Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
DKs get 6th nerfhammer. RIP Non-staff/non-light armor DKs. Dks lack uniqueness that other class has
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monkeymystic✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Out of those 16, how many were 1hand and shield tank builds?
Some people don't get it, do they?- DK caster DPS, especially with certain set/skill combos, was obv OP.
- DK Stamina build tank hasn't been OP since bash nerf.
Changes to 1 affect 2 and 2 is becoming less and less viable. It's not far off Templar tank builds, who are also suffering.
Yep they are nerfing 1 special build consisting of 7/7 light armor, destro/resto, magicka furnace set or other OP dropped set that 10% of the dks use, while the other 90% has to suffer and get nerfhammered into death with their normal build which isn't op like the destro/resto one.Edited by monkeymystic on June 5, 2014 11:16AM3 -
anakaki✭✭✭Out of those 16, how many were 1hand and shield tank builds?
What does that matter? You can tank any dungeon with staff or whatever. Atleast when I'm healing. We have dk tank with s/s for trials however and an off tank should it be needed with same setup.Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep, you don't get it.
What if I don't want to tank in a dress and destro staff because it is completely absurd to me? Does it seem normal to you, that the best way to tank is in a magicka furnace dress?
If the best way to do a trial is with 10 DPS and 2 Healers then they obviously have got something wrong
Edited by Maulkin on June 5, 2014 11:32AMEU | PC | AD1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭
Then surely your will spare me the hyperbole and answer my politely worded question. Again, how many?
Don't lie...
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anakaki✭✭✭
Then surely your will spare me the hyperbole and answer my politely worded question. Again, how many?
Don't lie...
Then surely your will spare me the hyperbole and answer my politely worded question. Again, how many?
Don't lie...
I'm sorry I dont understand the question? How many dk's that dps with sword and board? None ofcourse, we dont allow spacewaters in trials as we try to make good time.Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.0 -
anakaki✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Yep, you don't get it.
What if I don't want to tank in a dress and destro staff because it is completely absurd to me? Does it seem normal to you, that the best way to tank is in a magicka furnace dress?
If the best way to do a trial is with 10 DPS and 2 Healers then they obviously have got something wrong
I dont get what? That the staff is the best dps outlet? Seems YOU dont get it, ey? Ive never said whats normal or not. Stop fabricating.Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.1 -
Blinks✭✭✭Now now ladies, handbags away...ESO, "play your way", As long as its light armor and staff
v14 DK (Re-rolled to NB, because DK is easy-mode)
v12 Duel Wield Khajiit NightBlade (Re-rolled again to play ranged DPS) Snipe spam
Main v9 Bosmer NB Archer (Can't hit v14 due to ZOS screwing with XP)0 -
anakaki✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Yep, you don't get it.
What if I don't want to tank in a dress and destro staff because it is completely absurd to me? Does it seem normal to you, that the best way to tank is in a magicka furnace dress?
If the best way to do a trial is with 10 DPS and 2 Healers then they obviously have got something wrong
Best way to do trials is 1 tank, 1 healer and 10 dps. The tank however switch between wep sets ofc. Some bosses dont really need to be tanked.Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.0 -
coryevans_3b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Min/Max crowd will always be the people that RUIN mmos. "Errmagrrd if you're not doing the same dps as the top dps that a class can do, GTFO, L2P!!".
So sick of ass-hats like this. They crunch the numbers, add up all the passives and divide it all by d'bag to figure it out. When people like this "control" the game, a mmorpg cannot exist. They want an arcade game with big numbers, not an rpg. I wish the min/max crowd would move on and stop ruining every mmo in existence.
And they cry. Oh how they cry when something is changed by the devs that has to do with their class. Oh and how they over react.
I over react if there's a progress blocking bug. They over react if their beloved class drops some points in dps.
