Why the classes are imbalance? just read that.

from this topic forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106477/path-of-darkness-sad-face/p1

Evergreen wrote: »
It is the PTS server. They have Sorcerers and Dragon Knights who test and give awesome theorycraft/semantics about Nightblades so that the devs think they did something useful for the NB. Take shades for example which was nerfed not being able to distract an enemy and given a very minor damage increase as compensation. This was advice from a Sorc on the PTS server which the devs highly respect unfortunately. Then there are the apologists. ESO class balancing is making me even appreciate SWTOR now.

The only solution I can think of at this point is just make this a classless game where all skills are open for everyone to choose. All the Dragon Knights, Sorc, and (pretend Nightblades/apologists) will argue this kills variety of course since everyone will choose the superior abilities DKs and Sorc possess.

Evergreen wrote: »
Yeah he mains a sorc and is a really nice guy and has made some great posts around the forums but clearly does not know much about Nightblades.

NordJitsu wrote: »
The Nightblade skills are fixed in 1.1, which is live on the PTS.

I've tested it. I built a nasty Nightblade.

Nothing really needs to be buffed or changed dramatically for them to be viable. Just get things working like they're supposed to and you'll notice a marked power increase.

NordJitsu wrote: »
@Evergreen‌

What does my main class have to do with bug testing?

I've also put in a ridiculous number of hours into this game in every class and feel comfortable with all of them, so I think I can give feedback in many areas.

Evergreen wrote: »
We need Nightblades on the PTS server giving feedback about Nightblades, not a well intentioned sorc.

Also look at this video all the way back in beta where Dragon Knights were shown to be insanely overpowered with all the usual culprits (DK Destro build with Burning Talons, Green Dragon Blood, Standard of Might etc). Don't buy into Dragon Knights from beta who will say the class was nerfed back then (minor token nerfs that had no impact as we can obviously see now). Nightblades were actually severely nerfed in beta for some odd reason just before release which I have not been able to figure out the rationale for yet.
http://youtu.be/9hJ9sUxB_Ss
I guess a bright side to all of this is that the PTS server and forums will be open to all subscribing members soon so hopefully there will be more rational feedback to the devs. Perhaps I am putting too much blame on the old beta and testing community though and not enough on Zenimax making the right choices. Lets just hope some meaningful feedback and resulting changes occur finally once the PTS server/forums opens up to us.

a NordJitsu topic in Public Test Server where he crying about a bolt escape nerf
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107748/bolt-escape-is-useless-and-sorc-survivability

another bolt escape crying from forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107596/bolt-escape-streak

NordJitsu wrote: »
It was a bad change.

Thank god it didn't mean a 50% increase on each cast.

Doesn't really matter though because the ability has already been rendered useless. All you whiney bads got your way.

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

It now halves your magicka regen for 4 secs AND increases the cost if cast again within 4 secs.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Really glad ZOS is keeping their promise about no cool downs. /sarcasm

Sorry for the wall of text guys

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Some interesting suggestions for NB there but does seem to have more in it for the mage or healer types. So how about some mundane weapon Assassin build changes:

I agree that Nightblades still need a little more of a damage bonus since, really, only a few things I mentioned directly increase DPS. However, its probably best to get the stamina weapon abilities to a slightly better place first.

That said, the back-stab concept is a nice idea. If not implemented as you suggested in Executioner, then maybe as a 10% boost to damage when flanking or behind in Assassin's blade and its morphs to make it desirable for the other 75% of the fight.

shad0w18 wrote: »

Make Mark Target and it's morphs undetectable until combat, it seriously throws up a 'Hey you better start blocking because I'm coming for you' warning for the target. =/

I knew I forgot something. Yeah it still helps in a melee where players are distracted, but feels so wrong (or hilarious if you want to just watch them panic for a bit).

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Are you a dev? If not would you like to be?

Please?

Haha, Sadly no, though I might've even enjoyed it. Still, I'd gladly provide the developers and community with my thoughts just for the sake of improving their game.

OkieDokie wrote: »

arobertson.eeb14a_ESO wrote: »

That would hurt, a lot, the only resource for soloing group dungeons we have. It is already not as effective as it was since they reduced rates for generating ultimate with crits.

Please don't mess up this skill, I'm begging you lol

It was mostly an example and maybe the magicka cost is a little high, but I'm sure it's not the intent for any class to be able to solo even level dungeons. Soloing masses is always fun, but I'm more than willing to concede this potential provided no other class is some undisputed dungeon soloer as well.

The idea was to provide a more interesting candidate for Nightblade healer/off-healer/ small group builds besides the usual Grand Healing/Regeneration/Strife/Blessing of Protection/Siphoning Attacks skills without making a coordinated duo/trio of Nightblades all but unbeatable. It could have some interesting synergy with a large Refreshing path and its increased movement speed for a triage type of healer that rewards finesse over constant AoE healing.

