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How to give some more meaning to veteran leveling? Your thoughts.

ScardyFox
ScardyFox
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So, here I am slowly working my way up the merit levels. I am in no particular rush, nor do I find it participially daunting and certainly not overwhelming. I like a good grind; I come from a background of far more grindy games than this and enjoyed the leveling process along the way. The game I am most found in memory is Final Fantasy 11, before the game was turned to a more easy leveling avenue, due to changing times and an aging game. It would take you months of intense leveling to get your character to max level.

As aforementioned, I enjoyed it a lot. I certainly couldn't do that nowadays (job, kids, house, etc) yet still as easy as the leveling is (by comparison) its still such a drag. So, I took some time to think about it to try and figure out what was missing for me, personally, when leveling my character. I think (again, this is from my perspective) that the problem is there is far too much stick and not enough carrot when leveling through veteran ranks. Let me explain by using 11 as a comparison and something I would like to see implemented here in whatever fashion suited this game.

In 11 when you reached level 75 (the cap back when I was playing) you earned something called "Merit Points" or this games version of veteran points. In ESO, gaining veteran ranks is more or less a token badge of extending the grind and some nebulous strength gain. This is where the too much stick and not enough carrot comes into play. I like a good grind, but what am I doing it for other than being a completionist? I don't even get skill points for crawling through the ranks. What are we doing it for with any weight behind it? Perhaps I am mistaken but I think this is what is upsetting people the most when it comes to leveling through veteran ranks. There should be a reward to it while you're doing it that is unique.

In 11, when you gathered so many points you would earn a merit point. With that merit point you could do one of several dozen things. You could spend it to cut down the timer on skills - since skills are not time based in this game maybe it could cut down ultimate cost? You could raise the number on your HP, mana, strength (power in this game), several character attributes. You could raise the base damage on the weapon of your choice to its own personal cap. You could raise the base defensive bonus on your armor or shield. You could raise the damage on your class skills one at a time. On and on.

Now, I'm not going to bother to make exacts, because overly wordy post are sometimes hard to read but I am sure we could see a translation here. Would you like to buy into certain unique and personal abilities with veteran points? In 11 I believe in was 10,000 exp per point (10k was A LOT back then), would you like to have so many unique points change into a point for you to use? Instead of raising the cap over and over again would you rather be working to upgrade your character into several different personal ways? Would that take some of the bite out of veteran leveling if you felt you were constantly working towards something?

What do you guys think? What other experiences do you have from other games that you'd like to see in some fashion? Obviously you can't copy and paste - but ideas generated by past experience can be translated into new unique ideas. Again, what would you like to see? What do you think would give levity to vetern rank leveling other than just doing it for the sake of doing it?

Share some ideas.

:)
Edited by ScardyFox on May 28, 2014 8:41AM
  • MintyBadger
    MintyBadger
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    I like this, adding anything at this point is a good idea but im not sure they could handle something this robust.
  • ScardyFox
    ScardyFox
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    Haha, I don't know if they could handle it but something needs to be done :)
  • SantieClaws
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    More quests so you don't feel forced into doing every little thing - maybe even some quests that only appear for vet levels - so there is at least a little variety.

    Meaningful kill xp - let people do a little grinding if they want to. Cap it daily if you have to but at least allow it to be there.

    Just a few daily quests here and there - again alternative levelling options.

    The ability to go back and help guildmates and have them do the same for you - then you are not always stuck doing the same stuff and if you do get stuck then you can call for help. Pretty fundamental part of any MMO that the phasing system seems to have totally mucked up.
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  • Pewpie
    Pewpie
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    1. Just give me skill points when i advance a vet rank.
    2. And the possiblity to respec each rank advancement. Maybe give a respec point that can be used instead of the horrible 20k gold it cost to respec...
    3. Also, make the horse level higher? Make it possible to feed your horse 10 times through the vet ranks? (Maybe you can already, i dont know?)
    4. Give us more inventory and bank space for each vet rank (for free).




  • ScardyFox
    ScardyFox
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    Some good ideas, keep'em coming for some constructive dialogue.
  • AngryNord
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    How did DAoC handle "veteran" (end-game) content? Was it all PVP?
  • Memnock
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    I would suggest adding more class oriented content since they insisted on having the game with classes , instead of a classles system .

    Also , while we are at it , make the story continue untill you reack VR 10 , not end at lvl 50/VR1 like it does now.
  • Sallakat
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    Consume enough beer while grinding dem levels and you'll find a smooth flow to it.
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  • leandro.800ub17_ESO
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    You could add veteran rank skills. Same ones but instead of level IV going up a little more
  • anakaki
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    Veteran skill points for a new skill line or additional morphs just for Veterans. That would work for me.
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  • damonpeltob14_ESO
    ScardyFox wrote: »
    Some good ideas, keep'em coming for some constructive dialogue.

    im with you all the way on this one final fantasy 11 should be the role model for all mmos when it comes to progression . if they added the ability to spend a point to get .10 to health stamina or magic id be happy as you said the FF11 system was extensive would love to see a system like that here . half of the problem with most modern games is their focus on pvp it pigeon holes them in to keeping progression flat in my opinion. FF11 had pvp aswell but it was more for fun than anything else, not the sole reason for playing the game by any stretch. i think they should separate the two for balance sake (pve and pvp).
    Memnock wrote: »
    I would suggest adding more class oriented content since they insisted on having the game with classes , instead of a classles system .