I will never get a dmg counter add on for this game. EVER.0 -
Blinks✭✭✭You seen the NightBlade post, there's 30+ pages of tears there, try that thread lolESO, "play your way", As long as its light armor and staff
v14 DK (Re-rolled to NB, because DK is easy-mode)
v12 Duel Wield Khajiit NightBlade (Re-rolled again to play ranged DPS) Snipe spam
Main v9 Bosmer NB Archer (Can't hit v14 due to ZOS screwing with XP)0 -
SuperJChat✭✭✭I like how Everyone assumes that DK's (A primarily tanking class to begin with) were only viable when using the Standard of Might Ult and a mainly DPS build, Not that DK's can't DPS mind you, but they are infinitely better at Tanking, but oh no DK's are suddenly useless, even though they are still way stronger than all the other classes ;P2 -
anakaki✭✭✭SuperJChat wrote: »I like how Everyone assumes that DK's (A primarily tanking class to begin with) were only viable when using the Standard of Might Ult and a mainly DPS build, Not that DK's can't DPS mind you, but they are infinitely better at Tanking, but oh no DK's are suddenly useless, even though they are still way stronger than all the other classes ;P
This is funny coz it's true.
Death Recap for TemplarsHave you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »Templars do more dps than DK's.1 -
Infraction✭✭✭I haven't played it yet but im gonna come here and complain about it.
Go test it and send in feedback.
PS: And by feedback don't just simply say "this change sucks"0 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭
I'm sorry I dont understand the question? How many dk's that dps with sword and board? None ofcourse, we dont allow spacewaters in trials as we try to make good time.
The bolded, italicized portion brings us right back to my original assertion on the previous page. Every nerf to the class skill lines limits the effectiveness and survivability of 1-hand and shield tanks.
Spacewaters as you say, brings up an interesting point. If tank builds are viewed in this manner by competitive groups - one wonders how bad it's going to get for basically any DragonKnight who is not a resto/destro light armor build.
Zenimax, are you listening? You are killing DragonKnight tanks while not adversely affecting DragonKnight casters with these changes.
Thank you for being honest.
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Blinks✭✭✭DOWN with Sorcs, DOWN with DK casters, DOWN with NB casters, and DOWN with Templar Casters!!! DOWN THE DAMN STAFF!
easymoders
Edited by Blinks on June 5, 2014 12:27PMESO, "play your way", As long as its light armor and staff
v14 DK (Re-rolled to NB, because DK is easy-mode)
v12 Duel Wield Khajiit NightBlade (Re-rolled again to play ranged DPS) Snipe spam
Main v9 Bosmer NB Archer (Can't hit v14 due to ZOS screwing with XP)0 -
TwoClips✭✭What about playing my class how I want? Isnt that what ESO/Zenimax promised?
I want to play my tank that uses heavy armor, sword and shield.
I want to play my tank only in PVE, questing with my friends and guildies.
Surprise!! - You cant do this anymore because you either have to:
- Constantly change YOUR gameplay due to class abilities becoming useless; all due to whining PVPers.
- Change your tank to match a specific mold that goes totally against your build. Yes you can play your class how you want but if you want to progress you will STRICTLY FOLLOW our build.
- Stop progressing in the Veteran zone areas because you can no longer survive.
So if I got this straight ESO/Zenimax has set the rules against PVE from the start so you will fail. They placed the iconic carrot in front of your face that you can never reach.
OH WAIT! But if you PVP then we will support you. Sounds pretty legit.3 -
hk11✭✭✭✭The only thing this game needs is the ability to play a melee character that is a strong as a magikca class.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Yep, you don't get it.
What if I don't want to tank in a dress and destro staff because it is completely absurd to me? Does it seem normal to you, that the best way to tank is in a magicka furnace dress?
If the best way to do a trial is with 10 DPS and 2 Healers then they obviously have got something wrong
I dont get what? That the staff is the best dps outlet? Seems YOU dont get it, ey? Ive never said whats normal or not. Stop fabricating.
You still don't get it, so let me spell it out for you....
DK caster DPS is a better DPS than a DK stamina tank...that's normal.
DK Stamina Tank is a worse tank than a DPS caster, on top of (of course) being a worse DPS. A crit-build DK caster with magicka furnace can both:
a) absorb & self-heal more dmg
b) do more dps
And I ask you, is that normal? I'm merely asking you if you think it is, I never put words in your mouth.Edited by Maulkin on June 5, 2014 12:42PMEU | PC | AD4 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SuperJChat wrote: »I like how Everyone assumes that DK's (A primarily tanking class to begin with) were only viable when using the Standard of Might Ult and a mainly DPS build, Not that DK's can't DPS mind you, but they are infinitely better at Tanking, but oh no DK's are suddenly useless, even though they are still way stronger than all the other classes ;P
I'm sorry, but if you think DKs were infinitely better at tanking than DPSing you have been playing a different game to the rest of us.
