IS stealth broken?

Beedles · June 2014

how is it mage light does not see stealth now til they are right on top of you ? also how are NB going stealth every 1-2 sec and hitting you but then stealth right out of combat they can do this forever? since this patch it seems to me stealth is way broken. anyone know why or how this is happening

Gisgo · June 2014

Can anyone confirm magelight is broken?
*sharpens blades*

dragnier · June 2014

Magelight is not broken as far as I've been able to tell. It just doesn't show invisible targets (even the morph that is supposed to which is a known bug).

Crouch stealth is different from invisibility stealth.

NB has a class skill that is invisibility but it doesn't give the stealth hit bonus, just the stun. Other classes can use invisibility potions.

However, I have noticed that you can crouch stealth somewhat closer than you used to be able to... maybe this is what is going on. Many NB use crouch + invis to get close enough to hit you because nothing currently detects invis as it should.

FunkyBudda · June 2014

dragnier wrote: »

Magelight is not broken as far as I've been able to tell. It just doesn't show invisible targets (even the morph that is supposed to which is a known bug).

Crouch stealth is different from invisibility stealth.

NB has a class skill that is invisibility but it doesn't give the stealth hit bonus, just the stun. Other classes can use invisibility potions.

However, I have noticed that you can crouch stealth somewhat closer than you used to be able to... maybe this is what is going on. Many NB use crouch + invis to get close enough to hit you because nothing currently detects invis as it should.

with other class defining skills being nerfed to the ground, I think stealth for NB should be nerfed.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

FunkyBudda wrote: »

dragnier wrote: »

Magelight is not broken as far as I've been able to tell. It just doesn't show invisible targets (even the morph that is supposed to which is a known bug).

Crouch stealth is different from invisibility stealth.

NB has a class skill that is invisibility but it doesn't give the stealth hit bonus, just the stun. Other classes can use invisibility potions.

However, I have noticed that you can crouch stealth somewhat closer than you used to be able to... maybe this is what is going on. Many NB use crouch + invis to get close enough to hit you because nothing currently detects invis as it should.

with other class defining skills being nerfed to the ground, I think stealth for NB should be nerfed.

Uhh.. you're kidding right? because 2.5 seconds of invisibility is to much to handle?

kitsinni · June 2014

How does magelight work with skills that improve your sneak? There are passives in racials, armor and armor sets that allow you to decrease your detection area I wonder how they conteract magelight.

I'm guessing you had a nightblade see you had on magelight and pop cloak right before getting in the range for you to detect them.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

How does magelight work with skills that improve your sneak? There are passives in racials, armor and armor sets that allow you to decrease your detection area I wonder how they conteract magelight.

I'm guessing you had a nightblade see you had on magelight and pop cloak right before getting in the range for you to detect them.

That's what I am thinking. That or they simply spotted them first and reacted quickly.

dragnier · June 2014

FunkyBudda wrote: »

dragnier wrote: »

Magelight is not broken as far as I've been able to tell. It just doesn't show invisible targets (even the morph that is supposed to which is a known bug).

Crouch stealth is different from invisibility stealth.

NB has a class skill that is invisibility but it doesn't give the stealth hit bonus, just the stun. Other classes can use invisibility potions.

However, I have noticed that you can crouch stealth somewhat closer than you used to be able to... maybe this is what is going on. Many NB use crouch + invis to get close enough to hit you because nothing currently detects invis as it should.

with other class defining skills being nerfed to the ground, I think stealth for NB should be nerfed.

Nice try.

Stealth for NB is a joke already. Our invis lasts at most 2.9 seconds and does nothing other than offer the chance to stun the target (+ crit % or remove one DoT depending on morph) or get away if we can find something like a tree to line of sight. The only other bonuses we get for stealth are the Master Assassin passive which gives 5% bonus weapon damage and increased stun duration from stealth and Shadow Barrier which gives us +Armor and +Spell resist for 4 sec after coming out of stealth or invis.

Of those bonuses, the only useful one is Master Assassin and it is still kind of meh unless you are constantly using invis which costs a crap ton of magicka. I suppose the increased armor and spell resist help, but again they only apply for 4 seconds so you have to spam cast invis. Honestly, a NB with alchemy to increase the duration of the invis potions would be better off using those and saving the magicka for attacks, because our passives only require that we have one assassin ability and one shadow ability on out bar to work.

If anything should be done about this, it would be to fix the things that are supposed to detect invis instead of nerfing it... though I have see people abuse invis potions a lot. Not as often as other things, but I have seen it. If you ever seen anyone who isn't a NB disappear mid fight, it is either an invis potion or a vamp with Bat Swarm morphed to Clouding Swarm.