Sangeet wrote: »

I wished that were the official patch notes, your ideas sound really good, and in line with the class.

I would like to see an overall change for weapon builds as well, where you could switch your class ability's to use stamina and run /dodge with magica.

I know some people feel using magicka is out of place with the character concept in mind, but swapping resource pools is probably just avoiding the current issues at hand. Maybe, an option to swap or split secondary stamina based mechanics like sprint/dodge/block among magicka as a magicka enchanced feat to free up more useful resources for stamina focused DPS builds is a possibility for the future.

LHJMHalmansb16_ESO wrote: »

arobertson Nice compilation and I agree with most of it except for the idea you have to replace blur!

Greetz styxxey

Yeah, I am not married to the suggestion I offered. It's not exactly anything new (though the silence/magicka cost de-buff still sounds a little interesting), but felt I should offer something in its place. Admittedly, a single target ability or buff would be more in line with the rest of the Assassination skill line.

I don't mean to pick on werewolves since they are probably in worse shape than Nightblades as a skill set with respect to vampires, but maybe a poison based ability as suggested by Kraven. In fact having most of the Assassination abilities do poison damage would be the same sort of detriment to choosing to remain a werewolf that Dragon Knights are towards vampires. So when the wolves finally get their moment to shine we'll be ready for them .

shad0w18 wrote: »

On a side note, ran into a DK spamming block and rolling in a circle for 2 whole mins. Literally 2 mins. Took like 10 of us to kill him and I was blown away by how long he was rolling around for lol.

Either an out and out hacker who no longer cares about the game and wants to be banned or, more silly, someone who ran into a bug and got unlimited stamina and was showing it off. If it was a bug they're in danger of a ban by flaunting it. You have to be careful with that kind of stuff - Zeni tend to ban first and answer questions later (eventually).

OkieDokie wrote: »

arobertson.eeb14a_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, I understand what you are saying. But lets think about it...

First, I know, people are not supposed to run group dungeons solo. The fact is, most of classes can and do (I don't know about templars). A lot of us are solo players. And NB can only do it because of this skill.

You can increase group healing by buffing anything else, you can buff funnel health or other skill for those heal-oriented. However, if you change this skill like you propose, you will damage (greatly) a resource to keep NBs alive. Even in regular pve vr content, when you face 4 or more enemies, this skill combined with volcanic rune is your best option (it works fine even for 3 enemies).

In addition, it is a great group utility already. If it can keep you alive against a large pack solo, it is even better for groups. All your group have to do is keep their distance, heal you now and then, and take targets one by one. The rest of the guys wouldn't be taking much damage anyway, it is not like they need this extra heal. But you do, as you tanking all that.

It would only hurt solo players and tank ability.

Cheers o/

Fair enough. While I'm sure you could make it work based on armor type or something overcomplicated like that, it's true not everything needs to change. I was probably just getting tired of the current healing play-style.

exhuman wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Siphoning Attacks: This ability’s tooltip will no longer says that it restores health. It never restored health, nor was it intended to. This is a tooltip bug. We have a fix for this, and it will go out with a future patch.

Tooltips are the least of our worries

Again with the tooltip / ui glich excuses. That makes it hard to then really know what the abilities are really suppose to do, and when you invest point and time to play in it and found out that it was not maybe a free respect really should be the only reward / payback.

It's pretty obvious that heavy armour should take a penalty for speed and stealth to most......

Im sorry I just don't get it . People who mean well keep posting ideas on how to improve Nightblades . The GAME is flawed it has to be fixed first I posted on it shortly after release . When ALL melee is mostly useless at end game content ( Trials ) how can you hope to improve NBs ? You still be using that Staff at Raid time .

Sadly the Devs idea of challenge is spamming AoEs and adds . That makes Melee useless . I tried WoW it was harder ( Not that WoW was hard LOL ) on melee and loved casters more than any other game I had tried at that time . This game is far worse ! EQ2 Brigand , AoC Conq. Rift Bard , Vanguard Bard , SWTOR Marauder , . I raided a lot . I have some clue of what Im posting of . So the game that Advertised something like "Play how you want to play " has forced everyone to use a Staff and Light Armor .

I was thinking of resubing today . I logged in Heavy Armor full passives . Had not been in the game long when two trash mobs kill me . A thrown dagger does 25% health damage . Little while later die again 2 trash mobs , bow ability does 40% health damage . That's with overcharged armor stats with 7 Health Enchants . These were not Frost/Fire/Lighting attacks . These were abilities that either the Armor or the Spell resists should have lowered the damage . If that WAS the lowered damage then it goes from incompetence to the realm of silly . Not resubing .

