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DKs get 6th nerfhammer. RIP Non-staff/non-light armor DKs. Dks lack uniqueness that other class has

  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Good, they needed the nerf. I'm sorry, but just powering through everything and ignoring combat cues b/c you are just that powerful is a sign they need nerfing. The banner is still hitting for a ton more than other ultimates (still seeing the same results in PvP). The only wrong move they have made is the way they nerfed Talons, it should have been done differently (still seeing it spammed relentlessly in PvP). Still seeing groups looking for DKs in PvE and PvP after nerf (knowledgeable players as well). The class hasn't been over nerfed yet.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • monkeymystic
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    xaraan wrote: »
    Good, they needed the nerf. I'm sorry, but just powering through everything and ignoring combat cues b/c you are just that powerful is a sign they need nerfing. The banner is still hitting for a ton more than other ultimates (still seeing the same results in PvP). The only wrong move they have made is the way they nerfed Talons, it should have been done differently (still seeing it spammed relentlessly in PvP). Still seeing groups looking for DKs in PvE and PvP after nerf (knowledgeable players as well). The class hasn't been over nerfed yet.

    1.2 patch isn't live yet...
    The talon nerf and other 1.2 dk nerfs will just cripple them more as it hits live.

    Sorcerors are king in pvp atm, and they are getting stronger in 1.2 with summons being viable, along with many other buffs. (you dont need to spam escape bolt multiple times to do well as a sorc, escape bolt change only affects bad players)
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Well, first off... good. They needed additional nerfing if those powers are still overpowering everyone else. That means they aren't equal.

    Though I do worry about Sorcs, the summons look like they are getting a bit OP. Glad to see the bolt escape changes, but you're right that they may take the top spot in PvP as the OP class. We'll see.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • METALPUNKS
    METALPUNKS
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    What's funny is way way back during an early beta and beyond I have said DK's are going to be very OP for a little while then the nerfs will come. Everyone told me that no way DK would be nerfed.
  • SinisterJoint
    SinisterJoint
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    Nuitar wrote: »
    Oh well, instead of 2k DPS (if you weren't hitting 2k single target you were doing something wrong), you'll sit at 1400, *just* above a top tier sorc and about 50% higher than a NB will ever hit.

    /violin

    wait what? top tier sorcs doing "just" below 1400 single target dps.

    Sorry, calling BS on that.
  • Phantorang
    Phantorang
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    And DKs are boosted even further in 1.2 test,

    ridiculous!

    I really hope testing will change this to a real overall nerf to the DKs.

    For Sorc the Bolt Escape wasnt nerfed even nearly as much as it should.
    Edited by Phantorang on June 4, 2014 1:17AM
    Fimbulwinter Recruiting true Vikings | Campaigns score | EU PC
  • Bayezid
    Bayezid
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    Phantorang wrote: »
    Bayezid wrote: »
    As a DK, i rarely wear heavy armor now coz i am more effective with light armor. I would love to see them nerf light armor (which will have the undesired effect of nerfing Templars and Sorcerors who rely on light armor)

    QQ, you got nerfed a little bit, not enough by far, and now you want revenge?

    its not enough they already nerfed ultimate? You need them to nerf Templar/NB even more, thats the way you want to cope with this....

    Makes me sick.

    I never said that i wanted revenge for nerfing DK ult. All i said was that i wanted to see light armor nerfed because it's much more effective then Heavy armor in Tanking!

    But i also kept in mind that nerfing light armor would have the undesired effect of nerfing the Templar and Sorceror classes as they are reliant on it.

    Read my previous post properly, what i was trying to say in my previous post is that,it is Light Armor that needs to be nerfed as it's just so OP over Heavy and medium armor. Please stop accusing me of wanting revenge.

    The Nerf on DK is not even a big deal after playing with it today. It just reduced how much dmg i do and take while the standard is on. The amount of fire damage the standard does is still the same. Thats what the standard is used for mainly. Standard is still a very effective ULT.

    Besides,why should they reduce the fire damage of the DK Standard AoE? Why don't people *** learn how to move out of the DAMN AoE while in pvp!?

    Edited by Bayezid on June 4, 2014 1:53AM
  • Luvsfuzzybunnies
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    I already see people shouting for tanks and tanks saying too bad weve been nerfed too much in zone now, as a tank I agree, weve been destroyed as a viable style.

