blah blah blah. When you have no reason to cancel the thread but don't like it and stop it from hitting the front page because it doesn't suit your agenda, it's pretty sad. If you don't want threads that you don't like (and let's face it-you likely do not like most threads on here) get to fixing your game. We paid for a full product and we got an MMO that likely needed 1 more year to even be ready to hit the shelves.

What if fixing didn't help? What if, by next year this time, with another full year of development, the content still isn't complete? What if players are still unhappy, because the game doesn't have (insert wanted feature)?

If they *really* didn't want the threads, they wouldn't even open the forum at all. But they are a business, and having no forum in which to let players vent in a semi-controlled atmosphere has spelled doom for more than one game out there.

So at this point, they walk that thin line of letting players vent, keeping negative posts out of the spotlight (so that even happy players don't get discouraged), and doing so in a moderated environment they control.

Not so sad, by my book. Except that they have to go through such steps due to the tendency of players to be so hateful. That's kinda sad.

Vorkk8383 · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

It's pretty sad. I get them deleting some threads because some people go WAY overboard and quit threads are negative blah blah blah. When you have no reason to cancel the thread but don't like it and stop it from hitting the front page because it doesn't suit your agenda, it's pretty sad. If you don't want threads that you don't like (and let's face it-you likely do not like most threads on here) get to fixing your game. We paid for a full product and we got an MMO that likely needed 1 more year to even be ready to hit the shelves.

What if fixing didn't help? What if, by next year this time, with another full year of development, the content still isn't complete? What if players are still unhappy, because the game doesn't have (insert wanted feature)?

If they *really* didn't want the threads, they wouldn't even open the forum at all. But they are a business, and having no forum in which to let players vent in a semi-controlled atmosphere has spelled doom for more than one game out there.

So at this point, they walk that thin line of letting players vent, keeping negative posts out of the spotlight (so that even happy players don't get discouraged), and doing so in a moderated environment they control.

Not so sad, by my book. Except that they have to go through such steps due to the tendency of players to be so hateful. That's kinda sad.

From what I've experienced in every forum, it's either acceptable or it's not. Delete if it breaks your EULA or let it be. Being in between is pretty much like deciding that something is a law but only sometimes, yet you don't tell the citizens.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

It's pretty sad. I get them deleting some threads because some people go WAY overboard and quit threads are negative blah blah blah. When you have no reason to cancel the thread but don't like it and stop it from hitting the front page because it doesn't suit your agenda, it's pretty sad. If you don't want threads that you don't like (and let's face it-you likely do not like most threads on here) get to fixing your game. We paid for a full product and we got an MMO that likely needed 1 more year to even be ready to hit the shelves.

What if fixing didn't help? What if, by next year this time, with another full year of development, the content still isn't complete? What if players are still unhappy, because the game doesn't have (insert wanted feature)?

If they *really* didn't want the threads, they wouldn't even open the forum at all. But they are a business, and having no forum in which to let players vent in a semi-controlled atmosphere has spelled doom for more than one game out there.

So at this point, they walk that thin line of letting players vent, keeping negative posts out of the spotlight (so that even happy players don't get discouraged), and doing so in a moderated environment they control.

Not so sad, by my book. Except that they have to go through such steps due to the tendency of players to be so hateful. That's kinda sad.

From what I've experienced in every forum, it's either acceptable or it's not. Delete if it breaks your EULA or let it be. Being in between is pretty much like deciding that something is a law but only sometimes, yet you don't tell the citizens.

That's actually a pretty fair point. I still feel that public relations is many shades of grey, balancing between allowing conversation and discussion and discouraging negativity and commiseration.

But I do see your point. I don't think comparing it to law (and even law is considered a matter of interpretation, something which gripes on many black-and-white types) is the best comparison to make.

Nazon_Katts · June 2014

Which is why they should be strict but open. Sinking threads doesn't teach anyone the limits, just makes them questionable and attackable.

Vorkk8383 · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

It's pretty sad. I get them deleting some threads because some people go WAY overboard and quit threads are negative blah blah blah. When you have no reason to cancel the thread but don't like it and stop it from hitting the front page because it doesn't suit your agenda, it's pretty sad. If you don't want threads that you don't like (and let's face it-you likely do not like most threads on here) get to fixing your game. We paid for a full product and we got an MMO that likely needed 1 more year to even be ready to hit the shelves.

What if fixing didn't help? What if, by next year this time, with another full year of development, the content still isn't complete? What if players are still unhappy, because the game doesn't have (insert wanted feature)?

If they *really* didn't want the threads, they wouldn't even open the forum at all. But they are a business, and having no forum in which to let players vent in a semi-controlled atmosphere has spelled doom for more than one game out there.