Right now as a NB I have to run Blue VR5 Food and my crafted VR5 Heal/Sta/Mag potions to survive simple 3 Mob fights while melee . I knew early on that the class was seriously bad but figured it would be fixed shortly , after all there was only 4 classes in the game . Two months later Im still waiting . Instead they have their team members raising the level cap and adding content that the bulk of their players didn't need and giving the exploiters that had maxed out more content . Do you wonder how many people are working on giving you the ability to change your armor color instead of pushing out fixes ?

Here is the questions I think every NB should ask themselves .

Do you think they are going to raise your DPS and Survivability to as high as a Sorc or DK anytime soon ?

Do you think they are going to change game content as in Mobs spamming AoEs and adds to make Melee viable anytime soon ?

Do you want to be forced to play Staff user if they wont change game content ?

I think they will continue to nerf the other classes while giving very small changes in NB that wont help where the real problems are .

I think they wont change game content and force their players to use staff and then nerf staff .

I think . I wont be forced to play a staff user when I do not want to .

Grim13 wrote: »

After spending 3 consecutive evenings of PvP having my NB skills fail in multiple infuriating ways, about 2/3rds of the time, I've unsubbed.

There's a lot to like about this game... when it works. It just isn't working consistently enough to justify paying $15/month for.

The saddest thing about it is, I can see the game ESO has the potential to be... but I now seriously doubt ZOS can pull it off. Adequate fixes are coming far too slowly at such a crucial time.

I'll check on the forums, from time to time, to gauge it's status... and maybe resub. Idk, we'll see.

Yeh third month payment coming due . NBs are like do I really want to pay for another month of this .......

I played last night and enjoyed it. Don't know why it was different but those I snuck up on I killed apart from a vr12 and a blocking dk.

The roadmap Matt Firor posted a couple of days ago (http://elderscrollsonline.com/de/news/post/2014/06/04/die-nachsten-schritte--4-juni) does really look nice. And he mentioned Nightblades. Yes, its another carrot.But hey, these are healthy .Also my "classic archetype" thief (dualwield dagger, 5+2 medium armor/light) is heading to V12.Without Craglorn grinding.Questing in Cyrodiil works quite well.Complete legendary hundings rage set with 2 daggers is ready in my bank. Still hoping "arche type" thiefs get a bit love somewhen. Carrot,anyone?

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

Why the classes are imbalance? just read that.

from this topic forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/106477/path-of-darkness-sad-face/p1

Evergreen wrote: »
It is the PTS server. They have Sorcerers and Dragon Knights who test and give awesome theorycraft/semantics about Nightblades so that the devs think they did something useful for the NB. Take shades for example which was nerfed not being able to distract an enemy and given a very minor damage increase as compensation. This was advice from a Sorc on the PTS server which the devs highly respect unfortunately. Then there are the apologists. ESO class balancing is making me even appreciate SWTOR now.

The only solution I can think of at this point is just make this a classless game where all skills are open for everyone to choose. All the Dragon Knights, Sorc, and (pretend Nightblades/apologists) will argue this kills variety of course since everyone will choose the superior abilities DKs and Sorc possess.

Evergreen wrote: »
Yeah he mains a sorc and is a really nice guy and has made some great posts around the forums but clearly does not know much about Nightblades.

NordJitsu wrote: »
The Nightblade skills are fixed in 1.1, which is live on the PTS.

I've tested it. I built a nasty Nightblade.

Nothing really needs to be buffed or changed dramatically for them to be viable. Just get things working like they're supposed to and you'll notice a marked power increase.

NordJitsu wrote: »
@Evergreen‌

What does my main class have to do with bug testing?

I've also put in a ridiculous number of hours into this game in every class and feel comfortable with all of them, so I think I can give feedback in many areas.

Evergreen wrote: »
We need Nightblades on the PTS server giving feedback about Nightblades, not a well intentioned sorc.

Also look at this video all the way back in beta where Dragon Knights were shown to be insanely overpowered with all the usual culprits (DK Destro build with Burning Talons, Green Dragon Blood, Standard of Might etc). Don't buy into Dragon Knights from beta who will say the class was nerfed back then (minor token nerfs that had no impact as we can obviously see now). Nightblades were actually severely nerfed in beta for some odd reason just before release which I have not been able to figure out the rationale for yet.
http://youtu.be/9hJ9sUxB_Ss
I guess a bright side to all of this is that the PTS server and forums will be open to all subscribing members soon so hopefully there will be more rational feedback to the devs. Perhaps I am putting too much blame on the old beta and testing community though and not enough on Zenimax making the right choices. Lets just hope some meaningful feedback and resulting changes occur finally once the PTS server/forums opens up to us.

a NordJitsu topic in Public Test Server where he crying about a bolt escape nerf
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107748/bolt-escape-is-useless-and-sorc-survivability

another bolt escape crying from forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/107596/bolt-escape-streak

NordJitsu wrote: »
It was a bad change.