    Yes it is no longer any fun. it was already shoddy when geared out and you could light armor resto destro your way through the content with out any tradtitional mitigation type play style.

    Well really your tanking abilities have not been nerfed at all what you are complaining about is that you cant kill the mobs while tanking them by yourself. This in itself is an entirely different issue. If you want to tank don't expect to put out the highest dps as well as that is not what a tank does.... If you cannot see this I don't know how to help you understand.
    Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
    Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign
  • Luvsfuzzybunnies
    Luvsfuzzybunnies
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    bg22 wrote: »
    How is nerfing your dps effecting your tanking capabilities.

    It's obvious you're bi-curious. Which is ok...

    But in the end, you have to choose one.

    We'll support you either way.

    One, talons dps was garbage, it was used for CC. But since it doesnt work for *** since 1.1.2, why not nerf it more? Couple that with blocking/1h &S abilities being nerfed to douing less damage than a resto staff user, why dont you tell me why we are pissed?

    Resto staff and sword shield abilities should be on par with each other damage wise since one is a healing item and the other is for tanking. Neither of those two roles are for dps while they are mutually exclusive things if you wanted to dps then pick dps specific skills and abilities not tanking/healing just saying. You fail to see that tanks are damage shields/health sinks not ZOMGWTFBBQ I pwned you dps. Once you start to understand that these fixes will start to make sense to you or at least they should.
    Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
    Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign
  • Luvsfuzzybunnies
    Luvsfuzzybunnies
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    And DKs get nerfed again in 1.2. Seriously why dont they just remove DK's and tanks from the game, then everyone can enjoy elder sorcerers online.

    Because DKs are still OP when compared to templars , be glad you did not make that class choice , otherwise you would have left on vet1.

    Um templars do more dmage than dk tanks. Resto staff users do more dps than DK tanks. Lets just nerf their dps and tank skills more that'll show DK's!

    Might not have occured to you that they run a resto staff for the mana regen that oddly enough they dont have a class ability to bolster(as every other class does). Their bar most likely filled with dps abilities when they out dps you as a DK tank(notice you said DK tank not DK dps) which should at best do laughable dps at the exchange of the highest survivability. As for your dark talons does no damage comment earlier you were joking about that right? It is still one of the best damage tools a DK has I can Dark Talons then Flame wall and walk from groups of mobs while seeing exp ticks, but you're right its garbage. Perhaps you would fare better on the Kero Kero Keropi island in Hello Kitty Island Adventures. I hear all classes are OP there and you really just run around with feathers tickling each other all day. Sounds like your kind of thing right cause you aren't looking for a game suited to all classes playing and being good at their strengths just something you can run around and win constantly.
    Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
    Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign
  • Wargasmo
    Wargasmo
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    OMG WTF you mean my I'll actually have to be not terrible at this dk I'm leveling up to get an invite to trial speed runs? F this. I rolled the chosen class and shouldn't have to maximize my performance by utilizing third party macros and optimizing my gear spec and dps uptime.

    I had my face all oiled up and ready to roll on the keyboard and then this nerf comes.. and now I'll have to roll my face 33% harder to outdps every other class in the game. But that would make keyboard indentations on my forehead so I'd much rather just keep being terrible and hope people wont notice that they don't have to necessarily have to stack my class to the point of ignoring skill level anymore.

    Imma gonna jump off something high now... like the curb in front of my house. Then I'm gonna log back in, die to ground aoe on wispmother and mage a few times and act surprised when the group replaces me with someone who can stay out of the fire.
  • Maulkin
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    I already see people shouting for tanks and tanks saying too bad weve been nerfed too much in zone now, as a tank I agree, weve been destroyed as a viable style.

    Yes it is no longer any fun. it was already shoddy when geared out and you could light armor resto destro your way through the content with out any tradtitional mitigation type play style.

    Well really your tanking abilities have not been nerfed at all what you are complaining about is that you cant kill the mobs while tanking them by yourself. This in itself is an entirely different issue. If you want to tank don't expect to put out the highest dps as well as that is not what a tank does.... If you cannot see this I don't know how to help you understand.

    Oops, I'ma call BS on that.

    1) Magma Armor duration decreased. That was my tanking ultie and who *** ever complained about Magma armor?

    2) Obsidian Shield, instead of doubling the shield on you it'll now make your healing of allies more effective. If you're tanking you're not healing usually. And if you're solo questing, there's no-one to heal. And again, whoever complained about that ability?
    EU | PC | AD
  • Blinks
    Blinks
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    Have a DK and now play NB....Please stop moaning about a nerf when you needed it. I can't even get in trial runs...