So at this point, they walk that thin line of letting players vent, keeping negative posts out of the spotlight (so that even happy players don't get discouraged), and doing so in a moderated environment they control.

Not so sad, by my book. Except that they have to go through such steps due to the tendency of players to be so hateful. That's kinda sad.

From what I've experienced in every forum, it's either acceptable or it's not. Delete if it breaks your EULA or let it be. Being in between is pretty much like deciding that something is a law but only sometimes, yet you don't tell the citizens.

That's actually a pretty fair point. I still feel that public relations is many shades of grey, balancing between allowing conversation and discussion and discouraging negativity and commiseration.

But I do see your point. I don't think comparing it to law (and even law is considered a matter of interpretation, something which gripes on many black-and-white types) is the best comparison to make.

I agree that the law may not have been the best example as it is very open...depending on many things. I guess that in the end, it's their forums and they can do what they want with it but it's also people's money and they will do what they want with it as well. Sometimes, very small decisions can make a bigger impact than expected. Not saying this will but I'm willing to bet that at least 1 person will cancel over this. And some people say good riddance but I say ''less people=bad''. Less bots=good but less real people is never good. We need players in MMO's.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »

It's pretty sad. I get them deleting some threads because some people go WAY overboard and quit threads are negative blah blah blah. When you have no reason to cancel the thread but don't like it and stop it from hitting the front page because it doesn't suit your agenda, it's pretty sad. If you don't want threads that you don't like (and let's face it-you likely do not like most threads on here) get to fixing your game. We paid for a full product and we got an MMO that likely needed 1 more year to even be ready to hit the shelves.

What if fixing didn't help? What if, by next year this time, with another full year of development, the content still isn't complete? What if players are still unhappy, because the game doesn't have (insert wanted feature)?

If they *really* didn't want the threads, they wouldn't even open the forum at all. But they are a business, and having no forum in which to let players vent in a semi-controlled atmosphere has spelled doom for more than one game out there.

So at this point, they walk that thin line of letting players vent, keeping negative posts out of the spotlight (so that even happy players don't get discouraged), and doing so in a moderated environment they control.

Not so sad, by my book. Except that they have to go through such steps due to the tendency of players to be so hateful. That's kinda sad.

From what I've experienced in every forum, it's either acceptable or it's not. Delete if it breaks your EULA or let it be. Being in between is pretty much like deciding that something is a law but only sometimes, yet you don't tell the citizens.

That's actually a pretty fair point. I still feel that public relations is many shades of grey, balancing between allowing conversation and discussion and discouraging negativity and commiseration.

But I do see your point. I don't think comparing it to law (and even law is considered a matter of interpretation, something which gripes on many black-and-white types) is the best comparison to make.

I agree that the law may not have been the best example as it is very open...depending on many things. I guess that in the end, it's their forums and they can do what they want with it but it's also people's money and they will do what they want with it as well. Sometimes, very small decisions can make a bigger impact than expected. Not saying this will but I'm willing to bet that at least 1 person will cancel over this. And some people say good riddance but I say ''less people=bad''. Less bots=good but less real people is never good. We need players in MMO's.

Agreed.

Though if you think about it, less bots sometimes is bad, too. Especially if ESO was getting money from those bots for account operation, etc.

Ohioastro · June 2014

The specific thread in question was attacking ESO and promoting Wildstar. Are companies obligated to promote other companies on their web sites?

Blackwidow · June 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

The specific thread in question was attacking ESO and promoting Wildstar. Are companies obligated to promote other companies on their web sites?

I think if they are confident they should not be afraid of the comparison.

Genada · June 2014

If they do not want a discussion on something, they should explain so and close the thread. Sinking it is dishonest.

Arsenic_Touch · June 2014

Its amusing that people in this thread think the developers have anything to do with this forum or that freedom of speech means jack on a private forum.

MaxBat · June 2014

There is no "free speech" right on a commercial website or forum. The United States Supreme Court - where Zenimax is located - has made that abundantly clear. Moreover, commercial speech - a category into which many of the posts in this forum would fall - is not entitled to First Amendment protections - again, per the United States Supreme Court.

But while Zeni may be within their legal rights, this is going to be viewed by many of their customers - including me - as morally wrong. Sinking threads without even telling your forum users is, frankly, the worst kind of public relations.

Which is why I'm inclined to report this to Paul Tassi at Forbes or someone else. The only way to fight this behavior is to drag it out into the light.

Ohioastro · June 2014

So - when someone writes "play wildstar, not eso - here is my slanted poll" - and the company reacts, on a company forum - then it's a first amendment crisis? That's touching, but not compelling.