Sinking threads that are deemed "negative"?

MaxBat

Ohioastro wrote: »

So - when someone writes "play wildstar, not eso - here is my slanted poll" - and the company reacts, on a company forum - then it's a first amendment crisis? That's touching, but not compelling.

Hmmm ... I'm not sure who you're responding to - surely not me since my post clearly points out there is no First Amendment protection and ergo no crisis.

Please read more carefully.

EQBallzz

No I think he was referring to me but again..I never said to play Wildstar. I don't like Wildstar. The poll was to determine if other people are seeing the same thing I am but hey..read into things whatever you want. Reading comprehension FTL.

magickats242cub18_ESO

Well, judging by the way this thread is still on the front page of the forum, your theory is not really panning out as well as you might've thought.

Just sayin', you know?

Loco_Mofo

Myth busted?

Nazon_Katts

Thread sinking is a fact. Why they're sunk is a myth, tho. Some of those threads were controversial, others outright against the rules and some just very long running. All could have been just closed with a clear message, but were silently sunk instead.

Leesha

JinShepard01 wrote: »

It's sad that they do it, it is in my opinion another clear sign the game isn't doing great.

It is nothing more than a clear sign that people can't be mature and discuss things in a civil manner. These threads always derail down to an argument between those who like the game and those who are unhappy with it.

Maybe if people could just act more like adults and keep things on topic and polite, this kind of thing would not be necessary.

MaxBat

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Thread sinking is a fact. Why they're sunk is a myth, tho. Some of those threads were controversial, others outright against the rules and some just very long running. All could have been just closed with a clear message, but were silently sunk instead.

Which I suppose is my biggest complaint against thread sinking, in any context.

Forums are public interaction. They invite speech and discussion. But because they're public, they will invite discussion that is neither productive nor welcome by anyone. Hate speech and racial slurs are two obvious examples of this type of behavior.

To control the forum, there are guidelines. Users are required to read and follow them. No forum user in the internets today can seriously be "unfamiliar" with this process of control. Good so far?

Then someone posts something the company doesn't like. What does it do? It can update or amend the forum guidelines to prevent this type of behavior. But what if the message isn't really wrong, just ... discomforting? In that case, the company can remove the message in a subtle or not so subtle way. This can be viewed as the company "protecting" itself.

Some company forums simply close threads or delete posts that compare their games to competitors games on the basis that it's simply not within the scope of their forums. These forums are about their games and not someone else's games. I believe Paradox forums has a rule like this. No arguing because it's right there, in the rules.

But companies can manage this without making more rules. I don't know if anyone remembers this: Years ago, on the Bethesda forums (around the time Oblivion was released), there was a bit of forum code that triggered whenever someone typed a post with the words: "This game sucks." When they saved their post, the words would appear as: "This game is awesome!" (or something like that.) It was funny, it was obvious - and it got the point across.

I believe a more appropriate action - assuming the thread was a comparison to Wildstar - would have been for a moderator to simply say: "We're thrilled you're enjoying your Wildstar experience. We invite you to discuss that experience on their forums." Locked and done. Clear, obvious - and no hidden agenda.

The problem with thread sinking is the potential for abuse on a forum that supposed invites critical discussion. It's just ... wrong.

GreySix

Just posted in the linked thread, and can see the point of the OP.

It's an interesting tool for burying unwanted discussion.

Zenzu

I hope they continue to sink your pointless threads.

rootimus

Blackwidow wrote: »

Now we know why the bugs are not getting fixed. They are too busy pulling this crap.

I too employ codemonkeys to moderate my forum. The coding gets left to my gardener.

magickats242cub18_ESO

They sure don't seem to have problems with this thread. Still on the front page.

SirAndy

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well, judging by the way this thread is still on the front page of the forum, your theory is not really panning out as well as you might've thought.

Just sayin', you know?

@magickats242cub18_ESO
You do realize he's talking about the other thread linked in one of the initial posts, right?
;-)

magickats242cub18_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well, judging by the way this thread is still on the front page of the forum, your theory is not really panning out as well as you might've thought.

Just sayin', you know?

@magickats242cub18_ESO
You do realize he's talking about the other thread linked in one of the initial posts, right?
;-)

Yes, I know what he is talking about, but by his logic, this thread should also fall into the "negative" zone, and thus end up getting sunk into Oblivion. My guess there is a forum algorithm that prevents anything with certain words (in his other thread's case the word would be Wildstar) and not let the thread advance back to the top of the forum page.

I am just saying, not all "negative" threads will sink as the OP is assuming.

EQBallzz

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well, judging by the way this thread is still on the front page of the forum, your theory is not really panning out as well as you might've thought.

Just sayin', you know?

@magickats242cub18_ESO
You do realize he's talking about the other thread linked in one of the initial posts, right?
;-)

Yes, I know what he is talking about, but by his logic, this thread should also fall into the "negative" zone, and thus end up getting sunk into Oblivion. My guess there is a forum algorithm that prevents anything with certain words (in his other thread's case the word would be Wildstar) and not let the thread advance back to the top of the forum page.