All top trial times use DK caster DPS builds and no tanks whatsoever. But thanks for your contribution from the land of fantasy. How is it out there btw?
And we never said DKs as a class are becoming useless. We are saying the DK stamina build tank is becoming more and more useless. 99% of DKs are DPS despite their class being primarily intended for tanking.Edited by Maulkin on June 5, 2014 12:48PMEU | PC | AD1 -
SuperJChat✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »SuperJChat wrote: »I like how Everyone assumes that DK's (A primarily tanking class to begin with) were only viable when using the Standard of Might Ult and a mainly DPS build, Not that DK's can't DPS mind you, but they are infinitely better at Tanking, but oh no DK's are suddenly useless, even though they are still way stronger than all the other classes ;P
I'm sorry, but if you think DKs were infinitely better at tanking than DPSing you have been playing a different game to the rest of us.
All top trial times use DK caster DPS builds and no tanks whatsoever. But thanks for your contribution from the land of fantasy. How is it out there btw?
And we never said DKs as a class are becoming useless. We are saying the DK stamina build tank is becoming more and more useless. 99% of DKs are DPS despite their class being primarily intended for tanking.
You missed the intention of my post, its not that DK's should be tanks, and everyone should tank as a DK. However Almost everyone uses DK for DPS, using the Standard of Might, Light armor, Destro staff, and such.
But for some reason when Standard gets Nerfed just a little bit everyone Yells to Re-roll as a Sorc. It's like Tanking is a No-No or something, like Everyone has to be DPS 100% or they just aren't any good
*Edit* Oh right I forgot, Leaderboards Determine how you should play and not whether you enjoy it or not. Sorry forgot the title was Trials Leaderboards Online. Because obviously everyone who does trials is good at PvP and Vice-Versa.
/Sarcasm
Sorry that you are one of those people who have the mindset of "there is only one way to play" and if you aren't 100% built like the guys on the leaderboards you just shouldn't playEdited by SuperJChat on June 5, 2014 12:57PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SuperJChat wrote: »You missed the intention of my post, its not that DK's should be tanks, and everyone should tank as a DK. However Almost everyone uses DK for DPS, using the Standard of Might, Light armor, Destro staff, and such.
You missed the intention of my post too. DKs should be whatever they want to be. They can't be whatever they want to be, because being a DK tank is becoming less and less viable. As you said, almost everyone is DK DPS but not because they wanted to, or set out to be one, but because that's the only way to be a) competitive and b) complete the difficult VR content. I feel the changes will re-inforce this trend, not revert it.SuperJChat wrote: »But for some reason when Standard gets Nerfed just a little bit everyone Yells to Re-roll as a Sorc. It's like Tanking is a No-No or something, like Everyone has to be DPS 100% or they just aren't any good
Have you tanked VR content? Cause tanking, if not a no-no, is definitely pretty darned hard and it's about to become a whole lot harder. It's not just about the Standard. I used Magma Armor and Igneous Shield which both got nerfed despite noone complaining about them. And of course the Talons...again.SuperJChat wrote: »*Edit* Oh right I forgot, Leaderboards Determine how you should play and not whether you enjoy it or not. Sorry forgot the title was Trials Leaderboards Online. Because obviously everyone who does trials is good at PvP and Vice-Versa.
/Sarcasm
Yes, you forgot. You forgot that leader boards determine how others expect you to play and if you don't, you're out. Is it a surprise that not being able to get into Trials teams because they only want DK DPSes trying to emulate the top times, is impacting my enjoyment?SuperJChat wrote: »Sorry that you are one of those people who have the mindset of "there is only one way to play" and if you aren't 100% built like the guys on the leaderboards you just shouldn't play
Sorry you're one of these people that don't understand that class and build dynamics, impact the desirability of your character.But I guess, all these zone chat adverts that went "Looking for Non-NB DPS for trials" are fine too, they should just enjoy the game as they want to play, just alone of course.
EU | PC | AD1 -
Fleymark✭✭✭✭✭People have been so busy talking about how "broken" Templars and Nightblades are it probably hasn't occurred to a lot of people that despite needing tweeks and some fixes (like nb passives not working), those classes are where they should be mostly and the others are viewed as OP by the devs. And it's going to be a tuning down of 2 classes rather than tuning 2 up.