    *Throws a box of tissues to every easy-mode DK*
    Edited by Blinks on June 4, 2014 6:38PM
    ESO, "play your way", As long as its light armor and staff

    v14 DK (Re-rolled to NB, because DK is easy-mode)
    v12 Duel Wield Khajiit NightBlade (Re-rolled again to play ranged DPS) Snipe spam

    Main v9 Bosmer NB Archer (Can't hit v14 due to ZOS screwing with XP)
  • Gokmak
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    Nuitar wrote: »
    Oh well, instead of 2k DPS (if you weren't hitting 2k single target you were doing something wrong), you'll sit at 1400, *just* above a top tier sorc and about 50% higher than a NB will ever hit.

    2k dps? 1.4k dps? Seriously?

    You are damn lucky they didn't gimp you down to <200 dps, like they did to my stamina-based Templar. At v3, I can barely kill one trash mob, burns both my stamina and magicka bars down, and have to drink a potion. Can't quest. Can't do anything. Haven't played since Craglorn 1.1.2 came out.

    The good news though, is Star Citizen pre-alpha came out today... gonna go fly my space fighter...

  • Shaun98ca2
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    Shaun98ca2 wrote: »
    Stuff

    I believe they aren't fixing our Magicka Management for different reasons.

    1. The Templar class has strong healing line that "endless magicka" doesn't serve well to as then we would DPS and Heal quite well so the poor Magicka Management keeps us in line with the other classes without being OP.

    OR

    2. Our class is where they want us to be in the game while they bring the rest of the classes in line with Templars...this includes the Magicka Management. Reducing the amount of Magicka gain on all other classes actually serves quite well to the Magicka/Stamina balance.(This is my belief)


    My personal opinion on the balance of Magicka vs Stamina....

    Magicka is meant to be High Damage low sustainment.
    Stamina is meant to be Standard Damage High Sustainment.

    Stamina relies HEAVILY on Light/Heavy Attack for damage and their abilities are there for support and slight DPS burst, this would still be lower than Magicka burst.

    Stamina builds ALSO benefit from the increased survivability that Stamina builds also bring IE Block, Dodge, Stun

    Magicka is meant to run out bringing the DPS of an ALL Magicka user lower than that of a Stamina user.


    Based off the above theory the system is broken. Magicka users DONT run out of Magicka and if they do its not fast enough nor long enough to really matter in the long run thus creating the imbalance we are seeing in the game.

    melee should always have a large burst . its the nature of end game magica can sit at range and stay out of mechanics easily. Melee should have high enough burst to kill adds fast , and be able to mach a ranged magica build sustained DPS.
    Melee DPs should be high risk high yield.
    Currently it is a sub par low producing high risk build. the reasons have to do with Four major factors.
    1). Armor passives in heavy and medium are severly lacking. they soft cap way to easy and do not return the benefits light armor does at all

    2) there are abilities in game that make you armor cap no matter what armor you wear. making it completely viable for you to mitigate and absorb damage as well as a Heavy wearing Tank build. with out any penalty to health or stamina due to the powerful passives in light. you can AP yourself into health soft cap with a couple of gllyphs. yet still retain endless supplies of magica and all the crit bonuses to your class abilities. niether of these scenario's can exist in heavy or medium

    3).Stamina is used for far to many things in game other then just weapon abilities making a resource starved dynamic.Nor does the soft cap or reduction work like magica does nor have weapons that return them in obscene amounts from simple mouse attacks.

    4). Melee abilites are severly underpowered and become restricted by animations.Add in the fact all boss encounters are extremely punishing to melee with one shot mechanics near bosses. as well as knock backs you rarely get a chance to do enough rotations to even make it worth the effort.

    Dk's needed adjustments for sure but not in the utility department. its counter productive to the group mechanics ZOs designed. Tanks were supposed to be Taunting utility that controlled the battlefield . there is very little utility a DK provides now with talons nerf. when Zos throws 12 to 16 trash mobs at you routinely in VR dungeons the limit of radius and potential targets limited to 3 you might as well just take the ability out it sucks ass. its become a VR spam fest on every pull. there is no skill involved its rune and AOE. and some of the VR bosses are not doable for the average joe with the horrible tools we have for these encounters. the damage shields suck , damn near broken for the cost of them if you wear heavy armor. talons i wont even use anymore it wastes a slot. in hale is a joke now . it used to be an Oh crap handle for those situations the healer fell behind. Others exploited it for Ulti building in light armor but to each his own. i never used that chicken *** easy mode build.currently as it stands Zos will need to dumb down the content even further and water down Group mechanics to a window licking drool pace to balance out the massive nerf's they are handing down. Believe me its not gonna stop at DK.