I am just saying, not all "negative" threads will sink as the OP is assuming.

Yeah I don't get it, either tbh. I didn't see my original thread as being explicitly negative and I put negative in quotes because that was only an assumption. There are far more negative things being posted here than that and they aren't getting that treatment.

magickats242cub18_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well, judging by the way this thread is still on the front page of the forum, your theory is not really panning out as well as you might've thought.

Just sayin', you know?

@magickats242cub18_ESO
You do realize he's talking about the other thread linked in one of the initial posts, right?
;-)

Yes, I know what he is talking about, but by his logic, this thread should also fall into the "negative" zone, and thus end up getting sunk into Oblivion. My guess there is a forum algorithm that prevents anything with certain words (in his other thread's case the word would be Wildstar) and not let the thread advance back to the top of the forum page.

I am just saying, not all "negative" threads will sink as the OP is assuming.

Yeah I don't get it, either tbh. I didn't see my original thread as being explicitly negative and I put negative in quotes because that was only an assumption. There are far more negative things being posted here than that and they aren't getting that treatment.

I am curious, if you were to start a new poll, instead of using an MMO, instead say something like, "Guild members moving on to other activities" and see if that gets lost. Worth a try.

KitLightning

Sakiri wrote: »

Would you rather they just go on a delete spree?

They've deleted post at a constant pace since forever. You'll be lucky if you get a massage from the person whom deleted the post.

AlexDougherty

Elgarr wrote: »

Ragekniv wrote: »

There is no reasonable explanation for a developer deliberately sinking threads!

These are public forums, debate and constructive feedback should be encouraged.

If its occurring its despicable and contrary to free speech. I hope this is simply not true.

Let's get one thing straight, it ain't a dev, the people that do this aren't that important.

I wonder what those on the Swtor forums who were no longer needed put on their resumes when they were made redundant from their voluntary jobs...

Probably that they were part of a forum management team, which isn't actually lying, they helped manage the forums.

AlexDougherty

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

The fact that they allow ANY negative feedback is something that I never understood. But it is their right.

Nothing stinks of corruption more than a forum with no negative comments. I would never argue that they don't have the right to control their forums as they see fit. Just that they should be more open about it.

eduardo_goncalveseb17_ESO

Valn wrote: »

is this true?

lol yup. First time in like 25 years of online gaming that i see a company doing this lol.. thats sad..

AlexDougherty

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I do believe that any moderation of speech means that it's not free, at all.

This is an absolutism arguement, where you ignore the middle ground. There are degrees of moderation/censureship which create degrees of freespeech.

I don't want to post in a forum where people can post literally anything, because I've seen some of the twisted distorted crap some people believe in. No, some moderation is required.

Laura

I had a huge thread discussing issues with the game that didn't get sunk or removed.

Difference? I did it with respect like a normal human being instead of a ravenous child hopped up on energy drinks.

Mine was literally about the same thing.

AlexDougherty

Laura wrote: »

I had a huge thread discussing issues with the game that didn't get sunk or removed.

Difference? I did it with respect like a normal human being instead of a ravenous child hopped up on energy drinks.

Mine was literally about the same thing.

I agree that the OP wasn't done right, which lead to some badly stated comments. But I didn't see your thread, sorry.

The OP was clearly angry about this, which is understandable, but lead to some badly considered posts. Not necessarily wrong for the most part, but incorrectly phrased.

Setting the tone for the initial pages of a thread is an important aspect of an OP, although everybody has a different style, and of course different opinion about what's important.

EQBallzz

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I had a huge thread discussing issues with the game that didn't get sunk or removed.

Difference? I did it with respect like a normal human being instead of a ravenous child hopped up on energy drinks.

Mine was literally about the same thing.

I agree that the OP wasn't done right, which lead to some badly stated comments. But I didn't see your thread, sorry.

The OP was clearly angry about this, which is understandable, but lead to some badly considered posts. Not necessarily wrong for the most part, but incorrectly phrased.

Setting the tone for the initial pages of a thread is an important aspect of an OP, although everybody has a different style, and of course different opinion about what's important.

OK, let me get this straight..you made a post like mine but with "respect"? You mean like implying that I am a "ravenous child hopped up on energy drinks"? Respect like that? Yeah, I see your maturity and respect shining through. I was angry? At what point did you determine there was anger? Was it when I said I didn't think that game was better but perhaps more polished? Yeah, that sounds super angry..

It was a simple, honest question. I made a point to say that I was not advocating for the other game and that I didn't even like it but that I was seeing a noticeable amount of people that had recently been interested in this game..moving to that game and was "curious" if others were experiencing the same thing. I never once made a negative comment about this game or bashed it in any way.

HTF is that ravenous or child-like in any way? I think some of you didn't even read the damn thread and ironically start bashing me for the tone or style of my post.