I take no joy in pointing this out, but it's consistent with what they've done so far.0 -
Head.hunter✭✭✭Head.hunter wrote: »Head.hunter wrote: »A dk killed me the other day, magicka based. Dk's are awesome, where are they? I'm seeing less and less.
Nice troll. They are everywhere.
Guild currently 16/89, 11 dk's.
The way you said that sounded like you were calling me a troll? Or that trolls are everywhere, or dk's? ok...
Yes, YOU are. As stated, that was the amount of dk's in my guild as I wrote it. Tonight in trials, 6 dk's out of 12.
You've misinterpreted my comment out of your own frustration, and that's exactly my point. Think twice.
I'm just a banana from another dimension.0 -
Orchish✭✭✭✭✭
✭As DK tank survivability is the only thing i have going for me. Once that is gone i am nothing but fodder. There is no way in hell i will re-roll as i found VR content so tedious. Once i am forced to abandon my playstyle of choice in PvP i'm out.1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭As DK tank survivability is the only thing i have going for me. Once that is gone i am nothing but fodder. There is no way in hell i will re-roll as i found VR content so tedious. Once i am forced to abandon my playstyle of choice in PvP i'm out.
Translation: "Once I'm no longer OP in PvP I'm quitting the game >.<"3 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
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And you dont see a problem with staff if people are tanking with it? Zeni has killed tanks offEdited by Ragnar_Lodbrok on June 5, 2014 3:25PM1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
And you dont see a problem with staff if people are tanking with it? Zeni has killed tanks off
and whats the reason for that? to powerfull abiulities enabling DKs to tank with staffs and in light armor...
i do not see (m)any Templar NB tanks in light armor nor do they use staffs...
so your attemp of balance is to nerf items and skillines available to all classes that do not profit from them like DK´s because they enable Dk´s to do awsome stuff while gimping all other classes as they cant do comparable stuff instead of making DK´s unable to do those stuff and let other classes unnerfed?
the problem are the synergies DKs have with those items wich needed to be nerfed (and are beeing nerfed) instead of gimping every one while bringing DKs back in line by nerfing itemization and general skillines ...
Edited by Tankqull on June 5, 2014 4:44PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Ragnar_Lodbrok✭✭✭✭✭
✭tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
And you dont see a problem with staff if people are tanking with it? Zeni has killed tanks off
and whats the reason for that? to powerfull abiulities enabling DKs to tank with staffs and in light armor...
i do not see (m)any Templar NB tanks in light armor nor do they use staffs...
so your attemp of balance is to nerf items and skillines available to all classes that do not profit from them like DK´s because they enable Dk´s to do awsome stuff while gimping all other classes as they cant do comparable stuff instead of making DK´s unable to do those stuff and let other classes unnerfed?
the problem are the synergies DKs have with those items wich needed to be nerfed (and are beeing nerfed) instead of gimping every one while bringing DKs back in line by nerfing itemization and general skillines ...
Dont lie, they havent nerfed one light armor or staff ability, yet nerfed class skills for dks into the dirt2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »
And you dont see a problem with staff if people are tanking with it? Zeni has killed tanks off
and whats the reason for that? to powerfull abiulities enabling DKs to tank with staffs and in light armor...
i do not see (m)any Templar NB tanks in light armor nor do they use staffs...
so your attemp of balance is to nerf items and skillines available to all classes that do not profit from them like DK´s because they enable Dk´s to do awsome stuff while gimping all other classes as they cant do comparable stuff instead of making DK´s unable to do those stuff and let other classes unnerfed?
the problem are the synergies DKs have with those items wich needed to be nerfed (and are beeing nerfed) instead of gimping every one while bringing DKs back in line by nerfing itemization and general skillines ...
First off there's no such thing as a light armour tank. That's like saying a tall dwarf or a promiscuous virgin.
Secondly, thread (with video) of NB in light armour and staff soloing Craglorn bosses:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/105520/vr-6-nightblade-solo-craglorn-bosses-video-without-invisible-stays-full-health
No, you're absolutely right. It's the class that's the problem, not the light armour + staff combo. And I'm a unicornEdited by Maulkin on June 5, 2014 4:53PMEU | PC | AD1