Thank god it didn't mean a 50% increase on each cast.

Doesn't really matter though because the ability has already been rendered useless. All you whiney bads got your way.

Congratulations on destroying an ability.

It now halves your magicka regen for 4 secs AND increases the cost if cast again within 4 secs.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Really glad ZOS is keeping their promise about no cool downs. /sarcasm

Sorry for the wall of text guys

And this is the sad tragic reality.

Saw this is DAoC also, alot! People playing other classes theorycrafting on how and why THE OTHER classes should be nerfed. They may even sound logical and correct, in theory/nose-focus perspective. There is just one huge flaw with the logic in ESO; we only have 5 + 5 skill slots. It matters NOTHING if 1 situational skill have a big synergy with 2 other skills, you will never use them, or become a one-trick-pony if you do, because they will use up several of their skills slots for something that may work super in one situation.

For example who on earth is gonna slot PoD + 1-2 other skills JUST to be able to move fast?!! Nobody but someone doing nothing but speedchasing people! And if they do that; good for them, but they will have used half a bar of skills just to be able to counter one type of players, and they will be gimped in a lot of other situations.

And this info is what theroycrafters 'forget' to mention, we have 5 skills on each bar, even swaping bars are a problem, so every char has 5 skills + 5 delayed skills (swaping bars = deplay = losing seconds = a problem), it is NOT like having 10 skills. And in these 5 skills you need to pick skills that work in most situations, and make a build that works. Any skills that are not very good, or skills that only synergize with other skills if they are both/all used, will not be sloted. Its does not matter if they are good or not, they will not be used because they take up slots for skills that can be used in almost all situations.

This is why especially in ESO theorycarfters FAIL badly. They theorize and even make logical and good claims on why some skill is powerful, and maybe need nerf, but they forget to factor in that skills need to stand on their own, or they will not be used. And if you are to balance/nerf every skill in the game because they CAN be synergized with some other skill to become very powerful, you will have MANY skills that will never be used, because they are weak, and ONLY work in synergy with another skill.

Zenimax need to realize this, and stop nerfing skills base on they CAN be OPed in certain situations. If a skill can not stand on its own, it will NOT be used by 90% of the players, only one-trick-pony builds and abusers will use them.

And with a game like ESO that is so flexible in using skills, you will never ever be able to balance it all, its impossible. If you want a game that can be balanced, just forget about an open skill tree, you need to lock skills to classes to be able to balance it all.

What Zenimax is doing now is balancing skills based on exploit builds, resulting in many skills will be useless outside of exploit builds, and will not be used by 90% of the players, resulting in gimped classes. If they do not stop thinking like this, it will be GG with a lot of useless skills and never ending gimped classes, and only exploit FOTM builds will work. Normal players will just give up and leave.

Jarnhand wrote: »

And this info is what theroycrafters 'forget' to mention, we have 5 skills on each bar, even swaping bars are a problem, so every char has 5 skills + 5 delayed skills (swaping bars = deplay = losing seconds = a problem), it is NOT like having 10 skills. And in these 5 skills you need to pick skills that work in most situations, and make a build that works.

Whole post - very excellently put.

Valije wrote: »

About the "theorycarfters" and how you don't need to theorize at all.

Enter a public group dungeon. Wait. Count the DK or Sorc that enter that dungeon and start to solo it.

Then count the number of NB that do the same.

Theorize...

I'm as much of a NB supporter as the next guy, but I don't think this is a very good measuring stick. All of those good DK/Sorc grinding specs you see are LA/Staff, which NB can be successful with on the public dungeon scale as well.

Maverick827 wrote: »

All of those good DK/Sorc grinding specs you see are LA/Staff, which NB can be successful with on the public dungeon scale as well.

Don't you need AOE skills to successfully solo in public dungeons?

Well I'm done with my NB. This is total crap, he's useless in vet zones now and I refuse to use a staff and change my whole build cause some idiots designed vet levels to be insane enough to make people quit. And yes I will quit if I can't play the way I want, and because I'm being forced to change my whole build with each encounter I come to.

Trying to fight the Blood Omen in a dream sequence... wtf were you people thinking? Did you try any of this content on a NB? I had 5 wisps spawn on me while the main boss attacked...

And yea the vet zones are empty... so how can I do the "solo" quests now? lmao no wonder they're empty and people quit!!