Valn

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

magickats242cub18_ESO wrote: »

Well, judging by the way this thread is still on the front page of the forum, your theory is not really panning out as well as you might've thought.

Just sayin', you know?

@magickats242cub18_ESO
You do realize he's talking about the other thread linked in one of the initial posts, right?
;-)

Yes, I know what he is talking about, but by his logic, this thread should also fall into the "negative" zone, and thus end up getting sunk into Oblivion. My guess there is a forum algorithm that prevents anything with certain words (in his other thread's case the word would be Wildstar) and not let the thread advance back to the top of the forum page.

I am just saying, not all "negative" threads will sink as the OP is assuming.

damn you wanna kiss the mods asses while youre at it as well?

if they sink this thread people are gonna get more annoyed at them. thats why its still up. Or maybe its the weekend

AlexDougherty

EQBallzz wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

I had a huge thread discussing issues with the game that didn't get sunk or removed.

Difference? I did it with respect like a normal human being instead of a ravenous child hopped up on energy drinks.

Mine was literally about the same thing.

I agree that the OP wasn't done right, which lead to some badly stated comments. But I didn't see your thread, sorry.

The OP was clearly angry about this, which is understandable, but lead to some badly considered posts. Not necessarily wrong for the most part, but incorrectly phrased.

Setting the tone for the initial pages of a thread is an important aspect of an OP, although everybody has a different style, and of course different opinion about what's important.

OK, let me get this straight..you made a post like mine but with "respect"? You mean like implying that I am a "ravenous child hopped up on energy drinks"? Respect like that? Yeah, I see your maturity and respect shining through. I was angry? At what point did you determine there was anger? Was it when I said I didn't think that game was better but perhaps more polished? Yeah, that sounds super angry..

It was a simple, honest question. I made a point to say that I was not advocating for the other game and that I didn't even like it but that I was seeing a noticeable amount of people that had recently been interested in this game..moving to that game and was "curious" if others were experiencing the same thing. I never once made a negative comment about this game or bashed it in any way.

HTF is that ravenous or child-like in any way? I think some of you didn't even read the damn thread and ironically start bashing me for the tone or style of my post.

Ok, maybe angry was a strong word, but you started the second sentence with "Oh seriously" and "That's pathetic", that's angry phrasing to me.

Also to be clear, I never said you were a child, or anything like that, that was someone else (not naming names even if it is in the quote). My entire point was you got the tone wrong, nothing else. As I said, everyone has a different style, that's all.

Phantax

OP you are not the only one...lol
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99511/forum-posts-not-updating-or-being-sunk-on-purpose#latest

Ser Lobo

AlexDougherty wrote: »

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I do believe that any moderation of speech means that it's not free, at all.

This is an absolutism arguement, where you ignore the middle ground. There are degrees of moderation/censureship which create degrees of freespeech.

I don't want to post in a forum where people can post literally anything, because I've seen some of the twisted distorted crap some people believe in. No, some moderation is required.

When you take on any form of moderation, it removes the ability to say what you want. Simple logic.

I'm not arguing that people can and will be stupid, annoying, insulting or just off topic. Simply that this is our right to be in an open forum (which this is not).

Free speech was lost when we realized people could be hurt by words. Once we as people accepted that, there hasn't really been any ability to truly express yourself freely left. Every person's right to speak seems to impinge on someone else's freedom to not be harmed, which is one of the unnamed freedoms.

We often label it as political correctness.

DireKit

Even IF Zenimax is sinking your posts, which you have no concrete evidence of (it could be another function built into the forums, as mentioned by others), you have no place to complain.

These forums aren't your precious America. They're not Government controlled ground. They're controlled by Zenimax.

The majority of conversations on the forums are not civil, nor are they conducive. They've been largely overtly negative and We've already gone over why exactly the previous post from this user was tactless and overtly negative.

IF Zenimax is sinking your posts, you really shouldn't be surprised. If you give them a reason to need to moderate your prattle, you've probably gone too far and crossed the line from respectful criticism and objective commentary to disrespectful negativity and drama-mongering.

Which is what a large part of these forums are.

Amusing as it is for us to see, We imagine the majority of their Customer Base who actually like the game finds these forums to be unbelievably vitriolic and corrosive.

Phantax

DireKit wrote: »

Even IF Zenimax is sinking your posts, which you have no concrete evidence of (it could be another function built into the forums, as mentioned by others), you have no place to complain.

NO concrete evidence? Really are you serious? Try adding a post to a thread only to see it not move a single place upwards ! That's not evidence... that's a fact ! ! !

Pele

Ohioastro wrote: »

The specific thread in question was attacking ESO and promoting Wildstar. Are companies obligated to promote other companies on their web sites?

Indeed.

How can anyone say with a straight face that Zenimax silences negative threads and posts? One need only read a few posts on the front page of nearly every forum and subforum to see evidence that it does not.