    Also , while we are at it , make the story continue untill you reack VR 10 , not end at lvl 50/VR1 like it does now.

    yup good idea it feels like a rush to nowhere now. all that typing made my brain hurt sorry for crappy grammar and punctuation english is my third language after drunken nord and catnip hazed khajit
  • ScardyFox
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    Yeah, 11 had a lot to do between max level and main story. I would love to see BCNMs in this game.
  • MintyBadger
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    ScardyFox wrote: »
    Yeah, 11 had a lot to do between max level and main story. I would love to see BCNMs in this game.

    Thats a very good idea.

  • ScardyFox
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    Well, I guess we will see what happens.
  • ScardyFox
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    Bump.

  • ScardyFox
    ScardyFox
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    Well, seeing as they are adding something akin to rewards for vet leveling I am going to bump this again. Come on guys, add some ideas - there are lots of creative posters here, lets see some of that brilliance shine here.
  • Cepeza
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    They should add a juicy pile of solo VR content to their group VR content updates, too. Like those awesome dark brotherhood quests line in Skyrim.
  • Sakiri
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    It doesn't "mean" anything.

    They're regular levels, just longer, more drawn out, and more frustrating.

    Can't quite call it anything meaningful or prestigious when they're required for any new zones, dungeons, etc that they plan on adding.

    And for the love of Hate, making me strategize trash like a boss fight is annoying as hell.
  • Nasther
    Nasther
    Soul Shriven
    I definitely like the idea of a veteran only skill line.
  • ScardyFox
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    Cepeza wrote: »
    They should add a juicy pile of solo VR content to their group VR content updates, too. Like those awesome dark brotherhood quests line in Skyrim.

    Yes, I would like some more solo content - I'd like a lot more. Not because I am a solo player but its good to be challenged on your on every now and again. Good suggestion.
    Sakiri wrote: »
    It doesn't "mean" anything.

    They're regular levels, just longer, more drawn out, and more frustrating.

    Can't quite call it anything meaningful or prestigious when they're required for any new zones, dungeons, etc that they plan on adding.

    And for the love of Hate, making me strategize trash like a boss fight is annoying as hell.

    Which would be the point of the thread. As aforementioned, in 11, getting merit points was about making your character stronger in diverse ways other than just a meaningless "vet" number.

    Edited by ScardyFox on June 4, 2014 7:35PM
  • Sakiri
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    11 was also an incredibly grindy game that avoided like the plague *because* its grindy.
  • ScardyFox
    ScardyFox
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    11 was also an incredibly grindy game that avoided like the plague *because* its grindy.

    Which again has nothing to do with my point. :)

  • Sakiri
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    ScardyFox wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    11 was also an incredibly grindy game that avoided like the plague *because* its grindy.

    Which again has nothing to do with my point. :)

    Oh I know, I just loathe people bringing up ideas from group mandatory grindy games because you end up turning it into a group mandatory grindy game.

    My limited experience with hroup content in this game already makes me want to avoid it.
  • ScardyFox
    ScardyFox
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    Sakiri wrote: »
    ScardyFox wrote: »
    Sakiri wrote: »
    11 was also an incredibly grindy game that avoided like the plague *because* its grindy.

    Which again has nothing to do with my point. :)

    Oh I know, I just loathe people bringing up ideas from group mandatory grindy games because you end up turning it into a group mandatory grindy game.

    My limited experience with hroup content in this game already makes me want to avoid it.

    Yes, but thats from my perspective and the point of the thread is to add your own, not mirror mine. So, feel free to add what you'd like to see that might make vet leveling more meaningful to you (tolerable, satisfying, suitable - whatever world you thinks best) and bounce some ideas around.

    Or not, whatever you feel is best :)

  • Sakiri
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    Get rid of the idea and use normal levels.

    Theres no reason the difficulty in overland "leveling" content needs to be anything but faceroll.
    Thats all VR is... leveling.

    Challenge belongs in instanced and optional content. End of story. There is no reason anyone, regardless of how good or bad a player they are, shouldnt be able to level cap withoyt thinking.

    Gonna catch a lot of hate for it but Im the only one left in my guild that hasnt left over the dull grindy and overly strategic vr levels or main quest line.
  • Sendarya
    Sendarya
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    I completely agree with the P, and some of the following suggestions are good ones. I've been saying this in the "Vet levels are too hard" threads. I don't think they are too hard, I think they simply don't offer enough reward for their increased difficulty. So the OP nailed the issue, imo.

    There are many ways they could give us more carrot, as it were. More skill points on levels, free respecs on level, special quests outside of the ones that exist inside the regular 1-50 zones.

    I really wish Zenimax would read this and take it to heart, because the truth is, vet leves are hurting the game. WHY they are hurting the game is up for debate, as is how to fix it, but I don't think "make it easier" is the right fix. I think add more reward/something special would do the trick though.
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  • ScardyFox
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    At this point I think something akin to 11's merit system would not only save the game but save YOU - ESO - a hell of a lot of work. Since you can't seem to find the right balance for your classes, in particular Templar which seemingly has been thrown under the bus, 11's buy into system would save headaches all around.

    Albeit it a simple and nebulous example, if you could use vet points (as a templar) to buy into better MP and heal potency - specifically something only a Templar could do - you would finally give it the unique stamp in needs.

    Same thing with NB, my class, or werewolf (one of the last standing). Let me buy into crit rate and potency with specific weapons that only a NB could do. SOMETHING.
  • MintyBadger
    MintyBadger
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    I honestly think the level of depth and involvment af a merit system might be out of their league at this point.
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