    Im just gonna go out on a limb and believe you don't understand how Stamina builds are supposed to work in this game.

    As for the anybody can soft cap armor in any of the 3 gears...that's working as intended. PLAY AS YOU WANT. Light Armor Tank.

    As it currently stands I believe that Light Armor passives might be too good but they have to continue fixing the classes which they are doing. They are Nerfing NightBlades magicka management into the ground with upcoming patch 1.2

    This will help balance Magicka/Stamina as a Magicka based build is supposed to run out of Magicka. When a Full Magicka user runs out of Magicka then their DPS is supposed to lower than that of a Full Stamina user.

    Stamina user gets Standard damage SUSTAINED PLUS increases survivability through the use of Block, Dodge, Stun. All classes have Magicka based abilities that provides utility to Stamina users that DO NOT scales based on # of points placed in Magicka.
  • Shaun98ca2
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    bg22 wrote: »
    How is nerfing your dps effecting your tanking capabilities.

    It's obvious you're bi-curious. Which is ok...

    But in the end, you have to choose one.

    We'll support you either way.

    One, talons dps was garbage, it was used for CC. But since it doesnt work for *** since 1.1.2, why not nerf it more? Couple that with blocking/1h &S abilities being nerfed to douing less damage than a resto staff user, why dont you tell me why we are pissed?

    Resto staff and sword shield abilities should be on par with each other damage wise since one is a healing item and the other is for tanking. Neither of those two roles are for dps while they are mutually exclusive things if you wanted to dps then pick dps specific skills and abilities not tanking/healing just saying. You fail to see that tanks are damage shields/health sinks not ZOMGWTFBBQ I pwned you dps. Once you start to understand that these fixes will start to make sense to you or at least they should.

    I have been thinking a LOT about restro staff and how its too easy for a Magicka user to grab the Restro staff and keep their Magicka up as the Magicka gain is really meant for a Healer not a DPSer.

    What needs to happen is there is a way to make a Magicka DPSer's DPS drop when using the Restro Staff BUT the Heavy Attack's Healing I would like to see slightly increased but not enough to main heal with but enough that a healer would actually like to use it and see results from it.

    As a healer I see NOTHING truly gained from a Heavy Attack's Heal with the Restro Staff its negligible at best.
  • Lynx7386
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    Boo hoo, try playing a nightblade.
    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • actarus78
    actarus78
    Soul Shriven
    2) Obsidian Shield, instead of doubling the shield on you it'll now make your healing of allies more effective. If you're tanking you're not healing usually. And if you're solo questing, there's no-one to heal. And again, whoever complained about that ability?
    It makes no sense, seriously. What is the purpose to turn a tank skill into a healer skill ?

  • yelloweyedemon
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    And anonther nerf on the way judging by pts patch notes. Now let's see which class all the fotmers will pick as their "main"
  • anakaki
    anakaki
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    And anonther nerf on the way judging by pts patch notes. Now let's see which class all the fotmers will pick as their "main"

    DK?
    Death Recap for Templars
    Have you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?
    Templars do more dps than DK's.
  • Blinks
    Blinks
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    I hope so :)
    ESO, "play your way", As long as its light armor and staff

    v14 DK (Re-rolled to NB, because DK is easy-mode)
    v12 Duel Wield Khajiit NightBlade (Re-rolled again to play ranged DPS) Snipe spam

    Main v9 Bosmer NB Archer (Can't hit v14 due to ZOS screwing with XP)
  • Evandus
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    I already see people shouting for tanks and tanks saying too bad weve been nerfed too much in zone now, as a tank I agree, weve been destroyed as a viable style.

    This is what will continue to happen imo. Many of these changes reduce the effectivenes of the 1h-shield tank. Also the incoming nerfs add another nail to that coffin.

    The willingness of people to play one appears to be dwindiling. Yet the frothing of the mouth and gnashing of the teeth will continue because of the negative attention caster builds get. Every nerf the class gets (many before release), lowers the ability for a melee based tank to function. Thus making them more scarce.