I also forgot to mention that Vamp characters can enter crouch stealth more quickly at night if they've leveled Vamp up to max.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

dragnier wrote: »

FunkyBudda wrote: »

dragnier wrote: »

Magelight is not broken as far as I've been able to tell. It just doesn't show invisible targets (even the morph that is supposed to which is a known bug).

Crouch stealth is different from invisibility stealth.

NB has a class skill that is invisibility but it doesn't give the stealth hit bonus, just the stun. Other classes can use invisibility potions.

However, I have noticed that you can crouch stealth somewhat closer than you used to be able to... maybe this is what is going on. Many NB use crouch + invis to get close enough to hit you because nothing currently detects invis as it should.

with other class defining skills being nerfed to the ground, I think stealth for NB should be nerfed.

Nice try.

Stealth for NB is a joke already. Our invis lasts at most 2.9 seconds and does nothing other than offer the chance to stun the target (+ crit % or remove one DoT depending on morph) or get away if we can find something like a tree to line of sight. The only other bonuses we get for stealth are the Master Assassin passive which gives 5% bonus weapon damage and increased stun duration from stealth and Shadow Barrier which gives us +Armor and +Spell resist for 4 sec after coming out of stealth or invis.

Of those bonuses, the only useful one is Master Assassin and it is still kind of meh unless you are constantly using invis which costs a crap ton of magicka. I suppose the increased armor and spell resist help, but again they only apply for 4 seconds so you have to spam cast invis. Honestly, a NB with alchemy to increase the duration of the invis potions would be better off using those and saving the magicka for attacks, because our passives only require that we have one assassin ability and one shadow ability on out bar to work.

If anything should be done about this, it would be to fix the things that are supposed to detect invis instead of nerfing it... though I have see people abuse invis potions a lot. Not as often as other things, but I have seen it. If you ever seen anyone who isn't a NB disappear mid fight, it is either an invis potion or a vamp with Bat Swarm morphed to Clouding Swarm.

I also forgot to mention that Vamp characters can enter crouch stealth more quickly at night if they've leveled Vamp up to max.

Do you happen to know the cool down of Inviz pots? Was curious

dragnier · June 2014

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Do you happen to know the cool down of Inviz pots? Was curious

No, but I would guess the same as other ones.. so weaving the NB invis and the invis pots would probably be more advisable. You'd still save magicka, just not as much. And if you are also a Vamp you could weave the Ulti in there too to save even more magicka.

Beedles · June 2014

I HOPE they do fix this NB being able to run from every fight with no consequences is wrong. They can hit 1-3 times from stealth AFTER they mark you (which they can do from stealth and not be taking out of) and just invis rinse and repeat , one on one you have no chance against this. There also has to be some counter to this invis . maybe a potion as it stands right now you only see ANY stealth when they are standing almost on top of you

ShedsHisTail · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

how is it mage light does not see stealth now til they are right on top of you ?

What are they opening with?
I ask because if they're hitting you first with Teleport Strike or either of it's Morphs (Ambush/Lotus Fan), they're actually striking from a pretty good distance away and teleporting to you.

They're still attacking from stealth, but likely from well outside Magelight's detection radius.

Liquid_Time · June 2014

dragnier wrote: »

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Do you happen to know the cool down of Inviz pots? Was curious

No, but I would guess the same as other ones.. so weaving the NB invis and the invis pots would probably be more advisable. You'd still save magicka, just not as much. And if you are also a Vamp you could weave the Ulti in there too to save even more magicka.

That's what I was thinking. Has me thinking now... I rarely need to use potions besides Health to survive some 1v2's. Might invest in a few and try some combinations. ^^

Liquid_Time · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

I HOPE they do fix this NB being able to run from every fight with no consequences is wrong. They can hit 1-3 times from stealth AFTER they mark you (which they can do from stealth and not be taking out of) and just invis rinse and repeat , one on one you have no chance against this. There also has to be some counter to this invis . maybe a potion as it stands right now you only see ANY stealth when they are standing almost on top of you

When you roll a NB you will relies that is what most of the melee builds have to do in order to get 1v1 kills.

kitsinni · June 2014

Beedles wrote: »

I HOPE they do fix this NB being able to run from every fight with no consequences is wrong. They can hit 1-3 times from stealth AFTER they mark you (which they can do from stealth and not be taking out of) and just invis rinse and repeat , one on one you have no chance against this. There also has to be some counter to this invis . maybe a potion as it stands right now you only see ANY stealth when they are standing almost on top of you

Have you ever played a NB or tried to use this skill because it is in no way an ability that lets us run from every fight with no consequences? Actually most of the time it doesn't even work at all and the times it does you can get 2.9 seconds away from them at most if they don't spam an aoe or dot you first. Even the one that is supposed to cure dots doesn't most of the time.