  • Ragnar_Lodbrok
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    Evandus wrote: »
    I already see people shouting for tanks and tanks saying too bad weve been nerfed too much in zone now, as a tank I agree, weve been destroyed as a viable style.

    This is what will continue to happen imo. Many of these changes reduce the effectivenes of the 1h-shield tank. Also the incoming nerfs add another nail to that coffin.

    The willingness of people to play one appears to be dwindiling. Yet the frothing of the mouth and gnashing of the teeth will continue because of the negative attention caster builds get. Every nerf the class gets (many before release), lowers the ability for a melee based tank to function. Thus making them more scarce.
    This guy gets it!
  • Shaun98ca2
    Shaun98ca2
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    actarus78 wrote: »
    2) Obsidian Shield, instead of doubling the shield on you it'll now make your healing of allies more effective. If you're tanking you're not healing usually. And if you're solo questing, there's no-one to heal. And again, whoever complained about that ability?
    It makes no sense, seriously. What is the purpose to turn a tank skill into a healer skill ?

    I always thought this was MEANT to be a Healer Skill.
  • Head.hunter
    Head.hunter
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    anakaki wrote: »
    A dk killed me the other day, magicka based. Dk's are awesome, where are they? I'm seeing less and less.

    Nice troll. They are everywhere.
    Guild currently 16/89, 11 dk's.




    The way you said that sounded like you were calling me a troll? Or that trolls are everywhere, or dk's? ok...

    I'm just a banana from another dimension.
  • anakaki
    anakaki
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    anakaki wrote: »
    A dk killed me the other day, magicka based. Dk's are awesome, where are they? I'm seeing less and less.

    Nice troll. They are everywhere.
    Guild currently 16/89, 11 dk's.




    The way you said that sounded like you were calling me a troll? Or that trolls are everywhere, or dk's? ok...

    Yes, YOU are. As stated, that was the amount of dk's in my guild as I wrote it. Tonight in trials, 6 dk's out of 12.
    Death Recap for Templars
    Have you tried rerolling to a Sorcerer or Dragonknight?
    Templars do more dps than DK's.
  • Evandus
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    Out of those 16, how many were 1hand and shield tank builds?
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Shaun98ca2 wrote: »
    actarus78 wrote: »
    2) Obsidian Shield, instead of doubling the shield on you it'll now make your healing of allies more effective. If you're tanking you're not healing usually. And if you're solo questing, there's no-one to heal. And again, whoever complained about that ability?
    It makes no sense, seriously. What is the purpose to turn a tank skill into a healer skill ?
    I always thought this was MEANT to be a Healer Skill.

    Why? Defensive skill, doesn't mean healer skill. What other healer skills do DKs have? All the DK skills were pointing towards a Melee DPS / Tank class, and before the change it was clearly a tank ability as it allowed you to absorb more damage.

    Have you seen any DKs as dedicated healers, cause I haven't seen a single one. Who's supposed to benefit from this change?

    EU | PC | AD
  • monkeymystic
    monkeymystic
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    They are nerfing everything to the ground because of a caster build consisting of destro/resto and 7/7 light armor, op magicka furnace set, spirit siphon etc.

    Every DK that uses OTHER weapon combos or armor than this suffer from this, and now they will take survivability away as well in the "road ahead".


    RIP to the DK class for all the non-staff and non-light armor users out there. Survivability is the last thing the class has left, and now they will take that away too.
    DKs will be stuck in melee range, lose survivability, have no mobility, have mediocre DPS unless they go destro/resto, have no magicka regen, and at the end of the day be the new the bottom feeder while getting stomped while trying to reach 5 meter range.


    Nice job on destroying a class by nerfing the wrong parts completely when resto/destro and light armor magicka furnace and other OP set bonuses, spirit siphon etc was the biggest issue all along.

    Tunnel vision at it's best...
    Edited by monkeymystic on June 5, 2014 11:10AM
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Evandus wrote: »
    Out of those 16, how many were 1hand and shield tank builds?

    Some people don't get it, do they?
    1. DK caster DPS, especially with certain set/skill combos, was obv OP.
    2. DK Stamina build tank hasn't been OP since bash nerf.

    Changes to 1 affect 2 and 2 is becoming less and less viable. It's not far off Templar tank builds, who are also suffering.
    Edited by Maulkin on June 5, 2014 11:13AM
    EU | PC | AD
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