Also there are potions that allow you to see invisibility.

Zenzu · June 2014

Magelight confirmed working for me. NB classes exposed by it immediately after invisibility.

Also aoe/mark target/dots still removing stealth 100% of time.

Invisibility does seem broken though, Sorcerer pets seem to see right through it.

If you having difficult with stealther get one of the following:

A: AoE anything. Stealth isn't teleport, you cast where they go invis, they no longer have invisible.

B:Magelight, confirmed working, range is 14m. Take your 28m abilities distance from non-cyrodiil, half it, that is magelight range. I always use magelight and I've never once not detected stealther.

C: Use a bleed/dot, NB morph "Dark Cloak" removes dots, but is currently bugged and doesn't remove all dots. For other invisibility options any DOT is a direct counter.

All of these are class non-specific. Zenimax understands invisibility is by default extremely potent in other games, so they introduced many direct counters to keep it in check. I think it is a design philosophy they have made consistent throughout.

Beedles · June 2014

Zenzu wrote: »

Magelight confirmed working for me. NB classes exposed by it immediately after invisibility.

Also aoe/mark target/dots still removing stealth 100% of time.

Invisibility does seem broken though, Sorcerer pets seem to see right through it.

If you having difficult with stealther get one of the following:

A: AoE anything. Stealth isn't teleport, you cast where they go invis, they no longer have invisible.

B:Magelight, confirmed working, range is 14m. Take your 28m abilities distance from non-cyrodiil, half it, that is magelight range. I always use magelight and I've never once not detected stealther.

C: Use a bleed/dot, NB morph "Dark Cloak" removes dots, but is currently bugged and doesn't remove all dots. For other invisibility options any DOT is a direct counter.

All of these are class non-specific. Zenimax understands invisibility is by default extremely potent in other games, so they introduced many direct counters to keep it in check. I think it is a design philosophy they have made consistent throughout.

UMM it not working it only works if they are right on top of you 3-5 meter if that and they use it after they hit and you cant find them because of the short range.

Grim13 · June 2014

I need to be standing on top of someone even if they're just crouched to see them with magelight. it definitely is not functioning as intended.

Another issue stealth has is in PvP where, even though I've successfully escaped combat via multiple Dark Cloaks, I'll come out of invisibility crouching, be hidden, and have someone mark target me from 50m away!? How is that even possible? Would that be the cheesy tab target exploit?

PS- I should add that none of them had magelight running. Yet, while hidden, I was targeted by multiple enemies from 50m.

Grim13 · June 2014

Yep, just had someone sneak up on me in the direction I was facing while I had magelight running. I'm about as stealthy as they come. Everything has been maximized for that one goal alone... yet someone attacked me from stealth with magelight on and it never even notified me I wasn't hidden.

Toss stealth in PvP onto the heaping pile of broken **** that is ESO.

Zxaxz · June 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

How does magelight work with skills that improve your sneak? There are passives in racials, armor and armor sets that allow you to decrease your detection area I wonder how they conteract magelight.

I'm guessing you had a nightblade see you had on magelight and pop cloak right before getting in the range for you to detect them.

This, is all. Nothing else to see here.

A Player runs around with Magelight; As soon as I see them, I get close, use Shadow and open up on them; They never even know I am coming.

Magelight is not a counter for Nightblades and their Shadow skill, it's so you can see the other 90% of the hidden players out there; And don't get wrecked by everyone in the game.

Grim13 wrote: »

I need to be standing on top of someone even if they're just crouched to see them with magelight. it definitely is not functioning as intended.

Another issue stealth has is in PvP where, even though I've successfully escaped combat via multiple Dark Cloaks, I'll come out of invisibility crouching, be hidden, and have someone mark target me from 50m away!? How is that even possible? Would that be the cheesy tab target exploit?

PS- I should add that none of them had magelight running. Yet, while hidden, I was targeted by multiple enemies from 50m.

Detection Potions; + 26(?) meters detection radius for 10 seconds; They know your near from 40+ meters away. (Also possible additional answer to @kitsinni too)

pong · June 2014

My NB is very good at crafting if ever it fails use invisibility to hide itself from shame but that's only for 2.5 sec, what a sad skill line